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FORKNI-L Digest - 24 Oct 2004 to 25 Oct 2004 (#2004-296)

Mon, 25 Oct 2004

There are 19 messages totalling 548 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Fwd: Re: [FORKNI-L] Subject lines in Forkni posts
  2. story label debate
  3. Story found!
  4. Story types -- do we really need labels? (2)
  5. Saint Nicholas (3)
  6. FK Moment
  7. FK moment (kinda)
  8. Episode Six linked in
  9. Admin: Forkni-l Rules
 10. Fwd: TVShowsOnDVD.com - News for Forever Knight (2)
 11. Season 2--It's oficial!
 12. Admin: Apology to Deborah Hymon
 13. Why we have an Adult header on Fkfic-l
 14. Labelling stories by faction
 15. Admin: Possible solution, was Re: Labelling stories by faction

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:53:30 -0700
From:    Laurie of the Isles <laudon1228@y......>
Subject: Fwd: Re: [FORKNI-L] Subject lines in Forkni posts

Sorry, my first sending of this went only to Mary
Combs

-- mary combs <combsm@e.......> wrote:

> Fellow forkni-ers, let's all please be careful not
> to post messages with
> blank subject lines.

A number of recent posts are missing not only subject
lines but signatures.

As for faction labels, my take is: McLisa has spoken.

This horse is dead.



=====
Laurie of the Isles
<Laudon1228@y......>
http://www.livejournal.com/users/1_mad_squirrel/
Do not meddle in the affairs of vampires, for you are a
walking juice box and would fit nicely in Nick's trunk.


------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:42:57 -0700
From:    Aviva Blumenthal <viv11374@y......>
Subject: story label debate

May I suggest that people do what I do if they think they aren't
going to like a story? That being, I simply don't finish it!
Nobody forces you to finish what you start reading, you know if
you don't have the desire to do so, and if it's time you lack,
you can go back to it later. But don't hamstring writers who
don't even lnow what faction they're writing in.

=====


------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:00:56 -0400
From:    Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......>
Subject: Story found!

Thanks to those who told me where to find "Out of the Silence".  Not
quite as satisfying as the first two:  the detective investigation of
the unnoticed dangling ends of Nick/Nat's lives was fascinating.  But I
wouldn't want to have missed the end of the trilogy.

Greer

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:21:01 -0400
From:    allison <smilewithviolets@n.......>
Subject: Re: Story types -- do we really need labels?

from Libs:>>>What
may be classified as "silly" to someone may be a serious or satire story to
someone else. <<<<

Chiming in. I tend to agree that the author's take on a story can be
different from the readers. I recently submitted a fic to my writing
workshop and the very first comment from someone was, "That was so
funny.".... *blank stare* - it was a horror story w/ some black humor - I
didn't intend for the humor to override everything.

In my FK fic I try to tell readers the characters who appear (as I myself
surf for N/LC or LC) and if there is any extreme violence or adult content.
I think it's just being considerate. Though, I would not go as far to label
genre or the faction to whom the story would appeal - because this is
subjective. :)

Allison
Unnamed Cousin
smilewithviolets@n.......
"Play with us forever in creepy
eternity. Here you are loved."

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Oct 2004 23:22:08 -0400
From:    Julia Poyer <Vesta4ever@a.......>
Subject: Saint Nicholas

<lurk><lurk><lurk><DELURK!!!!>

  I'm taking a literature class called Saints & Fools which examines the Holy
Fool as a figure in literature and how it has translated into modern
entertainment.  We looked at the movie Pretty Woman and talked about what qualities made
Julia Roberts' character holy.  So, of course, I started thinking about FK and
whether Nick wasn't a saint in his own way.
  He is an outsider by nature of his vampirism, which automatically removes him
from the mundane, and endows him with a divine quality.
  He denies himself the pleasure of killing humans, a sacrifice which brings
him closer to the divine, and he works to save others.
  He is always struggling with the evil in him and in others, and that very
battle, the fact that he has to work so much harder to control his natural urges,
makes him holier than every day people.  I'm not sure, because I don't have my
tapes with me, but I think the episode with the author was called Stranger Than
Fiction.  In it, the author (don't remember her name) talks about a vampire's
battle between good and evil being more palpable than a human's which ultimately
makes the vampire MORE human.  I disagree.  This battle of wills doesn't make
Nick more human, it makes him more divine, a kind of saint, and therefore
removed from humanity.
  In the end, Nick becomes a martyr (if you are willing to accept that he
actually died; I know many of us would like to ignore that episode!)

