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FORKNI-L Digest - 2 Feb 2001 to 3 Feb 2001 - Special issue (#2001-39)

Sat, 3 Feb 2001

There are 29 messages totalling 1033 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Last Knight (2)
  2. Delurking...Who would you be?
  3. Delurking ... (2)
  4. "Baby, Baby"
  5. Canada versions vs US - something to look forward to (2)
  6. Videos, maybe? :-)  Good point
  7. LK ending (4)
  8. Schanke and the boy
  9. Fwd: LK ending
 10. Videos, maybe?
 11. Nick's failures
 12. Horrorscopes
 13. Julia [Was "Extremis"]
 14. Right Place, Right Time
 15. Nick's Failure's As A Sire
 16. That really long story I wrote: Casting the First Stone
 17. The Stake (3)
 18. [[FORKNI-L] The Stake]
 19. Soft-serve LC?
 20. To bring across or not... [was: various]
 21. Nick and Jeanne (was Re: Nick's Failure's As A Sire)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:04:37 EST
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: Last Knight

In a message dated 2/1/01 4:52:02 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
STONEB@g....... writes:

<< Nick promised in Last Act that he would not die by his own hand.  And so he
 does not.  Asking LC to do the deed for him is not so much tempting LC to sin
 as it is requesting him to do a good deed. >>

IIRC, Mr. Bennett has said that he thought that Nick finally
won, that in getting LaCroix to stake him, he had finally
bested his master.

Laurie of the Isles

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:11:20 EST
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: Delurking...Who would you be?

In a message dated 2/1/01 8:50:18 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
laceye@a....... writes:

<< If you had a chance to actually _be_ one of the characters, who would
 you prefer to be, and who would you most likely end up being? >>

I would be either Schanke or Sydney the cat.  Seriously, they
both had good lives, full of love, and were well taken care of by
the women in their lives.  So Schanke went kaboom, at least
he went quickly and never felt a thing.  My theory is Schank's
still alive anyway.

Laurie of the Isles

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:13:04 -0500
From:    Portia 1 <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: Delurking ...

mclisa@m....... wrote:
>>Ok, ok, I'm a hopeless romantic. :) I wrote the very
first fanfic in which Nick is cured and married to
Nat, at least the first that appeared on this life.<<

That's the kinda ending I wanted for the show.  I've made up such stories myself
-- Nick and Nat buying a house somewhere outside of the city, Nat keeping her
job as coroner (rotten commute!), Nick teaching music or art out of their
beautiful, sprawling, rustic home in the woods (lived too long a vampire to be
comfortable around a lot of people), Nick calling LaCroix in Paris on the birth
of their first son (this his first initiation, the two thereafter keeping in
contact by phone).  I can picture the children getting up in the middle of the
night for a drink of water and catching their father speaking to someone on the
phone in French, thus picking up archaic terms they must unlearn in school
("g"), etc.  <sigh> I wanted them to be happy, though it would have been at
LaCroix' expense, wouldn't it? But, still.... "g"

Portia, another hopeless romantic (though she hates to admit it!!)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:35:09 -0700
From:    Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Re: Delurking ...

> That's the kinda ending I wanted for the show.  I've made up such stories
myself -- Nick and Nat buying a house somewhere outside of the city, Nat
keeping her job as coroner (rotten commute!),

Fffthpph!

A much more romantic ending would be Nick becoming the first vampire space
explorer, being kidnapped by beautiful aliens that made it possible for him
to live as a vampire yet with all the mortal perks, becoming a musical
sensation via the Flwwiptuphonic Lizzlizer and spending his immortality
singing under a lavendar sky under the triple moons between gracing the
adoring populace with vampire hickeys--the possession of which quickly
become the planetary status symbol. <eg>

Which is a heck of a lot better than his ending up as a vampire shishkabob.

