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FORKNI-L Digest - 17 Mar 2001 to 18 Mar 2001 (#2001-87)

Sun, 18 Mar 2001

There are 22 messages totalling 777 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Blood Pudding (was: Strange Foreign Foodstuffs) (2)
  2. Copyright, FK fanfiction and money
  3. Nick's semi-solid diet (Was: Strange Foreign Foodstuffs ...) (3)
  4. Tripod Websites (2)
  5. Copyrights and Tripod fan sites (3)
  6. My new mirror site
  7. My Tripod site
  8. my FK site at Geocities
  9. Lycos feedback
 10. Lycos and fansites (4)
 11. Admin: Some fanfic sites in danger
 12. Fw: Admin:  FORKNI-L Rules
 13. Schanke's ethnicity

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:56:17 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Blood Pudding (was: Strange Foreign Foodstuffs)

>>Didn't Nick eat hamburger once?  Um... in the pilot, maybe - I seem to
recall him picking at a pan of *something*.  <snip> "Now, Nick, put that
horrid bottle of blood down.  Look, I've got this nice big plate of broccoli
for you...."<<

LOL--that would make Nick swear off wanting to be mortal, wouldn't it?  Yes,
I think in the pilot he took a couple pecks at some hamburger, grimaced, and
gave it up.

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
NA Forever!
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:44:55 -0800
From:    "M. Vrzoc" <A_Boleyn@e.......>
Subject: Re: Copyright, FK fanfiction and money

In a recent post, someone mentioned that there hadn't been any connection
between FK fanfic and money.

I am reminded that the fourth FK "novel" received a cease and desist
publishing order from SONY and actually resulted in fans who had bought the
paperback being told to return the book to the author/publisher? for
confiscation and presumably destruction. SONY's plans to publish this novel
fell through and, when the writer tried to self publish, SONY used its legal
copyright to force the writer to withdraw the book.

Please note that I am extending the term fanfic, in this case, to refer to a
work of fiction, written by a fan and incidentally of a high enough quality
that the author was offered a professional contract to publish.

So, if THEY can't make money, or actually REFUSE to make money by publishing
the fanfic, copyright holders for these shows can STILL take such steps.

M. Vrzoc
A_Boleyn@e.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 18:29:40 -0800
From:    Lady Ariake <lady_ariake@y.......>
Subject: Nick's semi-solid diet (Was: Strange Foreign Foodstuffs ...)

--- Dark-Dancer <sapphicstone@y.......> wrote:
> Marmite is vile whether you're British or not ;) I
> cannot stand that stuff.

Um....::hesitantly raises hand:: I like Marmite.  I
got hooked on Vegemite on toast when touring in
Australia with our University orchestra last year, and
I was thrilled to find the British equivalent at my
local supermarket.  Maybe I'm just a salt freak.

Now, Schanke may have been able to come up with
something edible for Nick without knowing it.  (Schank
was Polish, correct? At least he seems so in several
fics!  I've not seen many episodes.)

As a Pole, I present: Czarnina.  We don't make it here
much because the main ingredient's a pain to come
by-it's fresh duck, goose, or pig's blood.  Add spare
ribs, a bouquet garnis (omit the garlic for Nick's
sake!) some vinigar, and sweet cream.  Some other
stuff, too, but for Nick's tender tummy I'd omit the
prunes, dried apples and raisins, at least at first.
You have duck blood soup.  According to my father,
whose parents came from Poland, it's very good.
Personally, I don't have the heart to slit a duck's
throat and don't know a butcher who'll sell blood, but
Nick is getting the bovine from somewhere--there's no
reason he couldn't get pig.  It's real, human food
even if the main ingredient is still blood that.  Pair
that with some blood sausage and a protein shake for
dessert, and there you go--a full meal for a hungry
vampire.

Jennifer


=====
"Vampirism--it does a body good!" Tom Servo, reviewing "The Wild World of Bat
Woman"

If Anita doesn't want to be Jean-Claude's human servant, can I volunteer?

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 20:29:14 -0600
From:    eowyn3@j.......
Subject: Tripod Websites

Hi Y'all!

In case anyone hasn't heard, if you have a fanfiction site with Tripod
you'd better check and see if it's still there and if it is, get it
saved.  A huge website for Hercules fanfiction (personal friend owns it
and I've been getting a running account of what's going on all day<G>)
was deleted last night without advance warning.  The same thing is
happening to other fanfiction sites.  When my friend tried to get into
her site today she got a message from Tripod that the Terms of Service
agreement had been violated, with no other explanation.  I've gotten
messages from another list that some Due South, The Sentinel and
Magnificent 7 sites have been deleted.

