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Digest - 21 Apr 1996 to 22 Apr 1996 - Special issue

Mon, 22 Apr 1996

There are 24 messages totalling 1002 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. LaCroix, Now & Then (longish)
  2. LaCroix - throughout the seasons - bits of war stuff
  3. Why this list? I dunno... (2)
  4. "Jane Doe" on Sci-Fi?
  5. Cousin almost... but no affiliation
  6. other FK stuff
  7. Lacroix, Now & Then
  8. Top Ten RK/FK
  9. A New Vampire . . .
 10. Janette and LaCroix (3)
 11. Re;Tactile Sence
 12. HORRIFYING Fanfic Idea!
 13. Thongs and a sense of humor
 14. Timeslots (was Jane Doe on Scifi)
 15. The Unnamed Faction - Affiliation Pin
 16. Sphinx Faction / transcribed waves
 17. CON ANNOUNCEMENT:  Anglicon 9
 18. Farewells
 19. Vampire pain
 20. Name That Roman General
 21. Light Cousins(was Re: LaCroix, Now & Then)


Date:    Sun, 21 Apr 1996 20:21:39 -0700
From:    AKR <r.......@w.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix, Now & Then (longish)

> From: "Cynthia J. Hoffman" <choff@v.......>
> Nigel said she was "wonderful" and that the episode, Ashes to Ashes,
> is dynamite and will make the Knighties very happy.
        Really?  I'm positively perky at the thought. :)

Now, we all know that I, unlike Laurie, the Eloquent Cousin, *am* here for
Nick's quest. I think many of LaCroix's views are simply wrong. That said,
let me set my Knightiehood temporarily aside and revel in the admiration
of LC that Light Cousinhood was created for.
Not to mention Fleur-Boosterism. :)

> As for AMPH...
        The cut church scene!  The missing "Why?"!  Ooooooh!

> Blowing off Nick's feelings after he accidentally killed Alyssa...
        DoN should have come out of spoiler protection last night, so I think
this is safe to say.  Skip ahead if not...
        We know that Nat often hides her feelings in sarcasm, especially
this season.  Few of us take that to mean she has no feelings.  In fact,
many of us interpret her harshness as an indication of how much she cares,
growing out of the tremendous dual frustration of her relationships with
Nick -- professionally and personally, she's had to watch him backslide
through this season, knowing that every misstep takes him farther away
from her.
        I think that the same mode of evaluation may be applied to LC,
barring exceptional circumstances.  I think that the apparent
insensitivity of DoN -- strikingly similar to that of CL, actually -- in
fact masked tremendous emotion.  LC was holding a dead rose during the
wedding.  LC + Roses = Memories of Fleur.  The spoiler list already
covered the subject of why LC didn't take Alyssa for his Fleur-revenge, so
I won't go into it here more than to point out that Nick intended to bring
Alyssa across, and LC, because he let Fleur go, would see "true love" only
in the letting go.  So that rose-entwined bower is heavy with
significance, if you want to see it.  Poor LC, so recently deprived of
Fleur, even more recently (if temporarily) deprived of Janette (post PotM
flashback, I thought), forced to watch Nick play at loving a mortal... and
facing the possibility of somehow losing even Nick, should Nick succeed at
bringing Alyssa across.  I think LC probably felt *relief* at Nick's
failure, and dismissed the feeling as unworthy... weak... and thus he
retreated to mocking insensitivity.

> Now, if he would only *want* to change, I could almost buy it if he did.
        Though the definition of Light Cousin is one who wishes to redeem
LC, I don't think he's ready for that kind of change.  And I think that's
good, from a dramatic standpoint.  A hero is only as interesting as his
strongest foil; Nick is little without LC to struggle against.

> From: Marina Bailey <tmar@o.......>
> LaCroix is a vampire who likes being one. Nothing wrong with that.
        Unless, of course, Nick is right. But that's a given... :)

> From: Swordsister <catheboo@c.......>
> In The Fix, here's a guy who seems to be genuinely (if sarcastically)
> worried about Nick, and doesn't want him to grow old, die, etc.
        Isn't that a marvelous scene?  When he steps into the sunlight?
The line between love and possession is a very thin one for LC... perhaps
for all vampires, but especially LC.  In his view, Nick's quest is
suicidal, and so he wants to protect Nick from his own folly.  However, it
is for his *own* sake that LC wants to protect Nick -- "I will mourn for
my Nicholas," he said, melancholically, in AMPH -- he does not wish to
face existence without his son.
        I've heard it said that no parent should ever outlive their child,
that the grief is beyond expression.  Vampires might cultivate cold
hearts, but in this Family, I think it still holds true.

> From: Lisa Anne Prince <Moonlight@g.......>
> I've always felt that LaCroix, at the heart of it all, is very lonely.
        Indeed.  To the best of my knowledge, the last time he intended
to add someone to his Family (as opposed to simply bringing them across)
it was Fleur.  He wanted her at his side for all eternity...  Janette had
recently acquired Nick, and I think she was happy enough with her new toy
that not only was she not adverse to the idea of a sister, I think she
might have felt LC deserved this other kind of companion, too.
        But the loss scarred him.  Invincible as LC is in almost every
other way, he is still mourning that eight-century-old loss.  It drove him
into himself; it made him grasp more tightly at Nick and Janette...  which
eventually sent them both slipping through his fingers, leaving him even
more alone.  (Nick overtly, Janette quietly... IMHO.)

