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FORKNI-L Digest - 5 Apr 2004 to 6 Apr 2004 (#2004-94)

Tue, 6 Apr 2004

There are 18 messages totalling 574 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Screedy "Fresh Air" episode today (3)
  2. DK1 on dvd
  3. NB's new book & Non-vampire reasons to love FK (2)
  4. Medieval theater (3)
  5. non-vamp reasons to love FK
  6. Non-vampire reasons to love FK
  7. Modern FK
  8. How to be a vampire
  9. FK Day
 10. homosexuality metaphors
 11. Vampires are 'monsters'
 12. Poll: Favorite Quote
 13. FK moment

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:26:24 -0700
From:    "Amy R." <akr@l.......>
Subject: Screedy "Fresh Air" episode today

[I'm on digest, so please forgive me if this has already been mentioned.]

The "Fresh Air" program on National Public Radio today includes an
interview with the very enthusiastic author of a new book on rats.  Among
other things, the gentleman observed a rat colony for months -- think
naturalists with binoculars, in a Manhattan alley -- and he has a lot to
say about wild rat behavior.

Sitting at my computer with that on my radio, I felt compelled to shut it
off whenever the phone rang, just in case -- rats do not make for
professional comfort, my instincts said -- but I kept thinking, this is
exactly what I would want to know if I were writing Screed stories.  In my
area, anyway, this episode of "Fresh Air" will rerun tonight, so I thought
that if anyone wanted to catch the episode for inspiring/researching Screed
stuff, you might want to check your local NPR station's website for your
area's schedule.

Amy R.
akr@l.......
Bright Knight: http://users.LMI.net/akr/fk/

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:39:33 -0700
From:    Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......>
Subject: DK1 on dvd

I was watching my FK dvds on my computer. (damn computer doesn't have
a remote, so as I was getting tired, I had to get out of bed to stop
it)
Anyhoo, I noticed in DK-1 when Nick gets out of bed the morning after
getting paired with Schanke and the binging on the blood in the Mayan
cup...
When he is listening to his messages, the first one is from Alyse.
My tapes have it as being some travel guy saying he had just won a
trip to Hawaii or something, then Nick quickly skipping it.  Then
Natalie's message comes on about him eating something.  Why would
Alyse have his home number that soon... I can understand later after
they make out in the museum, but just after that first meeting.  I
kind of liked the irony of winning the trip better. JMHO
I guess I didn't pay much attention the first bunch of times I
watched the dvds.  Maybe I should watch them all while half asleep,
maybe I'd notice more.
Ok, I am really going to bed now... gotta get up early tomorrow.
-Amanda

=====
"Give me your soul and your heart will take flight
Forevermore in the night, Forever MINE in the night"
http://www.darksideoftheglass.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:43:15 -0500
From:    Monica Rodriguez <doctormon@m.......>
Subject: Re: NB's new book & Non-vampire reasons to love FK

A few replies here in one post...

>>>
From:    Stephen Fellows <stevef@m.......<mailto:stevef@m.......>>
Subject: Amazon taking pre-orders for NB's new book

I noticed today that Amazon.com is accepting pre-orders for "Siege
Perilous" by Nigel Bennett & P.N. Elrod.  <snip> "Siege Perilous" is the
third novel co-authored by Nigel Bennett (Lacroix on FK) and P.N. Elrod.
 The others are "Keeper of the King" (published in 1996), and "His
Father's Son" (published in 2001).
>>>

Do you (or does anyone) know, is this third a continuation of the story?
As I understand it, His Father's Son is a sequel to Keeper of the King.

>>>
From:    SFryar@a.......<mailto:SFryar@a.......>
Subject: Re: Non-vampire reasons to love FK

..Also, the broadcasters shamlessly pander to the youthful audience
while it's the "older" folks who've got the money and the buying power.
>>>

I think this would be a *major* obstacle for FK's success today. So much
of TV, like most media and marketing, is aimed today at a younger
audience. While 'older' folks have more buying power, apparently younger
people have more *disposable* cash, and I think there's the factor of
kids getting parents to buy stuff. However it happens, marketing is
aiming to a younger and younger audience, and FK, with our cast, would
definitely be considered too old.

>>>
And when you consider that the latest sci-fi/fantasy shows which got the
ax ("Angel" and "Firefly") were well-written shows which didn't insult
the intelligence of the audience, I seriously doubt if FK would have a
chance in an
environment where mediocre "brain candy fluff" shows stay on forever.
>>>
I have to agree again. Like Farscape, another of my
beloved-but-cancelled shows, FK would be found, undoubtedly, "too smart"
as Stephie put it, for the network to 'risk' putting money into it. I
fear it would have had a shorter life now than it did when it aired.

