FORKNI-L

FORKNI-L Digest - 4 Mar 2002 to 5 Mar 2002 (#2002-68)

Tue, 5 Mar 2002

There are 19 messages totalling 502 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Differences between Angel & FK (6)
  2. LaCroix question
  3. Nick and religious items (2)
  4. Thanking TPTB (particularly Sci-fi)
  5. Fw: [Fwd: Re: Differences between Angel & FK]
  6. [Fwd: Re: Differences between Angel & FK]
  7. reply from Showcase (2)
  8. Admin: List digest site problem (3)
  9. About that extra loft space, lol
 10. NK's "Deja Vu"

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Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:19:53 -0500
From:    liv <liv@z.......>
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:07:53 EST, Evelyn Duncan <BrandyKitt@a.......>
wrote:
(snip)
>What about Spike helping Buffy and Dawn during the Glory storyline?
>Spike didn't tell Glory that Dawn was the Key, and he endured quite
>a bit of pain and battering for it.  I think Spike can choose, but he's
>a rarity.
-------------
Spike clearly has a sense of honor, that is, he honors debts.
Evidently Joyce had placed him under a considerable debt when she
treated him like a person, and Dawn continued this, by treating him
respectfully. In the Buffy world, though, this is clearly not the same
as being good because you have a soul.  Recently Spike is shown
playing poker for kittens and running demon eggs to be used as weapons
against civilians. Since he has no soul, he sees no conflict in these
activities.

I think it is more confusing in Forever Knight. There seemed to be
something evil in vampirism, even in vampirism that didn't end up
killing humans, I think (Screed ate animals, so he wasn't any more a
killer than I am, I suppose, since I eat meat). I suppose if I had to
guess--only a guess--I would say that it was either the connection
with the children of Lilith, the succubi and inncubi, or something to
do simply with refusing the gift of man and hence rejecting the
presence of God, since the FK vamps back away from crosses. The Buffy
vamps do, too, of course, but they really are demons possessing
corpses, and crosses may have, in the Buffyverse, have been adopted by
the Christian church because they are symbols that repel vampires.
Which could be true in FK as well, but I don't remember anyone ever
mentioning it.


liv
liv@g.......
take out the garbage to reply...

If you can't beat your computer at chess try kickboxing.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:52:29 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

In a message dated 3/4/02 6:23:09 PM Central Standard Time, liv@z.......
writes:

<< Screed ate animals, so he wasn't any more a
 killer than I am, I suppose, since I eat meat). >>
Screed has no qualms about killing a "fiesty wench" or two.

Another difference between BtVS and FK vamps is that although BtVS vampires
prefer human, Spike hasn't raised much of a fuss about his butcher blood diet
(now his one-time girlfriend Harmony said in an Angel episode that pig's
blood goes straight to her hips), but he does doctor the blood with spices
and herbs (and Weetabix<g>) The FK vampires don't seem as open to other
bloods, though it is hard to say that most BtVS vamps would be the same as
both Spike and Angel are special cases.

Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:58:09 -0500
From:    liv <liv@z.......>
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:52:29 EST, Libratsie@a....... wrote:
(snip)The FK vampires don't seem as open to other
>bloods, though it is hard to say that most BtVS vamps would be the same as
>both Spike and Angel are special cases.
---------------------------
Remember that the FK vampires absorb the personalities of those they
eat. There was the one episode where Nick goes to visit a countess who
kills a great musician so they can absorb his talent briefly, it is
what she does....something about vampires not being creative, except
by consuming others. When Nick drinks cow or pig, he spends hours
thinking like a cow or pig, I think...I remember LaCroix commenting on
it. I suppose Screed spent a lot of time feeling like a rat. I had not
remembered whether he ate humans or not, by the way, although I should
have--there is a flashback or two with Vachon, isn't there? It has
been a while since I've seen any of those episodes. In any case, it
clearly is possible for a FK vampire to survive on animals only, and
thus not become a killer of humans.

Did vampire dog confuse anyone else?

liv
liv@g.......
take out the garbage to reply...

If you can't beat your computer at chess try kickboxing.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:36:59 -0500
From:    liv <liv@z.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix question

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:38:22 -0500, Lisa McDavid
<mclisa@m.......> wrote:

>>Could someone please tell me if the era Lacroix lived in would be called the
>>"Bacchanalian Era?"
>
> No, because by the time Lucius was brought across, 79 A.D., the Bacchanalia
> no longer existed. Here is the definition of Bacchanalia from the 6th ed. of
> the Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th ed.
>
>>" in Roman religion, festival in honor of Bacchus, god of wine. Originally a
religious ceremony, like the Liberalia, it gradually became an occasion for
drunken, licentious excesses and was finally forbidden by law (186 B.C.).<
-----------------
Dionysios, or Bacchus, was not a major Roman God, although a little
earlier, and in some other countries, he was very influencial. Crete
was probably the center of the religion.


liv
liv@g.......
take out the garbage to reply...