:)=
Kyer, kyer@p.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:54:32 -0600
From:    "B. Stone" <STONEB@g.......>
Subject: "Baby, Baby"

While browsing through a catalogue from Daedalus Books, I happened on a book
called _Suits Me:  The Double Life of Billy Tipton_ by Diane Wood Middlebrook.
According to the catalogue, the book tells the story of celebrated
jazz musician Billy Tipton "who grew up as Dorothy Tipton but lived
as a man from the time she was nineteen until she died at the age of
74".  From another source [one of
the _Straight Dope_ books--maybe not so scholarly, but hey, it was
handy!)] I learned that the deception began in 1935 and that the
original reason had to do with the difficulty women had then of being
taken seriously in the world of jazz.  Could this be the inspiration
behind "Baby, Baby"?  Serena does bear some resemblance to the
photograph of Tipton on the book jacket.  The FK ep was, if I'm not
mistaken, set in the 20's but perhaps somebody thought it would be
more fun to hark back to the ambiance of the 20's than to wallow in
the sorrows of the Great Depression.  What do you think?
        B. Stone
        stoneb@g.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:22:48 EST
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: Canada versions vs US - something to look forward to

In a message dated 2/1/01 3:06:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
wldthngwthfngs@h....... writes:

<< Now, why are the Canadian versions of FK different than the US versions?
 Time?  Content? >>
When the DVD's come out (and they *will*); we are going to have a *lot* of
fun checking out the differences.  Oh boy oh boy.
Casting T. F. Stone

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:26:27 EST
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: Videos, maybe? :-)  Good point

In a message dated 2/1/01 4:04:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Dolpfin220@a....... writes:

<< Bennett, was a costar of the series "Forever Knight". There has been a huge
 >campaign to get this series released on DVD and/or video, including a full
 >size ad in a recent Hollywood Reporter and an ongoing Internet site devoted
 >to bringing this about a >>

Yes, definitely a smooth move and maybe we should all do this when writing to
the DVD/video people.  Mentioning that we ahve already donated hugh amounts
of money on an ads - when we could have been spending money on their DVD's
says something important - namely that we have the bucks to buy.
Casting T. F. Stone  Caddywhacked with a DVD player in the back.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:44:27 -0500
From:    urtikit@m.......
Subject: Re: LK ending

Marel writes:
>(Death is just a bowl of cherries?)

Because life is a peach...?  ;-)


Off to sate a sudden craving for fruit.
Kit
urtikit@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:40:30 -0500
From:    Cindy Ingram <cgi271@a.......>
Subject: Re: Schanke and the boy

Angela Gottfred wrote:

>Awhile back, I decided to go for the cheesy explanation that it was the kid
>of another cop, whom Schanke knew well and perhaps was even taking to the
>picnic because his parents couldn't.

Or it could have been a nephew, which also could apply to Schanke's use of
"you and the kids" when talking to Myra. I used to spend a lot of time over
at my cousins' homes when growing up, and vice versa. It's not a stretch to
picture Schanke turning the annual police picnic into an extended family
outing.

I realize Schanke never mentioned either him or Myra having any siblings,
but that doesn't rule out the possibility. Maybe it just never came up in
any of the conversations we were allowed to hear. <g>

Also, re: George Kapelos ...

Sorry if someone has answered this already, but George Kapelos is John
Kapelos' brother. He played Arthur, a forensics technician, who was at the
crime scene near the beginning of the episode. He liked Nick but was none
too fond of Schanke. <g>

Cindy Ingram
<cgi271@a.......>

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people
very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:43:17 -0500
From:    Cindy Ingram <cgi271@a.......>
Subject: Re: LK ending

Marel wrote:

>Winston Churchill once gave a speech at an American institution
>which consisted largely of the phrase:'Never give up' repeated over
>and over. I always felt that this was LaCroix's mantra too.

Agreed. Which is why I can't accept (no matter how grief-stricken Lacroix
would have been after staking Nick) that he would ever walk into the sun,
so to speak. Imo, it would go against everything we've been shown about his
character.

That in no way reflects upon Nick's importance to him. He could be
completely devastated, yet never contemplate following Nick's example. It
just wasn't in his makeup. (Again, imo.)

Almost 2000 years before, LC chose "to live, Divia ... to live" (sorry if
I've misremembered the quote) and I don't think, when it gets right down to
it, that he'd ever willingly choose anything else. For better or worse, in
an odd way, LC is perhaps the most "alive" character on the show.

