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Digest - 8 Mar 2000 to 9 Mar 2000 (#2000-69)

Thu, 9 Mar 2000

There are 21 messages totalling 698 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Your Daily Vote & FK's Postion (6)
  2. FK Vidcap Collection by Episode!
  3. Equal Opportunity Story Posts
  4. Natalie's employer
  5. CERK info (5)
  6. Your Daily Vote & FK's Position
  7. Your Daily Vote and FK's *increased* Position
  8. KC's 1999 Fiction
  9. Subject: Re: Forever Knight HAS Dropped Officially!
 10. Bonds Between NewbornVampire & 1 or  2 Sires (2)
 11. Fwd: Your Daily Vote & FK's Postion

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:38:05 EST
From:    Ceily Trog <Fk4ever1228@a.......>
Subject: Re: Your Daily Vote & FK's Postion

Scurrying out from under my rock to quickly say:

The only thing that can be said for certain is that if we don't vote, then we
will never know if it will have helped our cause.  However, my feeling is
that should there be the slightest chance that voting will help, I for one
will vote until my fingers fall off.

Whose to say that anything we do will help?  All we be certain of is that
voting and writing cannot hurt our cause and IMHO, it is worth trying!

OK, back to lurkdom for me.

fk4ever
an eternal optimist  :-)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:39:51 -0800
From:    "Nancy A. Taylor" <nat1228@h.......>
Subject: FK Vidcap Collection by Episode!

My apologies for those who receive this more than once. Please feel
free to pass it along to any other lists or newsgroups you think might
be interested.

It's done! What is probably the most comprehensive collection of
Forever Knight video captures by episode anywhere on the Internet is
finally complete. Thanks to the help of Linda Sriro and Mel Moser, who
loaned me their vidcap collections for the project, I finally have
pictures for every episode of all three seasons. Most average 30 to 100
pictures each, while several popular episodes have as many as 150.
There are literally thousands of new pictures for your enjoyment
--over 120 megabytes. You can view the Episode Archives at:

http://members.xoom.com/nancyt1228/archives.htm

I plan to slowly upgrade picture quality and quantity on some
episodes, particularly first season, but the bulk of the work is done.
I will now resume taking special requests for video captures. HOWEVER,
I do ask that you check the episode archives first, as what you're
looking for may already be there.

Enjoy!

Nancy Taylor   --   nat1228@h.......
Knightie/N&NPack/UF/GWDFC
http://members.home.net/nat1228/fk.htm
"The first hundred years are the hardest."
    --Wilson Mizner

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:49:37 EST
From:    SField8067@a.......
Subject: Re: Your Daily Vote & FK's Postion

In regards to the Global World Charts, i do want to say that i send them to
TPTB along with the signed petiton to help the cause in bringing the show
back to us all,so please if you are online take the few minutes a day to sign
as many times as you are allowed,everything we do is important, now more than
before! that includes snail mail,e-mail to the Sci-Fi channel,telephone
calls,the works!
all the best,
susan ellen field
KtK

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:34:46 -0700
From:    KYER <KYER@p.......>
Subject: Equal Opportunity Story Posts

(Kyer takes a break from trying to figure out her computer's guts---"Where's
Natalie?  I need an autopsy of this *undead* thing!---in order to address a
pet peeve.)

(Said in nice, reasonable, don't-wanna-upset-anyone, step-on-toes, or point
fingers tones:)

FKFIC Gripe Alert! (again, pointed at no writer in particular---been
grumbling privately about this for a **long** time!)
Writers---please!---I know a lot of you enjoy doing steamy-type stuff and in
no way am I saying you should stop what you enjoy.  *But*, if your story is
not *completely* of 'Adult' orientation, make a General Audience version of
the Adult posts as well?
As a 30-something, I find it aggravating to have to stop reading a good
story because I have to wait for an adult part to be sent to me---or wait
for JADFE to post it.  I can only imagine how frustrating it would be for
someone under age to read (say) 8 parts, only to find that part 9 of 10 is
unavailable to them.  Worse!  Many of these 'Adult only' posts *also* carry
information that is important to the plot.  Its like trying to read a novel
with some pages torn out.

Huff & Puffed, (yet oddly enough wants to laugh as well),

Kyer
kyer@p.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:58:42 -0500
From:    Marg Yamanaka <mytoronto@h.......>
Subject: Re: Natalie's employer

DeanieBTVS@a....... wrote:
 However, I was watching "Spin Doctor" today, and the reporters
> referred to Nat as the "county coroner."  <sigh> Is that just an Americanism
> creeping its way into the script?