If you can't beat your computer at chess try kickboxing.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:40:49 -0800
From:    Lady Ariake <lady_ariake@y.......>
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

--- liv <liv@z.......> wrote:
>>
> Also, there has never been any evidence that any
> belief system or loss
> of memory, in the Buffyverse, would cause a vampire
> to be able to walk
> in the sun.

There *is,* however, a magical ring which enables BTVS
vamps to walk in sunlight.   In a crossover ep which I
missed, Oz takes it to Angel in LA.  Since he hasn't
been using it I have to assume it was destroyed
somehow.  (I think Spike was involved but I can't
confirm as I haven't seen that one.)

I think a major difference is that FK was basically a
cop show with a vampire twist while Buffy (from whence
Angel came) is basically a metaphor for teen years and
growing up with demons in the place of actual
adolescent problems.  They have a different feel to
them.

=====
"If you're going to have delusions of grandeur, go for the really satisfying
ones."  (Marcus Cole, Anla'shok, or my life motto.)

"...In all things trust the Weyrfolk, for their cause is just and true."

http://www.geocities.com/northrangesweyr

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:54:34 -0500
From:    liv <liv@z.......>
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:40:49 -0800, Lady Ariake <lady_ariake@y.......>
wrote:
(snip)
>There *is,* however, a magical ring which enables BTVS
>vamps to walk in sunlight.   In a crossover ep which I
>missed, Oz takes it to Angel in LA.  Since he hasn't
>been using it I have to assume it was destroyed
>somehow.  (I think Spike was involved but I can't
>confirm as I haven't seen that one.)
------------
Yes, that is the episode when Spike does the wonderful monologue about
Angel's hair gel and pranciness....in Buffy Spike returned to town to
look for the ring. He found it, but Buffy takes it away from him. She
sends it to Angel. It apparently makes a vamp invulnerable, as long as
the vamp can hold on to it. At the end of the episode Angel destroys
it, because if he goes walking in the sun, he will lose contact with
the people who creep around in darkness, the people he should be
helping. Well, not that exactly, but something like that.

Personally, I think it was a silly decision, but then, that may be why
I'm not a hero.

--------------
liv
liv@g.......
take out the garbage to reply...

If you can't beat your computer at chess try kickboxing.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:06:23 EST
From:    Evelyn Duncan <BrandyKitt@a.......>
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

In a message dated 03/04/2002 7:41:29 PM Central Standard Time,
lady_ariake@y....... writes:

<<
In a crossover ep which I
missed, Oz takes it to Angel in LA.  Since he hasn't
been using it I have to assume it was destroyed
somehow.  (I think Spike was involved but I can't
confirm as I haven't seen that one.)


>>

Yes, the Gem of Amara.  Spike was hunting for it,
but Harmony found it.  Spike tried staking her, but
she didn't turn to dust.  Angel decided that the ring
was too dangerous to exist, but I don't know what he
did with it.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@a.......
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me!

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:14 EST
From:    DanaKnight@a.......
Subject: Nick and religious items

If the Cross, Menorah, and the black onyx knives from Blackwing all have an
effect on Nick, what would happen if he went to India and tried to drink cow
blood? Cows are considered sacred objects there.

Or has my masive FK pig out over the last while totally fried my brain, or
driven me nuts?

Judy

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:57:19 -0800
From:    Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
Subject: Re: Thanking TPTB (particularly Sci-fi)

--- Laura <Laura@o.......> wrote:
> I plan to sit through as many of the commercials as
> possible and write to the advertisers telling them
> they're smart to advertise on SCI-FI, particularly
> during FK. Does this sound like a good idea to
> anyone?
>
Sounds like an excellent idea to me, it's even
ingenious. After all, they're the ones who have the
last word when it comes to what shows make more money
and should be kept by the networks.

Sunny

=====
Countess -- Twilight Knightie,IB,DT,UF,Cotk

"Trudging through enternity, hauling my homemade horrors, do you think THAT was
my dream when I was young and evil?"

