FORKNI-L

FORKNI-L Digest - 3 Mar 2002 to 4 Mar 2002 (#2002-67)

Mon, 4 Mar 2002

There are 28 messages totalling 717 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Differences between Angel & FK (9)
  2. A Matter of Influence (2)
  3. FK Angel cameo
  4. Nick's extra space
  5. <No subject given>
  6. Loft lovers, here's your chance!/what's Nick hiding? (4)
  7. forever knight returns to Sci-Fi? (2)
  8. FK return to SciFi - Marathon Holiday
  9. Thanking TPTB (particularly Sci-fi) (2)
 10. Thanking advertisers
 11. LaCroix question (2)
 12. Loft lovers what's Nick hiding? (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:54:46 -0000
From:    Barbara Vainio <bevainio@w.......>
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

Emily wrote:
> 1.  There seems to be quite a difference in vampire biology. since Angel
> was able to have a child, although the mystical PTB probably had something
> to do with it, the only way a FK vampire could "reproduce" was to bring
> someone across.

This seems to be true of male FK vampires (although the only reference I can
remember specifically to that is in the trailer of some ep where Nick is
mortal and he a Nat are gushing over her being pregnant) but Serena tried to
get pregnant based on some old method that even LaCroix seemed to think
might have some truth in it.

Also, if as Jim Parriott said, FK vamps were fully functional, why couldn't
the men father children?  Is it perhaps because they tended to drain their
mates, either immediately or over time?

Barb

>

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:08:53 -0800
From:    preston kim <strawbearylover3@y.......>
Subject: A Matter of Influence

I have been working on something and got sidetracked by a question it
has raised in my mind and i am curious as to what others think about this.
What (if any) influence do you think the fact that Divia brought Lacroix
across and that she crossed the moral border for him by asking him to become her
lover had on the type of vampire in became over the centuries?
I am new to the list and am sorry if this has been discussed already.
but I am really interested in how others feel about this.

thanks

Kim

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:21:58 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

In a message dated 3/3/02 2:25:47 PM Central Standard Time,
emilymhanson@y....... writes:

<< 1.  There seems to be quite a difference in vampire biology. since Angel
was able to have a child, although the mystical PTB probably had something to
do with it, the only way a FK vampire could "reproduce" was to bring someone
across.
  >>
I missed the "Angel becoming a father thread," but it has GOT to be very rare
or Buffy would be pregnant by Spike by now. <g> Seriously, though. I think
the normal way of reproduction for vampires are the same in each series - by
biting.

Someone (Brandykit, maybe) says that vampires in BtVS can chose good over
evil and used Spike as the example. Well... Spike, like his grandsire Angel,
is a special case. He can't harm a living creature because the government
planted a chip in his head that causes severe pain if he tries. He ended up
falling in love with the Slayer (Buffy) and is very close and protective of
the women in her family. He did choose it, but I don't think he chose to be
tortured and keep secrets out of "good," but rather because it benefited him
because of his love for Buffy.

Nick does not have the benefit of a soul or a government chip. He chooses to
do good because he says it is the right thing. There's the question in FK
whether or not the vampires are "good." They have more free will, and
although most are evil individuals, there are exceptions. We don't know if
they have a soul or not (they probably don't know), and they really aren't
portrayed as demons. The BtVS vampires are demons who have taken over a dead
human's body - they are sort of half demon, but the soul has entirely been
replaced by what is unquestionably a demon. (For those who don't watch the
series, Angel's soul was restored in a Gypsy curse so he has both a demon AND
a soul... Spike is just a demon with a government chip, and he is still
capable of some VERY bad things (which he usually manages to screw up despite
himself) but the chip keeps him from killing living creatures so he's
fighting on the side of good, though only because the only way he can get out
his vampire aggression is to kill/fight his own kind and other demons).

The shows mythos are quite different, and I don't see ANGEL as being very
much like FK at all - and I just started watching it. I'd sort of avoided it
thinking it would be a poor FK off-shoot. I was wrong.

This will be a good time to advertise the list for people who are both FK
*and* Buffy the Vampire slayer fans! It is heavy on the Buffy discussion
(well, I should phrase that "Spike" discussion, but it is really for the
entire show ), but we do get into some wonderful comparison exchanges. 18 and
up ONLY, please (it is a rather adult list at times). It is called "FKSpiked"
and is hosted at Yahoogroups.

