There are 26 messages totalling 782 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Episode guide 2. African vampires exposed! 3. Angel stuff 4. Angel vs. FK 5. Angel/FK (2) 6. Time for Another Top 10 List 7. Hayden Christensen (6) 8. 'ello, 'ello! :)= (2) 9. Different stakings 10. Angel and FK (7) 11. Ah yes, the "face" thingie... 12. Admin: Please watch the civility level 13. Elrod and FK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 01:04:36 +0200 From: Debi McK <vachesang@s.......> Subject: Episode guide I just discovered a site which has episode lists for *lots* of TV shows - including FK! Try http://epguides.com/menu/ Click on 'Forever Knight' and you get the complete episode list, and at the bottom of the page there's a few related links - including one to a 'mini guide' which includes the following: --------- Dark Knight Despite the death of LaCroix, the murders continue with Nick's friend becoming a victim. First aired Friday, Jan 8 1999 --------- Wow! Did they go and make a new pilot and not tell anyone??? <g> Debi McK vachesang@s....... FKP, NNPacker, and very, very UFfish... strange but true! "They say if you love someone, let them go. If they're really yours, they will learn their lessons and return. You will come back, Nicholas. I can wait. I have all the time in the world..." -- LaCroix ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 01:13:24 +0200 From: Debi McK <vachesang@s.......> Subject: Re: African vampires exposed! On Saturday, June 07, 1980 11:30 PM "Angela Gottfred" wrote: > they don't eat ticks, they peel open the scabs created by the ticks and > eat/drink the cows' blood. One young donkey had a very large hole in his > leg-- excavated with tender loving care by the Oxpeckers. OK, now I have the *really* warped image of Nick sitting perched on a cow's back, picking scabs... *definitely* time for coffee......... <g> Debi McK <looking furtively around for Knighties, then crawling swiftly back into the Lurkers Corner and hiding under the Rotten Tomato Deflector (TM) > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:56:56 -0500 From: Monica Thadine Rodriguez <mrodri14@u.......> Subject: Re: Angel stuff I have to first admit to watching Angel also. At first I was bothered by all the similarities, but now it's a way to get sort of a vamp fix - even though it leaves much wanting, since they don't really deal with the vamp issues much - bloodlust, etc. And Angel doesn't really put out that old world feel, I agree. But the show is aiming at a different sort of audience than FK was. Quite a bit less cerebral. Although I love all the sarcastic comments. >Nancy Kaminski >who watches Angel/Buffy for the clever dialog, and to watch Spike whine and >diss everyone in sight Yes! A good part of why I watch is to see Spike rant on against everyone, while still trying to ask for favors. It's quite hilarious. Molly said: >Methinks LaCroix would have Angel for breakfast! <eg> Without a doubt! Having him on the show would be very effective if they were looking for a slaughter fest like AtA/LK was. >After meeting Angel, Janette would be tempted to wonder >if Nick 'fathered' or at least tutored the boy in Angst and guilt. I often wonder myself. monica luscious lucius lover "You really do like me... You just don't know that you do." LaCroix ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:48:10 -0700 From: Storm Born <the_stormborn@y.......> Subject: Re: Angel vs. FK --- Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@m.......> wrote: >>Ger can do accents and look natural in period costuming. DB can't.<< Which is what, IMO, distinguishes an actor from a TV star. >>Angel doesn't show the weight of years, while Nick does.<< Ger handled a complex role with the depth and consideration it demanded. You *believed* that he had to struggle to keep his 'beast' in check, you *believed* that he sought salvation and yet was still tempted to give in to his vampirism. You even believed he could still laugh and joke, despite his situation. The man can act circles around most stars-for-15-minutes with his facial expressions alone. Ahem. OK, I'll stop raving now. <g> ===== Molly/StormBorn FKPagan/Cousin/Seducer/Ravenette/DT/Who's Army Legionnaire the_stormborn@y....... Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 05:24:33 -0700 From: Sebastian Giovanni <SebastianGiovanni@v.......