> >Oh, and as far as BMV and romantic natures go...
> "That a cold, still heart could feel such pain."
        Shall we actually compile a list? :)  Me, too!

> From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
> One reason why I've always maintained that the LC we see in flashbacks
> is Nick's perception and therefore not to be trusted...
        Of course, this means that the Nick we see in *LC's* flashbacks
is LC's perception, and therefore not to be trusted.  (Too bad LC has so
few flashbacks!)
        The potential subjectivity of flashbacks gives a poigniant
dimension to those in NiQ, however, if you want to let it.  When Nick
gives LC is arm, after wrenching out that stake, Nick looks disgusted.
Repulsed.  His expression just screams, "Yuck!"  And this is how LC
remembers it -- LC, whom Nigel always manages to make look *enraptured*
when he exchanges blood with Nick.

> NICK.  NOT LaCroix.  Yes, LC manipulated him, made him doubt her
> "purity"  -- but so what?  Regardless of whether what LC said about her
> was true, did that make it all right for Nick to kill her?
        Of course not.  Nick screwed up royally.  As he well knows...
"They are the innocent; we are the guilty."  Ok: so he's overcompensating
slightly...  Nick is what he is largely because of LC.  And I DON'T just
mean a vampire.  Nor do I simply mean tortured and angst-ridden, though
the ex-priest in SoB perceptively noted that LC opened the door to that.
This is an LC-appreciating post, so it needs to be said that we rarely
see any of what must have been LC's *mentoring* relationship with Nick, a
teaching that had to extend to languages and arts and ever so much more
than vampirism.

> She's never found her *captivity* so onerous.
        *Never*? I'm no Janette expert... *Never?* Really?

> Look at all the trouble Nick has, in a far shorter time frame.  LaCroix
> can't *afford* psychologically, to second-guess himself.
        Nick's guilt exists because he has believed, all along, that what
he was doing was wrong.  LC has never doubted himself, though he's doubted
existence itself, and I believe that if he decided that there was a valid
-- to him, and his own code -- reason that killing was wrong, he would
simply stop killing and think no more of it.  Murders *after* that point
might induce guilt, which he would deal with and expunge, but I don't
think LC would look back the way Nick does.  Moot point, of course...

Thanks for this thread, everybody.  I've enjoyed it.
     Would you all do it for Janette, so I can sit back and learn? :)

(The advantage of posting less, or the disadvantage of longer posts?)

****** Amy, Lady of the Knight  (AKR) r.......@w....... ******
"Yet who knows not conscience is born of love?" -- W.S. Sonnet 151
Knightie     Light Cousin     Fleur-Booster     (Im)Mortal Beloved


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 00:33:17 -0300
From:    "l.d. steele" <aa300@f.......>
Subject: LaCroix - throughout the seasons - bits of war stuff

> Oooh, Dawn, start something flammable, why don't you. (And on the subject
> of lurking & Wars; you are the same Dawn who got kidnapped, brainwashed,
> tickled with feathers, and then attacked Nick and Lacroix during War 4,
> right?) :)

I actually had second thoughts after posting it. <g> Considering all the good
posts that have come out of it -- I'm glad I did.

Re: The wars and DieHard Dawn -- Dawn the Terrible, Dawn the kidnapped,
Dawn the terminally drugged, hypnotized, and otherwise not in her 'right
mind'.... :)

Yes. That was me. To those with whom I have 'met' during the past four wars,
I am going to make the following pledge. "I will NOT under any
circumstances, be off my rocker during the next war." If someone else starts a
plot where I go crazy that's fine -- I have lots of experience. But I'm
not going to write myself in the loony bin again just for a few laughs. :)

(do I hear any sighs of relief? Perri? <g>)

I've just reread all the character analysis on LaCroix. Good stuff, and I think
we have a consensus that <how> we view and sympathise with LaCroix
depends on where you started watching Forever Knight.

I decided to see if I could pick the four lines that seemed to best
represent the views of the people on this topic (of course <they> might
not agree. <g>)

So if you've been just deleting these posts due to a lack of time, why
not read the summary and then join in? :)

(very good analyses deleted here and later to save on space).

From: MS CHRISTINA L KAMNIKAR <VQRW76A@p.......> (viewed from DK I)
>         He's still a rotten psychopathic vampire.  But now I know *why*.
> Now, if he would only *want* to change, I could almost buy it if he did.

I feel that LaCroix is the character that has actually changed over the
course of the show. Or maybe it's our perception of him? Now, at the end
of the third season I can accept acts of cruelty (Blind Faith), sympathy
(Fever), dark humour (Fallen Idol - that scene in the bar!! Yes! - one of
my favourite pieces of action <without> words!), or anything else.

Part of this is due to NB's great acting. I choose to agree with
previously stated opinions that LaCroix Lite was due to a extended period
of blood mixed with <too> much alcohol. :)

From: Marina Bailey <tmar@o.......> (started with Father's Day)
> Have to disagree with this. I don't think LaCroix is rotten or psychopathic
> at all.(snip) I think that whatever LaCroix does is motivated by what he
> considers to be the best thing for Nick (or Janette, or whomever).