Although I guess it begs the question: Is LC's immortal existence founded
upon a love of life ... or a fear of death, which one assumes, to his way
of thinking, would mean an end to everything? (For that matter, exactly
what *does* he think, if anything, lies beyond?)

Cindy Ingram
<cgi271@a.......>

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people
very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:57:40 -0500
From:    Cindy Ingram <cgi271@a.......>
Subject: Re: LK ending

Marel wrote:

>All the same, what need had Nick to rush into death? If he believed that
>Natalie was in a version of heaven, she wasn't going anywhere. He
>could've stayed on earth for centuries longer working for his hoped-for
>salvation, which might've bettered his odds of spending an eventual
>afterlife with her --

That's a good point. But despite what he said, I suspect Nick's decision
may have had as much to do with his promise not to leave Natalie as it did
with his professed faith in an afterlife together.

He was already reeling from the shock of having taken too much. He had
promised her he would never leave her, no matter what. In *his* mind, he
had already betrayed her trust (and faith in him) by taking too much. To
move on, to continue living when she no longer did, would have been --
again, to *his* mind -- the ultimate betrayal.

I seriously doubt Nat would have wanted him to make the choice he did, but
in Nick's eyes, he was remaining true to her. As someone else pointed out,
he wasn't about to choose a life of vampirism for them both, so he took the
only other way he felt he had of keeping his promise -- to join her in
death, and trust that there was something beyond.

I may not like his choice, but I do understand how he arrived at it.

As for the rest of the LK discussion, I can't possibly add to or improve on
the varied and most excellent insights already offered by all involved, so
I won't even try ...

Cindy Ingram
<cgi271@a.......>

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people
very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:36:23 -0600
From:    Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: Fwd: LK ending

At 01:03 AM 2/2/01 -0500, Portia wrote:

>It definitely was chathartic, as opposed to how frustrated I would have
>been if they'd left the show hanging!!

Cathartic?  Hmmm.  I like cathartic, but in no way was LK cathartic for me.

Y'know, though, I don't know if there's any ending that wouldn't have left
me frustrated in some way, simply because I just don't want Nick's story to
end.  I just like the guy too much.

Bring 'em back alive!
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
Cousin of the Knight ~ N&NPacker
CotK Site -- http://lavender.fortunecity.com/evildead/879/

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:31:55 EST
From:    Dolpfin220@a.......
Subject: Re: Videos, maybe?

In a message dated 2/2/2001 8:19:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, sherryh@i.......
writes:


> Whether or not C/T has softened it's stance over the past year, I
> don't know.   Considering that C/T never released FK to video, I don't
>

Possibly not.  However DVD players were one of the biggest selling items over
the holidays.  Where only a short time ago stores had just a fraction of
space allotted to DVDs compared to video, most stores have switched those
figures.  Other studios are starting to release their shows to DVD, a few
examples being episodes of Friends, Survivor, the upcoming first season of
Buffy, the first two seasons of X-Files, the first episode of Farscape and
the upcoming second series of LEXX.  It's probable some of these have a
different audience, but if C/T aren't reminded that these things are wanted,
then they won't happen.  Even _if_ this company can't get the series produced
on DVD, at least in making their inquiries about its availability, the
requests for it are reinforced.

> On the subject of DVD releases and FK,  I recall hearing, sometime
> last year, that the original Nick Knight movie was being prepared for
> DVD release...does anyone know if this is still scheduled, delayed, or
> was it just a rumor to begin with?

   That was scheduled for release on DVD sometime later this year.  I thought
it was Anchor Bay that were producing it, but couldn't find it on their
future releases through 2002.  Either I've got the company wrong or they've
removed it from their future lineup for the foreseeable future.  I'll try to
search further for the announcement I saw about it.


Janet

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that,
you've got it made. -Groucho Marx


------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:58:47 -0800
From:    Klytaimnestra <lbowman@c.......>
Subject: LK ending

on 2/2/01 2:00 PM, Portia wrote:

> that, in effect, he was forgiven by the grace of their love.

I don't think that's something a medieval Catholic would think.  The church
in those days was not so hot on mortal love, which it saw (as far as my
shaky grasp of medieval thought goes, at least) as an obstacle, if anything,
to the pursuit of divine grace and salvation.  Hopeless knight's love for a
fair lady was okay, as long as it took the form of writing sonnets about
wishing to touch the hem of her gown, and went no farther!