Let's protect our FK fanfiction sites!

Terri
eowyn3@j.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:22:46 -0800
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Copyrights and Tripod fan sites

I have heard, though I am not sure it is true, that Tripod is cracking down on
fan sites.  If you have a Forever Knight site on Tripod or Angelfire or
subsidiaries, you would be wise to back up your files just in case!

Emily

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 21:31:40 -0600
From:    Lisa Luksus <tokaara@m.......>
Subject: Re: Tripod Websites

At 08:29 PM 3/17/01, eowyn3@j....... wrote:
>Hi Y'all!
>
>In case anyone hasn't heard, if you have a fanfiction site with Tripod
>you'd better check and see if it's still there and if it is, get it
>saved.

I just heard about this one of my Stargate lists.  The following additional
info was given:

<<If your site is already gone, you may be able to retrieve lost pages from
Google's cache, go to Google and search for your site and then click on the
Cache link.  But you gotta work fast before Google updates their cache.

Other companies that are owned by Lycos (the parent company named)
Tripod
Lycos Communications
Angelfire
Quote.com
Whowhere?
Lycos Gamesville
Hot Bot
Hot Wired
html GEAR
Sonique Media Player
webmonkey
Wired News
Matchmaker>>

Does this affect any of our War archives?  Dunno if that would be
considered fanfic or not, but we should have backups, just in case.


Cousin Tok
and the Cousinly kitties
tokaara@m....... / AIM Tokaara / ICQ 46441308

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 22:39:39 EST
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: Copyrights and Tripod fan sites

In a message dated 3/17/01 8:23:00 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
emilymhanson@y....... writes:

<< I have heard, though I am not sure it is true, that Tripod is cracking
down on fan sites. >>

It needs to be stressed that they are nixing not just fanfiction sites, but
any site dedicated to a copyrighted show, movie or book.  So even if you just
have pics or wavs up, you're vulnerable.

Laurie of the Isles

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 22:48:26 -0500
From:    Emily Lacey <laceye@a.......>
Subject: Re: Blood Pudding (was: Strange Foreign Foodstuffs)

>LOL--that would make Nick swear off wanting to be mortal, wouldn't it?  Yes,
>I think in the pilot he took a couple pecks at some hamburger, grimaced, and
>gave it up.

Didn't he toss it in the trash?

Thinking that blood in meat comes out as pan drippings, and you use
pan drippings to make gravy, I wonder if Nick would be able to handle
gravy? Then just slowly add pureed mushrooms and hamburger and he'd
be eating real food in no time.
--
Emily Lacey
laceye@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 20:35:54 -0800
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: My new mirror site

I backed up all my files from Geocities, just in case Geocities decides to crack
down on fan sites too, and made a mirror site at fanspace.  I figured it couldn't
hurt.

http://fkfanfic.fanspace.com/ is the address.

Emily

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 21:49:41 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: My Tripod site

I backed up my site to my hard drive and will close down the Tripod site in
a day or two, so if you have anything archived at the Inn of Crossed Swords
that you don't have a copy of, please download it to your computer before
then.

I'm doing this not only as a precautionary measure, but also as a sort of
protest.  I'll be looking around for a better free host, and if I don't find
one, I'll just wait until I can afford to get my own domain and a host that
is more liberal.

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
NA Forever!
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 23:30:12 -0600
From:    Kristin <kris1228@s.......>
Subject: Re: Copyrights and Tripod fan sites

Yes, back-ups of your sites are always a smart thing to have. Xoom/NBCi
members should also definately have these too. For any who have tryed to
visit my site the last several days, it is down from xoom's recent failure
of some of their sites. Mine was among them and currently can not be
accessed. They responded to an e-mail I sent them and said they are working
to fix the problem, so hopefully my site will be back soon.

Kristin
http://knightvision.4ever.cc
"When you only have eyes for the Knight..."

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 21:41:55 -0800
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: my FK site at Geocities

Don't be alarmed if you go through the front door of my web site at Geocities
and discover the fiction link goes to a different page.  The Forever Knight
stuff is still there, if you bookmarked it, you're safe.  I'm not removing it
unless some official type person tells me to (or I start running out of room!).
However, my main FK site is going to be at fanspace.  My fiction link now
goes to a page with my original, nonFK, sci-fi and fantasy fiction.

