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FORKNI-L Digest - 25 Sep 2003 to 26 Sep 2003 (#2003-274)

Fri, 26 Sep 2003

There are 15 messages totalling 396 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. mirrior image (5)
  2. Fw: Re: mirrior image
  3. salmon run / Myra in hip-waders ?
  4. VAMPIRE IMAGE (2)
  5. YKYBWTMFK...
  6. Ag, mirrors and photographs
  7. vampire image (2)
  8. YKYBWTM...
  9. Weird...

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Date:    Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:15:41 -0700
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y.......>
Subject: Re: mirrior image

IIRC, the whole thing had to do with silver-- it wasn't that they didn't cast a
reflection at all, just not in mirrors.  Silver was supposed to be anathma to
all things evil or supernatural (not just werewolves), and since early mirrors
were either a highly polished silver plate or glass with a silver backing
(because polished silver gives a good reflection), vampires didn't cast a
reflection because the silver rejected the image.  Modern mirrors are more
commonly backed with aluminum, which one could take to mean that even if the
no-reflection thing were true, it wouldn't apply any more except for old or
expensive mirrors that still used silver.  Of course, this is all dredged up
from an artical I read years and years ago, and I may be entirely wrong.
Assuming, tho, that it *did* work like that-- can you imagine Janette's reaction
when they started making aluminum-backed mirrors?  <G>  Or if one of them were
to walk into an old house that had a mix of silver and aluminum mirrors?  You'd
get a reflection in only some of them.  (Now *that* would be interesting to see
Nick talk his way out of!)

                  -Megan

Libratsie@a....... wrote:
> The no reflection thing is a myth, no truth to it.

It depends on which vampire mythos you are using.

"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:27:52 -0400
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: mirrior image

In a message dated 9/25/2003 5:15:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mistrydder@y....... writes:

> IIRC, the whole thing had to do with silver-- it wasn't
> that they didn't cast a reflection at all, just not in mirrors.

Again, this isn't FK canon. That would also vary from mythos to mythos, legend
to legend. I don't recall silver ever being mentioned in the FK universe.

(Back to the soul for a moment, it occured to me that in Buffy/Angel, the soul
has nothing to do with the reflection either because Angel and Spike do not have
reflections but they have souls)

However, I do love the idea for fan fic because you could use that wonderful
idea of a "Mirror mix" so that they'd have reflections in some mirrors, and not
in others. I can just see Schanke's expression. ROTFL!

I don't think the "no reflection" would have worked well in FK because as a
homicide detective, Nick would have been on numerous cases where he HAD to be
near mirrors. There would have been too big a risk someone would have noticed he
didn't reflect sooner or later. Can you imagine working a case where someone was
murdered in their mirrored-ceiling bedroom? <g>

Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:14:45 -0700
From:    Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y.......>
Subject: Re: mirrior image

--- Libratsie@a....... wrote:
> I don't think the "no reflection" would have worked well in FK
> because as a homicide detective, Nick would have been on numerous
> cases where he HAD to be near mirrors.

Well... not just at crime scenes... how about the interrogation room?
 There is a two way mirror.  Think about the suspect when Nick walks
into the room and according to the mirror, the suspect is still
alone!  Kind of an awkward moment.

-Amanda (depressed cuz she just got back from shopping for an outfit
for a wedding and nothing fit!)

=====
"Give me your soul and your heart will take flight
Forevermore in the night, Forever MINE in the night"
http://operacellar.tripod.com/phantomslair.html
http://debrabantfoundation.tripod.com/home.html


------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:29:13 -0400
From:    Debbie Clarke <dittany121@h.......>
Subject: Re: mirrior image

>From: Megan Hull <mistrydder@y.......>
>
>IIRC, the whole thing had to do with silver--

Now we have come full circle. Doesn't silver nitrate play a part in
photographs?

Actually I liked the fact that the FK vampires could be seen in mirrors.  It
  made them seem  less mythlike and more real. Besides which  it stands to
reason that some of  our  preconceived ideas about vampires would be  wrong.

Debbie Clarke


------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:49:15 -0700
From:    Liz the Lucky <luckyliz@c.......>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: mirrior image

Debbie sed:
> Besides which  it stands to
> reason that some of  our  preconceived ideas about vampires would be  wrong.

