FORKNI-L
Digest - 21 Apr 1996 - Special issue
Sun, 21 Apr 1996
There are 22 messages totalling 1008 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Encouraging Words (2)
2. Lacroix, Now & Then (5)
3. What is SKL? (3)
4. Excuse me
5. <No subject given>
6. discussion of actors
7. Dust from a filecabinet... (2)
8. Alyce and tactile senses
9. factions are fun (2)
10. Consider DSS for Sci-Fi channel
11. DK and Aging and Latin, Oh My!
12. LC's first season hair
13. Detroit Area Folk
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 01:20:23 -0700
From: Denise Underwood <ithildin@m.......>
Subject: Encouraging Words
I was at a social tonite where I had a chance to talk to an old friend
who I don't see often enough. She is retired now, but was a journalist
and editor. I was telling her about FK and what's been happening with
it. (turns out she watches the show!) Anyway, I mentioned reading on
the list that someone (sorry I forget who) had spoken to a Sony exec at
a party, and had been told that Sony was wondering if they had made the
right decision. She was thrilled, she told me that an admission like
that from a TV exec is something to be very hopeful about cause it sure
does not happen very often. She says these people are like elephants,
they are really hard and slow to turn around, but once you get them
moving in that direction..... She seems to think we are making a
difference,and to keep the pressure up, don't let them forget we are
here, the elephant is starting to turn.
On the subject of the list.. I to have only been here a few months, so I
don't know what it was like in the good old days. However, IMHO, I think
we have a great group of people here. I count alot of you as friends. I
have trouble posting things where I need to express my opinion, but
thats more my being shy than being afraid that I will get jumped on. I'm
sure once I see some first season eps and get a little braver I will
post more often (be very afraid!) This list is a great place, it would
be a shame to see us Balkanize to much. I've seen to much of that in
other fandoms, and I don't want to see it here.
I'll go away now, and try to be brave enough to press the "send" button!
Denise, The Cousinly Ravenette
ithildin@m.......
~Control, control, you must learn control!~ Yoda
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 04:37:37 -0400
From: Tigon Diana Hooker <TeigrLlew@a.......>
Subject: Re: Encouraging Words
This sorta touches on something I've been wanting to say
too. I am an extreme newbie, both to FK and the net. I've
only been on this list for a few days, in fact. I don't know
what happened last Saturday, nor do I know that I *want*
to. I've only skimmed some of the postings regarding it.
However, I do wish to say that I've really enjoyed my few
days here and am in fact having a great deal of fun. How
often do you get to come up with a Latin translation for
'Q-Tip?'
Tigon, Bouncing Tigger, Latin Translator, Insomniac
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 05:25:48 EDT
From: MS CHRISTINA L KAMNIKAR <VQRW76A@p.......>
Subject: Lacroix, Now & Then
Oooh, Dawn, start something flammable, why don't you. (And on the subject
of lurking & Wars; you are the same Dawn who got kidnapped, brainwashed,
tickled with feathers, and then attacked Nick and Lacroix during War 4,
right?) :)
*Long Post Alert! Character Dissection! Read at your own risk!*
Lacroix. I came in, as I've mentioned before, during the first
season, with LC buying it in the second half of Dark Knight, with no hint
that he would ever return. He wasn't a likeable guy during that episode,
but he wasn't the irredeemable nasty he was later painted to be. For a few
episodes we established Nick's character (Last Act, For I Have Sinned) and
then we got to see Lacroix again in, I think, Dance By the Light of the
Moon. The implications in that episode were very disturbing, since Nick's
seduction into darkness was brought about by Janette at Lacroix's
instigation (at least, it seemed that way at the time). The
underhandedness of this made Lacrox seem fairly evil, as well as the look
of fear on Nick's face during the fadeout from that scene.
You start hating Lacroix after CHERRY BLOSSOMS, where he again
screws up Nick's attempts at a cure, and kills someone trying to help his
son regain his mortality. Then there was DEAD AIR, not a terrific ep, and
it gave us that *lovely* torture scene, too. Watching his "ghost" taunt
Nick in FEEDING THE BEAST also built on my growing dislike. And then there
was LOVE YOU TO DEATH.
Mean, mean, mean. That's all that needs to be said. Cruel to
Nicholas, cruel to Sylvaine, manipulative, arrogant, harsh, judgemental..
this is where I started to hate Lacroix's guts. :) Nigel Bennet is such a
good actor. Never for one moment do you doubt that Lacroix is six chess
moves ahead of Nick almost every day of their lives; except that the man's
essential coldness doesn't allow him to predict what Nick will do when he's
hurt. He's so removed from those kind of reactions that it's possible to
believe that he just didn't see what anyone else could have told him: make
Nick feel *this* guilty, and you'll never get another card on Father's Day.
I missed Killer Instinct, and Father's Day, for a long time---the
next ep I got to see was FATE WORSE THAN DEATH. The last scene, with
Janette & Nick talking about living in captivity, simultaneously wrenches
your heart and makes you hate Lacroix even more. Then he's being his usual
demanding, superior, violent self in STRANGER THAN FICTION, killing someone
and leaving Nick to clean up te mess.
