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FORKNI-L Digest - 21 Feb 2002 (#2002-53)

Thu, 21 Feb 2002

There are 10 messages totalling 345 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. I give up
  2. C&C (was: Janette or Nat) (4)
  3. Why the Caddy Wins
  4. Janette or Nat? (3)
  5. KtK auction update Thursday noon

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Date:    Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:15:53 -0800
From:    Liz the Lucky <luckyliz@c.......>
Subject: I give up

Okay, I admit it. I'm an idiot and any ideas I have are full of crap and
are wrong just for virtue of me thinking them. I'd ask forgiveness, but
I don't deserve it.

Liz

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Date:    Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:35:42 -0700
From:    Cousin Mary <anteros@j.......>
Subject: C&C (was: Janette or Nat)

Tim wrote:

>> I always found it very intriquing that Nick was *married* to Janette,
>>while he was *cheating* with Natalie in C&C....
 >       They stood everything on its ear for that one.
 >       Janette was a putup house-wife (hardly the self-reliant vampire
 >we are used to woman we are used to).

I've always thought that that episode what Nick -thought- they wanted.
So Nick thought Janette wanted marriage and a small plastic doll to
pretend was a child, and POOF she got one.  He thought Nat wanted to be a
boss and get with the uh, bossiness <eg>  Schanke, dominate.  Etc.

Regardless of what any of the characters actually wanted, C&C was about
what Nick felt guilty about not giving them  (whether they wanted it or
not)


mary
anteros@j.......
http://www.geocities.com/cousin_mary1228/

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:47:59 -0500
From:    Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
Subject: Re: C&C (was: Janette or Nat)

> I've always thought that that episode what Nick -thought- they wanted.
Or, is it the way Nick wants them - tainted by his guilt/discomfort
at wanting them different?

1) Janette as his wife and mother of his children, but their
relationship strained by a lack of money and the stress of a infant
child

2) Natalie in a position where Nick doesn't feel he is taking
advantage of her by being intimate with her?  If anything, she is
taking advantage of him?  Yet, he is cheating on Janette and
perhaps feels coerced into the relationship.

3) Schanke a hard-driving cop who cracks along by the numbers
and doesn't annoy Nick with his off-beat habits, yet so hardcore
that Schanke looks down upon Nick as almost a deadbeat who
isn't pulling his own weight?

        That is an interesting way to look at the episode that I had
never thought of before.

        Thanks for shaking the old mental cabinets (sometimes things
aside the china tumble out :-)  )

                Tim


 Tim Phillips
 timp@d.......

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Date:    Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:19:10 -0500
From:    Portia Eins <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: C&C (was: Janette or Nat)

Definitely, interesting things do tumble out.  Tim, this was a good summation!
You put in to words what my poor brain was trying to fumble out.  I was
thinking, based on the previous post, that perhaps the "vision" or whatever
showed a mixture of both desires and fears, but I couldn't get a good hold on
the idea.  Well done!

Portia

Forever Knight TV show <FORKNI-L@l.......> wrote:
1) Janette as <snip) etc.

        Thanks for shaking the old mental cabinets (sometimes things
aside the china tumble out :-)  )

                Tim

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:29:49 -0800
From:    Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
Subject: Re: C&C (was: Janette or Nat)

--- Cousin Mary <anteros@j.......> wrote:
> I've always thought that that episode what Nick
> -thought- they wanted.

Or perhaps there is no unity of connotation. Perhaps
that is the way he sees them in his subconscious mind,
his feelings about their inner persons and/or how *he*
wanted them to be. He was married to Janette and she
left him. Perhaps he still sees himself as a husband
who has failed her. Maybe he sees his quest for
mortality and his close relationship with Nat due to
it, a form of cheating towards Janette. Or the fact
that he takes orders from Natalie during their
experiments an indication of her dominance over him.
As for Schanke, I'd say his behavior signified Nick's
worst nightmare. And Cohen, well I guess that is one
fantasy subordinate males might have about their
female bosses.