I just thought of this.  If Nick followed Natalie into death it would have
been for loyalty (which a knight would appreciate whether or not the church
did), not for love (which both the knights and the church would have seen as
a weakness.)

Of course I'm assuming here that he hadn't changed his views in 8 centuries.

K
--
Klytaimnestra             lbowman@c.......
Fanfiction at http://members.home.net/lbowman

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:58:13 EST
From:    DanaKnight@a.......
Subject: Re: Nick's failures

In a message dated 1/22/01 5:02:06 PM, LISTSERV@l....... writes:

<< Richard ->- dedicated, idealistic lawyer, who'd always been sheltered
by his big sister. >>

I'm not sure that Richard was so shelted by Nat. I think she helped him when
he needed it, but how different is that from any set of siblings? Cars break
down. He was dedicated and idealistic. But don't think he was as niave as the
above seems to suggest.

Judy

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:29:35 -0500
From:    Cindy Ingram <cgi271@a.......>
Subject: Re: Horrorscopes

Catching up on old forkni-l digests tonight ...

Eric wrote:

>It's been bugging me: just when did LaCroix get so in touch with his
>sensitive side? <SNIP>

I'm not so sure it was any one or two particular events that brought it
about. I see it more as a gradual change that may have taken place without
his even realizing (or wanting) it.

Maybe by third season, Lacroix was as tired of the status quo as Nick was.
If so, it could have made him more receptive to thoughts of changing the
way he dealt with Nick.


><SNIP> which leaves the times LaCroix found himself confronted by an evil
>greater than his own, which would be when he was nearly killed by Jack
>The Ripper, and meeting Hitler, both events which left him
>uncharacteristically shook up.

True, although I'd have to say the changes were probably more recent than
that, judging by the LC that shows up in Dark Knight I and II. He certainly
didn't take a kinder, gentler approach with Nick when he first arrived in
Toronto. <g>

Maybe his apparently near-fatal staking by Nick, which seemed to drive him
into seclusion/hibernation for a year or so, gave him time to reflect on
things and served as the impetus for change. Subsequent events in Toronto
could have continued to move him down that path. During this time, we
certainly saw more flashes of ... dare I say it? ... vulnerability in
Lacroix than most of the flashbacks ever revealed.

Cindy Ingram
<cgi271@a.......>

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people
very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 04:27:11 -0800
From:    Extremis <e_blanco1@y.......>
Subject: Julia [Was "Extremis"]

Hi Julia,

Thank you for responding to my post. Hope you had a
good week. To dig in:

What's "weg"? I tried every possibility I could think
of, and couldn't get it. Mind you, I was online over a
year before I discovered what everyone in the chat
rooms meant when they told me "RTFM!!!". Talk about
embarrassment!

<<the face-to-face confrontation with mortality
can...>>

Agreed, especially with your point that's Nick's take
on vampirism was constantly changing too, but in
Nick's case, there was no mortality to face. I think
Nick just didn't know what he wanted, or he wanted his
blood and drink it too. I wonder if sometimes Nick got
a kick out of it when Nat backed off the search for a
cure, and considered it an option instead. It took the
pressure off him, and probably privately amused him no
end. Maybeeeee...Nick didn't want a cure? He just got
off on Nat's need to find one for him?

<<Nick was disinterested enough in Tracy to be...>>

That part I got: Nick wasn't in love with Tracy, so he
had no qualms about bringing her across. What I didn't
get was Nat's anger. She knew Nick didn't love Tracy,
so it wasn't jealousy, but she was furious that Nick
was about to put the bite on her-why? She knew Nick
felt responsible for Tracy's being shot, he was trying
to make amends. When it was her brother lying on the
hospital bed, this she was okay with. It couldn't have
been her argument that Tracy wasn't able to give her
consent, because her brother wasn't able to either. In
both cases someone else was doing the deciding for
them. Your thoughts?