So when did I start cutting the character some slack?
After BE MY VALENTINE and A MORE PERMANENT HELL.
BMV first. The flashback romance is terrific. And the way it's tied
into the person LC is now is really, really well-done. Okay, maybe you
have to be a hopeless romantic like me to buy the premise, but it works.
You can forgive someone a lot if it seems that they've loved and lost and
are still suffering from that loss---no, it's not mentally healthy. No,
it's not Nick's fault that Fleur is gone, not really. Lacroix made the
choice to let her go. But while you're watching this episode, at least, it
seems like things could be so very different if he hadn't. And as much as
he makes Nick suffer, he's in a lot of pain too.
As for AMPH, this convinced me that yes, Lacroix was a despicable
person before he was a vampire. But it also showed how alien he's become,
simply by being alive after 2000 years. He's the baddest guy in the room---
and that makes him *really* alone. The man has no contemporaries. His
closest friends, his children, don't get along with him, and they're a
thousand years younger than he is. At his age, the phrase "mortals die"
isn't just self-evident, it's inescapable. He's still a creep. He's still
cold, distant, violent, selfish, self-centered, and manipulative. But after
watching this ep, you can almost feel sorry for him.
Third season, we got a better look after NIGHT IN QUESTION at his,
well... kind is stretching it, but maybe compassionate side is appropriate.
This continued in SONS OF BELIAL. He cares about Nick. He hates being
alone. He cares about the Vampire Community, in FEVER. But he's still
cruel. He's still jealous, especially of Natalie. Maybe killing Cal was in
character for him in FEVER, but showing Nat the body and trying to lay a
guilt trip on her was out of line. Gloating about Cal's death, after it's
obvious what the cure for the plague is, was heartless. Blowing off Nick's
feelings after he accidentally killed Alyssa (DEAD OF NIGHT), killing
Raleigh (BLIND FAITH) because he's close to Nick, and constantly trying to
undermine Nick's attempts at mortality, all point to someone with an
underlying obsession with control, as do his actions in FEVER.
He's still a rotten psychopathic vampire. But now I know *why*.
Now, if he would only *want* to change, I could almost buy it if he did.
If he cut Nick some slack. If he let up on Natalie. If he maybe, possibly,
admitted that humans have redeeming qualities other than music.
But he won't. :) And I'm not sorry. It wouldn't be the same show
without our representative from the Dark Side of the Force. Having
someone around to verbalize the worst aspects of the soul makes it easier
to admit they exist, but to keep trying to fight the darkness inside. For
Nick _and_ the audience.
End of too-in-depth dissection of what someone pointed out yesterday is
*just* a TV show. :P
Christina vqrw76a@p.......
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:50:42 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@o.......>
Subject: What is SKL?
Okay, obviously I missed something somewhere, because people keep talking
about SKL and I don't know what it is. And no, I'm not a newbie. I'm not
even a third season newbie. So someone please take pity on me and explain.
- Marina.
\\ "And tell me if you want to catch that feeling of redemption; //
// That feeling of redemption don't do much for me." - Tanita Tikaram \\
\\======Marina Bailey========tmar@f.......=======Dark Knightie======//
... Sometimes in life you have to do more than just watch.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:50:42 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@o.......>
Subject: Re: Lacroix, Now & Then
Christina gave a long, interesting post about LaCroix, all of it relevant.
However, I'll try to stick to the 4-line rule and only quote parts.
Vq> He's still a rotten psychopathic vampire. But now I know
Vq> *why*. Now, if he would only *want* to change, I could almost buy it if
Vq> he did. If he cut Nick some slack. If he let up on Natalie.
Have to disagree with this. I don't think LaCroix is rotten or psychopathic
at all. Now, this stems, I think, from the fact that "Father's Day" was the
first episode I saw, and Uncle was actually *nice* in that for a lot of the
time. I think that whatever LaCroix does is motivated by what he considers to
be the best thing for Nick (or Janette, or whomever). I can quite understand
his behaviour in "Love You to Death". We have to remember that LaCroix is a
vampire who likes being one. Nothing wrong with that. And because he likes
being one, he thinks Nick's attitude is downright silly. Since Nick refused
to listen to gentle persuasion, LaCroix has had to enact extreme measures.
Sure, really extreme to us, but maybe not all that extreme to a vampire.
So, he made Nick kill the ballet dancer. Heck, she was mortal, she was going
to die anyway.
LaCroix is motivated by the bests interests of himself and his children,
usually in that order. Oh, he can be extremely self-centred at times, but
that still doesn't make him rotten or psychotic. Going back to his mortal
life only proves this. When LaCroix let his army have its way with the women
of Gaul, it seems kind of shocking, but later he points out to Divia the
strategy he employed when he did that. Not that this makes it right, of
course, but it does make it *understandable* in the context of the time.
LaCroix always thinks strategy. We saw his strategy to get Nick to return to
the fold in the first season, and in some of the second. It seems to me that
when he realised that it wasn't working, he changed his tactics. Now he's
trying a less controlling approach, to see if this has any effect on Nick.
And *gasp* it seems to be working.
