FORKNI-L
Digest - 26 Mar 2000 to 27 Mar 2000 (#2000-92)
Mon, 27 Mar 2000
There are 21 messages totalling 757 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Rare FK video clip (2)
2. Prevalent themes in FK
3. YKYB... (2)
4. Questions about FK vampirism (3)
5. FK/Beauty & Beast crossover (2)
6. Speed of sound (WAS: Re: FORKNI-L Digest - 22 Mar 2000 (#2000-86)) (2)
7. Admin: Forkni-l rules
8. vid cap
9. Fw: A Message for Garcia. Okay, the List.
10. Thoughts on FK Episode Production
11. FK Vampire Abilities vs Others (3)
12. Quick question regarding 'The Fix'
13. Thank you voters!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:22:11 +0200
From: Cloudrider Siri <cloudrider99@y.......>
Subject: Re: Rare FK video clip
<Delurking for a moment>
Nancy A. Taylor wrote:
> I have just made a video clip of what I believe to be a rather
> rare scene for Forever Knight. This is the scene in Father Figure
> where Nick is filling his wine bottles with blood from a barrel.
Whow, we have a german scene that's not even on master tapes?
Cool. Feeling on the sunny side again ;)
It's a great idea to make clips of missing scenes, as Kristin
started with Last Act recently. Must be difficult to track them
down. Maybe the end of Human Factor is another candidate?
As great as this barrel scene is, I admit it's the only one that
makes even sense to me to cut it out, that is at the place it was
shown. Or maybe it was rather inserted later? Ever since I first
saw it (in 97 when it was aired here in Germany) I thought they
must have been really desperately looking for *anything* to fill
another minute. It's so completely outlandish, starting with the
(terrific!) medieval shirt but mainly, no way Nick would leisurely
fill his bottles from this giant barrel in the middle of his living
room, then start dozing sitting beside it, happily embracing a
bottle, while little Lisa was sleeping upstairs!
Made me wonder if they had shot a collection of spare scenes for
stock that aren't obviously related to any plot, for inserting it
whenever they needed a filler? There are quite a few of that sort in
the beginning of first season, like Nick lying on the floor with the
Tarot cards, or simply driving around with the Caddy while snippets
of conversations earlier in the same ep are repeated.
I would love the barrel scene in lots of other eps, it just looks
odd to me in Father Figure :-)
Siri (aka CloudRider)
fknet@i.......
http://fknet.freehosting.net/index2.html
I was going to look up the definition of procrastination, but
I never got around to it. (JuliaL)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:02:36 EST
From: Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Prevalent themes in FK
I was watching Tom Hanks being interviewed on "Inside the Actors Studio"
tonight, and he said that a mentor once told him that all the great stories
are about loneliness. I began to think how very true that is of Forever
Knight. Loneliness, and the desire to be free of it, is the basic motivating
factor for almost every single character on the show.
LaCroix creates Nicholas to be his companion in immortality. He chose
Nicholas because, among other reasons, Nicholas had in common with him the
experience of being a warrior.
Nicholas chose to turn back from the doorway and be a vampire to be with
Janette. He centuries later embarks on his quest to regain his humanity
because he feels cut off from the family of man, those who share God's grace.
I think part of the reason that Natalie is so drawn to Nick is because his
tremendous loneliness echoes hers.
Just spitballing, I'd love to hear what other people think on the subject.
Laurie of the Isles
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:12:47 -0700
From: KYER <KYER@p.......>
Subject: YKYB...
Wallowing In Too Much Fic When...
While blearly checking your work for mistakes you you mutter out loud:
"Dang it! There's *another* typo!"
And a rather gleamy-eyed LaCroix asks:
"Where?"
(If you need someone to explain *that* to you, I suggest you re-watch Dark
Knight.)
Grinned,
Kyer
kyer@p.......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 23:59:53 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <sandragray@r.......>
Subject: Re: Questions about FK vampirism
Tracy Sue wrote:
>To expand on this, since Nick crys clear tears in Last Knight, (and
because he >can't hear Nat's heartbeat, and assumes that she's
>dead instead of mearly on the brink )you could assume that he has come
across >and is mortal now.
In the tag of Stranger than Fiction, Nick's eyes seem to have
clear tears in them before Nat goes out the elevator. At least
it looks like clear tears to me.
