FORKNI-L

FORKNI-L Digest - 2 Sep 2004 to 3 Sep 2004 (#2004-244)

Fri, 3 Sep 2004

There are 21 messages totalling 570 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Attention All Toronto-Area Listmembers!  Would you like to meet Tracey
     Rayner from NZ on Friday?
  2. Ben Bass Updates
  3. FK ALUMNI- VCR Alert for September 2004 (2)
  4. Update: Tracey is okay with Sunday too
  5. Vampiric relationships (3)
  6. Night in Question thoughts (2)
  7. Reply
  8. <No subject given>
  9. vampires and sex
 10. Birthday Info Needed
 11. tasting blood
 12. cuppla bits I messed hup yestaday - wuz Re: Cow Blood (4)
 13. Looking for stories for Donnie's coffee corner
 14. FK Moment - Fla hurricane

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:14:16 -0400
From:    Will Steeves <goid@i.......>
Subject: Attention All Toronto-Area Listmembers!  Would you like to meet Tracey
Rayner from NZ on Friday?

Greetings all,

Earlier on today, I had the pleasure of speaking with fellow listmember
Tracey Rayner from New Zealand.

Tracey is visiting Toronto and will be leaving on Tuesday, so I suggested
that we have a tour tomorrow (as in during the day on Friday).

So....if you're a Toronto area listmember and you're interested, please drop
me a line and let me know that you'd like to come along.

Also: Tracey has mentioned that she won't be free on Saturday (and I'm
guessing that she'll probably be busy or at least "busy-ish" on Monday,
since it's her last full day), but I forgot to ask her whether she's free on
Sunday, so that could be a possibility too.  If, when Tracey gets back to
me, she says that Sunday will work, and if I get a bunch of replies saying
that they'd prefer Sunday, then conceivably we can reschedule to Sunday, but
for now, the tour and post-tour dinner are tentatively scheduled for
tomorrow.

Cheers,
Will

P.S. : (Also for Toronto list members) And even if you're not able to come,
please drop me a line anyway just to say hello. Before my six and a half
years in the USA and my return to Toronto last September, the Toronto
community was well-organised with about 35 local listmembers.  Many of the
group have since gone their own ways, and I'd like to start assembling a
list of local fans again.  So, if you want to be on the list of local fan
announcements (usually pertaining to tourists visiting here), by all means
please say hello.  Not only that, but I'd love to have a local get-together
soon (details to follow).

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:08:34 -0400
From:    jmtof@j.......
Subject: Ben Bass Updates

Ben has gotten a lead role in the Canadian series "The Eleventh Hour."  I
believe it comes back on in November.

A movie that he loved, and shot last year, "The Love Crimes of Gillian
Guess" has gotten into the Toronto Film Festival and will premiere
on 9/17 and 9/18:

http://www.e.bell.ca/filmfest/2004/filmsschedules/description.asp?pageID=filmlist&id=176

This is great news and may (maybe) mean a theatrical release at some
point for the film.

Jean
Pres, BBFC

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:07:28 -0400
From:    Deborah Hymon <debh@e.......>
Subject: Re: FK ALUMNI- VCR Alert for September 2004

Cheryl, I wanted to thank you publicly for all the work you do posting the
FK Alumni listings. I for one greatly appreciate you doing this. Thank you,
thank you, thank you. (((((HUGS)))))

Deborah A. Hymon

DeborahAHymon.com

on 9/2/04 2:57 PM, Cheryl Hoffman at dayabaygal@y...... wrote:
Wow... September...  I know it's an old line... but where did the
> summer go?  > As always, please check your local listings for exact dates &
times,

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:23:25 -0400
From:    Will Steeves <goid@i.......>
Subject: Update: Tracey is okay with Sunday too

Hi everyone,

I've just spoken with Tracey, and she is okay with Sunday as well.  So...if
you'd like to meet Tracey here in TO, please let me know whether you prefer
Friday or Sunday.