> Subject: Angel/FK I have always had the warped idea that it would be great to cross Divia over into ANGEL. Scenario: since BUFFY/ANGEL already established that Vamps don't die when staked but go to "The Daemon Dimension"(as Angel did, for awhile) she could be brought back somehow(as they just did in the ANGEL season ender w/Angel's Sire, Darla) thru a ritual OR perhaps by the mysterious Powers(there have to be more that the two who "died"!) to be given a "second chance." Angel tried to reform Faith and in the end succeeded. Could he reform Divia? And what if Qa-Ra also showed up? Could Angel face down a vampire who just may have been an Atlantean Mage before his unlife(my scenario for my Divia stories is that Qa-Ra was such)? I must say, I DO enjpy theway ANGEL is taking a page from the FK book by doing flashbacks that correspond to the modern story. Oh, and who is "Sebastian Giovanni"? Carl, of course-- subbing from this e-mail because the one I ad subbed to under "Sebastian LaCroix" got all screwed up(I can't access that system at the moment). And yes, for V:TM lovers, I have switched from Toreador to Giovanni! Sebastian Dante Giovanni == "I have seen evil on this earth in all it's forms..." General Lucius Giovanni(LaCroix) "Life can cheat death; it will always find a way!"--Divia Giovanni(LaCroix) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:20:18 -0700 From: Storm Born <the_stormborn@y.......> Subject: Time for Another Top 10 List Top 10 Pieces of Advice from Lucien LaCroix: 10. Always get the upper hand, any way you can. 9. Always keep the upper hand, any way you can. 8. Prevent your children from access to sharp sticks. 7. If your children gain access to sharp sticks, watch your back. 6. Temptation works better than force 5. Allow yourself a little inconsistency; it keeps your opponents off-guard. 4. Remember that anyone, at any time, *is* your opponent. 3. What you have is almost always better than promises of what you might get. 2. Altruism ends where your own interests begin. 1. Remember: always pillage *before* you burn. ===== Molly/StormBorn FKPagan/Cousin/Seducer/Ravenette/DT/Who's Army Legionnaire the_stormborn@y....... Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 07:46:14 -0400 From: "Cindy L. Clark" <ClarkCindy@e.......> Subject: Re: Angel/FK From: "Sebastian Giovanni" > I have always had the warped idea that it would be great to cross Divia over into ANGEL.... > they just did in the ANGEL season ender w/Angel's Sire, Darla I look for Darla to become a very Divia-like character, but I believe that she'll be around to create havoc a lot longer than Divia was. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 07:53:27 -0400 From: clarkcindy <clarkcindy@e.......> Subject: Hayden Christensen According to the U.S. "TV Guide" for June 6-10, Hayden Christensen has officially gotten the nod to play Anakin Skywalker in the new "Star Wars". Filming is scheduled to start shooting later this month. Also his present series for FOX Family Channel, "Higher Ground" has not yet been renewed for next season. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:06:09 -0700 From: KYER <KYER@p.......> Subject: 'ello, 'ello! :)= "Dark Squirette brooded over the battlefield before her. Her knight was in the thick of it, and it was up to her to save.." [ Light S:. Psst! Dark? Dark, we're back online.] "..him from the hordes of angry Enforcers that.." [Light S.: But, Dark! We're on the List!] "..where taunting her milord..(Ga awa......<blink> we're what?)" [Light S.: We're back on line. <grins sheepishly at other listmembers. Gives a little wave.> [Dark S. surveys scenario of her imagination, waiting patiently for its heroine.] "Darn." [Kyer: Dark!] "What?" As far as this Angel thing everyone is talking about: How 'bout if they write it up that the Angel show experiences a temporal shift and all their characters become the FK characters? Then the Great Mistake can be corrected. <veg> :)= Kyer kyer@p....... and darn glad to be back amongst you all! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:37:23 -0700 From: Sebastian Giovanni <SebastianGiovanni@v.......> Subject: Different stakings The whole thing that seperates BTVS/ANGEL from FK is obviously the results of a staking--it's RARE to see an FK vamp disintegtate upon immediate staking. Ob- viously, the older the vamp, the harder to kill. This doesn't apply yo BTVS/ANGEL vamps. Unless, as LaCroix might observe, these vamps are of a lesser species... And yes, LaCroix would have a devilishly good time reducing Angel to tears...he could put him down with a raised eyebrow and a witticism. Sebastian Dante Giovanni DoD/RK/RP/CGW/Enforcers/KoC/FKP == "I have seen evil on this earth in all it's forms..." General Lucius Giovanni(LaCroix) "Life can cheat death; it will always find a way!"--Divia Giovanni(LaCroix) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:37:05 EDT From: MLCVamp@a....... Subject: Re: Angel and FK I adore Buffy and her "universe," so I'd best not get started on the subject!