Here is that addy again:

http://fkfanfic.fanspace.com

And my site at Geocities:

http://www.starbase-eprime.com

Emily M. Hanson

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Mar 2001 23:11:30 -0700
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Nick's semi-solid diet (Was: Strange Foreign Foodstuffs ...)

Jennifer wrote:
> Um....::hesitantly raises hand:: I like Marmite.

'S okay--I like pickled herring, which a lot of people can't stand.  And
don't get a can of tuna anywhere near me, please!

>>Now, Schanke may have been able to come up with something edible for Nick
without knowing it.  (Schank was Polish, correct? At least he seems so in
several fics!  I've not seen many episodes.)<<

Despite the German last name, he certainly seemed Polish to me (and that's a
compliment!).

>>As a Pole, I present: Czarnina.  We don't make it here much because the
main ingredient's a pain to come by-it's fresh duck, goose, or pig's
blood.<<

Where I used to live (in Phoenix) there was a Polish butcher/deli across the
street.  Yum!  You might try to look for a similar place in your nearest
large city.
<snip what sounds like a delicious recipe>

>>Pair that with some blood sausage and a protein shake for dessert, and
there you go--a full meal for a hungry vampire.<<

That's not a bad idea, and how about steak tartare or raw liver for an
appetizer?Move over, Nat--FK fandom to the rescue!

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
NA Forever!
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Mar 2001 05:00:45 -0500
From:    Melissa Puzio <crimsonkisses@t.......>
Subject: Re: Nick's semi-solid diet (Was: Strange Foreign Foodstuffs ...)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lady Ariake" <lady_ariake@y.......>
To: <FORKNI-L@l.......>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 9:29 PM
Subject: Nick's semi-solid diet (Was: Strange Foreign Foodstuffs ...)
> As a Pole, I present: Czarnina.  We don't make it here
> much because the main ingredient's a pain to come
> by-it's fresh duck, goose, or pig's blood.  Add spare
> ribs, a bouquet garnis (omit the garlic for Nick's
> sake!) some vinigar, and sweet cream.  Some other
> stuff, too, but for Nick's tender tummy I'd omit the
> prunes, dried apples and raisins, at least at first.
> You have duck blood soup.  According to my father,
> whose parents came from Poland, it's very good.
> Personally, I don't have the heart to slit a duck's
> throat and don't know a butcher who'll sell blood, but
> Nick is getting the bovine from somewhere--there's no
> reason he couldn't get pig.  It's real, human food
> even if the main ingredient is still blood that.  Pair
> that with some blood sausage and a protein shake for
> dessert, and there you go--a full meal for a hungry
> vampire.

Maybe Nat could make some for Nick like my Polish great grandma used to fool
my dad.  She'd take the easy way out make some chicken soup with ketchup
thrown in to garnish, voila!  Of course my dad was kinda po'ed when he found
out what she did <g>

Mel aka Wolverina
crimsonkisses@t.......  ICQ# 24978740
*Cousin*Valentine*Immortal Beloved*Dark Knightie*NatVampCamp*
*Vamp #61,Keeper of John Strauss's bicolored eyes

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Mar 2001 06:27:11 -0800
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Lycos feedback

https://www.lycos.com/feedback/ Is a link to their feedback form.  I suggest you
e-mail them a letter of protest for taking down fan sites.

Emily

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Mar 2001 07:29:50 -0800
From:    Lady Ariake <lady_ariake@y.......>
Subject: Re: Lycos and fansites

--- Marel Darby <Frostsaint2@a.......> wrote:
> Does this action by Lycos herald the start of a major crackdown by
> other companies on all fansites with unauthorised material, so that no
> host will dare to give it a home?

Yahoo! Geocities has never, to my knowledge,
threatened a crackdown on fanfiction.  (If they do,
I'll just move my site to my earthlink space.)  I
honestly have the feeling they're having enough
problems making money that doing anything to PO their
users is too big a risk right now.

Obviously, if you have the money, registering your own
domain name is an option.  Fanfiction.net, for one
general site, is on its own server, so if someone
wants to come after them it'll have to be the
trademark holders themselves.