Eric

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 04:44:42 -0800
From:    Extremis <e_blanco1@y.......>
Subject: Re: Right Place, Right Time

Hi  Klytaimnestra,

<<He would have to trust that there was something that
would not betray him.>>

And since I have Nat on the brain, I have to ask: is
it possible that all those times Nat wanted Nick to
bring either her or someone else across, that Nick
took these requests as small betrayals? He never once
threw it back in her face "Oh, so now being a vampire
is okay with you?", but while the expression on his
face may have been confusion on as to do as she asked
or not, could it actually have been the feeling of
being let down by someone who was supposed to be
helping him? The "just when you think you know
somebody" syndrome?

Eric

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:13:53 -0800
From:    Extremis <e_blanco1@y.......>
Subject: Re: Nick's Failure's As A Sire

Hi Cindy,

Thank you for responding. I can't remember the title
of the episode where Nick brought the lepper
across-wasn't that the one with the model that was
hooked on some sort of anti-aging drug? And what
reasons did he have for bringing her across? Wasn't it
to preserve her beauty? Didn't take much for Nick to
bring people across in those days did it? <g>

I loved the episode where Nick met Joan of Arc. I
think that even The Messenger, with it's graphic
depiction of Joan burning at the stake, didn't come
close to the way they showed her death in that
episode. The scream as the scene cut away from the
flashback was chilling. Is there any fanfic out there
that ran with the idea that Joan consented?

Eric

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 08:46:18 -0500
From:    Stephanie Kellerman <stephke@i.......>
Subject: Re: That really long story I wrote: Casting the First Stone

OK everybody.  Here is the link to Wanda's story.  I uploaded it in 4 parts and
I also have it all in one file for those who are a glutton for punishment.

ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/

--
Steph
stephke@i.......
ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/
http://www.richardbasehart.com
"The sea..where each man, as in a mirror, finds himself", Richard Basehart as
Ishmael

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 06:07:48 -0800
From:    Extremis <e_blanco1@y.......>
Subject: The Stake

Hi all,

Why did Nick and Vachon both keep stakes in their
dwellings? I know that Nick would sometimes raise the
shades just enough to let a ray of sunlight in,
occasionally sticking his hand out till he burned
himself, and had a habit of just making it indoors
before sunrise, so would you say that Nick had some
sort of suicidal or masochistic streak? Would his
willingness to eat food, use the sun bed, etc. at
Nat's urging, knowing the discomfort it would cause,
somehow play into that masochistic streak?

There was also the time he was receiving some sort of
high voltage treatments from that scientist with the
ill-fated fiance who was on opera singer, and after
squirming all over the table, didn't he say he dug it?
Okay, not in those words, exactly, but...

Finally, even though Nick was supposed to be working
on swearing off blood, he still always kept a few
bottles in the fridge. Why keep temptation so nearby?
Vachon never struck me that way, but he had a stake
ready to hand to over to Tracy after Divia's attack,
and Nick (I think) even went so far as to decorate his
stake with ribbons in LK, so why did they keep them
around? Your thoughts?

Eric

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 08:46:01 CST
From:    Emily <emily.m.hanson@u.......>
Subject: Re: [[FORKNI-L] The Stake]

Extremis <e_blanco1@y.......> wrote:
Hi all,

Why did Nick and Vachon both keep stakes in their
dwellings?

Probably the same reason some people keep handguns, for self-defense.

...so would you say that Nick had some
sort of suicidal or masochistic streak?

He's been on-and-off depressed in cannon, and we know he's contemplated
suicide in the show.  I don't think this means Nick has a masochistic streak,
just a tendency to overdo the angst.

Would his willingness to eat food, use the sun bed, etc....
somehow play into that masochistic streak?

I doubt it, this has to do with him seeking a cure and very much wanting to
change.

Finally, even though Nick was supposed to be working
on swearing off blood, he still always kept a few
bottles in the fridge. Why keep temptation so nearby?

Well, Nick is a vampire, and he could barely tolerate Nat's protein shakes.
Even though he wanted to eat normal food, he'd starve to death without the
blood.  It's not so much temptation as survival.  Nat's theory that vampires
are addicted to blood was only that, a theory that was unproven as far as
cannon went, IMHO.


E-mail: emily.m.hanson@u.......
Homepage: http://www.starbase-eprime.com
Fanfic: http://www.geocities.com/hansone.geo/myfanfic.html

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:40:52 -0500
From:    Portia <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Soft-serve LC?

