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FORKNI-L Digest - 26 Jul 2000 (#2000-224)

Wed, 26 Jul 2000

There are 8 messages totalling 368 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Nat and Nick (2)
  2. Why Do We Need a Replacement Vampire Series? (2)
  3. Natalie and Tracy (2)
  4. Dear Me and YKY
  5. FK FANS HUG (was Dear Me and YKY)


Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:49:32 -0400
From:    Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick

Dolpfin220@a....... wrote:
> I've never had the sense that Nick became a vampire because he feared
> death. <snip> The way I understood it, he was seduced by Janette as seen in
> the flashbacks in Dance By the Light of the Moon....

I think this is part of what makes Janette's decision to leave him --
after promising him "an endless parade of nights" -- so devastating and

Jeannie Ecklund wrote about The Fix:

> How many people where very disappointed in both Nick and Nat reaction.
> He just wanted to go out and see the World, not make love to her
> and she told him to go home and get some rest. I wouldn't have left
> his side.

I think it's pretty clear that the drug had already put Nick in a state
of euphoria. He would probably have laughed at the idea that he didn't
have "all the time in the world" to enjoy the cure, just as he ignored
Nat's suggestion to go straight home.

I do agree that Nat should have kept a closer watch on him -- but then
the writers wouldn't have been able to give us those priceless scenes
with Schank, or the unforgettable image of Nick inhaling his pasta. <gr>
(Anyone happen to know how much food Ger actually had to eat doing those
mcombs@e....... N&Npacker


Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:51:56 -0400
From:    Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......>
Subject: Re: Why Do We Need a Replacement Vampire Series?

Libratsie@a....... wrote:
> I do want to stress this is MY opinion.  Why not say, "I'm interested in
seeing ULTRAVIOLET - wouldn't it be GREAT back to back with FOREVER KNIGHT!!!"

In a similar vein, wouldn't it have been great to see Nick as a
character in the current Sci-Fi world animated ad?

And since that is my 5th post today, it's back to lurking for me!
mcombs@e....... N&Npacker


Date:    Mon, 27 Aug 1956 16:29:48 +0000
From:    Jeannie Ecklund <jecklund@l.......>
Subject: Re: Why Do We Need a Replacement Vampire Series?

Mary Combs wrote:
> In a similar vein, wouldn't it have been great to see Nick as a
> character in the current Sci-Fi world animated ad?

It would have been wonderful,  I have been a Spock fan since the
beginning of time and it gives me a kick to see him dancing.:)



Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:53:59 -0500
From:    Cindy Ingram <cgi271@a.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick

Oh, boy! A debate! <G>

I'm on digest and was writing this as I read the messages, so forgive me if
I repeat some points already made.

Jeannie wrote:

>I wonder what Nat was thinking, she got the hots for Nick the night
>she met him and yet she wanted to change what he was.  That above
>scene really hurt him.

The sad truth is that we all hurt people we love and care about, whether
intentionally or unintentionally. Nat's no different from any of us in that
respect. Nat has hurt Nick, Nick has hurt Nat, Janette and Lacroix have
hurt Nick and vice versa. It's a good thing most of us are capable of
forgiving each other or we'd be in big trouble. And Nick, as we've seen
time and again, has a very forgiving nature.

I have to say that Nat's usually pretty good at judging when he needs
encouragement/a kick in the pants and when he needs to talk about things.
But in this instance, I think she missed the boat entirely. She *did* hurt
him, though it wasn't intentional at all, and if someone had pointed it out
to her, I think she would have been mortified. She didn't realize what was
going on with him. She was totally oblivious, in fact, (something that
surprised me since, as mentioned above, she usually has pretty good insight
where Nick's concerned). But she definitely didn't give him the opening he
needed to open up to her about it. Although heaven knows Nick is normally
reluctant to discuss anything of this nature with her, so who knows how
much he would have actually admitted if the conversation *had* continued.

In this case, Nick went to the person who could give him the understanding
he needed at that moment -- Janette. Just as when Janette questions or
ridicules his wish to become mortal again, he turns to Nat, who *does*
understand and sympathize. All in all, Nick has a fairly decent support
system, I'd say. (Including an unwitting Schanke.) Lucky for him, eh, since
there aren't too many therapists out there who specialize in counseling
vampires who long to be human again. <G>

McLisa wrote:

> Am I the only one who thinks she was  attracted to the man who was
>fighting the beast? Not everyone considers vampirism a desirable state, you
>know, me included.