Not only that, but I can easily see FK vamps coming up with some of
the wrong myths, as a way of hiding themselves. And then whammy some
poor innocent into playing out the myth. "See? George over there is
counting that pile of rice. He must be the vampire killing all the
maidens in the village." {Innocently walks away as poor George gets
staked, beheaded and turned into villager flambe}

One thing I've always loved from a fanfic writer's standpoint was how
Bram Stoker died pennyless. Dracula was his last success. Such a
LaCroixian revenge. <weg>

--
Hugs and Kisses,
Liz the Lucky           luckyliz@c.......
http://www.mindspring.com/~luckyliz
Who is Will? And why is everyone firing at him?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:25:08 -0700
From:    "Amy R." <akr@l.......>
Subject: salmon run / Myra in hip-waders ?

      I'm trying to identify a scene in which Schanke, in the precinct,
talks about wanting to go fishing during the salmon run, and mentions Myra
in hip-waders.  For some reason, he's not getting to do this -- a
case-related reason, recalcitrant Captain, something.

      I had thought it came from second-season, but I've skimmed through
every second-season episode except "The Fire Inside," and I'm positive it's
not in there.  So either I've missed it, or it's first season.

      (It's not the whale-watching in the gulf of St. Lawrence scenario
from "Hunted," by the way.  If I remember this scene correctly, "salmon"
and "hip-waders" are specifically named.)

      If you happen to know which episode holds this scene, could you
please drop me a line off-list or copy me on a list response?  (I'm no-mail
on forkni.)  The reference is for fanfiction.

Thank you very much,
Amy


P.S.  I've long thought that the only canonical references to the Enforcers
are in "Unreality TV" (explicit) and "The Fix" (implicit: "those who
protect our secret").  While searching for the salmon scene, I came across
an additional implicit reference to the Enforcers that had previously
escaped me.  In first-season's "Hunters," Janette, referring to Schanke,
asks Nick, "What if he should find out what I am?  You know what would have
to happen."  In context of the FK story as a whole, that has to be a
reference to the one rule the Enforcers enforce -- that no human may know
about vampires -- whether or not Janette intends to reference the Enforcers
independent of their rule.  As "Hunters" comes six episodes before
"Unreality TV," I wondered if that line had perhaps even inspired the later
episode.  Just thought I'd share . . .


Amy R.
akr@l.......
FK Fanfic Recommendations: http://users.lmi.net/akr/fk/recommen/

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:55:38 -0700
From:    Mary Beth Mc Coy <mmccoy@l.......>
Subject: VAMPIRE IMAGE

Regarding the reflection of vampires in mirrors, it is a part of the
folklore that vampires don't have a reflection in mirrors.  I don't
recall any folklore where a vampire isn't able to appear on film, as in
a picture, and even ghosts can show up on film.  After all, a vampire
does have a physical body, unlike a ghost, whose ectoplasm shows up on
film.  I think that the references in FK to Nick's sometime reflection
in a mirror is intentionally inconsistent because it is implied that the
treatments are working to some degree.  After all, Nick states in one ep
that he can hold a cross without being burned so badly, and there is
also a reference to garlic pills working.   As for Nick having a soul, I
think Janette and LaCroix both believe vampires don't have one, and Nick
says in season 1 he is trying to regain his, so he thinks he's lost his.
 However, it is pretty clear that vampires do have souls and are capable
of goodness.  Nick, Janette, LaCroix, Vachon and Urs all make choices
which reveal their goodness at some point in the series.  In "Near
Death", it's also clear Nick has a soul, but it is an unrighteous one,
because he hasn't truly discovered his faith and obtained grace and
forgiveness.

Mary Beth

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:38:43 -0400
From:    "Berendt, Amanda" <Amanda.Berendt@a.......>
Subject: YKYBWTMFK...