From: Catherine Boone (started with The Fix and BMV)
>  showed a person who was normally a relentless and unforgiving soul, yet >
> still knows the meaning of kindness and love.  (snip) above all else, LC
> wants Nick to live. ... That's the bottom line to most of the things he does.

From: Lisa Anne Prince <Moonlight@g.......> (started with STF)
> I've always felt that LaCroix, at the heart of it all, is very
> lonely.  His constant attempts to get Nick to accept him and stay
> with him are, to me, the actions of someone who is very much afraid
> of being left alone.

From: Jane Credland <janes@i.......> (started with DK I)
> IMHO, LaCroix wants his family back.  He wants Nick and Janette to return
> to the fold.  All of his machinations are designed with this purpose.  They
> are not designed to hurt and damage; although these are sometimes side
> effects of his actions.

From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......> (another Father's Day)
> He'd be a psychopathic human being perhaps, but he's NOT human.
> Different standards apply. Imv, he's a pretty psychologically healthy vampire,
> except for that one, *teeny* blind spot:  Nick. (snip) His son is trying to
> commit suicide; he's trying to stop him.

Sorry for anybody I've missed - I'm on digest. :)

There are a lot of different views, and I have to say that I can
rationalize <all> of them. <EG>

After all. I'm a DieHard. We don't have to choose a faction <or> a point
of view!

I came in at... I Will Repay. It was a few episodes of straight Nick and
Nat for a while. When I did see LaCroix it was as a ghost and I had no
idea when he had died. It wasn't until the reruns of Dark Knight that I
caught up.

So my first impression of LaCroix was as slightly ... off. Both the Nick/
Janette/LC scene in "False Witness", and the torture scene in "Dead Air"
strongly affected my perception of him for a long time.

He was intelligent, manipulative, and slightly psycotic.

Throughout season two, my feelings and impressions were forcibly changed
(you-hoo... Gillian Horvath?!? <g>). I added a strong love-affection tie
between LaCroix & Nick. In first season it had appeared as more of a
"Nick as LC's possession" relationship.

The slightly psycotic part didn't really change. :)

So we come to the third season. The first part was... sort-of
forgettable as far as LC goes. (We <want> to forget!!!) He didn't seem to
normalize until "Night in Question", but... that was normal? Yes.

More Nick & LC stuff in "Sons of Belial". Okay. I can dead with that, but
then we have... "Fever" (Another of G. Horvath's creations) and "Human
Factor". I was forced through the writing (and NB's acting) to realize
that LC <did> have feelings for other than just himself and 'extensions'
of himself.

He has a lot more feelings locked up in there than I gave him credit for.

I agree with Laurie Fenster in that we can't really judge LaCroix by
human standards. His values and beliefs are not agreeable with present
societies norms. He can't be labelled amoral either. He <has> moral,
ideals, values, and connections - it's just hard for me to identify
closely to them.

Since I have a ton of schoolwork to do, I'll try to see where the
forkni-l list continues in a few days. :)

I thank everyone who has analyzed themselves and LaCroix so thoroughly
the last few days. I've actually kept them all, and I'm going to reread
them before trying to write my little piece of LC fanfic and have to get
inside his head. :)

l.d. steele
h36a@u....... or aa300@f.......


Date:    Sun, 21 Apr 1996 23:40:44 -0400
From:    "Tammy Pond  [Digest]" <nightmist@g.......>
Subject: Why this list? I dunno...

...except that it's *THE* best collection of intelligent people I've
run across anywhere. People say this is "going downhill" - but have
you peeked your head out into the "real world" of usenet? There's
some REAAAAAAAL flakes out there. People that can't separate reality
from fantasy. (Okay, I don't care if they think they're Napolean, but
they could at least *act* normal, alright? <evil grin>)

Yes, in case you hadn't guessed, I'm throwing my two cents in on this
apparent list debate...

Here we've got *real* people. People with <gasp> coherant thought. A
sense of humor. (A really TWISTED sense of humor but hey...<snicker>)
Appreciation of quality television. (After all, isn't that why we all
watch FK in the first place??) This is the first place where (outside
of one occasion which we all know but will go unnamed) I haven't
looked at a post and thought "My gawd, what IS that person SMOKING???
They're outta their ever-lovin' mind!" or "Yech, that person's gives
me the heebie jeebies." No, here there's real people, with real
opinions and real personalities.

People I would *LOVE* to have as neighbors. (then I'd have SANE
people to talk to. Or, at least, my definition of sane...)

I have to say, there are some posts I've seen on here where I've just
sat here, struggling to hold my stomach because I'm laughing so hard.
Even the "You might be a redneck" dude (can't think of his name)
would have trouble making me laugh this hard...

Okay, I'll get off the soapbox and post this now. See ya!

Spamming for FOREVER KNIGHT!!                 The Mad Fax Spammer
    Save the Forever Knight TV show! Write nytmist@l.......
    or visit this web site (Site name *IS* case sensitive!!!):


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 00:03:53 -0400
From:    Jill Marie Spetoskey <jilkey@u.......>
Subject: Re: "Jane Doe" on Sci-Fi?