I'm definitely with you there, McLisa, on both counts. I think she was
fascinated by the vampire (and perhaps a bit attracted as well) but that
she fell in love with the *man* not the beast.

Portia 1 wrote:

>I am also one of those who wouldn't want to be a vampire.  The vampire
>lifestyle seems to be one of paramount selfishness and self-indulgence, of
>uncontrolled appetites and barely restrained violence.  Yes, this can be
>"attractive," but ultimately, it seems a stunted "life."

Very well said! It was Nick's struggle that first attracted me to the show,
and that never changed for me. I do find the vampire aspect of the show
fascinating, rather like a place I enjoy visiting but would never want to
live. And though I love all the characters, complete with their various
virtues and flaws, it was Nick's quest -- his struggle to win out against
all odds -- that I found to be the most admirable and compelling of all.

Others feel differently, and I can certainly understand that, too. It's a
fascinating, multi-layered show that has something for everyone. That's
just one of the aspects that makes it great.

Greer <wyldechilde_2000@y.......> wrote:

>She stops telling Nick that he has to avoid vampiric activity entirely if
>he wants to be healed and in fact starts encouraging him to be vampiric.
>She also asks him to change her, or others, into vampires on more that
>one occasion.

She does this in times of extreme emotional stress (wow, imagine someone
not being perfect all the time <g>), but I don't recall her encouraging him
to be vampiric on a normal day-to-day basis. Am I forgetting something?

>She is a far *weaker* character at this point IMO
>since she has pretty much abandoned all her earlier

Again, I think all this proves is that she's an imperfect human rather than
the noble paragon of virtue some of us would like her to be. I don't see it
as abandoning her principles so much as losing sight of them for a brief
time under emotional duress. Do I wish she'd been stronger at those times?
Absolutely. But  I also think the fact that she wasn't makes her a more
interesting and *believable* character.

>Also, again in IMO only, she starts to become rather
>ostrich like in her wilful decision to ignore some
>aspects of vampirism.

Yup. Can't argue with you there. I think at that point, Nick's struggle and
all the obstacles they'd encountered were taking a toll on both of them.
They were both getting a little frayed around the edges and not reacting
the way they normally might or should.

Libratsie@a....... wrote:

>than his vampirism.  Like many people, male or female, he often acts first
>and thinks about the consequences later (which is what got him into the
>vampire mess in the first place). Nat sometimes does this, though overall
>I think she's a more analytical person who tries to think things through
>from many angles.

That's what I call hitting the nail on the head, Libs! <g>

Cindy Ingram

"I will not be the toy of irresponsible events!" -- Christopher Fry, "The
Lady's Not For Burning"


Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:55:48 -0500
From:    Cindy Ingram <cgi271@a.......>
Subject: Re: Natalie and Tracy

Greer <wyldechilde_2000@y.......> wrote:

>This post is mainly to see if I can stir up a little
>debate *grins* but it is something I noted on the show
>a little.

Oh, you little troublemaker, you. <weg>

>Do you think Natalie disliked/was jealous of Tracy
>once Tracy was partnered with Nicholas?

In my opinion ... no. The only friction I ever noted between them came when
Tracy was questioning Nat's professional opinion on a case. Sure, it was
Tracy's right to ask if Nat was sure about her findings, just as it was
Nat's right to get a little irritated that a rookie detective would dare
question her experience and professionalism. <g>

It was a minor ripple that was instantly forgotten by both. In Trophy Girl,
it was Natalie who stood up for Tracy when Nick and Reese were wondering if
she could handle things. I think she tried to lend her a sympathetic ear in
another ep, as well, though I'm blanking on which one it was. And they
seemed to get along fine when Tracy was assigned to assist with one of
Nat's autopsies. (Again, I'm forgetting the ep title. Sorry, my brain is
mush today.)

>I think she was....though this could have been caused
>by the fact I just rewatched my video of  Last Night
>which I don't think shows Natalie in good light AT

I think that incident had more to do with the confused emotions going on
between Nick and Natalie and very little to do with Nat's actual feelings
about Tracy herself. And I agree that it was not one of Nat's better hours.
(Although who among us has not done or said something we later wished we

I suspect, in a calmer more rational moment, Natalie would have been
ashamed of her resentment and hurt feelings and felt genuine remorse for
her ill-timed words. I, for one, would hope to be judged by my overall
standard of conduct and forgiven for my lesser moments, no doubt a
sentiment most of the FK characters would echo.