In terms of copyright/trademark holders (and
unfortunately this doesn't help for FK) starwars.com
fansites had a huge flap over their original TOS and
modified it so that, while not openly fanfic friendly,
does not crack down on fanfic sites on the
starwars.com server.  And their official magazine, the
Star Wars Insider, has now said twice that fanfic
shared on the Internet *so long as it is NOT for
profit of any kind* will be left alone by Lucasfilm.
At least one trademark owner has decided it's not
worth the bad PR cracking down on fan fic will bring
them.  Hopefully, other owners will get the
message--for a TV show or movie, irritating the fans
is not worth cutting off fan fic.  (I do understand
why writers like Anne Rice and Anne McCaffrey want to
crack down--books are different.  Though, of course,
IWTV is a movie and Dragonriders is going to be a TV
show, meaning they're in the fair game category now,
too.  IMHO.)



=====
"Vampirism--it does a body good!" Tom Servo, reviewing "The Wild World of Bat
Woman"

If Anita doesn't want to be Jean-Claude's human servant, can I volunteer?

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Mar 2001 07:45:22 -0800
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Re: Lycos and fansites

Some computer game companies have released images and sounds (3DO and Activision
I can think of) especially for fan sites.  If TV and movie makers got smart,
they could do that too!
Definately Forever Knight could use some official fan support!

Emily
--- Marel Darby <Frostsaint2@a.......> wrote:
> Does this action by Lycos herald the start of a major crackdown by
> other companies on all fansites with unauthorised material, so that no
> host will dare to give it a home?

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:51:44 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Lycos and fansites

In a message dated 3/18/01 9:30:20 AM Central Standard Time,
lady_ariake@y....... writes:

> Though, of course,
>  IWTV is a movie and Dragonriders is going to be a TV
>  show, meaning they're in the fair game category now,
>  too.  IMHO.)

That's not totally true and a dangerous assumption to make. Writers do not
want to lose control of their characters as in most cases, they do not make
as much money off of them as do a tv show. Writers, even those in the vampire
category, can and will crack down as it is their livlihood.  This is one
reason that McLisa is strict about us not doing crossovers with FK and Anne
Rice's vampires, or PN Elrod's vampires, etc.  Sometimes, if the writer isn't
careful, when the characters go to big screen or small screen, the writer
loses all control of the character even to the point he or she can't use the
character without permission from the production company in his or her own
books!

Writers do not like going after their fans, but they must to make a living
(after all, they are making a living from writing) and protect their
copyrights. So the best thing to do is to NOT take the risk, even if the
characters have made it to a filmed version (though some may not care at that
point - many will). This would go for non-cross over fanfic, or Forever
Knight cross over fan fic. Yes, this goes for characters I've professionally
created too.

As a professional writer, I would like to thank McLisa for the non-literary
cross over rule!!! (Though as a fan, there's some I'd very much like to
write<g> but know better)

Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:56:16 -0500
From:    mclisa <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Admin: Some fanfic sites in danger

I've just received this and decided to pass it on, just in case any sites
with FK fanfic are in danger.

>I dont know if this will affect anyone in the FK area, but appearantly Lycos
>and subsidiaries are shutting down all fanfiction and fan sites. This
>includes Lycos, Tripod, Anglefire, and Hot bot. please be warned and if you
>have a site, back it up. To all otehrs be prepared that these sites are all
>being erased.

A word to the wise, and all that.

McLisa (Lisa McDavid)
"That will be trouble".
Listowner, Forkni-l and Fkfic-l
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:12:32 -0500
From:    mclisa <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Fw: Admin:  FORKNI-L Rules

Unless the list hamsters are still recovering from a St. Paddy's Day
hangover :), herewith the rules for Forkni-l.

McLisa

If you need a hand or have any questions please don't hesitate to
contact Don Fasig <Argent@e.......> or Lisa McDavid
<mclisa@m.......>.

For tips on managing your Forever Knight  subscriptions please visit Don's
help page at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7139/fk-lists.htm

List digests are archived at:
http://members.theglobe.com/KnightWind3/forkni.htm

FORKNI-L  RULES

1. No flames on list. FLAMERS MAY BE SET NOPOST. THE NOPOST
MAY BE PERMANENT.

2. Please don't quote more than four lines of a previous post in replying.
If you have more than one point to answer, then you may quote the
relevant four lines for that point also.