And to add to the discussion on what I liked so much about FK, the depth
of the characters attracted me. Character development, complicated
characters, with many layers and contradictions, are what unfailingly
attract me to a show/story. And I like to see those characters deal with
their demons, confront the contradictions, and develop and change as a
result. I like to see my characters grow, as we do in life. Sound
familiar? Yup, FK was great for this, as it was for simply a
well-written, intriguing story, wonderfully acted by talented people.
<sigh> What else can I say?

monica
If this is the cure, give me the disease.
Inside every older person is a younger person - wondering what the hell
happened.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:24:02 EDT
From:    Shenandora DeWynst <Shenandora@a.......>
Subject: Re: NB's new book & Non-vampire reasons to love FK

> Do you (or does anyone) know, is this third a continuation of the story?
> As I understand it, His Father's Son is a sequel to Keeper of the King

Yes, as far as I know, it is the third novel of the trilogy. I like the cover
;-)

Heike
*Shenandora@a.......*
*shenandoradewynst.com*
*uncle-unlimited.org*
"Don't do anything I wouldn't do!" - Uncle

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:59:23 -0700
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y......>
Subject: Medieval theater

I get Knowledge News by e-mail, and not long ago was one talking about how
western drama started out as little embellishments in Mass and grew from there.

"In time, the productions become too large to stay within the Mass--or even
within the church building--and religious drama moves from the sanctuary to the
churchyard. Then, in 1210, the Pope issues an edict forbidding clergy from acting
on public stages. Now the drama is outside the church and under the control of
laymen."

Of course, my first thought was, "I wonder if a young Nicholas participated in
those."  Maybe where he got his start acting?

Hmmm... I may see a story coming out of this.  Stand by....

                          -Megan



"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:00:18 EDT
From:    Cindy Brewer <CBCSI7@a.......>
Subject: Re: non-vamp reasons to love FK

In a message dated 4/4/2004 12:49:56 PM Central Daylight Time, akr@l.......
writes:
>Without discounting that, I just wanted to ask the list: *what
>is it you enjoy in FK's story quite independent of the vampire aspect?*

What drew me into FK was the fact that it was a cop show. I've been a long
time fan of police dramas. And then I find out the twist is that the main
character is not only a homicide detective but also an 800 year old vampire. :)
Hooked me right away.

What I also loved about FK was the humor especially first and second season.
The injokes that went over Schanke's head were priceless.


Cindy
Knightie, N&Natpacker, Vaquera, FoD war leader, FFF, WWGer 2 survivor
"They made me forget and that's all I remember."Schanke,Close Call

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:52:29 EDT
From:    Billie Lee Williams <McCelt2003@a.......>
Subject: Re: Non-vampire reasons to love FK

In a message dated 4/5/2004 12:37:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, SFryar@a.......
writes:
And when you consider that the latest sci-fi/fantasy shows which got the ax
("Angel" and "Firefly") were well-written shows which didn't insult the
intelligence of the audience, I seriously doubt if FK would have a chance
Wow,

A big (no pun or otherwise intended...............) **AMEN** to that!!

Forever Yours,
Billie-Lee (who is still fuming at the way FARSCPAE ended, even with a movie
to "tie things up" in the works, and thinks both Firefly and Angel have been
ended far before they should; particularly Angel, <sheesh>, and would give
eye's teeth to see MORE Forever Knight, no matter who might have "aged well" or
not, amongst the actors.......  .02 cents worth <g>)

Billie-Lee/Suzi
RN, Ph.D., et al :)
"Oh Master Grant that I may never seek, to be consoled so much as to console"
(Saint Francis)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:49:26 -0700
From:    Adina Montgomery <adinaruth@e.......>
Subject: Re: Screedy "Fresh Air" episode today

Fresh Air has it's own link off the NPR website and they archive all the
programs so you can listen at your leisure.  (Actually, here's the exact
link to the story mentioned:
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1813049 )  Enjoy, Ratsie
lovers.


this episode of "Fresh Air" will rerun tonight, so I thought
that if anyone wanted to catch the episode for inspiring/researching Screed
stuff, you might want to check your local NPR station's website for your
area's schedule.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:13:26 -0400
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Screedy "Fresh Air" episode today

I was able to hear most of this program, and it was fascinating and fun, good
fan fic fodder, too. I believe they said the subject of the interview (the
author, not the rats) had written a book on his study of the rats in New York
City.