Yup! Just like 'taking the 5th' or 'murder one'.  At the time of the
show, Toronto used to reside in the county of York, but it has all
been renamed now to York Region, Durham Region, Halton Region, etc.
But the Coroner's Office is still under provincial jurisdiction.

--
Marg, in Toronto, the City of the Knight  <mytoronto@h.......>
Please visit the Upper Canada Connection -
A Canadian Tribute to Geraint Wyn Davies:
http://members.home.net/gwducc/index.htm

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:09:52 -0500
From:    Karen Tobin <LdyAngst@w.......>
Subject: Re: Your Daily Vote & FK's Postion

On 8 Mar 00, at 15:32, Kristin Harris wrote:

> Susan Field, head of KTK, sends this chart to the Powers that Be
> monthly, so yes they are important and yes you should vote at this
> one, the Global 100.

Just because they are forwarded doesn't mean they are read.

There is only one kind of poll/chart, etc, that TV executives depend
upon to make their decisions--ratings. Ratings collected and
published by established, reputable experts. Ratings based upon
the viewing habits of a broad sample of people.

> And if any power ever did look at a chart this
> would be the one. This isn't like the little voting fan booths. This
> is an actual world vote.

Why would "this be the one"? I visited the page and tried to find
any indication of what credentials the people who run it have. There
is nothing to indicate who they are or why we should take their
page seriously.

And why would U.S. tv executives be interested in an "actual world
vote"? What does that even mean?

How can anything that is so easily manipulated be meaningful?
Some one posted today that he or she had voted using 2 e-mail
addresses. If WE know we can increase the numbers by using
multiple addresses, etc., then anyone whom we hope to impress
with these charts knows it, too.

-----
Karen, LdyAngst@w.......
Dark and Stormy Knightie/Mistress of Understatement/Hero Librarian/
Mutant Enemy/Keeper of the Klew/BGoBH/MAS/PiC/Untuned/BGoFkN/
Uncarved/Unloved/Undarned/Unchafed/Ladyloone/KaydickHead
"Yeah, yeah. The bees liked you best. Yeah, yeah."

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:16:04 -0600
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@m.......>
Subject: Re: Your Daily Vote & FK's Postion

First off, let me say that if you want to vote on this chart for fun, by all
means, have fun! Vote early and often!

But, having said that...

From: Karen Tobin <LdyAngst@w.......>
> There is only one kind of poll/chart, etc, that TV executives depend
> upon to make their decisions--ratings. Ratings collected and
> published by established, reputable experts. Ratings based upon
> the viewing habits of a broad sample of people.

Yup, I'm afraid that's right. I'm sure no one in the industry pays attention
to the results of this site.

Kristin Harris wrote:
> And if any power ever did look at a chart this
> would be the one. This isn't like the little voting fan booths. This
> is an actual world vote.

Anything on the internet is global. *My* homesite is globally available --
which doesn't make it all that important.

Karen Tobin wrote:
> Why would "this be the one"? I visited the page and tried to find
> any indication of what credentials the people who run it have. There
> is nothing to indicate who they are or why we should take their
> page seriously.

It's owned by a Dutch company called Millidian. I couldn't find out anything
about them.

> How can anything that is so easily manipulated be meaningful?
> Some one posted today that he or she had voted using 2 e-mail
> addresses. If WE know we can increase the numbers by using
> multiple addresses, etc., then anyone whom we hope to impress
> with these charts knows it, too.

I do think this site is simply a means to collect demographic information
for marketing purposes, and to attract visitors who then see all the ads
posted there.

I read the privacy statement they recently posted. Note that it says,
"Global100.com does not disclose or sell any personally identifiable
information collected at this site to other companies or organizations. In
the future, should Global100.com decide to share its customers' personal or
transactional data with third parties, it will, in advance, provide
notification and the opportunity for its users to indicate whether they
would prefer the company not to provide the information to third parties."

This means that, while they don't sell your personal information in a form
that is "personally identifiable." They will sell the statistics, though.
You're contributing info that they benefit from. It goes on to say that if
they do decide to share information in the future, they will try to contact
you so you can tell them not to use yours. However, if you don't respond --
let's say you change email addies -- they'll happily sell your identifiable
info because you didn't tell them not to.

There are other questionable clauses in their privacy statement that I won't
go into here. I know lots of people enjoy playing this game -- but you all
should be cognizant of the rules *they're* playing by. They don't run this
elaborate site out of the goodness of their heart, they do it because it
makes them money. More power to them -- e-commerce is alive and well!