=====
Countess -- Twilight Knightie,IB,DT,UF,Cotk

"Trudging through enternity, hauling my homemade horrors, do you think THAT was
my dream when I was young and evil?"

                           -Mommy Fortuna, The last Unicorn

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:39:15 -0700
From:    Molly Schneider <thestormborn@m.......>
Subject: Re: Why the Caddy Wins

Sunny asked:
>Molly!!!!!!!!! Why such a sexist response? :(

Because I'm not a feminist?  Because I have an exceptionally strong animus?
Because I'm perfectly capable of putting the toilet seat down myself?
Because I've seen enough of how many women behave in relationships to wonder
why men date them?

>>I hope it was meant to be just a joke and that the underlying implications
>>simply escaped you.<<

All humor has some truth in it, or it wouldn't be humor, methinks.  However,
I meant no offense to anyone's sensibilities, and if I did offend, I
apologize.

Molly/StormBorn
"It isn't fair!"  "You say that so often.  I wonder what your basis for
comparison is."  Sarah and Jareth, Labyrinth
stormborne@e....... -or- thestormborn@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:28:09 -0700
From:    Molly Schneider <thestormborn@m.......>
Subject: Re: Janette or Nat?

Liz gave a good summary of the Nick-Nat dynamic (IMHO <g>) and said:
>>One thing to remember, is that Nick has eight hundred years of experience
>>in seducing women. So he'd *know* Nat was attracted to him.<<

And he hasn't been all that pure and innocent in doing it.

>>And, like he said at the Azure, she knows what he is, and is helping him
>>regain mortality. He'd be a fool if he didn't use everything he could to
>>keep her neatly pinned down where she is. And fools don't live eight
>>hundred years.<<

I don't think he's *consciously* that manipulative. I see him as a rather
Hamlet-like figure, chronically indecisive.  Nat appeals to him as he would
like to be, while Janette appeals to him as he is.  Unconsciously, though, I
think he's quite capable of using people for his own ends.

>Proud Aunt of an Olympic Torch Bearer

Tres cool!

Molly/StormBorn
"It isn't fair!"  "You say that so often.  I wonder what your basis for
comparison is."  Sarah and Jareth, Labyrinth
stormborne@e....... -or- thestormborn@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:13:40 EST
From:    Knightwave@a.......
Subject: KtK auction update Thursday noon

Looks like we've hit the usual mid-auction lull.  Give the items another look
over and see if there's anything you'd like.  Susan has told us we're going
to need $1700 for the least expensive ad, so we have a bit to go.  The
auction is planned to end midnight, Sunday, 24th, 2002.

If you have any questions of problems, let me know.  If you see any errors in
your bidding, please do say something.  With so many items, I can't see
getting through this auction without at least one mistake.  <g>  The web site
for the auction is   <A HREF="http://www.ktk.op.nu/">Kickstart the Knight </A>

 (   http://www.ktk.op.nu/   )  Most of the pictures are now up.  *thanks,
Becky!!*

Note: items #26, #27, #28, & #29 are a series of zines.  If the same person
bids high on all four, Susan will include a ktk t-shirt as a bonus.