Libs
LibRatsie@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:58:47 -0800
From:    Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

--- Barbara Vainio <bevainio@w.......> wrote:

> Also, if as Jim Parriott said, FK vamps were fully
> functional, why couldn't the men father children?
> Is it perhaps because they
> tended to drain their mates, either immediately or
> over time?
>
I tend to see vampires as a different species all
together rather than humans suffering from a curse.
Because of that, it is quite reasonable that they
can't have children with mortals (cats can't have
children with dogs!) Perhaps that's how the FK
universe portrayed them as well.
As for Serena, I think the episode made it clear at
the end that what she thought to be a cure was nothing
more than a myth, and LaCroix even said it from the
beginning.

Sunny

=====
Countess -- Twilight Knightie,IB,DT,UF,Cotk

"Trudging through enternity, hauling my homemade horrors, do you think THAT was
my dream when I was young and evil?"

                           -Mommy Fortuna, The last Unicorn

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:31 -0500
From:    Lisa Williams <mystykblue@e.......>
Subject: Re: FK Angel cameo

What "Buffy" episode is everyone refering to?

I guess i'll repost this again.

<a brief shot of a figure who looked just like LaCroix standing right inside
the door and sounding very him like when he said hello. Some FK fans thought
it must be Nigel doing an uncredited cameo, but it wasn't. It probably was
an in-joke, though>.

The episode was from the 2nd season. It's called "Lie to Me". I must've
rewound and watched that scene 20 or more times. I thought the very same
thing. Ohmigod, Is that Nigel? Even though it isn't Nigel, it's obvious that
it's an ode to Lacroix and Forever Knight.
Lisa (yet another one)

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:00:21 -0500
From:    Lisa Williams <mystykblue@e.......>
Subject: Re: Nick's extra space

Kezia wondered, after hearing how big the building which FK used for Nick's
>loft really is:And what *did* he do with all the space we never got to see?
>>Flew laps the way mortals swim them? :)

"used cork storage?"
Lisa
mystykblue@e.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:51:48 -0800
From:    Emily <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

I don't watch Buffy all that much, so I missed that.  Both series were on nights
when I was taking classes for the past couple of years.  :)

Looking forward to seeing FK again.

Emily

--- Evelyn Duncan <BrandyKitt@a.......> wrote:
> What about Spike helping Buffy and Dawn during the Glory storyline?

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:33:44 -0500
From:    janette 1228 <janette1228@h.......>
Subject: <No subject given>

I want a copy too.


---------------------------------------------------------------
Date:    Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:12:29 -0800From:    Sunny LaCountess
<countessa2000@y.......>Subject: Re: Need FK help I've never heard of that
list. That must be very interesting. Please, anyone who sends it to
Judy,would you please send me a copy too?Love Sunny

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:39:20 -0800
From:    phylis sullivan <phylis_s_2000_2001@y.......>
Subject: Re: A Matter of Influence

--- preston kim <strawbearylover3@y.......> wrote:
 What (if any) influence do you think the fact that
 Divia brought Lacroix across and that she crossed the
moral border for him by asking him to become her
 lover had on the type of vampire in became over the
 centuries?

       I think to Lacroix, it was a betrayal of sorts.
 He loved her with all his heart and she destoyed that
love with her request.  No matter what he had done in
wars, to him that was the most evil act there was.
Because of that, I think he has held himself aloof
from everyone, including Janette and Nick.  Not
letting them get to close, never to see how much he
actually cares for them.  Afraid that he will be
betrayed again.  Those are my thoughts for the night.
   Yipee!  Forever Knight is back!  Phylis

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:44:26 -0800
From:    phylis sullivan <phylis_s_2000_2001@y.......>
Subject: Re: Loft lovers, here's your chance!/what's Nick hiding?

 preston kim <strawbearylover3@y.......> wrote:
Kezia Hepden <keziahepden@h.......> wrote:

  And what *did* he do with all the space we never got
 to see?
  Kezia

  Kezia:

 I have but one word for you ...........Moo
  Kim

  Actually, I like the idea of a hot tub.  Care for a
dip anyone?  Phylis

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:58:09 -0600
From:    "Nancy E. Kaminski" <nancykam@m.......>
Subject: Re: Loft lovers, here's your chance!/what's Nick hiding?

>  preston kim <strawbearylover3@y.......> wrote:
> Kezia Hepden <keziahepden@h.......> wrote:
>
>   And what *did* he do with all the space we never got
>  to see?

My theory is he was running the only vampires-only bowling alley in North
America.

Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:23:52 -0800
From:    Red <red@s.......>
Subject: Re: Loft lovers, here's your chance!/what's Nick hiding?

Nope, I'm thinking curling rink.  Vampires With Brooms

Amy

----- Original Message ----- >
> My theory is he was running the only vampires-only bowling alley in North
> America.
>
> Nancy Kaminski

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 02:28:12 -0400
From:    T Floyd <tfloyd@n.......>
Subject: Re: Loft lovers, here's your chance!/what's Nick hiding?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Red" <red@s.......>
Subject: Re: Loft lovers, here's your chance!/what's Nick hiding?