Regarding Eric and Cindy's discussion about LaCroix' "softer side" in the
3rd season -- I've always wondered if it didn't reflect an unusual concern
for his son?  Maybe he sensed something especially disconcerting going on in
Nick and felt constrained (or at least that it would be wise) for him to
"put on the kid gloves?"  Maybe all of the pressure Nick was under or the
"medical" regime prescribed by Nat was having a negative affect on his
system (i.e. physically and mentally)?

Portia

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:01:21 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: The Stake

In a message dated 2/3/01 8:14:43 AM Central Standard Time,
e_blanco1@y....... writes:

>  so why did they keep them
>  around? Your thoughts?
As defense against other vampires, perhaps. Vachon, after all, had been
running from the Inka for a while though that was resolved immediately after
we "met" him but perhaps he had other enemies. Nick definitely would probably
have some vampires who'd love to put an end to his constant interaction with
mortals.

Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:37:04 -0500
From:    mclisa <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Re: Canada versions vs US - something to look forward to

> << Now, why are the Canadian versions of FK different than the US versions?
>  Time?  Content? >>
> When the DVD's come out (and they *will*); we are going to have a *lot* of
> fun checking out the differences.  Oh boy oh boy.

First, several of us have copies of the Canadian versions, so if you ask
onlist, you may be able to arrange something offlist. I have copies, but no
means of reproducing them, so I can't help.

As to the differences, the answer is time.  FK was first produced jointly
for Canadian tv  and for CBS's Crimetime after Primetime lineup, which was
what they had before David Letterman's show.  CBS was interested only in
filling in between the maximum amount of time they could legally devote to
commercials.  About half their affiliates didn't carry the lineup anyway.
This is one reason the show never was well-known in the U.S.  Some of the
Canadian versions only have filler, such as Nick driving around Toronto, but
others include points that the American audience needed to know, such as
that Nick couldn't hypnotize Nat.

The second and third season episodes were the same in both countries.

McLisa (Lisa McDavid)
"That will be trouble".
Listowner, Forkni-l and Fkfic-l
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:53:09 -0500
From:    urtikit@m.......
Subject: To bring across or not... [was: various]

Eric wondered:
>That part I got: Nick wasn't in love with Tracy, so he
>had no qualms about bringing her across. What I didn't
>get was Nat's anger.

Well, here's how I see it.
Say I have a lot of money, and you're broke.  You ask me
for some cash.  I say no, because money is the root of
all evil <g>, and giving it to you will ruin your life.  Then
you see me offering cash to someone else.  Even though
you understand my reasoning in refusing it to you, you
might be hurt by this.  Okay, as analogies go, it's weak <g>,
but a few concepts are on point.
Remember, Nick is the one who wants out of vampirism,
seeing it as a damned state.  Nat is the one who tries to
assure him it is not, but a physical condition instead.
She doesn't necessarily see it as evil (OtL).  So we do see
her turning to it as an answer (AMPH, IWR), one that isn't
to be pursued lightly due to its rather nasty side effects,
but an option in drastic circumstances when death appears
to be the only alternative.  She sees this later as irrational
when the decision is viewed in the clear light of
day (actually, incendiary in the clear light of day is more
apt <g>, but you get my point).
Also, up until then (3rd season-ish), Natalie had been a bit
of an optimist.  She was working on a cure, even got Nick
his one day in the sun.  She thought, or was hoping, that
they could do it, with enough effort and a few breaks.
In Richard's case, she even used this reasoning when
pleading with Nick.  Even though she now realizes that
it isn't a good idea (especially given what happened to
Richie) and that perhaps Nick is refusing because
he loves her, it still hurts her because it probably feels like
a rejection of her and a rejection of her hopes.
In this sense, I think the anger we're seeing is partly
a result of the death of that optimism -- it's been dying, but
here's one last spasm before it fades completely.
And this death of hope could explain some of what
happens later in LK.

>And since I have Nat on the brain, I have to ask: is
>it possible that all those times Nat wanted Nick to
>bring either her or someone else across, that Nick
>took these requests as small betrayals?