KtK auction update for Thursday, Feb 21, 2002

  #1   $00.00                     white Black Harbour t-shirt (L)
  #2   $00.00                     white Black Harbour t-shirt (L)
  #3   $00.00                     Yellow T-shirt of Janette  (L)
  #4   $00.00                     white T-shirt Spike of BtVS (M)
N #5   $15.00   Nancy             white T-shirt Spike of BtVS (M)
  #6   $00.00                     white T-shirt of Vachon  (XL)
  #7   $00.00                     Black Harbour sweatshirt (M)
  #8   $00.00                     Orange t-shirt of Schanke  (XL)
  #9   $13.57   Vamps             Blue T-shirt of LaCroix (XL)
  #10  $15.00   Sara              Tan T-shirt LaCroix (XL)
  #11  $16.57   Vamps             Tan sweatshirt  Vachon (XL)
  #12  $27.00   Sara              gray Polo shirt hand-stitched  (XL)
  #13  $17.57   Vamps             Black t-shirt  hand-stitched  (XL)
  #14  $17.57   Vamps             T-shirt  hand-stitched  (XL)
  #15  $17.57   Vamps             Sweatshirt  hand-stitched
N #16  $20.00   Dianne            Black baseball cap, autograph pic
N #17  $25.00   Dianne            Baseball cap autograph by Ger
  #18  $100.00  NdB               Raven matchbook
  #19  $10.00   Stephanie         Autograph pic of Natsuko Ohama
  #20  $20.00   Jules             FK License Plate
  #21  $12.28   KnightRanger      FK zine  Endless Love  vol. 1
  #22  $05.00   Diane             FK zine  Sins of the Father  94 pgs
  #23  $05.00   Diane             FK novella  Training Mission  50 pgs
  #24  $20.00   Phylis            FK zine A Taste of Forever  324 pgs
  #25  $12.28   KnightRanger      FK zine  Let There Be Light
  #26  $05.00   Diane             FK zine  En Famille
  #27  $05.00   Diane             FK zine  Cauchemer
  #28  $05.00   Diane             FK zine  Lagniappe
  #29  $05.00   Diane             FK zine  Samskar
  #30  $10.00   Rose              Nick original artwork
  #31  $12.28   KnightRanger      Variety Ad autographed by Ger
N #32  $12.28   KnightRanger      HR ad autographed by Ger
  #33  $00.00                     Nigel playbill "Art"
N #34  $10.00   Annette           Nigel playbill "Scrooge"
  #35  $00.00                     Nigel playbill "Closer"
N #36  $25.00   Barbara           FK mousepad - rubber mouse
  #37  $00.00                     b/w Tracy Vetter mini poster
  #38  $00.00                     Psi Factor book
N #39  $21.00   Edwina            Set of 12 Canadian 2000 coins
  #40  $12.28   KnightRanger      feature on Ger's "My Fair Lady
  #41  $11.57   Vamps             Hearts of Darkness script
N #42  $20.00   Barbara           Curiouser & Curiouser script
  #43  $00.00                     Video of early Ger in IKWE
N #44  $10.00   Annette           Nigel's "Hamlet" poster autographed
N #45  $10.00   Annette           Lg Rubber Raven, pic of Deborah
  #46  $05.00   MGB               Color print of "The Knightmare"
  #47  $40.00   MGB               Plum sweatshirt hand-stitched  Raven
N #48  $25.00   Barbara           Navy T-shirt hand-stitched  Raven
  #49  $25.00   Jackie            Blue sweatshirt hand-stitched FK logo

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:48:48 -0700
From:    Molly Schneider <thestormborn@m.......>
Subject: Re: Janette or Nat?

Portia wrote:
>>I wonder if it's not only Nick that's "touchy-feely" <snip> I wonder this
>>because their senses become so much more acute, and being close and
>>touching would more freely allow one to indulge the sense of smell and
>>touch.<<

That's an excellent point, and it may account for the way the various
vampires seem to hover closer to others than most mortals would.  It's canon
that their senses of hearing, sight and smell are enhanced, so it only
stands to reason that their sense of touch would be enhanced also.

Molly/StormBorn
"It isn't fair!"  "You say that so often.  I wonder what your basis for
comparison is."  Sarah and Jareth, Labyrinth
stormborne@e....... -or- thestormborn@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Feb 2002 05:46:21 +0800
From:    Elliza Rahim <relliza@h.......>
Subject: Re: Janette or Nat?

Molly wrote:
>That's an excellent point, and it may account for the way the various
>vampires seem to hover closer to others than most mortals would.<snip>

Gives whole new meaning to "playing with your food".

Ell

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 21 Feb 2002 (#2002-53)
***********************************************


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