Vq> It wouldn't be the same show without our representative from the Dark
Vq> Side of the Force. Having someone around to verbalize the worst aspects
Vq> of the soul makes it easier to admit they exist, but to keep trying to
Vq> fight the darkness inside. For Nick _and_ the audience.
>From Nick's point of view, maybe LaCroix belongs to the Dark Side of the
Force. I personally think that LaCroix's worldview is *different* from
Nick's. And just because it's different doesn't make it wrong, or make Uncle
evil. I suppose this is why I'm a Dark Knightie - I *don't* think that being
a vampire is evil, or that biting people necessarily makes a vampire a
murderer (an argument for another time). Vampires are just different, that's
all. And Uncle is a most spectacular vampire.
- Marina, who also knows the difference between the actor and the character,
who adores Nick, loves Ger, really likes Uncle and knows that Uncle refers
to LaCroix, not Nigel. Oh, and who would adore Nigel, too, if she'd seen him
in anything else!
\\ "And tell me if you want to catch that feeling of redemption; //
// That feeling of redemption don't do much for me." - Tanita Tikaram \\
\\======Marina Bailey========tmar@f.......=======Dark Knightie======//
... Gotta run, cat's caught in the printer
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 06:12:49 -0500
From: Lady Sushi <phoenix@i.......>
Subject: Re: What is SKL?
>Okay, obviously I missed something somewhere, because people keep talking
>about SKL and I don't know what it is. And no, I'm not a newbie. I'm not
>even a third season newbie. So someone please take pity on me and explain.
>- Marina.
It's the Saturday Knight Live list, created for general silliness, and
discussions for which you'd be permanently removed from FORKNI-L (one that
came up earlier this morning involves using GOdiva raspberry-filled starfish
instead of the infamous thong, and NIck+MAgic Shell ice cream topping). It
was created after the online party last weekend, and has apparently stolen
most of FORKNI-L's traffic. Very fun, very goofy, primary realm of the Cold
Shower Sisterhood. Dear, sweet, wonderful,
really-deserves-something-nice-for-Listmommies'-Day-hint-hint-all Jamie set
it up.
Any more questions?
Cousin "Susan" Phoenix * Camera Fanatic of the Thong Throng
Charter Unnamed * Member of the Cold Shower Sisterhood * SKLed
phoenix@i.......
**Faciemus ut Dewus Mountainus e Tuo Nasone Exeat!**
"Hey, Marines! The Chicago Cubs suck!" ~~ The Chigs, S:AaB
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 04:18:19 -0700
From: Swordsister <catheboo@c.......>
Subject: Re: Lacroix, Now & Then
On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, MS CHRISTINA L KAMNIKAR wrote:
> Oooh, Dawn, start something flammable, why don't you. (And on the subject
Tsk, tsk, Christina. And following up with such an in-depth response.
I'm forced to respond, against my will! :)
I think I'll just take this step by step, as I saw things. I guess I
should say first that I came in at... darnit, now I can't remember the
name. Anyway, the one before The Fix, and had nothing of LC in it. So
basically I started with The Fix and BMV.
In The Fix, here's a guy who seems to be genuinely (if sarcastically)
worried about Nick, and doesn't want him to grow old, die, etc. He
doesn't understand this need to become mortal, and sees it as
self-destructive. So of course he's going to go to great lengths to make
sure his friend doesn't kill himself. That, plus BMV showed a person who
was normally a relentless and unforgiving soul, yet still knows the
meaning of kindness and love. Which is worse, to never know such things
at all, or to know them only a little while, never to return? Dunno
'bout you, but I *liked* Lacroix, for a long time.
So when I got the opportunity to watch the first and second seasons, I'd
already kind of had a picture in my mind, and therefore gave Lacroix
oodles and oodles of slack, always. And 90% of the time, his cruel
gestures are just him taking any and all measures he can to make sure
Nick doesn't become mortal, and to try to convince him that it's a bad
idea. Because above all else, LC wants Nick to live. He can grow out
of this mortal phase, he can love LC or hate him as he chooses, but he'd
better darn well be alive to do it! That's the bottom line to most of
the things he does. And while I disagree with most of his methods, and
think he could have done things better to get the same results, I can't
fault his motive.
And then, as you say :), there was Love You To Death, the Sylvaine ep.
This remains my highest volume sock ep outside of DK. I absolutely
despised LC's methods, even though I still understood his motives
completely. He knew that Nick's fascination for Sylvaine was only going
to make him suffer more when his little bubble shattered. But the way he
handled it... bleah! Messy messy messy. The situation was mangled and
bungled beyond repair, and it ended up blowing up in LC's face in the
end, big time. Ugh, ugh, ugh. It still bugs me. If he'd just kept his
yap shut just a little longer, he coulda had Nick eating out of his
hand...
Yes, I know, I'm a Knightie that talks like a Cousin. You get used to
it. :)
No, I really liked (and still like) Lacroix. But, like all the
characters, he has one humongous flaw. Every once in a while, LC's
frustration over all this mess gets the better of him, and he lashes out
for no apparent reason at all. And *that*, imo, is when he gets cruel.
