FORKNI-L

FORKNI-L Digest - 22 Mar 2001 to 23 Mar 2001 (#2001-94)

Fri, 23 Mar 2001

There are 19 messages totalling 553 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. LaCroix and rotted fish sauce (2)
  2. Rasputin (3)
  3. what does LaCroix like? (2)
  4. Kyer is unavailable til Monday
  5. Natsuko Ohama a Bridging
  6. Vivendi/Universal  Update (2)
  7. I'm recruiting... :)
  8. Strange FK related dream (5)
  9. vampire in Chinese and a culinary question
 10. How did Nick handle all the icons?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:02:58 -0800
From:    fkforever <fkforever@y.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix and rotted fish sauce

<<I think the recipe for garum does exist; I'm pretty sure I've read it &
evenhave it around somewhere>>

http://www.loofa.com/~gene/garum.html

Recipe and history

GARUM (Liquamen)

"Garum is the name of an extremely popular liquid. Garum is made from fish
intestines and other parts of the fish that are otherwise thrown out. The
fish parts are softened in salt in such a way that garum is the result of
their decomposition... With the exception of perfumes, there is nothing
that is as expensive as garum... Famous for their manufacture of garum are
the cities of Klazomenai, Pompeii, and Leptis." (Pliny XXXI 43)
 Garum or liquamen was an indispensable ingredient in Roman cooking: it
occurs in practically every recipe in Apicius' cookbook. Since there is no
equivalent to garum in modern times it has been left untranslated. Garum
was a sort of fish sauce. The explanation for its wide use in Roman
cuisine is simply that it was used instead of salt. In addition to the
brief recipe cited above by Pliny, there are several others preserved, and
there is reason to quote them here.

 "Garum, which is also called liquamen, is made in the following way: Fish
intestines are put in a container and salted. Take small fish, either lite
multe or anchovies, or any other kinds of small fish, and let them dry in
the sun, shaking them frequently. When they have been dried by the warmth,
extract the garum as follows: take a long, finely woven basket and put it
in the middle of the container with the above-mentioned fish, and the
liquamen will seep into the basket. What is left over is allec (which
see)."

 The Bithynians do it in the following way: Take two parts salt to one
part of fish, and mix it well so the fish can absorb the salt. Let it
stand overnight. Then put it in a clay pot, which should stand in the sun
for two or three months. and stir it with a stick now and then. Then take
it, put a lid on it and store it. Some people add aged wind, two sextan
for one sextar of fish.

 The best kind of garum, called haimation, is made as follows: Take
intestines, juices, blood and gills of tuna fish and add plenty of salt.
And let it stand in a vessel for no longer than two months. Then put holes
in the vessel, and the garum called haimation will run out.

 If you want to use the garum immediately, that is, not set it out in the
sun but boil it, proceed as follows. Take a salt solution and test its
strength by breaking an egg into it. if it sinks the solution contains the
right amount of salt. Put the fish in the salt solution in a new clay pot,
add marjoram and put it over a strong fire until it begins to boil. i.e.
is educed. Some people also add defrutum (see "must"). Let it cool and
then strain it two or three times until it is clear. Seal it and put it
away. (Geoponica bib. 20, chapter 46)

 The basic garum could then be diluted with various liquids: hydrogarum or
garum with water; oenogarum, garum with wine, and oxygarum, garum with
vinegar. Where these words are used in Apicius they have not been
translated.

 To give some sort of explanation of what garum actually was, people
usually compare the ancient fish sauce with various English spice sauces
such as Worchestershire sauce. A Swedish reader is probably struck by
another parallel to garum: surströmming. "Surströmming is prepared by
putting fresh stromming in a concentrated salt solution for a day. It is
then taken out, the gills are removed, and the fish put into fresh water
until it has run off, then put into barrels and salted, about 1 1/3 liters
of salt to a fjarding (18 liters, translators comment). Over that is pured
12% salt solution. the stromming barrel is then rolled out into the sun
and left there until the herring begin to ferment. The barrel is then
rolled under a roof and kept in a shaded place for 6 or 7 weeks.
Surstromming, despite its hardly pleasing aroma, is particularly popular
especially in Norrland (Nordisk Familjebok, Stockholm 1918).

 The similarity is so obvious that one is almost tempted to believe that
surströmming is a modern version of garum. Antique sources often mention
that garum smelled anything but good. Fanatic surströmming lovers, for
that matter, are said to be particularly fond of the liquid that the fish
has been lying in. "

=====
Desiree

www.knighties.50megs.com
UFfer, UA, UT, NNpacker

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:26:55 -0600
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@m.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix and rotted fish sauce

> fkforever wrote:

> <<I think the recipe for garum does exist; I'm pretty sure I've read it &
> evenhave it around somewhere>>
>
> http://www.loofa.com/~gene/garum.html

I must say these all sound particularly revolting---of course, I don't eat
fish of any kind, so I'm not the best judge in the world.

I wonder if Vietnamese fish sauce is something like garum? It's salty and
rather strong tasting. And I wonder if the mortal Lucius would have
appreciated lutefisk (herring rotted in lye and served at Christmas in
Scandinavian countries and, alas, Minnesota).

Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:56:15 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Rasputin

LaCountess wrote:
>>I agree but don't you think the idea of Rasputin being a vampire would
solve most of the mysteries surrounding his character. <snip><<

Oh, it certainly would!  And the connection with Tsarevitch Alexei's
hemophilia is just *too* delicious.  If they'd been able to flesh out the
flashback a little more, it might have worked for me, but just having guards
march in and shoot him ruined it, IMHO.

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
NA Forever!
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:07:23 -0000
From:    Barbara Vainio <bevainio@w.......>
Subject: Re: what does LaCroix like?

StormBorn wrote:

> IIRC, the only ep in which Janette was 'disobedient,' however, was Father's
> Day.

I think I might also consider her actions in leaving Toronto at the beginning
of season 3 to be pretty disobedient - at least in LC's view.  And I got the
feeling that Janette's willingness to arbor "strays" wasn't the thing
LaCroix would most have wanted her to do.  Although I don't really have
anything specific to back that up.  I would also think that Janette's
support of Nick would be less than pleasing to her father.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:45:23 -0700
From:    Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Kyer is unavailable til Monday

due to an out-of-town wedding.  If anyone else needs story parts for Of
Knight & Death you can find the whole thing at Steph's site:
ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/kyer_en_ysh/of_knight_and_death.txt

Rotted fish?  [garum sauce] Ugh!  No wonder LaCroix always looks so... sour.
You are what you eat.  (which explains why I'm a fruit who'se nuts.)

;)=
Kyer, kyer@p.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:12:31 -0800
From:    Ith <ithildin@o.......>
Subject: Re: Natsuko Ohama a Bridging

At 05:20 AM 03/22/2001 -0800, Lisa McDavid wrote:
>Quoth Natsuko: "Who _are_ you people?"
>The next item -- I've forgotten what it was -- went
>even higher, causing her to gasp, "you people are
>crazy!"

That's how I remember it too. Gads, it seems like so long ago!

(I think it was the rat bidding that blew her mind) (she was a real sweetheart)


Denise * ithildin@o.......* Ith
http://www.ondragonswing.com
Dragon's Hoard Fic Archive
http://www.ondragonswing.com/vortex
Drop by to read, or submit a story!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:45:59 -0800
From:    Marilyn Teplitz <zeor1@y.......>
Subject: Re: Vivendi/Universal  Update

> Then he made sure she knew the on-line community wants
> FK back or on DVD and merchandise.


Some of us don't have DVD players and would really love to have FK on VHS.
Don't forget about us!


Marilyn
*************
Terminal Vaquera
"Who's that blonde guy talking to Vachon?"
Never go barefoot to a snake stomping.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Mar 2001 02:26:23 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: what does LaCroix like?

Barbara V. wrote:
>>I think I might also consider her actions in leaving Toronto at the
beginning of season 3 to be pretty disobedient - at least in LC's view.<<

He didn't seem to be upset with her.  I think Janette has often wandered off
on her own for awhile, and LC doesn't mind because he knows that 1) she'll
come back, and 2) that she's not running away from him as Nick does.

>>I would also think that Janette's support of Nick would be less than
pleasing to her father.<<

One of the things I love about Janette is how she sometimes serves as a
buffer between the two.  I feel (although it's not canon) that Janette and
LaCroix understand each other more than Nick and LaCroix.

I view LaCroix as logical, Janette as pragmatic, and Nick as
impulsive--which makes for a very interesting family dynamic!

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
NA Forever!
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Mar 2001 07:42:59 -0800
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Re: Vivendi/Universal  Update

And books!  Don't forget books!

--- Marilyn Teplitz <zeor1@y.......> wrote:
> Then he made sure she knew the on-line community wants
> FK back or on DVD and merchandise.


=====
Emily Hanson
New FK Fanfic Addy - http://fkfanfic.fanspace.com
Main website - http://www.starbase-eprime.com
Web Graphics - http://www.galaxyofimages.com
ICQ# 73113057

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:00:36 -0800
From:    "K. C. Smith" <tigrlady2u@j.......>
Subject: Re: I'm recruiting... :)

Desiree writes:  Great idea KC.!!!!
Silver writes: that is a simply brilliant idea! three cheers from Silver
(new lurker on list)
Lucie writes: that sounds great!

>> Thanks everyone!

KC Smith
tigrlady2u@j.......
Nick/Natpacker with Dark Knightie tendencies.
"I've never met a chocolate I didn't like."

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Mar 2001 07:58:33 -0800
From:    Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
Subject: Re: Rasputin

--- StormBorn <smolly4@q.......> wrote:
> If they'd been able to flesh out the
> flashback a little more, it might have worked for me, but just having
> guards march in and shoot him ruined it, IMHO.
>
Actually I was tempted to write an alternate version of that flashback in
a story, but wanted to make Rasputin an ancient (sort of around LaCroix's
age) and a lot more powerful and chilling (wasn't that the way he actually
was?) That would have given me the chance to explain everything exactly as
it had happened saved for adding Nick and LaCroix for more fun. I'm still
pondering the idea, maybe I'll write it once my current FK novel is finished.