Thanks,
Will

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:06:43 -0700
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y......>
Subject: Re: Vampiric relationships

Tracy's comment about her very affectionate friends got me thinking, and while
discussing all this we have to remember that our conclusions are colored by a
culture that is so obsessed with sex and sexuality that even the most minor
affectionate gestures are often interpreted as having a sexual meaning.  This
was *not* the case in the past, and is hardly universal today.  In many parts
of the world (mostly areas we would consider to be 'less civilized') it is
common and acceptable for male friends to hold hands, hug, and kiss each other,
without anyone thinking that they are anything more than good friends.  So
there's another idea from the non-UFer: many of the interactions that are being
intertepreted as sexual may be simple gestures of familiarity and affection,
which were not uncommon during... at least 600 of the years our vamps were
alive.  (I can't vouch for anything before the middle ages.)

Dos centivos por la caja.

                -Megan


"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."


------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:22:29 -0400
From:    Cheryl P <fknight420@c.......>
Subject: Re: FK ALUMNI- VCR Alert for September 2004

I second that motion, tremendous thank you.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:32:09 -0500
From:    Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: Night in Question thoughts

>Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:21:44 -0700  From:    Amanda Berendt
>.... NiQ ...the scene in which LC comes to visit Nick at the loft ... Here
>is Nick, assuming he is mortal ... and this man comes to visit saying that
>he is "much more" than the doctor from the hospital and that they have a
>"very special
>relationship" adn so on. ... Nick has got to be wondering "Am I gay?"

Or not.  He might just be very confused, which is how he looks, and
wondering what is going on.

>It would also fit with LC telling Natalie that she plans to "redeem" him...

There are so many reasons why a person might need to be "redeemed."
Somehow, I just don't think of Natalie as a person who would think of
someone as needing to be redeemed because they're gay.





Bring 'em back alive!
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
Cousin of the Knight ~ N&NPacker
CotK Site -- http://lavender.fortunecity.com/evildead/879/

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:42:42 -0500
From:    Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: Reply

>Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:35:07 -0400  From:    Libratsie@a.......
>
>... The same with Janette. Why is it okay for Nick to have OBVIOUSLY had
>sexual relations with her, and my guess would be LaCroix did as well...

I have the feeling that LaCroix did not have sexual relations with her.  It
doesn't mean he wasn't attracted, doesn't mean he didn't think he would
when he first brought her across, but I think that once he did, he thought
of her as more of a daughter.  I think I'm getting that impression from the
scene in Human Factor, where they show the scene when she's telling him
she's leaving Toronto.  He seems to be so much holding himself back.  I
think he's very attracted to her, but doesn't want her to know it.



Bring 'em back alive!
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
Cousin of the Knight ~ N&NPacker
CotK Site -- http://lavender.fortunecity.com/evildead/879/

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:49:31 -0500
From:    Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: Vampiric relationships

Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:59:52 -0400  From:    Katherine DeVries

>I'm not UFish by nature, but you'd have to be in serious denial to
>ignore the completely unsubtle interaction between Lacroix and Nicky

Or, you'd have to insist on placing more literal and human-world
interpretations on their behavior than I find necessary.  Yes, if this were
a show about humans, and I saw something like NIQ, I might thing the two
people were gay.  This, to me, is a show about something totally different.


Bring 'em back alive!
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
Cousin of the Knight ~ N&NPacker
CotK Site -- http://lavender.fortunecity.com/evildead/879/

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:01:21 -0700
From:    debbi henson <debbub@h.......>
Subject: <No subject given>

Janice Cox wrote: And has it been revealed (so to speak) whether or not
male vamps can even *have* sex in the mortal fashion?
IMHO> yes and I think that in FK males can. See Baby Baby. Serena and Nick
are obviously enjoying "mortal" sex, how else could she think that Nick made
her pregnant.
Back to Lurking now. I love it when this list gets going on a 'hot'(pun
intended) topic.
Yours,KnightCrusader


------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 3 Sep 2004 02:32:45 +0000
From:    Amy Hull <amilynh@c.......>
Subject: Re: vampires and sex

> Janice Cox wrote: And has it been revealed (so to speak) whether or not
> male vamps can even *have* sex in the mortal fashion?

Well, the innuendo in "Last Act" when Erica says, "You, sir, are very skilled
with your sword.  Would you like to run me through again?"  and Nick replies,
"And again, and again..."  seems to imply mortal style sex.