Sounds like something I may have to save up so I can buy it as a gift for Greg
Kramer<g>

Something tells me, though, that Screed would not be a good person to perform
such a study on ratsie behavoir.... He'd be too tempted to sample the subjects,
and I don't mean take a sample study, but rather a sample snack.

--Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:29:44 -0700
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y......>
Subject: Modern FK

The other thing that made me think (on the question of whether or not FK would
have survived better today than when it ran) was Libby's comment that we would
probably have had a bloodier and sexier show than we did.  In which case, it's
probably a good thing it ran when it did, because it would be missing at least
4 fans otherwise-- I cannot tell you how many current shows I might otherwise
enjoy, but refuse to watch because I find the content offensive/over the top.
FK, admittedly, runs right near the edge of my 'sensibilities' as it is.  I'm
rather glad it wasn't subject to the modern deluge of sludge that masquarades as
'cutting-edge realism'.

                       -Megan


"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:23:22 +0000
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@c.......>
Subject: Re: Medieval theater

Megan Hull wrote:

> Of course, my first thought was, "I wonder if a young Nicholas participated
in those."  Maybe where he got his start acting?
>
> Hmmm... I may see a story coming out of this.  Stand by....

I'm not so sure that acting would be seen as seemly for a noble, especially for
a knight or knight-in-training. Does anyone know if, at this time, actors were
considered disreputable? That seems to have been the general perception for
many hundreds of years.

Considering that society was very rigid at the time, I just can't see such a
crossover in allowed roles. I would think that Nicholas would consider it beneath
him to be a performer for the unwashed masses (these performances were held in
market squares for all and sundry to enjoy).

Nancy Kaminski
--
nancykam@c.......
www.nancykam.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:46:11 -0700
From:    Laura Davies <brightfeather1.geo@y......>
Subject: How to be a vampire

A friend of mine sent me to this text-type game
recently that claims to turn you into a vampire.  <G>
Considering that you can make humans tell you stuff,
I'm guessing that it's even FK-type vampires.  It
wouldn't be nice to keep this to myself, 'specially
when I'm sure that some fellow FK fans would probably
like the chance to play a vampire, so, here's the
link:

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Shadowstar

Laura (who thinks that one of LaCroix's minions
must've written this to give him the opportunity to
sneak up easier on unwary humans)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:55:06 -0400
From:    mary combs <combsm@e.......>
Subject: Re: Medieval theater

> Megan Hull wrote:
> > Of course, my first thought was, "I wonder if a young Nicholas
participated in those."  Maybe where he got his start acting?

and Nancy Kaminski replied
> I'm not so sure that acting would be seen as seemly for a noble,
especially for a knight or knight-in-training.

Nancy's absolutely correct. Nick probably saw liturgical dramas as a
mortal--possibly as a child. But he would not have had the opportunity to
act "professionally" until long, long after becoming a vampire. In addition
to the issue of class, there was that pesky sunlight problem.

The medieval "mystery" plays were performed and produced by the crafts
guilds. (That enduring tradition is reflected in Shakespeare's Midsummer
Night's Dream, where the rustics are introduced by their trades: "Botton
the Weaver" etc.) Membership in a guild was no easy thing to come by. .

Revivals of some of these plays are performed today, although not with the
lavish production values of the later versions.. Nowadays, no one is going
to hoist a structure full of blazing candles and singing angels over the
audience, or deluge them with a flood of water as part of Noah's story. The
"special effects" were by all accounts, spectacular.

There were differences among developments on the continent and in England,
but the York site below has the advantage of being in English <gr>

The York Mystery Plays  (revived in 1951)
http://www.yorkearlymusic.org/mysteryplays/index1.htm

Infoplease's encyclopedia item
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/ent/A0833366.html

A much longer piece from the Encyclopedia Britannica
http://www.britannica.com/eb/print?eu=108432

Mary

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:26:01 -0700
From:    "Cheryl P." <fknight12281992@y......>
Subject: FK Day

Driving around I saw LaCroix's, attorney at Law, and I was hungry and went to
Nick's Cafe.  I had one of my stories was advertised by the Knight Agency.  Very
weird Day.
Cheryl Pillsbury
FKnight12281992@y......


He was brought across in 1228
I was brought across in1992
I will always be his Forever Knight
ForeverKnight.5u.com
VampiresCrypt@y.......