Thoughts on this?  Agree?  Disagree?
<looks around, notices she is visible to the list, and quickly ducks back out
of sight, into the shadows where she lurks, waiting...>
Julia

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:21:46 -0700
From:    FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@y......>
Subject: FK Moment

I had the radio on during the ride home from church,
and an ad for blood donation came on that started out
with something about "with all those vampires running
around, there's a blood shortage" and my first thought
was "Aren't the Enforcers doing their job anymore?"
lol.

Ok a minor FK moment, but still funny.

Mel

=====
The trouble with immortality is that it tends to go on forever-Herb Cain
NickNatpacker,Knightie,Knight of the Cross;Duncan, Tessa and Joe flags-waver,
Dueser,Fan of Buffy and Angel's true and undying love for one another
http//:groups.yahoo.com/group/Buffy_the_dark_world BTVS AU rpg


------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 02:39:45 EDT
From:    Dory Blankenship <DORY12485@a.......>
Subject: FK moment (kinda)

While waithing around for math class to begin the other day, I got caught in
the middle of a conversation about sports between a classmate and the
professor.  Ususally I tune out at such conversations, but somthing the
classmate said caught my ear:
"But that Bennett kid went to L.A...."
I immediately giggled, and told him about Mr. Bennett and LCA being in L.A..
Just wanted to share!
AgapePhilos,
Dory.
Faith.  Pure, simple faith. - Jeanne d'Arc, FIHS

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 02:36:51 -0700
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y......>
Subject: Re: Saint Nicholas

Hmmm... interesting thoughts.  I guess a lot of it depends on how you define
'human', 'divinity', and 'saint'.  In my religion, we believe that everyone
carries within them the seeds of divinity, by virtue of being children of God, and
that our purpose on earth is to develop those qualities, making each of us a
potential 'saint'.

>He is an outsider by nature of his vampirism, which automatically removes him
>from the mundane, and endows him with a divine quality.

A very Catholic sentiment (nothing against Catholics), but since he is not an
'outsider' by choice or consequence of his beliefs, but rather by force of his
nature, I'm not sure it counts.  On the other hand, you could say that he is an
outsider from vampiric society (which *is* his choice based on his values), and
that shunning of evil company could be counted in his favor.

>He denies himself the pleasure of killing humans, a sacrifice which brings him
>closer to the divine, and he works to save others.  He is always struggling
>with the evil in him and in others, and that very battle, the fact that he has
>to work so much harder to control his natural urges, makes him holier than
>every day people.

I don't know about this.  I have a friend who has trouble with alcohol.  Does
the fact that he manages to resist the temptation make him more sober than other
people?  No, it just means that he's managing to pull himself out of the pit he
dug.  Remember that, seduced or not, Nick brought the situation upon himself.
That he is now facing up to the consequences is admirable, but I wouldn't call
it 'holy'.  If you took that line of reasoning, a drug addict struggling to
overcome his addiction would be called more holy than someone who never fell prey
to the vice the first place.  (This would be a lot easier if I could draw a
diagram.)

>In the end, Nick becomes a martyr (if you are willing to accept that he
>actually died; I know many of us would like to ignore that episode!)

Didn't happen.  Nope.  Neither did "Fever".  Uh-uh.  Nope.
<lalalalalalaIcan'thearyoulalalalalala>

             -Megan


"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:11:38 -0400
From:    Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......>
Subject: Episode Six linked in

Episode Six is now up.
    For those who haven't "tuned in" to Season IV yet, the url is
http://ca.geocities.com/gwatson2@rogers.com/index.html.
    The episodes are in zip files, which you click onto from their
individual homepages, accessed from the Episode Guide.  Your choice of
Word or WordPerfect.  And don't forget to have a look at the Notes page
*after* you read the episode.
    This week continues from the shocking revelation in the final scene
of Episode Five.