The rest is just education, the old fashioned way. "Spare the rod, spoil
the child," and all that.
Yes, he's manipulative. He doesn't even try to hide it. Yes, he's a
control freak. I think I would be too, if I had a child who liked to
play in the middle of the street every time he was left alone. ;)
Oh, and as far as BMV and romantic natures go...: One more hopeless,
hapless, helpless romantic present and accounted for! :)
> character for him in FEVER, but showing Nat the body and trying to lay a
> guilt trip on her was out of line. Gloating about Cal's death, after it's
Well, I think he blamed Nat, being the paragon of Modern Science, for the
disease in the first place. Besides, to say that he was really pissed
off at the world in general is like saying the Mona Lisa is a blotch on
the wall.
> obvious what the cure for the plague is, was heartless. Blowing off Nick's
Well, he's definitely got a serious problem with seeing mortals as
people. That's a given. But still, an understandable reaction to
someone who has to kill them for a living, no matter what his original
inclinations were on the matter.
> feelings after he accidentally killed Alyssa (DEAD OF NIGHT), killing
> Raleigh (BLIND FAITH) because he's close to Nick, and constantly trying to
Having just watched that ep, I think I can lump these two together as
being part of his little control freak attitude. He can't let anyone
come into Nick's life that could possibly draw him away from LC. Janette
is all right, because LC can manipulate her as well as he can Nick. But
anyone else is received as an implicit threat to their happiness. Has he
stuck around with Divia? No, he took off and made his own companions.
But I think he had Nick in mind to be a permanent companion since Nick
was brought across, and he realized that if Nick ever made any children,
he would be more likely to leave himself and Janette, and live with his
own children. This could be very likely the underlying reason why Nick
and Janette have had such bad records creating children: Lacroix may be
subtly making sure (however he can, I don't pretend to know if it's all
mental or physical or what) that they aren't able to, or not very
successfully.
Don't you love it when a neato thought like that comes to you just at the
right time to share? Anyway, it's a possibility.
> undermine Nick's attempts at mortality, all point to someone with an
> underlying obsession with control, as do his actions in FEVER.
Underlying... screaming out and pounding you over the head with a large
sledgehammer... same difference. :)
> He's still a rotten psychopathic vampire. But now I know *why*.
> Now, if he would only *want* to change, I could almost buy it if he did.
Ah, but why would he want to change? I like rotten psychopaths. Most of
my *friends* are rotten psychopaths. There's a place for them in this
world. :)
> But he won't. :) And I'm not sorry. It wouldn't be the same show
> without our representative from the Dark Side of the Force. Having
Ah, but that's the beauty of FK! As much as the characters want to
believe it, there is no good, and there is no evil. (There is only
Zool? No.) There are only people. (Ah. Much better.)
> End of too-in-depth dissection of what someone pointed out yesterday is
> *just* a TV show. :P
Yeah, and we're just normal people, and this is just a mailing list, and
I'm just sitting on my bum in front of the computer screen. All very true.
And all very much beyond the point. Next? :)
Catherine
---------------------------------------------------------------
Catherine Boone catheboo@c.......
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with
themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon." - H. L. Mencken
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 09:06:12 -0400
From: Jill Marie Spetoskey <jilkey@u.......>
Subject: Re: Excuse me
On Sat, 20 Apr 1996, TORREY L HARRIS wrote:
>
> I want silly....I need silly....I demand silly! A good debate would be
> nice too <G>.
>
Okay, pretty much everyone knows about Q-Tips. But are they the fluffier
Johnson & Johnson type or the thinner private label store brand? (And if
so, can we still call them Q-Tips because it may be trademarked for the
fluffier product? And how does Tracy's cat fit into this?)
Jill Marie
jilkey@u.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 06:16:55 -0700
From: Jackie <ejdjd@i.......>
Subject: <No subject given>
Hubby found this for me
The Pros and Cons of Dating a Vampire
Author: Peter Shipley
Pro Con
Long relationships Spend your time in a hypnotic daze
Allowed to stay out late Parents can be hell
Easy weight loss You always feel tired (loss of blood)
Centuries of experience Oral sex can be lethal
Immune to all venereal diseases Always has cold feet (and blood)
Always has amazing stamina Never able to spend the day in bed
Loves neck nibbling Pet names that give you chills
Rarely interested in arguing religion Strange friends
Never comes home with garlic breath Giggles at funerals
Don't have to worry about what color Hard to win an argument
of clothes to wear. No romantic sunsets
May forget own strength during orgasm
NOW: let's see how we can apply this to Forever Knight:
A 90 year relationship that ended on a sour note -
More short-term relationships with an emphasis on *short*
Centuries of flashbacks!
Immune to everything except "Fever"
Romantic Sunrises
Brothers can be hell
Always spending the *entire* day in bed!
"A whole new meaning to the definition of 'old friends'"
Lips crusted with dried blood
Clothes crusted with dried blood - hell on the washing machine!
Instant rejuvenation - wouldn't the cosmetic companies love to get their
hands on it!