I work in the radiology department of a regional trauma center and today as I
was walking down the hallway to get a soda from the vending machine I saw a
volunteer courier lady walking down the hall past me.  She was delivering blood
to somewhere, so in her hands was a plastic bag with 3 bags of blood in it.  Of
course I thought... is she going to the morge to feed a 'customer' who woke up.
Or possibly did a vampire get hungry and order out?
Well I thought it was amusing....<g>

-Amanda
debrabant_foundation@y.......
http://debrabantfoundation.tripod.com/home.html

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:57:49 -0700
From:    chris thatcher <mb_the_spy@y.......>
Subject: Ag, mirrors and photographs

--- Megan Hull <mistrydder@y.......> wrote:
> IIRC, the whole thing had to do with silver....
> Silver was supposed to be
> anathma to all things evil or supernatural....

this is fun!  Silver is a good explaination for the
differing mirror phenomena, but that takes us back
around to our first question of how L. LaC. could be
in an early photograph.  If I remember correctly, the
light active chemical in black and white film, then
and now, was silver-based.  let's see 'em talk their
way outta *that* one! ;) ...'course with color film
there are several different compounds involved.

chris ;?

=====
I'm not a fatalist, but even if I were, what could I do about it?
    ~Emo Phillips


------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:05:36 +0930
From:    jennii35 <jennii35@i.......>
Subject: Re: vampire image

    Only remember one scene
    something to do with musicians
     where Lacroix said

      because they have a soul
      and we do not

       Dot

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:02:09 -0400
From:    "Berendt, Amanda" <Amanda.Berendt@a.......>
Subject: YKYBWTM...

I have had too much FK (and Nick Knight) on the brain lately.
The other day I went to Walmart and saw "The Best of Rick Springfield" cd on the
bargin rack, so I bought it.
Well, this morning on the way to work I was listening to it and one of the songs
- "Love is Alright Tonight" had the following lyrics...
    'With the night comes the feeling that I've got this incredible power'
Of course I thought of Nick (both Ger and Rick) and the line being a hidden
reference to vamping out at night. :)
Ok, back to work.

-Amanda
*Please do NOT reply to this address, I only use it at work*
Reply to - debrabant_foundation@y.......
http://debrabantfoundation.tripod.com/home.html

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:20:34 -0400
From:    Debbie Clarke <dittany121@h.......>
Subject: Re: mirrior image

In the episode The Games Vampires Play, Nick's reflection doesn't show up in
the mirror in the scene in the Boudoir.  Virtual Reality vampires play by
the rules set out in Bram Stoker's Dracula.

Debbie Clarke

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:44:45 -0700
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y.......>
Subject: Re: vampire image

And who died and made him expert?  <G>  The only references to vampires *not*
having souls come from LC and Jenette themseves, and as has been pointed out, I
doubt vampires really know <for certain> any better than mortals whether or not
they have souls.

                        -Megan

jennii35 <jennii35@i.......> wrote:
Only remember one scene something to do with musicians where Lacroix said
because they have a soul and we do not.

"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:04:17 -0400
From:    "Berendt, Amanda" <Amanda.Berendt@a.......>
Subject: Weird...

I am working on a fic and without giving any spoiler info for anyone that might
read it something funny happened.
I was just figuring out some ages of new characters to make sure the timeline
worked and it turned out (quite accidently) that Natalie's granddaughter winds
up meeting Nick when she is the same age that Nat was when *she* met Nick.  (28
years old as per Only the Lonely)
Cool huh?
-Amanda
Please do not reply to this addy I can only access it at work*
please use debrabant_foundation@y.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:13:43 +0000
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@c.......>
Subject: Re: VAMPIRE IMAGE

Mary Beth wrote:

> However, it is pretty clear that vampires do have souls and are capable
> of goodness.  Nick, Janette, LaCroix, Vachon and Urs all make choices
> which reveal their goodness at some point in the series.

However, merely doing good does not imply the possession of a soul. AFter all,
think of all the baddies in FK (including Hitler, Jack the Ripper, and the
assorted serial killers) all of whom are mortal and therefore supposedly in
possession of a soul. Lack of soul = bad, Has a soul = good does not make sense.

> In "Near
> Death", it's also clear Nick has a soul, but it is an unrighteous one,
> because he hasn't truly discovered his faith and obtained grace and
> forgiveness.

It can be argued that that was Nick's personal beliefs being dramatized---the
medieval belief in atonement played out in his own, nearly-dead brain. In
short, a hallucination.

I don't think FK really takes a stand on the existence of the soul, but it does
illustrate our vampires' personal beliefs, which may or may not have any basis
in reality.

Nancy Kaminski
--
nancykam@c.......
www.nancykam.com

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 25 Sep 2003 to 26 Sep 2003 (#2003-274)
***************************************************************


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