While it makes for some drama to use blood tears in stories, I
don't think it can be considered supported by FK canon. If all
a vampire's body fluids were blood based, it seems to me that
the normal fluid in eyes would be tinged red in the vampires.
And they're not. Wouldn't spit also be red or pink too?
Actually, I can't remember any other case of seeing a vampire
sweat blood except for Nick. One could make the argument that
such blood sweat is rare, only appearing in cases of abnormal
body conditions (stress, illness, extreme exertion, etc.).
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--sandragray@r.......
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 04:11:30 -0800
From: Chris Rosmini <chrismin@e.......>
Subject: Re: Rare FK video clip
Siri wrote about the "Nick filling the bottles " scene in Father Figure:
>Made me wonder if they had shot a collection of spare scenes for
>stock that aren't obviously related to any plot, for inserting it
>whenever they needed a filler?
And of course that's exactly what they were, intended to provide something
that could be excised for the US market without eviscerating the plot, or
to be a neutral background for voice-overs.
I figure, since we see Nick standing by the fireplace clutching a bottle
just before the "barrel scene" that this one is a memory; it's Pensive Nick
reflecting on what makes him different from the other kids. If it wasn't
he would have had to change into the white shirt and then back into his
nice blue jacket before taking his nap.
Actually, I think that scene and the other filler scenes in the loft are
one of the delights of First Season, even if they don't always strictly
make sense. :-) They are so wonderfully evocative of the isolation and
singularity of Nick's life, caught between the world he can't join and the
world he won't join, and also of the tedium and confinement that would be a
large part of any vampire's existence. The later seasons seem to be so
caught up in the melodrama of vampires that they forget that sense of the
_strangeness_ of them.
Someone used to post with a sig line including a quotation that was
roughly: "Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with
themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon." It always made me think of those
scenes in the loft.
Chris Rosmini
<chrismin@e.......>
Knightie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 06:58:21 -0600
From: Carla Martinek <copper6500@y.......>
Subject: FK/Beauty & Beast crossover
Margaret Newman wrote an FK / Beauty and the Beast crossover called
"Friendly Shadows." I've cc:ed her on this email, but I'm not sure if
it's still valid.
On the fanfic site, the story only appears to be about a page long, and
I wonder if it is longer that that. It kind of leaves me hanging,
thinking that there has to be more.
Can anyone confirm this, or do you have the entire story if it does go
beyond this last paragraph?
"There have been a few changes since the last time you visited."
Vincent answered, a rumbling noise in his chest suggested a chuckle.
* * * * *
Thanks,
Carla
aka copper6500@y.......
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:21:25 -0500
From: "Brenda F. Bell" <webwarren@e.......>
Subject: Speed of sound (WAS: Re: FORKNI-L Digest - 22 Mar 2000 (#2000-86))
At 01:31 AM 3/24/00 PST, Eric McCann wrote:
>Actually, no. The speed of sound does not rely at all on an object's shape
>or size. The amount of force it takes for that object to *break* the sound
>barrier does. The speed of sound relies on altitude and (as I recall)
>temperature.
Actually, it depends upon the density and velocity of the atoms and/or
molecules in the medium through which the object is passing (remember,
sound is produced by atoms and molecules "bouncing into" each other; there
is no sound in hard vacuum). Since the atmosphere gets thinner at higher
altitudes, and since temperature is a measure of the speed at which
adjacent molecules collide with each other, the speed of sound in
air/earth-atmosphere will change with both of those.
>With enough force, you could make a brick go supersonic, but
>you would find it much easier to make something pencil-shaped (say) go
>supersonic.
Free association:
supersonic brick (Nick?)... speed of sound in solids... speed of
propagation of a crack in a solid (cannot propagate faster than the speed
of sound in the medium)... propagation of a vamp in a solid? (speed of a
vamp propagating in a solid?)... propagation of a vamp... speed of
propagation of a vamp depending upon the speed of vamp blood transport
through the victim's body?... fast and shallow (due to lack of blood in
circulatory system)? slow absorption (minimal transport due to lack of
blood in circulatory system)? propagation speed affected by some element
specific to vamp blood? some element specific to vamp saliva?
Comments? Ideas? General silliness?
Brenda F. Bell webwarren@e....... /nick TMana IM: n2kye
Arctophile, computer addict, TREKker, stealth photographer...