Jackie
Support your local Attorney....Send your kid to Medical School!
ejdjd@i.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 09:17:54 CST
From: "OREL, SARA" <FA55@n.......>
Subject: discussion of actors
I have not responded to tenor of the list posts until now (late in the
semester and I simply don't have the time, and a new episode is next
week! I have my priorities straight!), but I did want to say that there
have recently been several posts discussing the weight of the actors and
whether they have put on a few pounds or are overweight. I joined the
list two years ago and at the time some people were insisting on
discussing the subject, over list-owner's warning and they were set
no-mail (some permanently?). This discussion of people's weight seems
to me rather uncomfortable and unnecessary. It has not become nasty or
insulting yet (when it came up two years ago, that was clearly the
point), but not all of us are as thin as we should be, let alone thinner
than we should be, and I really would hope you think very carefully
before talking about actors' weight.
By the way, the impression I got was that the vests second
season for Nick were not that the actor who played him had put on
weight, but a decision from the wardrobe department. There was a lot of
grumbling on the list that he looked awfully geeky and great rejoicing
when they were gone after last year. I don't know where the initial
information came from, but we certainly heard that "costume department
decision" last year with great regularity.
Besides, who says that anyone who didn't necessarily have a lot of
clothes to choose from when he was alive will have developed a really
fine fashion sense after 800 years?
Janette probably had one when she was alive...
Sara Orel
FA55%nemomus@a.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:12:08 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Dust from a filecabinet...
Now you guys are in for it.
Actors and their bodytypes...
IMHO, the far more appealing aspect of any person is their character. Don't
get me wrong, the picture of GWD that has become my Windows Wallpaper is NOT
hard on the eyes (and you wouldn't believe all the 'Who's the gorgeaous guy?'
remarks when others see my screen for the first time:) ), and I am going to
the Gerthering in June. Nick is appealing to me, most of us, I expect because
we identify with him and find his moral fiber, while not always spotless,
something we can agree with. We like his character.
About GWD. I've never met the man. Can't say I'd like him, can't say I
wouldn't. I'm in his debt for his portrayal of Nick and any other role that I
may see and that impacts me. He is an actor. Going in June has two purposes
for me. 1) To give GWD an 'at-a-boy', we all need these, often. 2) To meet
and get a sense of his character, from what I hear from others, I will not be
disappointed. NO, I do not hope he is the perfect person. NO, I do not want
to be a part of his life. NO, I do not expect that he should even meet my
expectations (to say that we don't have any is to be dishonest in the
EXTREME). I'd just like to think that this man, who I hope will have a long
and successful career, for purely selfish reasons, I might add, is a 'nice'
guy. It makes my thought of him, well, easier. That's it. I'm not a stalker.
I'm not God. Just another human being with a whole truck load of my own flaws
and frailties.
BTW, did I mention that looking at his picture was by no means hard on my
eyes? Good...
The TONE of the list...
Well, I've had my say about my philosophy on this matter. Thought I might
just reinterate a brief point:
A Simple Manefesto--
If you've offended, apologize. If you've been offended, forgive. If there is
a right, report it. If there is a wrong, try to help correct it. If in doubt,
give the benefit of the doubt. When you are happy, laugh and share. When you
are sad, cry and share. When you can, console. When you can't, pray.
People are people. Basically diverse and often flawed. But, most often they
are genuine, caring individuals. The members of this list give it it's
character. And I, if I didn't like the character of the list, would no longer
be here. It takes a one line post to unsub. That's it. I will and have made
mistakes, if you haven't already noticed. I'll make more. But, hey, you're
reading me, right now, and it's not so hard on you, is it? Good. I'm glad. I
have no other intention but to connect with you. To communicate with you, for
this all too brief moment. That's why any of us are here. Well, that and the
picture of GWD that's not hard on my eyes to look at...
About LaCroix...
I don't think that LaCroix IS evil. Just from another planet. Jupiter maybe,
or Saturn. Not Mars, definitely not Mars, I'm from there and I can tell
you...
About Thongs, Ribena, SKL, and the like...
Situational humor is a good thing. Inside jokes make us all feel as if we
belong. It's important to feel as if we belong. We found this list because of
our similar interests. Period. The Thong Throng, the Bartender's Club, the
SKL crew all are individuals who need, honestly, to have something in common
with each other. It makes the day better when we laugh, and when those who
laugh with us truly understand what we think is so funny. It makes the
universe we live make sense. If you don't get the joke, or the humor is not
to you're liking, don't be dismayed, tell us one of your favorites. Let us
share your sense of humor with you. You just might find that we are a pretty
good bunch...dispite ourselves. :)=
Had enough yet?...
Okay, almost done.
Last note... (I hear the cheers from the back!)
I'm here to stay folks, God willing and the creek don't rise. Get used to the
idea. I hope that it's not an idea that is hard on you. Your presence here is
NOT hard on me. It is why I come back, day after day. Because you are here.
Did I mention that the picture of GWD I use for wallpaper is NOT hard on my
eyes?
:)=
Carrie, Proud Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 08:30:18 -0700
From: Jackie <ejdjd@i.......>
Subject: Re: Dust from a filecabinet...
At 11:12 AM 4/21/96 -0400, Carrie wrote:
>Now you guys are in for it.