> On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, AKR wrote:
> >   My TV guide came with my paper this morning, and
> > when I flipped to Monday to confirm the Sci-Fi Channel's showing of FK, it
> > said that tomorrow's episode *IS* "Jane Doe"!  That can't be right, can it?
> > Not that I wouldn't be grateful...
> >

>From today's Detroit Free Press/News tv booklet, they've got "Jane Doe"
listed in the Sci-Fi slot as well as the 4am thursday slot (which is
probably wrong.  That one usually runs a week late) and the Saturday
latenight slot as well.

Jill Marie


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 00:06:31 -0400
From:    Nichole Gantshar <lmgst20+@p.......>
Subject: Cousin almost... but no affiliation

I finally saw a new episode (for me) last night.  I think I've gone three
months without seeing the show.  Watching it just reminded me how much I
just like the show when Jannette and Shanke were still there.  Except for
Sons of Billal (sp?) I barely remember a single episode this year.

While the episode "Dead of Night" just seemed like a retelling of
Flatliners it did make me realize how much I am going to miss Nigel
Bennet's portrayl of LaCoix.  I've lost interest in the show this year
and won't be sad to see it go.  When I first started watching it was to
see Nick.  Now I watch to see Bennett's acting.  I think the combinatoin
of LaCoix and Bennett is just one of those great match ups that create
magic in an actors career.  Seldom do I watch television and think about
what a great job an actor is doing but I do with Bennett.  I don't
understand what all the fuss is about his looks but I'd pay $50 to see
him in a play anyday.  Some actors have a gift of making villians more
interesting than the hero and Bennett is certainly one of them.

Oh well I guess I'll miss parts of the show.  But Patrick Bauchau showed
up as a vampire again on Kindred after nothing ever happened with Blood
Ties.  Perhaps Nigel Bennett will show up again as a compelling villian
on a new series.

Nichole - going back into lurkdom


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 04:25:15 GMT
From:    Karen Parker <horcgal@u.......>
Subject: other FK stuff

I guess this is "sort of" off topic. but can anyone tell me how to get on
the Forever Knight newsgroup lists if thats what they are. I keep hearing
them mentioned. But dont know exactly what they are, assuming they are sim.
to this.




Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 00:38:39 EDT
Subject: Lacroix, Now & Then

Knew we'd hear from you eventually, Laurie. :) Goody! Heh heh heh

  * Rebuttal Time. Skip if the conversation bores you!*

Points I'm Not Disputing at ALL:
        1.  Vampirism isn't inherently evil, and biting people when it's
your main source of sustenance is not a Bad Thing. (I agree. But there are
degrees involved here. Killing someone for any reason other than food or
self-defense is pretty hard to justify)
        2.  When you came in really influences your viewpoint. (Definitely.
Totally. I'm not discussing this 'cause I think I'll convert anyone... just
having fun with it, and trying to think out loud)
        3.  The Perception Thing. (<<sigh>> We'll never get this settled to
everyone's satisfaction, about whether Nick's flashbacks are the Whole
Truth or Not. Me, I tend to think they are... but I also think he tends to
suppress the good times. Just keep in mind this is where _I'm_ coming from,
and I don't expect anyone to change their mind about this. I know I won't)

        Back to Lacroix.
        Yup, he does most of his rotten deeds out of fear of losing Nick,
or a deeply misguided attempt to "protect" Nick. As I said, I understand
where he's working from, here... 1000 years of solitude; no contemporaries;
no one else who *can* understand him; no fear of just about anything
outside himself; no need to fit in, to interact with the rest of the
world... which puts way too much pressure on Nick and Janette, the only
people in the universe he cares about besides himself.  The guy has to TRY
to get more of a life. I am serious here, people.  Two significant
relationships is not enough for anyone, even the world's most
self-sufficient vampire.

        I would *love* to see well-written fanfic about other children of
Lacroix. Whether they got along.  Whether they're alive or not. Before or
after Nick and Janette. Anything. Just to see how it would go. Why, oh why
doesn't he try to get more children? (And don't give me the "I like THAT
one" line  again. I don't see why this should stop LC from forming any
other attachments---except if he's too damn stubborn to try. Control freak
properties rear their ugly heads again!)

        Sylvaine & LOVE YOU TO DEATH: Ooops. Yeah, Laurie, you're right. I
tend to forget---Nick's behavior here was fairly awful too. The Crusades
really did a number on the guy's head, didn't they?  Natalie IS pretty
fortunate that he seems to have wised up over the last century.

        >Why? He saved Janette from a horrible existence. She's never found
her *captivity* so onerous.
        Were we watching the same episode? :) (not criticism or a slam,
just wondering)  Earlier in that ep, Janette is yelling at Nick about how
nothing has changed in a thousand years---and says something to the effect
of how he, above all men, should understand how being someone's property is
horrible. Other things she lets slip---not referring to being a vampire,
but about Lacroix---ending up "in a different prison", and the fact that
she doesn't dispute Nick's statements about captivity at the end, lead one
to believe that Mr. Control Freak is not always a barrel of laughs.
FATHER'S DAY, which converted so many Cousins, also shows him in a very
scary light, intimidating Janette into betraying Nick, who she was trying
to help.  Janette tells Lacroix where Nick went out of fear of him, and
what he might do to her. Not a great relationship.