=====
Countess -- Devoted Knightie, Immortal Beloved, Dark Trinity, with UF and
Enforcement tendencies

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:48:56 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Rasputin

Countess wrote:
>> Actually I was tempted to write an alternate version of that flashback in
a story, but wanted to make Rasputin an ancient (sort of around LaCroix's
age) and a lot more powerful and chilling (wasn't that the way he actually
was?)<<

According to reports, he was very charismatic, also.  He received a lot of
criticism and was the target of much suspicion for entertaining women at his
home.  Bear in mind that Rasputin was a 'starets,' a sort of
priest-without-a-parish, and therefore he got away with a lot more than an
ordinary man would.

>>That would have given me the chance to explain everything exactly as it
had happened saved for adding Nick and LaCroix for more fun. I'm still
pondering the idea, maybe I'll write it once my current FK novel is
finished.<<

I'd really look forward to reading it.

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
NA Forever!
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:36:57 EST
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Strange FK related dream

Truly bizarre.  I had a dream last night in which I was engaged
to someone who at first was not in the dream, but showed up
later and looked like Nigel.  It's not as good as it sounds,
because he turned out to be a cross between a Nazi and an
alien with a flesh eating appendage that came out of his
stomach. I'm really going to have to have a talk with my
subconcious.  LOL

Laurie of the Isles

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:48:38 -0600
From:    "Christella M. Stillman" <cstillma@u.......>
Subject: Re: Strange FK related dream

At 03:36 PM 3/23/2001 EST, Laudon1965@a....... wrote:
>Truly bizarre.  I had a dream last night in which I was engaged
>to someone who at first was not in the dream, but showed up
>later and looked like Nigel.  It's not as good as it sounds,
>because he turned out to be a cross between a Nazi and an
>alien with a flesh eating appendage that came out of his
>stomach. I'm really going to have to have a talk with my
>subconcious.  LOL
>
>Laurie of the Isles
>

Well, you know NB DID portray a flesh-eating alien in "Top of the Food
Chain."  <BG>  I was so glad they showed the movie at LCA, otherwise I
probably never would have seen it.  Some people thought it was downright
stupid, but it was CAMP.  It was MEANT to be over the top!  I was LMAO.  <BG>

Christy
cstillma@u.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:54:51 EST
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: Strange FK related dream

In a message dated 3/23/01 1:48:39 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
cstillma@u....... writes:

<< Well, you know NB DID portray a flesh-eating alien in "Top of the Food
 Chain."  <BG>  >>

That's true, but I've never seen it.  And he was a reincarnated Nazi
in an ep of Friday the 13th.  Doesn't matter though, I'm still gonna
read my subconcious the riot act.  <g>

Laurie of the Isles

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:59:14 -0600
From:    "Christella M. Stillman" <cstillma@u.......>
Subject: Re: Strange FK related dream

You know, that reminds me, I had a really bizarre dream about FK a year or
so ago.  Something about alien vampires that only certain people with
psychic abilities could see (I was one such <BG>).  They were going around
killing off all the vampires in our little FK universe.  I swore I was going
to sit down and write the thing out as a piece of fanfic, but it's going to
need reworking.  The whole dream was MAJORLY "Mary Sue."  <G>

Christy
cstillma@u.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:09:52 EST
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: vampire in Chinese and a culinary question

In a message dated 3/21/01 10:11:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
emilymhanson@y....... writes:

<< xixiequi or xixue bianfu (x's are prounced like sh in Chinese) >>

So that makes that pronounced something like sheeshkabob?
Isn't getting sheeshkabobbed the sort of thing vampires usually avoid?
Except for LaCroix who was sheeshked by a flaming kabob and still came back
in the second season.  ;-)

Casting T. F. Stone  / Caddywhacked
read my FK book at ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/
Read my V4S story: By the Book

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:16:37 EST
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: How did Nick handle all the icons?

In a message dated 3/22/01 3:36:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
smolly4@q....... writes:

<<  Churches everywhere, everybody wearing crucifixes, icons in
 every home--how on earth did Nick handle it? >>

I say the same thing one uses to protect oneself from
nuclear detonations: Duck and Cover!
If mortals wear crucifixes to ward off vamps, what could a clever vamp use to
ward off mortals?

Casting T. F. Stone  / Caddywhacked
read my FK book at ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/
Read my V4S story: By the Book

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:12:37 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Strange FK related dream

Christy wrote, re her FK dream:
>>Something about alien vampires that only certain people with psychic
abilities could see (I was one such <BG>).  <snip> I swore I was going to
sit down and write the thing out as a piece of fanfic, but it's going to
need reworking.  The whole dream was MAJORLY "Mary Sue."  <G><<

What if you make Natalie the one who could see the alien vampires?  It would
be interesting to see her deal with her previous-unsuspected abilities all
the while she was trying to convince Nick, LaCroix, et al. that she wasn't
imagining things.

Just a suggestion...

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
NA Forever!
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q.......

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 22 Mar 2001 to 23 Mar 2001 (#2001-94)
**************************************************************