> Nope, I'm thinking curling rink.  Vampires With Brooms
> Amy

Two sports that always go together in Canada are golf and curling (seasonal
things).  He's running a curling club with an indoor driving range and mini
golf course (and of course Vachon drops by regularly to hone his mini golf
skills!)

Lap

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:50:50 -0800
From:    Klytaimnestra <klytaimnestra@s.......>
Subject: forever knight returns to Sci-Fi?

This if fantabulous!  I haven't been reading my email lately, just storing
it for later.  Sorry it's not going to be on in Canada, but the US is a
bigger audience, which is good - that's wonderful!  Especially since I kind
of want to write a sequel to the fanfic which has generated the most
interest so far (my only attempt at smut, "Cold Comfort"), but was
hesitating because I thought, who would want to read it?  People are falling
away and losing interest ... but now all that will change! Great.  Delighted
to hear it.  I'll stop burbling now...

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:38:00 -0500
From:    Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
Subject: Re: FK return to SciFi - Marathon Holiday

> > For anyone looking a reason to give their boss to stay home and watch on
> > April 1st - here's a list of a few holidays listed for that day.
> > Any more?

Some old friends have come in from out of town.

        Tim
         Tim Phillips
 timp@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:18:55 -0500
From:    liv <liv@z.......>
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:25:17 -0800, Emily <emilymhanson@y.......>
wrote:

>While I haven't seen every single Angel episode, I have been watching it lately.
>Here are some differences between Angel & FK that I have noticed.
>
>1.  There seems to be quite a difference in vampire biology. since Angel was
>able to have a child, although the mystical PTB probably had something to do
>with it, the only way a FK vampire could "reproduce" was to bring someone across.
--------------
No one is sure how Angel managed that, and it has never been
explained, really. There are some other real differences, though.
Buffyverse vampires can eat and drink all matter of food, and do at
will, although some like it better than others, and Angel says that it
tastes better when you're alive. Spike adds Wheatabix to his blood.
Buffyverse vampires also get drunk and use drugs, more of less
normally, although they probably have a higher resistance to the
drugs.

Also, there has never been any evidence that any belief system or loss
of memory, in the Buffyverse, would cause a vampire to be able to walk
in the sun.
----------------------------
>2.  Also, another difference is that vampires in the Buffy/Angel universe seem
>to have no capacity for choosing between good and evil acts (with the exception
>of Angel).  OTOH, FK vampires can.
--------------
Yes, and in the last season of FK it seemed clear that vampires have
souls, and damned souls (to boot).

In Angel: There is a fair bit of evidence that while demons don't have
souls, many of them lead fine, law abiding lives. There was an earlier
Angel where a demonologist is marrying into a family of demons. The
family runs a restaurant, and are apparently perfectly integrated into
human society. Even so, they want to follow tradition and sacrifice
her ex husband before the marriage. They are law abiding, and mostly
good people, but some distinctions escape them. In Buffy, Angel is
pulled out of the gutter (he is brought down by the memory of his evil
deeds) by a demon who describes himself as a demon, but not the enemy
of The Powers that Be, he wants to keep good and evil (or law and
chaos, more like) balanced, so that the normal human world will
continue to exist (he likes good food and beer). In Buffy and Angel
demons can do good (even vampires), but for different reasons than
ensouled creatures might do good.

liv
liv@g.......
take out the garbage to reply...

If you can't beat your computer at chess try kickboxing.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:55:58 -0800
From:    Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

I think it is appropriate to also point out that there
are no demons present in FK. Only vampires and perhaps
some ghosts. Buffyverse is filled with all sorts of
demons, which is fun in a way and could be used as a
metaphor for different races. However, I like FK's
premise of vampires living amongst us in disguise
better, it gives it a more believable, more realistic
appeal.

LaCountess


=====
Countess -- Twilight Knightie,IB,DT,UF,Cotk

"Trudging through enternity, hauling my homemade horrors, do you think THAT was
my dream when I was young and evil?"

                           -Mommy Fortuna, The last Unicorn

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:29:56 -0500
From:    Laura <Laura@o.......>
Subject: Re: Thanking TPTB (particularly Sci-fi)

I'm too shy to post much. So I mostly read, and pine away
for FK.

But I wanted to thank you for posting this information. I've
sent sporadic letters to TPTB asking for FK to come back.
Now, thanks to you, it was easy to write my letters to thank
them for giving us what we asked for!

I plan to sit through as many of the commercials as possible
and write to the advertisers telling them they're smart to
advertise on SCI-FI, particularly during FK. Does this sound
like a good idea to anyone?