        >Why? What makes him a psychopathic vampire?
        You're right again. He's not a psychopathic vampire. He's a
psychopath, period. ;)

        A lot of people say that different moral standards apply to
vampires. I'll give you that; I'll even say that a certain amount of
forgiveness must be allowed for uncontrollable impulses, and inhuman
desires. And yes, it appears that a lot of the time Lacroix's vampire
existence is fairly normal (as far as vampirism goes) and low-key. He's not
stupid, and he's not out of control. Most of the time.

        That said. Lacroix's "*teeny* blind spot".  Nick. His relationship
with his favorite son is way, way too painful and ugly.  Because Lacroix
doesn't feel remorse, or regret, he thinks Nick is abnormal when he does.
Because he's incapable of guilt, and totally divorced from humanity, he
thinks Nick's fascination with it is "unhealthy". If he'd let Nick have the
room to lead a life just a little separated from him, he wouldn't have
driven him so far away. He forgets that Nick is a lot younger, and closer
to human than he is. (And this 3rd season, this approach is working)

        And he purposely forgets that he is not Nick. Nick is not him.
What he can't stand to feel---guilt, doubt, fear---might NOT kill his son.
It isn't killing Nick now. Okay, he's trying to become human, and that
looks suicidal to Lacroix.  But if he would just SEPARATE himself for two
seconds, he might realize that what he thinks is bad for Nick, and what is
ACTUALLY bad for Nick might not, really, be the same thing? There _are_
fates worse than death... living a nightmare is one of them, and Nick might
feel this way at some point about being a vampire if LC doesn't relax.

        Right now, Nick is close to the age Lacroix probably was when he
brought across Janette.  Will he let Nick bring across children of his own?
Sure. When he's fairly certain it won't work out. :) Sometimes he hasn't
had a say in it; but when he has, he's objected strongly.

        Not everything he does is motivated by a wish for what's best for
Nick, or fear of losing Nick (someone explain Daniel in FATHER FIGURE to
me, okay?)  If it came down to a choice between Nick and himself... I'm not
sure whose life he'd save. If he thought Nick was being stupid and deserved
to die? Do you think he'd sacrifice his own life? Maybe. Maybe not. (See
BLOOD MONEY flashbacks)

       No, he's not one-dimensional. Yes, he's a bad person. :P Totally
bad? Totally evil? Uh-unh. Nope. But still bad, and most of his bad
behavior is unjustified.

       Look, he takes a lot of my worst traits---fear of losing people,
stubborness, obsessiveness, reactivity, impatience, vengefulness,
possessiveness---and then he goes nuts with them, due to being a vampire
and being 2000 years old. If I ever became a vampire (yeah, I know,
impossible, let's not get into *that* discussion) I'd probably go down
Lacroix's path. If I didn't exercise the ability to realize that other
people have different lives, different viewpoints, and the right to do what
they want to. That's why I still hate the character. That's why I root for
Nick, and why I don't want him to give up on being mortal. This is the kind
of stuff I'd do if I had been badly brought up. This is the kind of stuff I
can't forgive.

Personal baggage? Totally subjective?           So? :) What's your point?

Christina       vqrw76a@p.......     Merc    FoFoD   trapped in my skull


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 01:00:54 -0400
From:    Maureen McAllister <MoeMcAl@a.......>
Subject: Top Ten RK/FK

Ten subjects (among others) I may never see the same way after FK:

10. 1962 green Caddie convertibles
 9.  Souvlaki
 8. The Middle Ages ( or history in general)
 7. Ribena
 6. Late night radio talk shows ( no fun without LC)
 5. Men wearing vests and button-up shirts
 4. Quality Television ( as in none, i.e., the Other show :-P )
 3. Contact lenses
 2. The night shift
 1. Fandom ( as in good, constructive, etc.-- SOSFK, fanfiction,
affiliations, etc.)

FoD, Nat-Packer and Knightie-at-large


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 01:10:01 -0400
From:    Nathanial Cook <NatRobin@a.......>
Subject: Re: A New Vampire . . .

Hi Everyone!

Are you ready for one of those geeky "I'm new here.  Can anyone show me
around?" types of letters?  Well, I hope so.

I just signed up for this newsgroup, and I've read many of your posts.
 Understood a few of them, but I'm left in the dark (shouldn't be a problem)
about a lot of things.  Mind if I ask a few questions?

1) First of all, where's everyone from?  I just wonder every so often where
my e-mail's going.  I'm writing from near Atlanta, GA.

2) What are the factions?

3) What's this "thong" thing?

4) A lot of you were using abbreviations (such as DoN) -- what do they mean?
 Are they character or show titles?

5) What're these wars you've referred to?

6) Is there any way to catch episodes from the first season?  I admit, I came
in during the second.  I was just getting used to everything when they
decided to switch out half of the show's characters.  Sigh.  I miss Janette
the most.  SIGH!!!!!

7) What's this digest thing?

Well, that's about all the questions I can think of right now.  I hope I can
catch up with your discussions.  I liked everyone's analysis of LaCroix (is
that LC?).

I also liked the discussion about Urs (her name could also be a shortened
form of Ursa, though I think that Ursula is more likely.  Either that, or the
writers just liked the sound of the name???).

Finally, before I go, I must ask for the latest updates on the fate of FK
(see, I know what that stands for!).  What's up with the end of season three?
 Prospects for season four?  And so forth.

'Til the morrow . . .

