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FORKNI-L Digest - 16 Oct 2000 to 17 Oct 2000 (#2000-322)

Tue, 17 Oct 2000

There are 6 messages totalling 322 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Vachon Snack Cakes
  2. The Unkillable BMV Debate  ;-)
  4. [[FORKNI-L] two FK related questions]
  5. Vachon's Name, was Vachon Snack Cakes
  6. What has Nicholas gotten himself into????


Date:    Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:33:10 -0700
From:    Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Re: Vachon Snack Cakes

> Then, again, maybe his real name IS Valdez, and Vachon is the made-up name.
> Bonnie

Lol!  Valdez as in the Valdez Oil Slick disaster of Alaskan fame?
"Vachon!  Look what you've done!  I *told* you not to use so much hair oil!"



Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:19:28 -0000
From:    Barbara Vainio <bevainio@w.......>
Subject: Re: The Unkillable BMV Debate  ;-)

 I've found the drugged champagne theory to be unsatisfactory for some of the
 same Ms. Kessler discusses so brilliantly in her post.  I also think that we
 need to consider Nat's comment about "you are such fascinating creatures".
 She doesn't say "*Nick* is such a fascinating creature, although I believe
 she loves him very deeply.  So I think it's possible that Nat is *willing*
 to be seduced by LaCroix' line without any chemical help.  As Valerie says,
 Nat is in an environment she ahs no experience with and would be unable to
 handle in some circumstances.

 She's shown as a person who's alone (and possibly lonely); we never see her
 with other friends, and now not only has Nick expressed his feelings for
 her, another "fascinating creature" is paying her court.  I think she might
 be more susceptible to LaCroix' "line", especially if he were reinforcing it
 with a high level of hypnotic suggestion, than she would have been if she'd
 just met him in a bar somewhere.

 BTW, why *did LC set up the elaborate seduction?  Why not just drag her into
 an alley, take a sip, find out how Nick and Nat felt about each other & then
 drain her and leave her at the door of the loft?  does he just like to play
 with his "food"?  Or did he want to torture Nick with the fact that Nat,
 like Sylvain, was not "pure" and was easily seduced, even if it meant her
 death?  Or (pay attention Vals <G>) did he get seduced in turn by Nat and
 lose just a little control of a situation he thought he had well in hand?



Date:    Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:34:51 +0600
From:    Don Fasig <phase3@g.......>

It's a quiet night on the list, but here are the rules anyway...

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Date:    Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:27:33 -0500
From:    "Christella M. Stillman" <cstillma@u.......>
Subject: Re: [[FORKNI-L] two FK related questions]

At 09:30 PM 10/13/2000 -0400, Portia 1 wrote:
>No, you were right -- there were 2 books about Alice by Carrol: "Alice's
>Adventures in Wonderland" which dealt with a pack of cards, and "Through
>the Looking Glass" which delt with Alice's interactions with various

All right!  I'm really not losing it!  (Well, at least not as quickly as I
thought.  <G>)  Thanks.  <G>

This is definitely inspiring me to go back and watch C&C again very carefully.



Date:    Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:50:19 EDT
From:    Doņa Angel <donaangel@h.......>
Subject: Vachon's Name, was Vachon Snack Cakes

from:  Bonnie <callalily@l.......>
><snip>Also, while looking on the web for this info, I came across this
> >site--which wasn't around back in 1995-6 when the show was on:<snip>
>info about the Vachon family genealogy in North America.<snip>Then,
> >again,maybe his real name IS Valdez,and Vachon is the made-up name.

Well, I gotta add my .02 here...
based on what we know from the FOREVER KNIGHT television series, I have no
reason to think that Javier's last name is anything other than 'Vachon'--
and that he is Spanish.
[The following BB quotes are taken from the transcripts section at Mel's FK
FanFic Site <www.fkfanfic.com/fkscripts/fktrans.htm> The transcripts of BB 1
& 2, transcribed by Marg Baskin & proofreading and Spanish transcriptions by
Nancy Warlocke {aka the TRUE Leader of the Incarnates} and my thanks to Mel,
Marg, and Nancy for making them available to us... it was not until I read
parts of these transcripts that I FINALLY understood a few lines that LC and
Screed said in these eps that I had trouble hearing clearly! :) ]

#1) when The Inca first encounters Tracy in Vachon's church, he asks her (in
Spanish): "Donde esta Vachon?" <Where is Vachon?>

#2) when The Inca recounts to Nick about when he and Javier were brought
across, The Inca definitely states: "I met my death in 1531 at the hands of
a Spaniard named Javier Vachon."

#3) when Nick goes to the Raven and asks LaCroix for info about JAVIER
VACHON, LC apparently knows Javs by that name, as well as him as Javier
Vachon in relation to Urs and HIS Crew.
Nick: "Javier Vachon."
LaCroix: "Who's the last man to play back-up for Charo. Famous Javiers for
400, please. [laughs at Nick's disgusted expression.] You're losing your
sense of humor as well. I believe I know the man. Young Spaniard.
...[LC pointing out Urs to Nick} LC: "She knows him quite well."
Nick: "Who is she?"
LC: "An innocent goddess named Urs. For the last couple of centuries she's
been running with his crew."