Kristin wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Here's all the addresses you need, both snail mail and e-mail to thank the
> powers that be for returning our show to the USA. Be sure to especially
> write Sci-fi. This is a semi-form of the regular blitzes.
>

<snipped>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:09:10 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Thanking advertisers

Laura wrote:

>write to the advertisers telling them they're smart to
advertise on SCI-FI, particularly during FK. Does this sound
like a good idea to anyone? <

We used to do this when the show was still on the air, especially when we were
trying to keep it there. Yes, it's a great idea. Good thinking, Laura!

McLisa
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:11:43 -0500
From:    Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
Subject: Re: Thanking TPTB (particularly Sci-fi)

> I plan to sit through as many of the commercials as possible
> and write to the advertisers telling them they're smart to
> advertise on SCI-FI, particularly during FK. Does this sound
> like a good idea to anyone?
   SciFi exists to sell airtime.
   If their customers (the advertisers) say "boy, we got a lot of response
from this Endless Knight thingie!  Can we get more?" it can only be a
good thing

                Tim Tim Phillips
 timp@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:12:16 -0800
From:    Sara Rediske <saladbats@h.......>
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

>I think it is appropriate to also point out that there
>are no demons present in FK. Only vampires and perhaps
>some ghosts.

What about the season 3 episode where Nick is possessed by the demon?

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:26:54 -0500
From:    Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

 > What about the season 3 episode where Nick is possessed by the demon?
        Technically, it was a bad hang-over.
        You see, the bottle of moo-juice that Nick slurped down that
evening was contaminated by Mad-cow disease.  The rest was just
vampire delusions.

                Tim
 Tim Phillips
 timp@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:32:12 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Differences between Angel & FK

In a message dated Mon, 4 Mar 2002  1:13:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sara
Rediske <saladbats@h.......> writes:


> What about the season 3 episode where Nick is possessed by the demon?
>
True, but in the Buffyverse, demons don't just occasionally possess people, but
are different "breeds" and types of demons, and seem to be everywhere. Some
aren't evil, most seem to be. And the vampires ARE demons, whereas in FK, they
don't seem to be.

Two totally different but wonderful universes where vampires, different in each
one, exist and roam the Earth.

By the way, someone indicated that in the Buffyverse, the vampires aren't
"disguised" and don't live as humans. They very well could pass, actually, since
they can eat food and do more "human" things than even the FK vampires. They
just don't seem to do so as much, from what I've seen.

Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:58:10 EST
From:    KnghtWtch@a.......
Subject: Re: LaCroix question

Could someone please tell me if the era Lacroix lived in would be called the
"Bacchanalian Era?"

Thanks,

KnightWitch;-]=

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:38:22 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix question

>Could someone please tell me if the era Lacroix lived in would be >called the
>"Bacchanalian Era?"

 No, because by the time Lucius was brought across, 79 A.D., the Bacchanalia no
longer existed. Here is the definition of Bacchanalia from the 6th ed. of the
Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th ed.

>" in Roman religion, festival in honor of Bacchus, god of wine. Originally a
religious ceremony, like the Liberalia, it gradually became an occasion for
drunken, licentious excesses and was finally forbidden by law (186 B.C.).<

McLisa, who had to look this one up for the date
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:00:41 -0500
From:    Lisa Williams <mystykblue@e.......>
Subject: Re: forever knight returns to Sci-Fi?

 <<<Especially since I kind
of want to write a sequel to the fanfic which has generated the most
interest so far (my only attempt at smut, "Cold Comfort"), but was
hesitating because I thought, who would want to read it?>>>

I will! How dare you hold out on a sequel!  And it wasn't just smut. It was
great smut. More! More!<BG>
Lisa
mystykblue@e.......
Nigel Bennett Lustmember,
Cousin,NA/Lacroixsforum,Val,
FK Spiked, ASH GASPer
Kenneth Irons/Anthony Cistaro Fanclub

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:50:12 +1300
From:    Knightraven <kiwisun@i.......>
Subject: Re: Loft lovers what's Nick hiding?

> And what *did* he do with all the space we never got to see?
> I have but one word for you ...........Moo

Toronto! Where men are vampires and cows are nervous! LOL!

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:52:44 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Loft lovers what's Nick hiding?

In a message dated Mon, 4 Mar 2002  3:48:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Knightraven <kiwisun@i.......> writes:

> Toronto! Where men are vampires and cows are nervous! LOL!>>

And the rats cower in terror whenever they hear a Cockney-ish accent!

Libs

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 3 Mar 2002 to 4 Mar 2002 (#2002-67)
************************************************************