NAT!!!  A Spinner of Tales


Date:    Sun, 21 Apr 1996 22:00:10 -0700
From:    Elizabeth Ann Lewis <elewis@u.......>
Subject: Janette and LaCroix

With the recent discussion of Nick's and LaCroix's relationship in the LC:
Now and Then thread, I have been reminded of a question.  In the second
season present (as opposed to flashbacks), how often did we see Janette and
LaCroix together?  Thanks to Vickie, I can remember one scene (Bad Blood),
but as far as I know, they never came face-to-face at any other time.  Now,
while it is entirely possible that it happened offscreen and away from
Nick's view, I think it is likely that Janette and LaCroix were estranged
for reasons that may or may not have had to do with Nick.  In Bad Blood, if
I (or rather Vickie) recall aright, LaCroix only came to the Raven when he
was in trouble.  Did LaCroix not care about his other vampire child, or did
Janette, to an extent, win free of her "captivity"?

Lizbet~*~*~*~*~*~*~Proud Member of the Mercenary Guild ~~ elewis@u.......
~~ Lizbetann@a....... ~~ Ravenette of the New Order ~
Knightie/NatPacker/N&NPacker with Cousinly tendencies and the faintest of
leanings toward Vanquera-ism ~~ Arnyd yw Ewyll hyd yw ~~ Listowner, Middle
Ages Life ~~ http://members.aol.com/Lizbetann/mypage.html


Date:    Sun, 21 Apr 1996 22:32:38 -0700
From:    "Cynthia J. Hoffman" <choff@v.......>
Subject: Re: Janette and LaCroix

On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, Elizabeth Ann Lewis wrote:

> season present (as opposed to flashbacks), how often did we see Janette and
> LaCroix together?

They're shown together in Bad Blood, as Elizabeth mentions.  Janette is
letting Lacroix STAY at the Raven while he's looking for a place to live
when he returns.  Lacroix isn't in trouble in that episode, Nick is and
the entire vampire community is because Jack is on the loose.  The scenes
with Janette and Lacroix show him having her get in touch with Nick to
bring him to the Raven and then there's a scene with the three of them
together during the day.

There's another scene in Stranger Than Fiction where Janette is
babysitting Emikly Weiss and Lacroix drops by to remind Janette that
Emily is to be saved for Nick to kill.

My gut tells me there must be other scenes, but I'm drawing a blank right
now.  Brain like a seive syndrome strikes again.  However, my guess is
that rather than Lacroix not caring about Janette, or even Janette having
won her freedom from "captivity", the two of them have come to some sort
of accomodation that Nick and Lacroix simply haven't reached yet.

Cynthia Hoffman, Proud Raven
Surely you are old enough by now to understand the difference between
"not guilty" and "innocent."  Janette, Fate Worse than Death


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 02:10:31 EDT
From:    Kenneth Dare <102226.1213@c.......>
Subject: Re;Tactile Sence

Amy, Lady of the Knight wrote;
>up in the wardrobe thread.  So does this mean that the vampire tactile
>sense is in fact *dulled* instead of heightened?

  It was always my thought that I hurts them just like it does us, but that
after a while they just get use to it.  You know that after awhile one can
really get use to all kinds of things.  I don't mean to say that they enjoy it
or any thing, only that they can adjust to it.  Kind of like in HL where they
can be killed by mortal standars and they feel all the pain that we would feel
if we were killed.  I mean really after you've been killed a few times, a shot
in the gut, or getting smacked up-side the head will just get to be an

Just a thought.  : )



Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 02:24:56 -0400
From:    Janette Z <Janette92@a.......>
Subject: Re: Janette and LaCroix

In a message dated 96-04-22 01:53:42 EDT, you write:

>They're shown together in Bad Blood, as Elizabeth mentions.  Janette is
>letting Lacroix STAY at the Raven while he's looking for a place to live
>when he returns.

  Oh, and I don't have that episode!!!  <sniff>  You mean there are more than
just 3 scenes?  The only scenes I knew of was the one in Father's Day, the
ones in the A Fate Worse Than Death flashbacks, and the scenes in Human
Factor.  Of course, I do know of the one in Stranger Than Fiction, but I
really forgot about it, because it's so quick.  <sniff>  I wish I had Bad
Blood, <sniff>  Oh well!  I'll just go and pretend that I do... :-)  (Hey,
it's early and I'm tired, that is my only excuse!)  Good night all!

Ravenette, Immortal Beloved,
Seducer, CO-CFW for Evil
MacLeod, Richie Reservist,


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 02:28:53 -0400
From:    Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@f.......>
Subject: HORRIFYING Fanfic Idea!

The idea that came to me while rewatching FEVER was so horrifying I
couldn't write about it for over a week. I don't mean horror as in "that
pun was horrible." I mean as in "THANK GOD that vampires are fiction so
this idea could never REALLY happen!" It goes WAY beyond "Depressing."
But if you LIKED the Asteroid Challenge, you will LOVE this one.

In FEVER the virus, after bonding with the vampire element in the blood,
became communicable by touch. Although only vampires were harmed by the
infection, there was no evidence that infected mortals would not remain
carriers of this (to them) benign virus. We DO know that HIV, even if it
survives the vampire immune system long enough to kill the FEVER virus,
will eventually be destroyed by vampire immunity. What if vampires could
not develop a permanent immunity to the FEVER?