I rather think he did, at least in some instances.
In AMPH, he seems devastated that she doesn't
believe him.

>I can't remember the title
>of the episode where Nick brought the lepper
>across-wasn't that the one with the model that was
>hooked on some sort of anti-aging drug?

<Cranking up the rusty memory files>
The leper, Elizabeth, was in I Will Repay; the anti-aging
one was If Looks Could Kill, if I recall correctly.  But when
Nick brought Elizabeth across, I think she was dying, after
having been assaulted by those two goons on the beach.
The baronness in ILCK wanted to preserve her beauty,
but Nick wouldn't bring her across.  Either Janette or LC
did that -- you could pick either, depending on your
favorite brand of cheese. <g>

Whew.  Didn't mean to get so chatty....
Kit
urtikit@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:12:27 -0800
From:    "David J. Duncan" <dante0220@y.......>
Subject: Nick and Jeanne (was Re: Nick's Failure's As A Sire)

Hi Everyone:

Hmmm...interesting. By the way, did anyone else
notice the similarities between the Conscience
and Nick?  (other than the fact that Ger actually
played the role as it should have been played???)

As for the conversion in fanfic, well...that
would depend upon your perceptions of Jeanne.  I
think that issue was settled in the third episode
of the first season.  She refused and would never
have come across willingly.  And if you do bring
her across, what does that do to Nick?  (Other
than Fleur), she was the first person (that we
saw) to make him question his darkness.  If she
were to submit, then all bets are off after that
and I think that the series would be very
different.

And, by the way, her presence in my fanfic will
continue.  However, it will be from the
traditional angle...and, as in all of my stories,
there will be fireworks involved.  (Oh, the muse
is tapping me on the shoulder....A story idea is
coming to me.  <scribble, scribble, scribble>
Those folks on the fanfic list will see it in a
few months...)

That's all for now.  Thanks for putting this
interesting question on the list (and for the
inspiration for another chapter in the "Dubois
Chronicles").  Also, my apologies to my fellow
fans of Dustin Hoffman out there.  I usually love
his acting, but in the "Messenger", he was a huge
disappointment.

Thanks for listening!  <Hops off of the soapbox>

Sincerely,

David

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 14:19:59 EST
From:    Meliss9900@a.......
Subject: Re: The Stake

In a message dated 2/3/01 8:15:04 AM Central Standard Time,
e_blanco1@y....... writes:

<<  Why keep temptation so nearby?
 Vachon never struck me that way, but he had a stake
 ready to hand to over to Tracy after Divia's attack, >>

Maybe they kept them handy in case unwanted guests ever dropped in for a
visit.  After all for centuries Vachon had the Inca following him, he might
have had other less then welcome aquaintenances as well

Melissa

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:31:02 -0800
From:    Extremis <e_blanco1@y.......>
Subject: Re: Last Knight

Hi WRDRR,

<<He decided he couldn't let other people keep paying
for his mistake. Not a case of suicide, but of
self-sacrifice.>>

I can see that, but question: could it have been less
a decision made for the benefit of the lives Nick
might eventually take without Nat's being there as a
portable conscience, or was it also a decision made in
pure grief and shock? Nick just killed the love of his
unlife-or one of them, anyway-that's guilt nirvana
right there. He was stunned, not thinking clearly, and
made his decision "in the moment". If LaCroix hadn't
been there, Nick wouldn't have been able to ask him to
do the deed. That would've given him time, maybe
enough to compose himself sufficiently to see to Nat's
burial and relocate. He would've still been agonizing
of course, but I can't help feeling that LaCroix's
prescence made Nick's decision to die much easier, and
if he'd been alone, he might've considered other
options. Nick also loved his wife very much, the
scenario with Nat was deja vu all over again, but he
did manage to get past that. To the list: what do you
think would've happened if Jeanette had been with Nick
at the end instead of LaCroix? Is there any fanfic out
there that worked that angle? For that matter, if
Vachon or Urs had been there, do you think the end
result would've been the same? How would their
consolation/advice to Nick have been different than
LaCroix's?

Eric

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 2 Feb 2001 to 3 Feb 2001 - Special issue (#2001-39)
****************************************************************************


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