<G> While FK may be superior to Angel's series in some respects, no one can deny that the Buffy-Angel universe has FK beaten fangs down in continuity. Joss W. seldom includes any detail without a reason. The complexity of the story arc is awe-inspiring. (And the writing is wonderfully witty.) True, there's no denying that the character of Angel owes something to Nick (whose relationship with Nat, in turn, strongly echoes that of Barnabas Collins and Julia -- there's nothing wrong with being derivative, in itself). One of Angel's best lines is probably a direct tribute to FK -- where he comments that, until he met Buffy, he spent the past 100 years "honing" his "brooding skills." OTOH, just as Nick was not the first repentant, tormented vampire, he was far from the first vampire detective. The use of existing, established motifs and plot conventions does not necessarily equal "rip-off"! A fan writer, some months ago, was working on a story in which Nick, Nat, and LaCroix visit Sunnydale and meet Angel; she was sending the installments by e-mail to people who requested them. Anybody know what happened to that unfinished story? I was enjoying it. (I can't think of her name offhand.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:09:33 -0500 From: Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@m.......> Subject: Re: Angel and FK > MLCVamp@a....... > I adore Buffy and her "universe," so I'd best not get started on the > subject!<G> While FK may be superior to Angel's series in some > respects, no > one can deny that the Buffy-Angel universe has FK beaten fangs down in > continuity. Joss W. seldom includes any detail without a reason. The > complexity of the story arc is awe-inspiring. (And the writing is > wonderfully witty.) It does have better continuity, but as a whole, IMO it's a shallow story line. But the target audiences are different, too, since FK was aimed at an older audience. I don't see the overarching themes of good vs. evil, the nature of sin and redemption, in Buffy/Angel, not in any deep way. To me, FK was more intellectually stimulating. > True, there's no denying that the character of Angel owes > something to Nick (whose relationship with Nat, in turn, strongly echoes that of Barnabas > Collins and Julia -- there's nothing wrong with being derivative, > in itself). There will be echos of Nick whenever you have an angsty vampire, but it's some of the filming techniques that are a more direct copy -- e.g. the rising/setting sun shots. > repentant, tormented vampire, he was far from the first vampire detective. The use of > existing, established motifs and plot conventions does not necessarily > equal "rip-off"! One factor I think that sets Angel off from Nick is that he didn't come to his repentence through his own inner morality -- he had to be cursed before it happened. And he wasn't an admirable person when mortal -- he was a drunken, womanizing ne'er-do-well. Nick, on the other hand, was a good man who fell, and regained his "soul" without external forces (unless you consider the examples of moral mortals such as St. Joan an external force). I enjoy Buffy/Angel ad a clever, witty show, but I don't consider it a classic like FK is. IMO, YMMV, etc., of course! Nancy Kaminski nancykam@m....... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:11:38 -0700 From: Storm Born <the_stormborn@y.......> Subject: Re: Hayden Christensen Who the blazes is Hayden Christensen? Did he guest on FK, and if not, please keep OT. ===== Molly/StormBorn FKPagan/Cousin/Seducer/Ravenette/DT/Who's Army Legionnaire the_stormborn@y....... Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:16:39 EDT From: Libratsie@a....... Subject: Re: Hayden Christensen In a message dated Fri, 9 Jun 2000 3:12:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Storm Born <the_stormborn@y.......> writes: << Who the blazes is Hayden Christensen? Did he guest on FK, and if not, please keep OT.>> I've forgotten who he was on FK, but he was one of the child guest starts - maybe the British street kid in the WWII flashback? (Man oh man is my head blocked today). But it most definitely IS on topic as we were discussion him being in the running for the Star Wars role a few weeks or so back. I'm rather excited and looking forward to seeing him! An FK connection to Star Wars! I just find it satisfying somehow<wRPg> --Libs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:21:52 +0000 From: ldyangst@w....... Subject: Re: Hayden Christensen On 9 Jun 00 at 12:11, Storm Born wrote: > Who the blazes is Hayden Christensen? Did he guest on > FK, and if not, please keep OT. He was Andre in Fallen Idol. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:28:15 -0700 From: Storm Born <the_stormborn@y.......> Subject: Re: 'ello, 'ello! :)= Kyer's back! Kyer's back! Run for the hills! Er, oh, hi. <g> Seriously, Kyer--WELCOME BACK! ===== Molly/StormBorn FKPagan/Cousin/Seducer/Ravenette/DT/Who's Army Legionnaire the_stormborn@y....... Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:28:19 -0700 From: Kyer <kyer@p.......> Subject: Re: Angel and FK > repentant, tormented vampire, he was far from the first vampire detective. Um...not having been drawn to vampires (being more of the werewolf type mineself) before FK, which shows/movies had detective/cop vampires before Nicholas? And I agree with Nancy about the intellectual thingee. I always watched FK in order to stimulate my brain cell. GWD being as cute as a bloodsucker can get had absolutely *nothing* to do with it! ; ) Whereas I haven't watched even five seconds of Angel, I have seen half an ep of Buffy. It didn't strike me as very thought provoking---more monster-of-the-week. ('Course, it *could* be said that Nick had his bimbos-of-the-week, but they were secondary and in some cases actually had more brains than I do. <eg> ) (I'm not helping the cause much am I, Nancy? ....That's what I thought.) Kyer signing off! <mutter.> Oh, wait! Simone! I tried to e-mail you on how much I loved your Ancient Circles story, but the mail bounced. Please send me your correct addy? :)= kyer@p....... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:38:21 -0700 From: Storm Born <the_stormborn@y.......> Subject: Re: Hayden Christensen Open mouth, insert foot! <g> My deepest apologies; I just got completely lost there. ===== Molly/StormBorn FKPagan/Cousin/Seducer/Ravenette/DT/Who's Army Legionnaire the_stormborn@y....... Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:37:51 -0700 From: Kyer <kyer@p.......> Subject: Re: Hayden Christensen From: <ldyangst@w.......> > He was Andre in Fallen Idol. Yes! I think that LaCroix must have brainwashed the poor kid and turned him evil. Then some mysterious Force hijacked him to Tatooine where he whammied this lonely lady into thinking she was some sort of Virgin Mary and he was her innocent son. Then he whammied the somewhat senile Qui-Gon into taking him off to Coruscant. I suspect that Palpatine is not only Sidious in disguise, but LaCroix in disguise! Or maybe Divia. It's a plot! Oh, where is Nick? Someone must stop the General('s) Plot! :)= Kyer, kyer@p....... Paranoid-Twilight Schitzoid Knightie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:46:21 -0500 From: Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@m.......> Subject: Re: Angel and FK > Kyer wrote: > Um...not having been drawn to vampires (being more of the werewolf type > mineself) before FK, which shows/movies had detective/cop vampires before > Nicholas? I for one can't think of any. Of course, I'm not in the least bit interested in vampires, or any other supernatural stuff. I was attracted to FK by the stories, and of course, by the acting skill. (Ger's looks? Well, may that helped a little...<g>) > of Buffy. It didn't strike me as very thought provoking---more > monster-of-the-week. If it wasn't for the clever dialog, their monster/demon of the week would be a big yawn for me. And you know, I really don't think their monsters are particularly scary. What made the FK vampires so menacing was that they looked pretty much like everyone else, with just a certain edge to them. And they were much stronger, smarter, and just plain scarier than anything Buffy's cooked up. Divia is much more frightening than Adam! > (I'm not helping the cause much am I, Nancy? ....That's what I thought.) No, you're not, Kyer. But we forgive you. <g> Nancy Kaminski nancykam@m....... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:44:45 -0700 From: Sebastian Giovanni <SebastianGiovanni@v.......> Subject: Ah yes, the "face" thingie... Oops! I forgot that part---yeah, the infamous "face thingie" that started on BUFFY and makes the show(despite many good points) so cheesy(in that aspect, anyway). The simplest explanation would, of course, to be to say these vamps are different from FK vamps, and leave it at that. Also, BUFFY/ANGEL established that Vampires(their kind) basically were human bodies possessed by demons, with some memory, etc., remaining. Only Angel, apparently, has been given a "second chance", having a soul...but they're hinting that Spike is redeemable as well, which just may mean they have to rethink the whole vamps/demons merger thing. They've already shown that mere humans-- Faith, The Council,The Initiative--can be a helluva lot WORSE than the "monsters"! ANGEL is still as close to FK as we get today, though. Put Angel up against Spike...it's Nick/LaCroix(albeit younger ones) all over again! (Although Spike said in the second season that Angel was his "Sire"--Master-- it's already bee established Drusilla Brought him Across; maybe Angel, as his "grandsire",instructed him...). Perhaps the errors on TV will be corrected when they start making the BUFFY movies for theaters(which is supposed to happen next year)they can fix up all the cheesiness, like STAR TREK did from the original series Klingons to the new,improved versions??? Sebastian == "I have seen evil on this earth in all it's forms..." General Lucius Giovanni(LaCroix) "Life can cheat death; it will always find a way!"