UA, PoCBS, FKPagan; Neon-Green GlowWorm
HugMistress of the Ger Bear Project https://members.tripod.com/~TMana/
Gerthering 3 Photos: http://nj5.injersey.com/~ic97/gertherng/
Visit the Fiendish Glow at http://home.earthlink.net/~webwarren/glow/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:08:41 -0500
From: Cindy Clark <clarkcindy@e.......>
Subject: Re: FK/Beauty & Beast crossover
I have read this one too, and thought that there should be more to the
story. It's a nice beginning with great possibilities, and I was
disappointed that it was so short.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:23:16 -0500
From: mclisa@m.......
Subject: Admin: Forkni-l rules
For information on managing your subscription and on listserv commands,
please see Don Fasig's page
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Thanks!
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mclisa@m.......
Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:45:03 -0600
From: "Cynthia L. Faut" <niteluvr@s.......>
Subject: vid cap
I have the same problen with both Nancy's and Kristen's last one I got
(sharing Nicky's blood and the memories she got with it). My realplayer
says I don't have a v- something compressor. Cindy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:40:51 -0500
From: mclisa@m.......
Subject: Fw: A Message for Garcia. Okay, the List.
Comments should go to Apache's address below, as she'll get them faster that
way. Thanks! McL
-----Original Message-----
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
>Dear Listfolk,
>
> The news that a couple of my stories had been nominated for an FK fic
>award came just after my Dad died suddenly, and the news that one of them
>made the final ballot has just come tonight, two days after getting home
>from taking care of lots of family stuff. There's no way you guys could
>have known it, but these gestures of inclusion have been a lovely crumb of
>comfort during these past couple weeks.
>
> Although I am not able to be on the list anymore because of the
>contract with Sony books (and Jayel and I, like all y'all, keep hoping
>there will be another round of FK novels), I want to thank you for the
>nominations. They are a nice reminder that that part of my world is still
>out there.
>
> Those of you who have been on the list for some years know that
>FK-dom is an uncommonly good-hearted fandom. In fact, during these past
>two weeks, I have been depending *hugely* on the support of some close
>friends who started out as e-friends from the FK list. So I know that as
>you read this, your prayers and good wishes will be with me and my family
>-- in the years I was on the list, several listmembers suffered tragedies,
>and each time, prayers and good wishes came pouring out. At least once,
>the list organized and replaced stuff a list-sib lost in one of the
>Florida hurricanes -- up to and including a computer, if memory serves.
>
> And just to show you guys I'm doing OK, I'll add -- If anyone else
>but me were posting this, I would be simultaneously feeling deep sympathy
>and thinking "jeez, talk about a pitch for *votes*. Is she also going to
>throw in that her dog has gingivitis or somethin'?"
>
> The dog's fine, and I will be. And y'all contributed to that --
>one more good thing, among many, that FK has added to my life.
>
>
>Apache
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:14:34 -0500
From: br1035@i.......
Subject: Re: Questions about FK vampirism
Sandra wrote:
<snip>Actually, I can't remember any other case of seeing a vampire
>sweat blood except for Nick. One could make the argument that
>such blood sweat is rare, only appearing in cases of abnormal
>body conditions (stress, illness, extreme exertion, etc.).<snip>
Screed has the bloodsweats in 'Fever,' but this can fall under
'abnormal body conditions.'
The idea of vampires sweating under anything but abnormal conditons is
pretty interesting to me, since a main purpose of perspiration as
a body function is maintaining a constant body temperature. FK
vampires are referred to as cold, at least Nat observes that when she
first meets Nick in the 'Only the Lonely' flashback. In warm-blooded
animals, when body temperatures diverge too much from the norm, proteins
essential to body functions begin to break down. Maybe FK vamps aren't cold
simply because they're 'dead.' Maybe they *need* to maintain a specific cooler
body temperature so that their vampire-specific proteins can function.
On to other things, I agree that the blood-as-all-body-fluids idea isn't
supported by canon. As Sandra said, this would result in tell-tale signs
around the eyes and mouth, as well as other interesting things. We never see
these. Having a trait like blood saliva would be too noticeable and too
difficult to conceal in sociable monsters, and FK vampires certainly mingle
among humans for purposes other than just killing.
Furthermore, assuming vampires need to consume blood because of something
it contains - hence Nat's whole attempt at constructing protein shakes - it
makes sense that it is digested in some way. FK treats blood as more analogous
to food or alcohol than straight water. How often do we sweat or spit
in the form of coffee or chocolate, even when these are our most diligent
and delightful consumptions?