I won't say any more on this subject -- like I said, I know lots of people
really enjoy voting. Please don't take my reservations about this whole
topic as being a wet blanket and not being a true FK fan. I love the show
and wish it would come back -- but I'm also a realist and know in my heart
it ain't gonna happen. (sigh)

Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:08:56 +0100
From:    Debi McK <vachesang@s.......>
Subject: CERK info

Needed for a fanfic - in the later episodes, LaCroix would broadcast the
Nightcrawler show from the Raven - but didn't he do the show from the Cerk
studio somewhere in earlier eps?  Does anyone know where the studio was, and
is the interior shown in any ep?

Debi McK

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 2000 07:20:04 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Your Daily Vote & FK's Postion

In a message dated 3/8/00 11:44:34 PM Central Standard Time,
nancykam@m....... writes:

> Please don't take my reservations about this whole
>  topic as being a wet blanket and not being a true FK fan. I love the show
>  and wish it would come back -- but I'm also a realist and know in my heart
>  it ain't gonna happen. (sigh)
Maybe not. But, also, even with the slimmest chance of hope there's a chance.
It won't, however, happen if we sit on our duffs and do nothing. Twenty five
years or so ago, people were telling me that Star Trek would never come back.
Many other shows have come back if only for a reunion movie.

And on the subject of the polls - I've pointed this out on other lists I'm
on: maybe it doesn't mean much to TPTB, *but* other fannish sorts who are
voting at the polls for other shows may look at Forever Knight and go, "I
wonder what that is about - i've never heard of it!" or "Hey, I remember
hearing about that show, I wonder if it is really all that good ... People
keep voting for it." So, being the fannish sort of other fandoms to begin
with, they do a little websearching. They stumbled across www.fkfanfic.com or
other pages and start reading. Maybe they scrounge around dig up some tapes
from fans or live in a country where the reruns are still being shown and get
hooked.

I would have NEVER watched Forever Knight if when a friend asked if he could
watch the premiere of season 3 while visiting me, I hadn't kept hearing about
the show. The above other fannish sorts might never watch it if they didn't
keep stumbling across mentions of it on the Internet polls.

Remember, even if in your heart of hearts you are sure it isn't coming back,
there are things to write and fight for - in the US, this includes getting
the Sci Fi Channel to start airing the reruns again! We got a 2nd CD, what
about a third? There's still plenty of music.  Novels. Merchandising.
Videos... etc. (Good grief, you wouldn't BELIEVE the shows that Columbia
Video offers on professional tapes now! FK may never have been in the top ten
of tv show ratings, but neither were some of these!)

So, even if you think you are just voting in the polls for the fun of voting,
that vote could make a difference, even if it just attracts other fans. TPTB
may not care about the actual polls, but they do care about statistics. Those
new fans become a statistic, especially if they start writing letters saying,
"At least start re-airing the reruns so I can see all the episodes!"

Uhr, this soap box is terribly high... can someone help me down??? ;-D

--Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:37:23 -0000
From:    Tracy Gooding <Tracy.Gooding@n.......>
Subject: Re: Your Daily Vote & FK's Position

On 09/03/0012:20 GMT Libratsie wrote (amongst many other things):

<<Uhr, this soap box is terribly high... can someone help me down??? ;-D>>

<Adding another layer, and a ladder>  Thank goodness for some optimism after all
this doom and gloom.  So, I don't know if TPTB actually read the letters and
emails we send.  But if they do, and then we stop, what kind of message does
that send?

The show 'Blakes 7' has been mentioned from time to time on this list,
especially as it had a similarly bleak last episode to 'Last Knight'.  That show
ended in the early 80's.  I heard very recently that a reunion-type TV movie is
still in the works pending additional funding.  If they can do it after all this
time, why not FK?

In the meantime, more merchandising would do very nicely.

Tracy

Tracy.Gooding@n.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 2000 07:28:30 -0600
From:    Kristin Harris <kris1228@s.......>
Subject: Your Daily Vote and FK's *increased* Position

Hello!

This is just a reminder to vote for FK daily on the Gloabl 100 (the
important charts). To go vote today go here:

http://www.global100.com/item.asp?Item=51259

Currently it's unofficial position is #6. (if we increase this it will
increase officially)

Officially it is # 7.

Thanks for helping!
Kristin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:10:49 -0500
From:    Tracysue <tracysue@i.......>
Subject: KC's 1999 Fiction

I would like to suggest that people go read KC Susan's uproriously funny
fiction (including the 1999 Snixco Catalog, How the Nix Stole Christmas,
and a story that she and I co-wrote entitled How I learned to Stop
Worrying and Love the Evil Pink Shirt).
*Cough*Cough*Cough*nominateit*Cough*Cough*Cough*

I now have a page for her fiction up at my website,
http://members.xoom.com/tracysue2/Library.html

There is also a link to www.fkfanfic.com to promote the fanfic contest
there.