Enjoy,
Greer

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:24:00 -0600
From:    Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......>
Subject: Re: Saint Nicholas

> >He is an outsider by nature of his vampirism, which automatically removes
> >him from the
> >mundane, and endows him with a divine quality.

> A very Catholic sentiment (nothing against Catholics)

Actually, I'm pretty sure that isn't at all Catholic. Catholics don't believe
that "being an outsider" makes one divine, or saintly--obeying God's will does.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
Catechumen

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:29:58 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Admin: Forkni-l Rules

Sorry these are late. My ISP wouldn't cooperate about sending yesterday.
-- McLisa



> If you need a hand or have any questions please don't hesitate to contact
> Don Fasig Argent@c....... or Lisa McDavid  mclisa@m.......>.
> >
>  For tips on managing your Forever Knight subscriptions please visit
>  Don's page at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7139/fk-lists.htm
>
>  List digests are archived at:
> If you need a hand or have any questions please don't hesitate to contact
> Don Fasig Argent@c....... or Lisa McDavid  mclisa@m.......>.
> >
>  For tips on managing your Forever Knight subscriptions please visit
>  Don's page at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7139/fk-lists.htm
>
>  List digests are archived at:
> https://knightwind1228.tripod.com/forkni.htm
>
>  FORKNI-L RULES
>
>  1. No flames on list. FLAMERS MAY BE SET NOPOST. THE NOPOST MAY BE
> PERMANENT.
>
>  2. Please don't quote more than four lines of a previous post in replying.
> If you have more than one point to answer, then you may  quote the relevant
> four lines for that point also.
>
>  3. Limit sigs to 6 lines. Your sig starts with the first thing you write
> after the text. It includes all the lines under that, even blank lines. If
> you have one of those providers that insists on putting an ad after that,
> don't worry. The ad doesn't count.
>
> 4. Please don't send to the whole list when you are only talking to  the
> person who wrote the post you are answering.
>
>  5. Advertising on list is on a case by case basis. Please consult the
> listowners, Lisa McDavid, mclisa@m....... or Don Fasig,
> Argent@c....... for permission.
>
>  6. This list is for the discussion of Forever Knight and related topics.
> FK cast and behind the camera people are ok, except that we don't discuss
> private lives.  Announcments by authorized spokespersons about events in
> those lives are ok.  List members' fannish activities are ok, as are sharing
> personal events in our lives.  Non-FK vampires or vampires in general or not
> ok. PLEASE DON'T TALK ABOUT PROJECTS WHICH HAVEN'T BEEN OFFCIALLY ANNOUNCED
> OR WRITTEN ABOUT IN THE MEDIA.
>
> 7. No off-topic posts are without permission from a listowner.  This
> includes virus warnings.
>
> 8.. No role-playing on Forkni-l. This includes character names as
> pseudonyms or posing as a character.
>
> 9.  Each subscriber is limited to five posts per day on Forkni-l.
>
> McLisa (Lisa McDavid)
> "That will be trouble".
> Listowner, Forkni-l and Fkfic-l
> mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:37:52 -0700
From:    "David J. Duncan" <dante0220@y......>
Subject: Fwd: TVShowsOnDVD.com - News for Forever Knight


Hi Everyone:

This just came out from TVShowsonDVD.com!

Thanks

David

Note: forwarded message attached.



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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 05:26:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: news@t.......
To: dante0220@y......
Subject: TVShowsOnDVD.com - News for Forever Knight
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Dear David Duncan,
We've added a news item for "Forever Knight" to the site. Here it is:

<i>Trilogy Part 2</i> Officially Announced! Date, Menus, Extras. - 5:25 AM
10/25/2004 "Forever Knight" fans have waited a long time for this announcement, and
we're proud to let you know that Columbia has officially said that we'll have
the 2nd box set on DVD in January.  We have the info, including menu shots and a
list of extras, in the news section of TVShowsOnDVD.
URL: http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=2361

You were sent this email because you have expressed interest in having "Forever
Knight" released on DVD. If you no longer want to receive these emails you may
change the setting in your User Options - "Change Account Information".