I will and have made mistakes, if you haven't already noticed. I'll make more.
US????? Notice mistakes????? Naaaaah----no such thing as mistakes on
*this* list! Now, if you were talking about the *spoiler* list....that, I
could see! But here, nobody makes mistakes.
Errors in judgement, if you will, or excesses of enthusiasm, or even
faux pas! But, never, never, never, mistakes!
That's it---I'm leaving ---it is too nice a day to stay indoors and
listen to people, no matter how much I like 'em! :) :) :)
Cheers!
How many mortals does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
I don't know; three so far! *slurp*
Jackie
Support your local Attorney....Send your kid to Medical School!
ejdjd@i.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:31:04 -0400
From: Lisa Anne Prince <Moonlight@g.......>
Subject: Re: Lacroix, Now & Then
Hey, Hey All :) Great discussion!
I started watching with STF and will admit that I found LaCroix
intriguing even then.
So, here's my questions for all of those that have responded or
feel like responding to this thread.
I've always felt that LaCroix, at the heart of it all, is very
lonely. His constant attempts to get Nick to accept him and stay
with him are, to me, the actions of someone who is very much afraid
of being left alone. For example, in Father's Day at the very end
when Nick brings the pocket watch to him at the station, he gets
this happy smile on his face. I think that it's the only time
we've actually seen LaCroix with a happy smile rather than a wicked
one. Anyway, when Nick says, "I'm not coming back to you. I just
wanted to say thank you." It's like all of his happiness and his
hope is taken away.
And then in AMPH, LaCroix says that he wants what he's always
wanted from Nick -- companionship. He even goes so far as to say
that vampires are nothing without the existence of humans.
>In The Fix, here's a guy who seems to be genuinely (if
>sarcastically) worried about Nick, and doesn't want him to grow
>old, die, etc. He doesn't understand this need to become mortal,
>and sees it as self-destructive.
Oh, most definitely. During the scene in Nick's apartment when he
steps into the sunlight, I got the distinct impression that if Nick
succeeded in becoming human, LaCroix would have followed him
(either by becoming human himself or following him into the
sunlight as a vampire). What did you guys think?
>Yes, I know, I'm a Knightie that talks like a Cousin. You get
>used to it. :)
Yeah, and I'm a Cousin who's telling everyone that she thinks that
LaCroix is a pathetic lonely old man ;) Okay, I'm not actually
going that far, let's just say that I don't see LaCroix as a wicked
evil character.
>Yes, he's manipulative. He doesn't even try to hide it. Yes,
>he's a control freak.
I really think that this all goes back to the idea that he is
grasping on to Nick in an attempt to stave off the lonliness that
is at the heart of his existence. Before Janette and Nick, who did
he have? If there was no one, that would mean that he was alone
for 1,000 years. Personally, I'd be a bit of a leech if I'd been
alone for that long too.
>Oh, and as far as BMV and romantic natures go...: One more
>hopeless, hapless, helpless romantic present and accounted for! :)
Add me to that list. "That a cold, still heart could feel such
pain." No words for a line like that <sigh>
>> character for him in FEVER, but showing Nat the body and trying
>>to lay a guilt trip on her was out of line.
Actually, I always thought that he did that to draw a parallel to
her search for a cure for Nick. The search for a cure for AIDS
ends up causing Cal's death, might not the search for a cure for
vampirism end up causing Nick's death?
Back to you guys :)
Mercenary Cousin Lisa
I'm sorry, the Lisa you have requested is not available at this
time, please hang up or dial one for a list of alternate Lisas.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:46:57 -0400
From: Jane Credland <janes@i.......>
Subject: Re: Lacroix, Now & Then
At 12:31 PM 4/21/96 -0400, Lisa Anne Prince wrote:
I started watching with Dark Knight (okay, with Nick Knight, but given the
actor they cast in that movie, it hardly counts in any discussion of LaCroix)
>I've always felt that LaCroix, at the heart of it all, is very
>lonely. His constant attempts to get Nick to accept him and stay
>with him are, to me, the actions of someone who is very much afraid
>of being left alone.
I'm with Lisa on this one. For centuries, LaCroix had a nuclear family in
Janette and Nick. With a few exceptions, they travelled together most of
the time. In the last hundred years (which must not be a very long time
when you're 2,000 or so), this has changed. Nick spends all his time trying
to run away, and Janette pays lip service to LaCroix but then goes out and
does what she wants.
IMHO, LaCroix wants his family back. He wants Nick and Janette to return to
the fold. All of his machinations are designed with this purpose. They are
not designed to hurt and damage; although these are sometimes side effects
of his actions.
>steps into the sunlight, I got the distinct impression that if Nick
>succeeded in becoming human, LaCroix would have followed him
>(either by becoming human himself or following him into the
>sunlight as a vampire). What did you guys think?
I don't think LaCroix would become human or step into the sunlight. LaCroix
does not strike me as the suicidal type. He might, however, travel to the
Balkans or the Middle East and indulge in a murderous rampage. I'm sure his
victims can be easily hidden or disguised in a war zone.