Amy

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 21:40:29 -0500
From:    eowyn3@j.......
Subject: Birthday Info Needed

Hi Y'all!

Cassie Disiere, cadisisere@a......., needs to contact me at
eowyn3@j........  Your email addy bounced and I need a current addy to be
able to announce your birthday.

Terri
eowyn3@j......., eowyn@w.......
GWDFC, G-IV & V Attendee, Knighties Listowner, TKD, FK X-Stitcher,
Proud Survivor of Fk-fic  Wars 8-11, Keeper of the FK Birthday List
She can be taught!  But only in little bytes!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:49:57 -0700
From:    Johnsie <johnsierp1@y......>
Subject: Re: tasting blood

In one of Screed's first encounters with Nick he is rather rat-like in behavior.
He is snarky as he is being questioned, cowers when Nick gets aggressive and
snarls right back if he is cornered with no way to escape.  (please don't ever
ask for an epi title, Oi jest dunt no hit)

Screed has an insatiable curiosity, an acquisitive nature.   It's the main
reason I could think of for the attitude toward the carouche among FK vampires.

Johnsie, Leader o' the 'Pack and Habider o' the 4 lines or less quote rule

DLPH <DLPH@c.......> wrote:

Since Screed drinks all that rat blood
does he see life from a rat's point of view?


------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:55:18 -0700
From:    Johnsie <johnsierp1@y......>
Subject: cuppla bits I messed hup yestaday - wuz Re: Cow Blood

Nobody does angst better than Nick.  The very fact that a male vampire
brought him across may have been enough to give him problems at the
start.  He may even regret having dallied with Janette that time since it
was what led him to be a vampire.

Do you think that drinking cow blood could be a way for him to keep
LaCroix at a distance?  We know that Janette will drink cow every once in
a while; she did in one show and made a face, but took another drink.
I don't think LaCroix ever stooped to taste one of Nick's vintages from
the fridge.
===================================================
Watch Screed in action.  If he isn't acting all rat-like due to his
diet I don't know what that is.  The carouche are looked down upon for a
reason and I think part of it is that they take on animal traits.   What
did that one look like that fed on dogs?

What would a vampire 'see' in cow's blood?  A sunny day.... oh, that
would go over well.  For my theory I would expect the drinking of cow's
blood would grant Nick some capacity for controlling the anger, the more
dangerous vampiric urges.

A point I just thought of - Screed drains the rats, he takes on the
qualities of the animal.  Nick gets his blood from a slaughterhouse, I
think, so it would still have some, but not necessarily all, of the
qualities that draining provides.

I don't have any references from the show to support the last two
points, nothing on tape available to check right now.

Johnsie, Leader o' the 'Pack


------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 23:32:38 EDT
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Night in Question thoughts

In a message dated 9/2/04 8:33:59 PM Central Daylight Time, treeleaf@i.......
writes:


> Somehow, I just don't think of Natalie as a person who would think of
> someone as needing to be redeemed because they're gay.
>

Especially since she said in "Fever"... "Who am I to judge?"

However, Nick with his missing memory could come to the conclusion that is
what she meant.<g>

--Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Sep 2004 23:40:34 EDT
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: cuppla bits I messed hup yestaday - wuz Re: Cow Blood

In a message dated 9/2/04 9:56:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
johnsierp1@y...... writes:


> Watch Screed in action.  If he isn't acting all rat-like due to his
> diet I don't know what that is.  The carouche are looked down upon for a
> reason and I think part of it is that they take on animal traits.   What
> did that one look like that fed on dogs?

I agree with Johnsie (o' course I would....) A lot of Screed's behavoir is
rat-like, and he's even friendly rather like a tame rat unless he's threatened.

I'm not sure the one LaCroix fed the dog to was necessarily a dog-like
carouche since it was growling and snarling wildly in the bushes. Maybe a wolf
or coyote? Oooo! What about a dingo?<g> Hienna? (sp?)

--Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 3 Sep 2004 00:12:56 EDT
From:    Gaelin Wade <GaelinWade@a.......>
Subject: Re: cuppla bits I messed hup yestaday - wuz Re: Cow Blood

Nope, he did. In "A More Permanent Hell".  Nick comes home and LC is there
drinking a glass. He makes some comment about how ghastly it is, but how if the
asteroid hits, they'll eventually run out of cows too. Then goes on about how
the ancients ones will last a lot longer than the younger ones, yada, yada,
yada.