This would mean that ALL vampires would require regular inoculation with
HIV to prevent a recurrence of this plague. Thus a new duty falls on the
Enforcers: prevent ANYONE from finding a cure for AIDS. It is the END of
mercy. ALL mortals knowing of the relationship between HIV and the FEVER
virus must either be killed or brought across IMMEDIATELY. ANY vampire
who threatens to expose this new secret will be executed by FEVER. A new
vampire conspiracy forms to take more direct control of the mortal world
so such ACCIDENTS never happen again, and to divert any research funds
formerly used for AIDS to find a PERMANENT cure for FEVER. The Hunt is
forbidden, and ANY casual contact with mortals is actively discouraged.
Thus, once again, the *Darkness Falls*.

Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <ag775@f.......>
Home Page: http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ag775/home.html
("Evil can be as pure as innocence." Damien Thorne, _Omen III_)


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 03:54:06 -0500
From:    Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine <vanguard@p.......>
Subject: Re: Thongs and a sense of humor

June wrote:
>>Well I just downloaded the CyberVanguard interview, and he seemed to get a
>slightly embaressed/delighted giggle or two out of it.  In fact in an
>can you imagine those sweet Anglo cheeks burning bright red at the fiction
>on JADFE or even FKFIC ?

I don't even want to THINK about it.  I'm almost sorry I asked him about the
thong thread ... <g>

----  TJ


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 03:58:46 -0500
From:    Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine <vanguard@p.......>
Subject: Timeslots (was Jane Doe on Scifi)

>From today's Detroit Free Press/News tv booklet, they've got "Jane Doe"
>listed in the Sci-Fi slot as well as the 4am thursday slot (which is
>probably wrong.  That one usually runs a week late) and the Saturday
>latenight slot as well.

OK, now I'm really confused.  I've seen mention of the Monday at 8 slot,
and the 1AM Thurday night/Friday morning USA slot, and now a 4AM thursday slot?
Is this the 1AM showing in a western time zone?  And what's this 1:50 AM
slot in the "East Coast" post?  Are we looking at syndies here?

In short, what are the nationwide showings of FK?

----  TJ


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 03:13:07 -0500
From:    Lady Sushi <phoenix@i.......>
Subject: Re: The Unnamed Faction - Affiliation Pin

MArgie mentioned for the Unnamed pins:

>Hmm, something that indicates a very close bond seems good, but manacle seems
>a bit too harsh.  This is on the right track though.

How 'bout a pair of fuzzy handcuffs?

Cousin "Susan" Phoenix * Camera Fanatic of the Thong Throng
Charter Unnamed * Example Writer of the Cold Shower Sisterhood * SKLed
**Faciemus ut Dewus Mountainus e Tuo Nasone Exeat!**
"Hey, Marines!  The Chicago Cubs suck!" ~~ The Chigs, S:AaB


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 03:31:21 -0500
From:    Lady Sushi <phoenix@i.......>
Subject: Re: Sphinx Faction / transcribed waves

>Ooooo, I *like* this!!!  And it has the longed-for Oscar Wilde
>connection, too.  "The Sphinx" is one of Wilde's best poems.  I'd
>like to officially declare myself a Sphinx!

It would make the pins simpler, at least.  Are we talking the Egyptian or
Greek Sphinx here, tho?  Eqyptian Sphinxes are predominately male, but Greek
(which I assume is the kind which chated with Oedipus) are female (body of a
lion, wings on an eagle (?), head of a woman).

Great, now I'm having Maan flashbacks...

Cousin "Susan" Phoenix * Camera Fanatic of the Thong Throng
Charter Unnamed * Example Writer of the Cold Shower Sisterhood * SKLed
**Faciemus ut Dewus Mountainus e Tuo Nasone Exeat!**
"Hey, Marines!  The Chicago Cubs suck!" ~~ The Chigs, S:AaB


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 04:56:49 -0700
From:    Jackie <ejdjd@i.......>
Subject: Re: Why this list? I dunno...

At 11:40 PM 4/21/96 -0400, Tammy Pond wrote:
>...except that it's *THE* best collection of intelligent people I've
>run across anywhere. People say this is "going downhill" - but have
>you peeked your head out into the "real world" of usenet? There's
>some REAAAAAAAL flakes out there.

        You have no idea how true this is - think about it - is there any
other list where you would truly desire to meet the other people who post?
Where you would spend *a lot* of money to get to *another country* just to
meet some of the people with whom you have had an "e-mail relationship"
with?  (shudder, shudder)  NOT ON YOUR LIFE!

        This list is truly unique - I've actually met, in real life, a
delightful person off the list, and I intend to meet dozens more, up in
Toronto. This would not, I don't think, happen off any other list!!!

        It is unusual enough in real life to meet "people who think"!  Here,
I can interact with them *every day* if I'd like and it is a real pleasure!

        Thank you!


Support your local Attorney....Send your kid to Medical School!


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 05:34:41 -0700
From:    Jackie <ejdjd@i.......>
Subject: CON ANNOUNCEMENT:  Anglicon 9

This is off one of the newsgroups for those living in the great Northwest!