--

Tracy Sue -Vaquera "One of the most basic rules for survival on any
planet is never to upset someone wearing black leather.* This is why
protesters against the wearing of animal skins by humans unaccountably
fail to throw their paint over Hell's Angels. "-- Terry Pratchett, The
Last Continent

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:39:43 -0500
From:    Cindy Clark <clarkcindy@e.......>
Subject: Re: CERK info

One ep that showed the inside of the studio well  was "Close Call" and also
"Father's Day" if I remember right.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 2000 02:12:53 +0000
From:    jennii <jennii@c.......>
Subject: Re: CERK info

     studio somewhere in earlier eps?  Does anyone know where the studio was,
and is the interior shown in any ep?

         You can see a view of the interior in
         "Father's Day"

          jennii
Dark Knightie and UFfer
jennii@c.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 2000 02:23:08 +0000
From:    jennii <jennii@c.......>
Subject: Re: CERK info

   One ep that showed the inside of the studio well  was "Close Call" and also
"Father's Day" if I remember right.

   Also in "Baby Baby"

   jennii
Dark Knightie and UFfer
jennii@c.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:05:55 EST
From:    SField8067@a.......
Subject: Re: Your Daily Vote & FK's Postion

Regarding the Global World Charts and other things. I have to say that i
personally would not continue Kickstart the Knight projects, if in my heart i
felt that there was no hope for anything.
Forever Knight has proven itself time and time again to be a consistant fan
favorite.
Do TPTB read the charts? all i can tell you is that i send them directly to
the desks of Stephen Chao, Bonnie Hammer and Tristar/Sony, and anyone else i
think will make things happen for us all! We do know for sure that the
e-mails are being read.The new Ad coupled with huge online fan response just
might do the Trick.
If we all fall into a slump, thinking, "what chance do we have now cause its
been awhile" then for sure we all get nothing. it only takes a few seconds to
type your vote,to e-mail a letter,to sign a petiton.everyone is online
anyway, and wouldn't it be great to read the news that due to overwelming fan
response more Fk will happen?
please guys, lets show them we are here in force!
susan ellen field
KtK

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:32:34 EST
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: CERK info

In a message dated 03/08/2000 10:47:47 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
vachesang@s....... writes:

<< Needed for a fanfic - in the later episodes, LaCroix would broadcast the
 Nightcrawler show from the Raven - but didn't he do the show from the Cerk
 studio somewhere in earlier eps?  Does anyone know where the studio was, and
 is the interior shown in any ep? >>

I don't know where it was supposed to be, but I do know that at the very
least, the interior was shown in the second season ep "Close Call".

Laurie of the Isles

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:39:13 EST
From:    "Doņa Angel D.S." <donaangel@h.......>
Subject: Subject: Re: Forever Knight HAS Dropped Officially!

Cloud <clouddancer@h.......> had said in Mon. 3-6/7 digest #2000-67--

>Kristin Harris wrote:
>>GO HERE TO VOTE FOR FK:
>>http://www.global100.com/item.asp?Item=51259
>>(Please try to do this daily, or atleast once a week.
>Thanks for the update, Kristin. For some reason I thought you could only
>vote monthly. I'll be sure to get there MUCH more often now!

I second Cloud's "post"--Thanks, Kristin, for mentioning that we could vote
daily--I, too, had thought that you could only vote once a month! NOW I know
and will also--like a lot more FK Fans {I hope!*G*}--vote MUCH more often!
~~Angel
a.k.a.Doņa Angel <donaangel@h.......>
Vaquera/Future Proud Vaq Brat/VaqDreamer/INCArnate/Immortal
Beloveds/Ravenette/Faithfuls/Urchin/DH/The Crew/CW/BBFC

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 2000 15:45:15 EST
From:    "Doņa Angel D.S." <donaangel@h.......>
Subject: Bonds Between NewbornVampire & 1 or  2 Sires

Since I've relatively new to FK FanFic-dom, would y'all please give me your
thoughts and tell me what is commonly accepted in FK FanFic and FK Fandom
about the following:

--Recalling the season 1 ep "Fatal Mistake" where Nick thinks he's drained
Alexandra, and LC find's "there's still life in" her and gives her his
blood, thereby completing bringing her across, would the new vampire
"re-born" in such a manner have 2 vampire masters, 2 vampire
father(s)/mother(s)/sires, and have vampire "ties" to each of her
"parents"?--e.g. Nick and LaCroix, in that episode-- as one
draining--accidentally in the "heat of a...romantic situation" or on purpose
with good intentions, i.e. "to save"--the mortal from permanent death [death
from illness or fatal injuries, for example], and then the other vampire
giving her the necessary vampire blood--thereby, saving her from almost
certain PERMANENT death and also establishing a connection, "an eternal
bond", between them?  And would the "ties" to one of these "parents" be
equal or stronger between the new "childe" and one or both of her "parents"?
What do you think?