3. Limit sigs to 6 lines.  This includes all information, decoration
quotations and blank lines.  Your name and address count as part of
the six. If you sign your name on a separate line above the body of text,
your name and the blank line or lines between count as part of the six
line limit. If you have one of those services that insists on putting an
advertising tag on the end of posts, don't worry. We realize you can't
control that and it doesn't count as part of your sig.

4. Please don't send to the whole list when you are only talking to the
person who  wrote  the post you are answering.

5. Advertising on list is on a case by case basis. Please consult the
listowners, Lisa McDavid,  <mclisa@m.......> or Don Fasig,
<Argent@e.......> for permission.

6. This list is for the discussion of Forever Knight. Cast, crew, staff and
producers in connection with what they're doing now or have done in the
past are ok. Vampires in general are _NOT_ ok except in relation to
Forever Knight.

7. Off-topic posts are not allowed, no matter what they are about or how
urgent the warning may appear. If you have an off-topic post which you
think should appear on the list, ask one of the owners for permission.

8. The private lives of the cast are not a discussion topic. Occasionally
one of the fan club presidents will make an announcement, but other
than that, we leave the cast their privacy.

9. Con announcements must come from con officials or a designated
liaison and must be kept brief.  Cons are only announced on list if there
is a connection to FK.

10. Only fan club presidents or other designated spokespeople may
make announcements of future projects for FK cast, crew and staff,
before said projects have been released or written about in the media.

11. No role-playing on Forkni-l. This includes no character names as
pseudonyms or posing as a character.

12. Each subscriber is limited to five posts per day on Forkni-l.


McLisa (Lisa McDavid)
"That will be trouble".
Listowner, Forkni-l and Fkfic-l
mclisa@m.......


------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:25:50 -0500
From:    mclisa <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Schanke's ethnicity

In For I Have Sinned, Schanke says he's half Polish and half Italian.
"Schanke" is a German name, but if you do much reading on World War II in
Poland, you discover Polish patriots with German names, some of whom got
into trouble with the Gestapo by refusing to be classified as
"Volksdeutsch," or ethnic Germans. Our Schanke must be from a familly like
that.

McLisa (Lisa McDavid)
"That will be trouble".
Listowner, Forkni-l and Fkfic-l
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Mar 2001 09:43:18 -0800
From:    Lady Ariake <lady_ariake@y.......>
Subject: Re: Lycos and fansites

--- Libratsie@a....... wrote:

> That's not totally true and a dangerous assumption to make. Writers do not
> want to lose control of their characters as in most cases, they do not make
> as much money off of them as do a tv show. Writers, even those in the vampire
> category, can and will crack down as it is their livlihood.  This is one
> reason that McLisa is strict about us not doing crossovers with FK and Anne
> Rice's vampires, or PN Elrod's vampires, etc.

As I said, it is MHO re: Interview and Dragonriders.
And I didn't really see the reason for limiting the
fan fic to television shows only--quite frankly, it's
all illegal in the strictest sense and any creator
would feel offended to see someone abusing their work.


I do write freelance fiction, (I don't make anywhere
near enough to live on) it's vampire stories, and I
would be very sensitive about someone else playing
with them, but I'm also a realist.  Fan ficiton is one
of the sincerest forms of flattery, and all cracking
down does is offend the consumers.  If I am every
successful enough that people do want to write fan fic
about my characters, I would be flattered and would
have to think long and hard before breaking out the
C&Ds.  (That obviously doesn't apply to profit motives
and plagerism.)  It's harder with print materials,
obviously, than with television and movies.  I give
MacCaffery points over Rice for monitoring official
fan "Weyrs."  Fans want an outlet, and if they don't
have one, they're going to create their own.  As long
as the original author is the acknowleged owner,
authority and ultimate arbiter of canon (and scarily,
most of Rice's fans really think she can do no wrong,
God help them) then fan fiction does not do too much
harm.  In fact, if not for fan fiction I wouldn't know
some authors (Laurell Hamilton in particular--I read a
crossover between her Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter
stories and Forever Knight and decided to pick up her
novels.)

Fan activity can be the best sales technique an author
has.  Those who slam down on it too hard are only
hurting themselves in the long run.

=====
"Vampirism--it does a body good!" Tom Servo, reviewing "The Wild World of Bat
Woman"

If Anita doesn't want to be Jean-Claude's human servant, can I volunteer?

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 17 Mar 2001 to 18 Mar 2001 (#2001-87)
**************************************************************


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