Except for Lacroix, of course. <weg>

Cindy Ingram

"I will not be the toy of irresponsible events!" -- Christopher Fry, "The
Lady's Not For Burning"


Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:53:47 -0400
From:    Bonnie Rutledge <br1035@i.......>
Subject: Re: Natalie and Tracy

<snip> Do you think Natalie disliked/was jealous of Tracy
> once Tracy was partnered with Nicholas?<snip>

No. I think if anything, Natalie took on a mentorship role with Tracy.

People have given certain events as testimony that Nat didn't like Tracy,
such as the scene in 'Outside the Lines' where Tracy questions some
autopsy finding of Nat's, 'Are you sure?' and Nat rolls her eyes.

I contend that Nat is still the one who consoled Tracy when she was
crying the day after meeting Vachon in 'Black Buddha,' she tried to
offer support to Tracy after she killed her first perp in 'Trophy Girl,'
and she was patient with Tracy's questions and weaknesses in 'My
Boyfriend Is A Vampire' and 'Jane Doe.' Tracy had enough trust in Natalie to
ask for her opinion when she was wondering about Nick and Janette in
'Human Factor.'

I think they had a relationship of mutual respect, and I think there are
more signs of friendship between them than between Tracy and Nick.

Could exposure to Tracy in third season be one factor in Nat's changing
attitude toward Nick? She knows how Tracy feels about Vachon, even if
this isn't a subject they ever discuss. I think this exposure would
make Natalie think more about the progress, if any, her relationship
has made with Nick over the years - the amount of time she's put into
it, and any rewards for the effort that she's seen. It's like her own living
flashback unfolding before her eyes.


Bonnie Rutledge.......<br1035@i.......>.......Single and Fabulous!
"Somewhere out there is another little freak who will love us, understand
us, and kiss our three heads and make it all better." - 'Sex and the City'
     "This is going to be embarrassing, isn't it?" - Cousin Jules


Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:46:10 CDT
From:    Jen Harding <jensharding@h.......>
Subject: Dear Me and YKY

my mom had a really horrible time last night... we had to call 911 and she
was transfered from our local hospital to a larger one with a neurosurgeon.
turns out she was bleeding in the brain... she has one aneurism on the left
and one on the right side.  the operation will be tomorrow morning.

please, if you believe in prayer, pray for her, and if you don't, please
think happy thoughts for us.....

oh, and in the midst of all this chaos (seeing one's mother with tubes
everywhere is something of a blow to the psyche), i couldn't help but
laugh... one of the nurses' names was Lambert.  i just *barely* resisted
asking him if he had a sister, Natalie. ;)

Jen Harding, jensharding@h.......
CotK, KoC, Faithful, Val, CP, LC, RoGe, Urchin
"I love you all. And I want all of you ... to love me" -- the Nightcrawler


Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:57:02 EDT
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: FK FANS HUG (was Dear Me and YKY)

In a message dated Wed, 26 Jul 2000  4:48:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jen
Harding <jensharding@h.......> writes:

<<please, if you believe in prayer, pray for her, and if you don't, please
think happy thoughts for us.....>>

I'm going to pass this along to a special list that some of the newbies may not
know about. It is a list with egroups called "FKFANSHUG." Basically, it is a
prayer list - not just for Christians, Jews, and Pagans, but EVERYONE who is an
FK fans. If you don't believe in prayer, you can join up and simply offer good
vibes, support, or whatever your personal belief systems calls for in these
circumstances. It also isn't just for tragedies and illness, but prayers for
thanks as well.

Anyone may request a prayer by e-mailing me directly, or any FKFANHUGS member
you know of. Don't be embarrassed to ask for prayers yourself. Sometimes we need
to think of ourselves in order to help others.

If you wish to join, the list can be found at www.egroups.com or e-mail me for a
direct link. I do STRONGLY ask that you be very tolerant of ALL religious
beliefs. It has been very interesting for me to hear how others prayer and/or
meditate through the FKFANSHUG members.

This list came about because some of us, Christians and Pagans, noticed that
miracles happened when we prayed and/or meditated TOGETHER.



End of FORKNI-L Digest - 26 Jul 2000 (#2000-224)

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