--Divia Giovanni(LaCroix) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:51:34 -0700 From: Storm Born <the_stormborn@y.......> Subject: Re: Angel and FK --- MLCVamp@a....... wrote: >>While FK may be superior to Angel's series in some respects<< I certainly can't improve upon Nancy's response to this. Just to chip in my own dva kopeks: FK asked deep, thought-provoking questions and didn't shell out any easy answers. Angel/Buffy is entertainment, the TV equivalent of a 'fun read'; FK was literature, in that it made you think and reflect. >>True, there's no denying that the character of Angel owes something to Nick (whose relationship with Nat, in turn, strongly echoes that of Barnabas Collins and Julia --<< Julia and Nat are both trying to find a cure for the vampires they love. However, Barnabas was totally unresponsive to Julia, as he believed Maggie was the reincarnation of his beloved Josette. Nick doesn't have that baggage, and he does reciprocate Nat's feelings. >>OTOH, just as Nick was not the first repentant, tormented vampire, he was far from the first vampire detective.<< I'm not aware of any previous vampire detectives, offhand (although I'm not aware of the start date of PN Elrod's Vampire Files). Who are you thinking of, please? ===== Molly/StormBorn FKPagan/Cousin/Seducer/Ravenette/DT/Who's Army Legionnaire the_stormborn@y....... Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:07:35 EDT From: Libratsie@a....... Subject: Re: Angel and FK Molly scribbled: <<I'm not aware of any previous vampire detectives, offhand (although I'm not aware of the start date of PN Elrod's Vampire Files). Who are you thinking of, please?>> I'm almost positive that Pat's (PN) vampire detective books predate Forever Knight (or at least the first few). I'm at work on break so I can't dash to my bookshelves and see<g> There's another series that I can't remember the title or the author for sure right off hand, but I think the author MAY be Tanith Lee. Those ***I THINK*** may predate FK (I read them after first watching FK so I could totally be wrong - I don't ever remember looking at the copyright date). --Libs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:24:42 -0500 From: Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@m.......> Subject: Re: Angel and FK > Libratsie@a....... > sure right off hand, but I think the author MAY be Tanith Lee. > Those ***I THINK*** may predate FK (I read them after first > watching FK so I could totally be wrong - I don't ever remember > looking at the copyright date). Oh! Oh! There's a couple of books called "Blood Hunt" and "Blood Link" by Lee Killough. In fact, on the back of the book is the blurb that reads something like, "Before there was Nick Knight, there was Gareth Mikaelien..." Although I don't normally read vampire stuff, Nick is very much like Gareth, who is blond, a San Francisco policeman, and very unhappy about his state of undeath. These two books were recently in one volume called "Blood Walk." They are very, very good, and I recommend them highly. Nancy Kaminski nancykam@m....... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:36:21 -0400 From: mclisa@m....... Subject: Admin: Please watch the civility level Guys, please watch the civility level in general. Remember that because person A dislikes a program or actor, that doesn't mean that person B isn't entitled to like it or him. It is not a problem on this list for someone to like a program better than FK, or as much. All opinions are accorded equal respect as long as they are politely phrased. Also, please remember that McLisa is an Old,Gray Mare and insists on drawing room manners. <rueful smile> Cousin McLisa (Lisa McDavid) "That will be Trouble." mclisa@m....... Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l Thanks! Cousin McLisa (Lisa McDavid) "That will be Trouble." mclisa@m....... Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:37:32 -0400 From: mclisa@m....... Subject: Elrod and FK Elrod's books do date from several years earlier than FK, except, of course, for the one she co-wrote with Nigel Bennett. She is and was a fan of FK, as anyone who ever met her at a con found out. Cousin McLisa (Lisa McDavid) "That will be Trouble." mclisa@m....... Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l ------------------------------ End of FORKNI-L Digest - 8 Jun 2000 to 9 Jun 2000 (#2000-167) *************************************************************
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