                           -Mommy Fortuna, The last Unicorn

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:02:03 +0800
From:    Elliza Rahim <relliza@h.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and religious items

Judy wrote:
<snip>If the Cross, Menorah, and the black onyx knives from Blackwing all
>have an
>effect on Nick, what would happen if he went to India and tried to drink
>cow blood? Cows are considered sacred objects there.<snip>

I think cows are sacred because they are ridden by a particular Hindu God (I
forget which) but I don't believe they have a "protective" nature. Holy ash,
used on foreheads by high-caste Hindus, would probably have an impact on
Nick.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:27:04 +0800
From:    urtikit mindless <urtikit@m.......>
Subject: Fw: [Fwd: Re: Differences between Angel & FK]

liv wrote:
> When Nick drinks cow or pig, he spends hours
> thinking like a cow or pig, I think...I remember LaCroix commenting on
> it.

Did LaCroix actually comment on Nick having bovine thoughts?
(I was tempted to say "ruminations," but .... <g>)
I know we've speculated about this on-list, but I can't recall if LC
mentioned it on-screen.

Kit
urtikit@m.......
--

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:31:49 -0600
From:    Kristin <kris1228@s.......>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Differences between Angel & FK]

No he did not, just expressed distaste.

Kristin
http://knightvision.4ever.cc
"When you only have eyes for the Knight..."

> Did LaCroix actually comment on Nick having bovine thoughts?
> (I was tempted to say "ruminations," but .... <g>)
> I know we've speculated about this on-list, but I can't recall if LC
> mentioned it on-screen.
>
> Kit
> urtikit@m.......
> --
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:29:39 -0800
From:    Klytaimnestra <klytaimnestra@s.......>
Subject: reply from Showcase

I just wrote to Showcase and got the same reply as Eve:

> Hi Laurel, thanks for writing.  "Forever Knight" has not been programmed
> into Showcase's summer schedule and as a result, will not be seen until at
> least the end of September 2002. I have forwarded your request and it's
> possible that the series will return after that.
>
> Allen Ezer
> Showcase Viewer Relations

K

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:35:52 -0600
From:    Eve Dutton <umdutto3@c.......>
Subject: Re: reply from Showcase

At least they spelled the show's name right in yours. ;)

Eve
umdutto3@c.......
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The opinions contained herein are mine, not those of the University of
Manitoba. It is the opinion of the University of Manitoba that I should be
writing my thesis.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:52:11 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Admin: List digest site problem

I just tried twice to access the list digest site,
http://members.theglobe.com/KnightWind3/forkni.htm

Both times I ended up at a completely unrelated commercial site with a different
address. If anyone knows anything about this, please contact me. Unless I hear
about it and a fix, this address and the statement about list digests will have
to e deleted from the weekly rules post.

I can't tell if there's a forward or what's going on.

Thanks!

McLisa
listowner, Forkni-l
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:59:31 -0500
From:    janette 1228 <janette1228@h.......>
Subject: About that extra loft space, lol

Nick may have collected some stuff since he got away from LaCroix but i
remember a flashback where LaCroix wouldn't let Nick take anymore with them
than 1 bag, or something like that. Maybe he used it as a museum for his own
paintings. *shrugs*

~Sierra

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:55:41 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Re: Admin: List digest site problem

McLisa, aka The Old Gray Mare (Even If I do use Clairol)<g> wrote:

>I just tried twice to access the list digest site,
>http://members.theglobe.com/KnightWind3/forkni.htm
>Both times I ended up at a completely unrelated commercial site with
> If anyone knows anything about this, please contact me.

I have now been reminded that the address changed last August and even very
kindly sent a copy of the post by Siri. Thanks, all of you, for rescuing me from
the ruins of what used to be my mind. :)

McLisa
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:26:22 -0500
From:    Stephanie Kellerman <stephke@i.......>
Subject: Re: Admin: List digest site problem

I just checked.  Theglobe.com closed its doors to member web pages August
2001.
Therefore those pages don't exist anymore.  Ony their game pages are still
up.

Steph

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:23:19 -0500
From:    Portia Eins <portia1@m.......>
Subject: NK's "Deja Vu"

I'm in the middle of re-reading (once again "g") Nancy Kaminski's "Deja Vu."  I
have to say that it is one of my all time, tip-top favorite stories, and it is
incrediably well written.  I very much enjoy her style, her skill, and her
gentle, wry, insightful touch.  I love her portrayal of both Nick and Natalie in
this story, and her take on LaCroix.  All in all, this is just a great tale!

BTW, this is rather how I wish the series had ended.  I took Nick's quest for
mortality very seriously.  I believe that he did know what he wanted and that
his dificulty in staying on course reflected more the challenges stacked against
him than any wishy-washiness or self-delusion on his part.  I wish Nick could
have found mortality in living a mortal life to the full, and not in a desparate
bargain with sudden death. :o(

Portia

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 4 Mar 2002 to 5 Mar 2002 (#2002-68)
************************************************************