>her search for a cure for Nick. The search for a cure for AIDS
>ends up causing Cal's death, might not the search for a cure for
>vampirism end up causing Nick's death?
Seems to me that, one way or another, Nick's death is the inevitable result
of the search for a cure for vampirism. If they succeed, then he will
become mortal and die. If they do not, the law of averages says that one or
another of the experiments is bound to have some vicious side effects.
After all, they can't test out the drugs on anyone else but Nick. Unless he
brings across a few lab rats -- which would put a whole new twist on the
animal experimentation problem.
Jane (janes@i.......)
Raven ** Immortal Beloved
Writing is easy -- just stare at the page until your forehead
bleeds (G. Horvath)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:49:38 -0500
From: D Echelbarger <gryphon@e.......>
Subject: Re: Alyce and tactile senses
Dawn asked:
>Alyce.
>The one who became a vampire in DKII.
>The one who was never seen again.
>-Just what happened to her after DKII?
My theory-- she went off with LaCroix. That's why we didn't see him for a full
season-- he was off teaching his latest fledgling the ropes. As for where she
is now... probably working at another museum, as night curator. And she's
probably very happy. :)
Of course, I never thought Alyce was stupid. Lacking in common sense, maybe,
but she's got plenty of smarts. After all, she *was* asst. curator at a museum.
Yes, she was stupid to run after a man she thought was a vampire, after dark,
but I think that was a conflict between her *intellectual* knowledge that Nick
*might* be a vampire, and her scientifically trained subconsious, which told her
vampires are *fables*. That's why she was so calm, *until* she saw Nick vamp
out in the slaughterhouse. It's like a classic, stereotypical redneck who *says*
he thinks blacks are just as good as he is... until his daughter brings her
African-American fiance home from college-- and he has to face a reality that
was, until then, purely theoretical. Alyce (and my stereotypical redneck) was
suffering from a sort of mental whiplash. <g>
Just IMHO, of course.
Amy asked:
>All vampire senses are heightened, right? But FK vampires almost *never* feel
>pain; <snip> And we operate on the assumption that vampires don't feel cold,
>right? So does this mean that the vampire tactile sense is in fact *dulled*
>instead of heightened?
Not necessarily. (If I get this next part wrong, I'm sure the medical types out
there will correct me. :) See, the nerve receptors for pain are different from
the receptors for heat or cold. And all of those are different from the
'pressure' receptors, that tell us textures and such. So, it's possible a
vampire's pain, cold and heat receptors are set on "low", but the textile
(read-- texture & pressure) receptors are at normal.
Diane E
# D Echelbarger gryphon@e....... #
# WWW HomePage: http://www.execpc.com/~echelbar/ #
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 13:00:47 -0400
From: Tigon Diana Hooker <TeigrLlew@a.......>
Subject: Re: What is SKL?
Yes, one more question...how does one subscribe to this
list?
For that matter, how does one subscribe to the spoiler list?
Tigon the Bouncing Tigger
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 13:04:42 -0400
From: Lisa Wolters <MVRJasper@a.......>
Subject: factions are fun
Just a quick reponse to Allison's post about how factions/affiliations are
mostly fun and we (Me!!) shouldn't be implying that all they do is divide us,
etc., etc.
Agreed, 100%! When taken as they *should* be taken, affiliations most
definitely are fun. Heck, in the last War, I got to poke LaCroix in the butt
with Leitovuterine-C while Dianne hypnotized him into thinking he was Luke,
the Vampire DJ from Brooklyn. Now, *that* was fun! :)
The trouble is that a lot of folks seem to think that your affiliation is an
extension of you as a human being, and that just because you affiliate
yourself with a particular faction for *fictional characters*, that that in
some way affects your ability to understand how other *real people* who
belong to other ficitional factions feel about emotions, issues, etc., in the
*real world*.
I *like* the affiliations when they're taken in the spirit they were
intended. And we couldn't do away with 'em now even if we tried (and Susan
would likely hunt us all down and stab us with the little pins stuck to those
foam-core bottons if we did try... <g>). I guess it all just comes down to
that fantasy vs. reality thing.
Lisa W. * MVRJasper@a.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 10:22:21 -0600
From: Gay Eckes <raven>
Subject: Consider DSS for Sci-Fi channel
Howdy folks!
Haven't heard from me lately? Here's why.
I've been trying to get cable for months. Seems I'm on a large older piece
of property that hasn't been wired yet. Even with lots of new development
within a couple of blocks, still nothing close enough for a cheap hook-up
charge. Then my brother bought a cable subscription for our parents (they
live 5 miles away), and I was amazed to find out that it is costing him
about $50.00 a month for an extended basic package plus 2 premium channels.
The cable is TCI, and they don't carry the Sci-Fi channel in this part of
the county (but will *real soon*). So I started looking at the small
satellite dish systems--halfheartedly, as I thought they were too expensive.
To my surprise, they *aren't* that expensive! Seems there is
second-generation equipment out now, and the first generation stuff has
dropped in price several hundred dollars. Also used equipment can be found,
as people upgrade. Even some companies that lease the stuff to you for about
the same cost as cable.