Also, if you go to "The Vachon FAQ" by Amy R. (last modified October
4, 1999) at <users.lanminds.com/~akr/fk/faq/vachon.html>, you'll read the

"#2 What is Vachon's full name?
There is no reason to suspect it is not "Javier Vachon." Unlike Nick, Vachon
does not seem to have many aliases or nicknames. Vachon's given name is not
known for certain, though the Inca's statement that he was killed by the
Spaniard "Javier Vachon" indicates that is what the character was called as
a mortal. He bought his plane ticket in "Black Buddha" under the name "J.D.
Valdez," but that is the only time that name has been employed on screen. In
1890 (HoD), he introduces himself to Urs as "Javier Vachon," the same name
he gives Tracy in 1995 (BB). His signature on the Mississauga treaty in 1787
is "J Vachon" (BW). Tracy usually calls him "Vachon," but twice, in
extraordinary circumstances (TG, AtA), uses "Javier; "Urs usually calls him
"Javier," but has also, casually, used "Vachon;" Screed once called him
"V-man," and once "Vachonetti." "

I know Bonnie said that the particular web site "which wasn't around back in
1995-6 when the show was on" but, from what we know from the FK television
series, especially what The Inca says when he tells Nick the name of the man
who killed him "a Spaniard named Javier Vachon"-- who would know better than
his vampire brother what Javier's REAL name is?! I'm satisfied that my
Favorite Spanish vampire's REAL name is Javier Vachon! :)=

Bonnie also wrote:
>The name seems to have firmly originated and not strayed (except for >some
>fleeing Huguenots and some North American immigrants in the >1600s.

BTW, there are probably some folks here who would know better, but could not
those living in the northern part of Spain have some influence of the French
language and even intermarriage with the French people... I recently read
that some of the people of northern Spain may have blond hair and blue
eyes... maybe some of Javier's ancestors originally lived in the northern
part of Spain and moved further south?

Bonnie wrote:
>No mention of the name in Spain, though it's possible a Vachon from
> >southeast France could have immigrated into Spain at some point prior to
>the 1500s.

I can give ya'll a real life example of how this could happen... my maiden
name is Vogl... it is an unusual spelling of a German name which is usually
spelled "Vogel" or sometimes "Vogal"; the German word 'Vogel' means  bird. I
have even been told a well-meaning friend that maybe the name was misspelled
by the Immigration folks when my grandfather came to this country [which DID
happen in some cases], but I have been assured by family members that, in
our case, the 'Vogl' spelling is correct. My grandfather and his sister came
to the US before WW I; they came from Austria Hungary. Anyway, their
forefather's came from Austria (or maybe Germany), but I also understand
that my grandfather's mother was Hungarian. After 2 world wars and before
the fall of Communism in Europe, the town that my family was from which had
been in Austria Hungary, became part of either Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia.
...Which is an example of how a family with a German last name, of Hungarian
and Austrian (or posibbly German) heritage, could have emmigrated from
Austria Hungary to the US in the early 1900's, and maybe there are folks in
the former Yugoslavia or former Czecholovakia who have a German last name
spelled like mine was.
...so it's quite plausible to me, that 'Vachon' could REALLY be a last name
of some folks in Spain at the time Javier lived in Spain... and that being
in the 1500's!

And, finally, this little bit of info... at "THE Vaquero FAQ" by Torrey
Harris, a.k.a. Doņa Torrey at
these 2 questions and answers may be of interest--
"Q: What does Vaquero mean?
A: Vaquero is a Spanish word for cowboy."

"Q: WHY are followers of Vachon called cowboys?
A: Ok, here we go.... Back in the beginning of the third season of Forever
Knight when Javier Vachon first made his first appearance into the FK
universe there was a lot of talk about him on the list. A member of the list
(I believe it was Lisa McDavid) posted that Vachon should be called "cowsie"
because the French translation of his last name is close to the French word
for cow (vache). Well, one thing lead to another and, when it came time to
pick a name for his faction, someone (sorry I can't remember who) posted
that it should be cowboys. Sherri Campbell, our esteemed teniente
(lieutenant commander) posted the Spanish translation (Vaquero) and it

Angel a.k.a. Doņa Angel
Vaquera/Willing Slave of THE Glorious Spaniard/Future Proud Vaq
Brat/VaqDreamer/INCArnate/with Immortal Beloveds,Ravenette,Urchin &
DarkHearts Tendencies
Check out BBFC Web site: http://www.benbassfanclub.com


Date:    Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:47:21 EDT
From:    MadiHolmes@a.......
Subject: What has Nicholas gotten himself into????

Okay, I was watching E!'s "Coming Attractions" show yesterday, when they
showed the trailer for Alexander Lipnicki's new movie (the kid from Jerry

Anyway, it's called something like "The Little Vampire" or something like

But what does this have to do with FK???

One phrase-

The Barn of Red-Eyed Bovines

I'm serious. Someone out there has a SERIOUSLY twisted mind.

It just makes you wonder what has Nicholas been doing?????

How could he do this???

I just thought that he bought it from the local butcher shop; not straight
from the tap.

Believe me, this is some messed up stuff



End of FORKNI-L Digest - 16 Oct 2000 to 17 Oct 2000 (#2000-322)

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