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:09:48 -0700
From:    "Amy R." <akr@l.......>
Subject: homosexuality metaphors

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:58:18 EDT, Libratsie@a....... wrote:
<<But Buffy the Vampire Slayer also dove in depth with social issues . . .
people being accepted for being gay (this was only alluded to in FEVER on
FK, but it was also a slightly different era at the time) . . .>>

Now that's a very interesting comparison: the two shows' chosen metaphors
(both overt and covert) for homosexuality.  As Libby notes, the shows,
especially FK, belong to different eras than the present, for something on
which society is changing relatively rapidly, but just to compare them as
self-contained texts:

If I understand BVS correctly, its early seasons present the subtle,
challenging metaphor of the Slayer's experience (difference, secrecy) as
analogous to that of a gay teenager.  This originally covert metaphor
dramatically ramps up, becomes overt, and ultimately wears itself out
as a symbol once Mrs. Summers learns about it all.  After that, the story
concretizes its approach to homosexuality in the characters Willow and Tara
(and eventually others), abandoning metaphors for unfiltered depiction.

In FK, on the other hand, again as Libby notes, the only overt metaphor is
in "Fever" by Gillian Horvath, where Lacroix adapts the famous line about
a love that dare not speak its name, among other things.  As a single
episode, "Fever" is still very striking and compelling, and was even more
so when it first aired -- I don't think I'd ever seen anything like it,
at the time.  However, the metaphor chosen in "Fever" has troubled me
more and more over the years, especially when it leaves the careful
confines of its own proper episode and gets applied to the entire series,
or, worse, the real world.  After all, FK vampires are monsters that kill
people.  Further, FK vampires either choose their vampirism or have it
imposed on them, depending on your reconciliation of "Near Death" and
"Hearts of Darkness;" in neither case is FK vampirism naturally inborn
in anyone.  As a metaphor for homosexuality, FK vampirism seems, to me,
potentially both offensive and dangerous -- too easy to misuse.

On the other hand, I believe there is a covert metaphor for homosexuality
potentially available in FK with much more positive potential.  I've been
trying to come up with a story to appropriately display this metaphor for
some time, but haven't managed it yet.  The covert metaphor I think I see
is in Nick's desire for humanity.  His preference is incomprehensible and
repulsive to other vampires.  At various times, Lacroix tries to beat that
preference out of him, as well as talk it out of him; Janette tries to
cajole and shame it out of him.  They never succeed.  Eventually, Janette
accepts it as part of him (AFWTD tag), to his surprise and relief.  Further,
Nick's preference for humanity is not something he knew from the beginning
of his vampirism, but rather something that he comes to know about himself,
as inherent in himself.  I believe this angle is rich in possibility, and
could have made an excellent component for an episode, with perhaps a
flashback c. 1590, when Nick begins killing "only the guilty," and a
police mystery perhaps involving a gay character who is closeted or in
denial.

Those are the only metaphors for homosexuality I know in FK's story,
the one overt and the other covert.  What others have I missed?


Amy R.
akr@l.......
Bright Knight: http://users.LMI.net/akr/fk/

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:28:22 -0700
From:    Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......>
Subject: Re: Vampires are 'monsters'

Amy said---
After all, FK vampires are monsters that kill people.

I have to politely disagree with that statment.
I never saw FK vampires as 'monsters'.  That is what I liked about
the FK vamps.  So many shows and movies portray the vampires as
monsters or demons (ie Buffy). But FK didn't do that.  It portrayed
vampires as immortal creatures, both good and bad... for lack of a
better description - kind of a new breed of 'people'...
Yes, the FK vamps *do* kill people, but so do other people.  I kind
of see that aspect as similar to people eating meat.  The vampires
see humans as a food souce, not because they are evil or monsters,
but like people see cows or chickens as a food source.
Ok, I am going off on a tangent.
Back to work.
-Amanda

=====
"Give me your soul and your heart will take flight
Forevermore in the night, Forever MINE in the night"
http://www.darksideoftheglass.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:41:01 -0700
From:    Maura Tremayne <admin@s.......>
Subject: Poll: Favorite Quote

I'm taking a poll, please send your response to admin@s.......
[ I will also be monitoring the list for replies :) ]

What is your favorite quote from FK, any season, any episode -
CHALLENGE:

You can ONLY PICK ONE!

Thanks, Maura

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:44:35 -0700
From:    "Cheryl P." <fknight12281992@y......>
Subject: FK moment

I see vampires as another race from another country.  One place I would love be
in.
Cheryl Pillsbury
FKnight12281992@y......


He was brought across in 1228
I was brought across in1992
I will always be his Forever Knight
ForeverKnight.5u.com
VampiresCrypt@y.......

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 5 Apr 2004 to 6 Apr 2004 (#2004-94)
************************************************************


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