Anyway, I maxed out the ol' credit card and got a Sony DSS. Installed it
myself, and now have Sci-Fi and many other beautiful channels. Saw/heard FK
in *stereo* on USA last week (run audio cables from the DSS receiver to
stereo system, and turn down the TV volume). The cost of the (smallest)
programming package that includes Sci-Fi is about $15 per month. My
equipment costs plus programming, look to equal my brother's cable cost
after about a year. And I get more channels, better reception and more
flexible programming choices (and own the equipment).
For those interested, more DSS info here:
http://www.dbs.digifix.com/DBS/index.html
http://ilab.com/prosp9.htm
For a picture of one of the *worst* functioning DSS do-it-yourself installations
(yes, mine is better than this!) look here: http://ilab.com/list9/rca.gif
FK appears to be scheduled *twice* for tomorrow evening on Sci-Fi, 6 and
10pm. Can I tape for someone?
Doin' an end-run around TCI . . .
Gay Eckes raven@r....... gdeckes@i....... gdeckes@c.......
>> Life's too short . . . <<
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 13:01:55 EDT
From: Lisa Filia Davidi <D020214@u.......>
Subject: DK and Aging and Latin, Oh My!
Ok, I'm sitting at my computer on Sunday afternoon, feeling silly.
I once explained LaCroix's white hair in the first season as resulting
from something he did after drinking from a sky-high hippy in the 1960's.
Then there's also the possibility that he took to dying it to what Nigel
once described (talking about his own hair color) as "its lovely natural
mouse" after realizing that it's much easier to spot a vampire who's watching
you if he has fluorescent white hair. <veg>
I think I like the first two seasons' LaCroix about equally. The Lacroix
of the first half of this season was something I hated. My theory was that
he went on a prolonged drunk after Janette left.
In some mythos's vampires have some control over how they look. Maybe
Nick lost his ability to look really young as Nat's treatments began
to work? As for LaCroix's looking even older, well, if Janette's departure
drove him to drink, maybe Nick's behavior drove him to feeling even older
than 2000? <Really eg>
Roman women's names in Lucius's time took the nomen (which is the middle
element, like Julius in Gaius Julius Caesar), plus a first name which
might be the feminine of the father's, and might or might not include
the feminine of the father's cognomen (last element or elements, the
Caesar in Gaius Julius Caesar.) So, assuming "Qus" is an indeclinable
noun, we get something like Lucia Qus Tipia, whom I visualize as a tough
old lady with white hair and a battle axe. :)
Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble."
Lisa McDavid
mcdavid-lisa@s.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 13:13:55 -0400
From: Tigon Diana Hooker <TeigrLlew@a.......>
Subject: Re: factions are fun
By the way, how does one join a particular faction?
Tigon the Bouncing Tigger
hopeless newbie at large
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 13:19:26 -0400
From: Deborah Menikoff <menikoff@p.......>
Subject: LC's first season hair
Lisa writes (in regadrs to LC's hair):
>I once explained LaCroix's white hair in the first season as resulting
>from something he did after drinking from a sky-high hippy in the 1960's.
and a darned good explaination it was too. :-)
>Then there's also the possibility that he took to dying it to what Nigel
>once described (talking about his own hair color) as "its lovely natural
>mouse" after realizing that it's much easier to spot a vampire who's watching
>you if he has fluorescent white hair. <veg>
I loved LC's first season hair. <g> It was darned near radioactive and on
some of my mushy Canadian eps, it's sometimes the only thing I can see
clearly. It bathes everyone in the scene with an unearthly sort of... glow
>I think I like the first two seasons' LaCroix about equally. The Lacroix
>of the first half of this season was something I hated. My theory was that
>he went on a prolonged drunk after Janette left.
Hmmm...Lisa, didn't you also explain some of Janette's behaviour with a
"prolonged drunk". Not that it doesn't make *perfect* sense <g> but it seems
that we should be starting an 12 step vampire program for these kids.
>to work? As for LaCroix's looking even older, well, if Janette's departure
>drove him to drink, maybe Nick's behavior drove him to feeling even older
>than 2000? <Really eg>
Oh absolutely. Just think. If you'd listened to someone moan and groan about
the state of their existance for as long as Nick has been moaning and groan
(and complaining and angsting and moing and..<g>.) you'd look older too.
Also, perhaps Nick was not as "off" with that stake in DK as we thought.
Near staking could take alot out of a vamp.
Cousin Deborah (menikoff@p.......)
Keeper of PorCroix, the Vampire Pig
"Questions? Comments? Hitmen?"
http://www.cup.org/people/homepages/djm/page.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 13:26:23 -0400
From: Jennifer Dukarski <DUKARSJA@u.......>
Subject: Re: Detroit Area Folk
** Proprietary **
All right, I'm still a newbie, but you have to get your feet wet
somehow, right?
I see posts from folks looking for get-togethers in certain areas and
was wondering...
Any Detroit area people out there?
Jenn Dukarski
Dukarsja@u.......
"If you lose Hope, then all is lost... and I haven't seen her all
day." RJK
------------------------------
End of FORKNI-L Digest - 21 Apr 1996 - Special issue
****************************************************
Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