Gaelin

In a message dated 9/2/2004 9:56:09 PM Central Standard Time,
johnsierp1@y...... writes:
> I don't think LaCroix ever stooped to taste one of Nick's vintages from
> the fridge.
>

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 3 Sep 2004 02:15:28 -0400
From:    Julia Kocich <jkocich@g.......>
Subject: Re: Vampiric relationships

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:40:06 -0500, Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@c.......> wrote:

> It's all mind games with those two, you know. :-)

Yeah, but it takes two minds to play those games fairly <g>. My
personal impression is that Nick is unconsciously aware that he is one
of the few, or the only, being who can drive Lacroix into an (almost)
murderous rage but get away with it. And part of Lacroix's mind games
come from the fact that Nick has, even if he is unaware of it himself,
a power over Lacroix's complex emotions that Lacroix allows few other
to ever have.
>
> Anyway, that's my take on the UF relationship. I have a hard time
> buying the lovely-dovey scenario, but the coercion one? Oh, yes.
>

Well, I'm constitutionally allergic to *any* lovey-dovey scenarios,
between *any* characters. But I see the "coercion" as something closer
to seduction, with, in a peculiar way, Nick having the upper hand.

This is one of the reasons why I believe that the greatest gift of
unselfish love that Lacroix gives Nick is the final shot of the final
scene between them. His love for Nick has coerced him into giving Nick
his release. Greater love hath no vampire <g>.

And, strange as it may sound coming from the UF listowner, I too agree
with whoever said we live in a way too hyper-sexualized society. I was
once walking in Union Square, holding hands with my mother, and a
gentlemen who had overlooked taking his meds that day began screaming
at us for the sexual proclivities he assumed our posture implied.

Sex ain't rational. And a lot of sex takes place in the imagination.
People are attracted to one another, knowing that that attraction will
never be acted on. Other people are sexual omnivores, or even
predators. Some just pretend to be, online. It is hard to parse.

But the frissons between Lacroix and Nick make for interesting TV. And
more interesting speculation.

Best,
Julia K.
UF list cobra

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:08:16 +0200
From:    CousinLucilla <cousinlucilla@f.......>
Subject: Re: Looking for stories for Donnie's coffee corner

Sorry to post this to the list but Dianne's e-mail addy didn't show up in
the original post.

Thanks for the tip, Dianne.

BTW, thank you all for stories and suggestions. Keep them coming :-)

Doris


> From
> Dianne Bugg

> Any site that has a Schanke theme should have the
> story "Trust" by Dorothy Elggren.


> Dianne


------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 3 Sep 2004 06:50:32 -0600
From:    Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......>
Subject: Re: cuppla bits I messed hup yestaday - wuz Re: Cow Blood

> The carouche are looked down upon for a
> reason and I think part of it is that they take on animal traits.   What
> did that one look like that fed on dogs?

We never saw that carouche; in both the flashback and the modern scenes, he/she
was off-screen.

And one group of people has never needed a real reason to look down on another
group--just the fact that *they* are different from *us* is enough reason,
usually. Sad but true.

Your humble servant,
Angela Gottfred

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:14:33 -0700
From:    Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......>
Subject: FK Moment - Fla hurricane

Yes, I know the impending hurricane is not really a funny thing, and
my thoughts go out to everyone waiting anxiously in it's path
BUT
I was reading a news article online about the storm and one line
caught my attention...  "the lumbering storm - weakened but still
dangerous..."  I just thought it was such a Nick-type description.
I dont' know if it was actually in the series, but I *know* it has
been used in fanfic - ie 'by drinking cow instead of human blood Nick
is weakened by still dangerous.'

Time for lunch!
-Amanda

=====
"This thing... man... whatever it is...evil may have created it, left its mark
on it, but evil does not rule it.  So I cannot kill it."  - Gabriel Van Helsing
http://www.darksideoftheglass.com


------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 2 Sep 2004 to 3 Sep 2004 (#2004-244)
*************************************************************