And, while I'm here and sorta on the same topic...who do ya'll think
finished bringing Alyce Hunter across in "Dark Knight - The Second
Chapter"--did Nick give her his blood before the paramedics took her
apparently dead body away, or did LaCroix come back to her later that night
and give her his blood--since we find out about 20 episodes later that
LaCroix is "too old and powerful" to have been destroyed as Nick had assumed
he had been? It seems to me, IMHO, that at the VERY end of the ep, when Nick
was talking to Nat about Alyce, that he was telling Nat the truth and seemed
like he thought that Alyce was indeed dead. He does sense the presence of
another vampire--but I cannot tell if he does see Alyce up at the skylight
in the museum's roof/ceiling?...Whatd'ya think?

Thanks!
Angel a.k.a. Doņa Angel <donaangel@h.......>
Vaquera/Future Proud Vaq Brat/VaqDreamer/INCArnate/Immortal
Beloveds/Ravenette/Faithfuls/Urchin/DH/The Crew/CW/BBFC

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:12:06 +1300
From:    Knightraven <knightraven@c.......>
Subject: Re: Bonds Between NewbornVampire & 1 or  2 Sires

would the new vampire "re-born" in such a manner have 2 vampire masters, 2
vampire father(s)/mother(s)/sires, and have vampire "ties" to each of her
> "parents

Well, I think that only the giver of blood would be the sire, though being
of the same family, Nick should be able to feel/sense Alexandra as his
sister.
Though in this instance where the blood taker was not the giver, I would
imagine the link or control of the fledgling would be compromised as the
sire would not be able to 'connect' to the fledgling through the child's
blood as one would if he had tasted of her as well. However I believe the
link can be strengthened by repeated sharing of blood over a period of time,
thus bringing them up to a normal sire/fledgling level.

 Who do ya'll think finished bringing Alyce Hunter across in "Dark Knight -
The Second Chapter"

I agree that Nick thought her dead...this was definately LC's doing...but
then in the realm of FKfic...it could have been anyone really...<eg>

Kylie.
knightraven@c.......
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/knightraven

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:42:10 EST
From:    MRKKaye@a.......
Subject: Fwd: Your Daily Vote & FK's Postion

In a message dated 3/8/2000 11:10:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
LdyAngst@w....... writes:

<< Just because they are forwarded doesn't mean they are read. >>
It's just as possible that they are.

<<There is only one kind of poll/chart, etc, that TV executives depend
upon to make their decisions--ratings. Ratings collected and
published by established, reputable experts.>>
  More than one(Arbitron, Nielsen, Audits & Surveys Worldwide and the
centers(University of Wisconsin,University of Michigan, University of
Massachusetts, George Washington University in DC, and dozens of others) that
do surveys for research for PAC groups and advertisers to determine the
effect of violence on teens/minority representation/marketing groups for
advertisers/etc - and they don't always agree. But they have had an effect on
network programming.

<< There is nothing to indicate who they are or why we should take their
page seriously.>>
   They do give their names. That they give higher ratings to people who can
be better associated with specific groups ie. country, sex, age group,
identifiable Service Provider customers or privacy concious e-mail service
users is what 'survey sampling' is about - so they seem to have the basics of
valid survey sampling.

<<And why would U.S. tv executives be interested in an "actual world
vote"? >>
SONY is not an American company. And Forever Knight has been aired in other
countries.

<<If WE know we can increase the numbers by using
multiple addresses, etc., then anyone whom we hope to impress
with these charts knows it, too.>>
And the people who set the ratings can account for this in their ratings. Not
necessarily on a one-to-one basis, but by simply asking ISP companies how
many names a person can have, and allowing again for addy's that com from
e-mail services (ie. mail.com) these can all be statistically accounted for
in the 'ratings'. Of course it also explains why people who don't give any
information are given much lower 'ratings'.

This company seems to trying to start a legitimate 'internet' survey company
-- a new and soon to be fast-growing field for survey research. What would be
good would be to see what their results may be as compared to other companies
that are attempting to enter this area (ie. Intersurvey, University of
Wisconsin, or Audits & Surveys Worldwide).

Off to e-mail them and ask about their use and/or analysis of this.

M. Kaye

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 8 Mar 2000 to 9 Mar 2000 (#2000-69)
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