                                ANGLICON 9
                               May 3-5, 1996
              Quality Inn, 17101 Pacific Hwy S, SeaTac, Washington

This year's Guests of Honor:
                                 GILLIAN HORVATH
 Story editor, "Highlander"; writer, "Quantum Leap", "Forever Knight"

Anglicon is the Northwest's premier British (and international) media event.
It is a celebration of all things British, but special attention is given to
media (television, film, books, etc).  The three-day convention includes:
     Question-and-answer sessions and autograph sessions with the guests...
     art show...art & charity auction...panel discussions...movie
     previews...two video tracks with over 90 hours of British and
     Commonwealth video...dealers' room...dance and masquerade ball...
     casino...gaming...and much more!

>Membership is $45.  Dealer tables and artist panels are also available.
All prices are in U.S. funds.

Anglicon is a non-profit convention with all proceeds benefitting PBS
station KBTC-TV, Tacoma, WA.

Anglicon would like to thank last year's guests, Nigel Bennett and Randy
Rogel, for making Anglicon 8 a success.

For info and updates:
     Call 000-000-0000
     Write to Anglicon, P.O. Box 00000, Xxxxxxx, XX 00000
     E-mail to tiktok@e.......


Support your local Attorney....Send your kid to Medical School!


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 07:58:39 -0600
From:    "Heather Rigby (Goldeneyes)" <Z_RIGBYHA@t.......>
Subject: Farewells

Hi, guys.  Much to my regret, I'm going to have to leave the list for the
moment, maybe a while.  I'm staying on the fanfic list, just in case anything
breaks out, but school is driving me to distraction and I can't handle all b
this stuff anymore.  I'll be back when I can.

Farewell, mes amis,

Heather (Goldeneyes)(


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 08:45:47 -0500
From:    Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: Vampire pain

>Someone said that maybe Vamps only feel what can kill them...What if a
>gunshot, since it does not kill them, was only like a paper cut is to us?
>That, because it was not deadly, it really does not bother them.

Nick has been hit by gunshot a number of times, and reacts like he feels
more pain than a paper cut.  In NiQ, he reported feeling a "searing pain",
after being shot in the head.  In Outside the Lines, he crumpled after
being conked over the head with a bottle of wine.  It's conceivable that he
was faking it, except that when he got up, he was all vamped out, which
seems to be a typical, almost automatic, reaction for vamps when they're

On the other hand, Nick can smash through a window and feel no pain from all
those little shards of glass.

I think vampires can feel pain, but not as much as humans. Or maybe since
they heal so fast, the pain goes away so quickly that they just disregard
it, especially something so trivial as cuts from thousands of pieces of
glass.  Maybe those heal virtually immediately.

Margie (treeleaf@i.......)


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 09:59:22 +0100
From:    "Kennedy, Jean" <jkennedy@m.......>
Subject: Re: Name That Roman General

Lucius Spamus?
Lucius Qus Tipius?
Lucius Crux Avunculus?
Lucius Purplius Throngicus?

Why do I feel like I'm watching a Road Runner cartoon?

Cousin Jean <jkennedy@t.......>


Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1996 11:46:24 -0230
From:    Paula Hurley <phurley@b.......>
Subject: Light Cousins(was Re: LaCroix, Now & Then)

On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, AKR wrote:

>         Though the definition of Light Cousin is one who wishes to redeem
> LC, I don't think he's ready for that kind of change.  And I think that's
> good, from a dramatic standpoint.  A hero is only as interesting as his
> strongest foil; Nick is little without LC to struggle against.
Okay, now I have to say something on this one, being a Light Cousin like
you Amy, I can honestly say that this is most definitely not the reason I
am a Light Cousin. Actually I like LC just the way he is. My reasons are
more focussed on his personality. That is why I like BMV, AMPH, SoB, and
Fever, because we get to see so much more of LC's character instead of
his struggle with Nick. I like it when the show delves into LC's
character and shows us he has emotions. I agree he cares very much for
Nick, and that is where most of his emotions arise from, but I would like
to think he has a life beyond Nick.
        Umm hang on this kinda got of track from what I wanted to say.
        Trying again, in AMPH you see how much LC hates the idea of
lingering on after everyone else is dead(afraid to be left alone). I can't
put my finger on it, but just the way Nigel plays LC in the scene at Nick's
loft is phenomenal. In BMV you see he can indeed love. In SoB you see how much
he cares about Nick, whether it be possession or love. In Fever you see how he
cares for the community, etc.
        Anyways, what I mean by this monstosity is I most definitely
don't want to redeem LC, but I like his redeeming qualities. I don't
worship him either, and I have no intention of kissing his feet(that's
for the True Cousins to do), but I do like it when he does something
other than hound Nick about his search for *redemption*.

        I actually wrote this at 5 am, but got interrupted by my mother
getting up to go to work before I could send it, so if this sounds
completely mixed up, blame it on my lack of coherency due to
overtiredness. Something tells me I should also sleep with one eye open
for the next little while after that crack about the Cousins, I can just
see Candice with her little black book, taking notes for the next war!!(beg)

        One more thing all of the above are strictly my own opinions and do
not need to be taken seriously, others are more than welcome to their own
definitions, I actually relish the thought of hearing someone else's opinion.

Dark Knightie * Light Cousin * Valentine * Nick&NatPacker *
"It's ALWAYS about YOU!" - LaCroix(CRCH)
"Water, water everywhere, and not a drop to drink!" - LaCroix(CRCH)


End of FORKNI-L Digest - 21 Apr 1996 to 22 Apr 1996 - Special issue

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