TVShowsOnDVD.com - http://www.TVShowsOnDVD.com


------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:10:27 -0600
From:    Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......>
Subject: Season 2--It's oficial!

From TV shows on DVD:
> "Forever Knight" fans have waited a long time for this announcement, and
> we're proud to let you
> know that Columbia has officially said that we'll have the 2nd box set on DVD
> in January.  We
> have the info, including menu shots and a list of extras, in the news section
> of TVShowsOnDVD.
> URL: http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=2361

Yippee! Now it's for real, not just a leak.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:06:09 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Admin: Apology to Deborah Hymon

I ought to have said, when I wrote the post about faction labels for Fkfic-l,
that I knew she didn't say anything about mandatory labels. I'm sorry, Deborah.
I goofed. Actually nobody said anything about asking for mandatory or required
labels. I was trying to forestall such an idea but I should have made it clear
that I didn't mean anyone had asked for it.

McLisa
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:12:56 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Why we have an Adult header on Fkfic-l

Knightranger is right. The Adult: topic on Fkfic-l is there because of legal
reasons.  PSU is a publicly funded site, run by Pennsylvania State University.
If we post Adult: (in our case something that would be labelled R in US movie
ratings) to the general list, we could end up with indignant parents of a minor
subscriber complaining and getting us kicked off the site. This way, at least we
know the subscriber asked for adult: and said s/he was over 18.

McLisa, not nearly as prudish personally as I have to be when running the fic
list :)
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:34:37 -0400
From:    Kat Parsons <Calamity@v.......>
Subject: Re: Labelling stories by faction

If a lurker who's never written in the "Forever Knight" universe may weigh
in on this subject...

It seems to me there's a simple solution. On each story, have a part 0 in
which all warnings (personally I hate them, but that's another subject!)
and labels are listed, perhaps along with a list of characters appearing.

- The writer is free to begin this part 0 with a note, if applicable, to
the effect that reading said warnings or labels may spoil some of the
tensions and/or surprises she carefully wrote in and thus recommending
against reading the rest of part 0.

- If there is such a note, people who are flexible on this point can stop
at that point and go straight to the story (or not).

- Those who are adamant about having warnings and labels can go ahead and
read them before going to the story (or not).

- Meanwhile, those who don't want either have already skipped part 0 and
just started reading.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:36:10 EDT
From:    Judith Lieberman <JudithL21@a.......>
Subject: Re: Story types -- do we really need labels?

As a reader of fk fan fic, I say leave well enough alone.  The system, or
lack there of,
has been working all these years.  Let it be.  There are enough clues there
for me, and I am often pleasantly surprised when clues are ambiguos.  Judy
Lieberman

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:10:24 GMT
From:    KC Smith <tigrlady2u@j.......>
Subject: Re: Fwd: TVShowsOnDVD.com - News for Forever Knight

 I had to chuckle when I saw that the article was written by 'David Lambert'.
Maybe Nat has a cousin never mentioned? >G<

KC Smith
tigrlady2u@j.......
Nick/Natpacker with dark tendencies.
"I've never met a chocolate I didn't like."
http://www.geocities.com/knightlady2u/


------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:52:49 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Admin: Possible solution, was Re: Labelling stories by faction

As long as this part O is at the discretion of the author, I think Kat has a
solution here.

Authors, if you are ok with warnings, labels, and so on, you can put them in a
part 0.  Readers, if you don't want to read them, and there's a part O, you
could skip them.

Thanks, Kat!

McLisa
listowner, Forkni-l and Fkfic-l,
mclisa@m.......

Kat Parsons said:
>It seems to me there's a simple solution. On each story, have a part 0 in
>which all warnings (personally I hate them, but that's another subject!)
>and labels are listed, perhaps along with a list of characters appearing.

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 24 Oct 2004 to 25 Oct 2004 (#2004-296)
***************************************************************


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