Of course, all of these ideas are very anthropomorphic, rather than trying to
conjecture more metaphysical reasons and treat our vampires as spiritual
creatures beyond human understanding or comprehension, for whom our rules of
physics and chemistry need not apply. In other words, I'm questioning the
reasoning of TPTB in terms of the real world - a sure sign that I'm
headed for disillusionment, or at least an embolism. :D
<waves>
***************************************************************************
Bonnie Rutledge......<br1035@i.......>......Evil - The Puppy Says So!
Nunkies Anonymous Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/~br1035/nunkies.html
Spare Bambi! I Play With Voodoo Dolls. LaCroix for President - 2000!
"I have a <hand motion> psychological problem with that."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:50:12 EST
From: Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: Thoughts on FK Episode Production
In a message dated 03/26/2000 11:57:23 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
Phoenix348@a....... writes:
<< Other than the dispatcher, the conversation between Reese, Tracy and the
girl in the interrogation room and...most notably...Nigel's great
monologue...there's no dialogue for almost all of the last ten minutes of the
episode. The work of climax is mostly accomplished by silent actors,
You made excellent points all round. I hadn't thought about before, but now
that you've brought it up I totally see what you mean. One thing I have
noted before is the capacity of all the main FK players to convey tremendous
emotion without uttering a word. I've watched entire thought processes flash
by on GWD or NB's faces. CD too has a very expressive face. Thanks for
bringing this up.
Laurie of the Isles
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:33:07 EST
From: teri delong <darius4evr@h.......>
Subject: Re: Questions about FK vampirism
>From: br1035@i.......
>rules of physics and chemistry need not apply. In other words, I'm
>questioning the reasoning of TPTB in terms of the real world - a sure sign
>that I'm headed for disillusionment, or at least an embolism. :D
While we've often questioned the reasoning of TPTB <g>, there is another way
of thinking in terms of the real world that I suppose could be a factor in
why the FK vampires ever did or did not display blood-colored saliva and
eye-moisture. How difficult would this look be to maintain on a mortal
actor? What would they have to use in the actor's eyes and mouth to produce
this bloody effect? According to myth and legend, vampires could not be seen
in a mirror, but we already know that the FK vampires *can* be because the
special effects required to remove the mirror image was too expensive, so
TPTB wrote around it. And recently, when the question was asked,"Why did
Nick choose *that* color for his car?" the best answer turned out to
be,"Because that color didn't glare under the lights when filming as badly
as the black Caddy did." ::sigh:: RL reasoning.
There are wonderful arguments both for and against the idea of blood-tears
and saliva, but what if the final deciding factor for FK was simply, how
much more can we do to these poor actors who have already suffered through
hideous contacts, damaging eye drops, and undiluted Ribena?? How much more
uncomfortable can we make the filming of this fantastic show?
And as I read back over what I just wrote, I go ACK!!! This is coming from
ME?? The one who always got furious with her father, who after listening to
me complain about someone acting out of character(Why would they DO
that????That's STUPID!! Why would they SAY that???)would calmly and
realistically reply,"Because that's the way the script was written."
Apparently I've had too large a dose of RL lately! Please forgive!!
Teri--happily heading back to DenialLand now, thank you!! :o)
Proud Vaquera/Vachon's vassal/Defender of Brown-eyed Vamps
V-looper/Vaqdreamer/bbfc/B&C/T+Vpack/Fanatic/DP/DNP/DNN/NNpack
ForeverNat/RP/Crew/GKfc/GWDfc/NigelBennett and WA lurker
http://www.benbassfanclub.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:57:00 -0800
From: Berg <berg@e.......>
Subject: Re: Speed of sound (WAS: Re: FORKNI-L Digest - 22 Mar 2000 (#2000-86))
webwarren@e....... wrote:
> At 01:31 AM 3/24/00 PST, Eric McCann wrote:
Actually, no. The speed of sound does not rely at all on an object's
shape or size. The amount of force it takes for that object to
*break* the sound barrier does. The speed of sound relies on altitude
and (as I recall) temperature.
> Actually, it depends upon the density and velocity of the atoms and/or
> molecules in the medium through which the object is passing (remember,
> sound is produced by atoms and molecules "bouncing into" each other;
> there is no sound in hard vacuum). Since the atmosphere gets thinner at
> higher altitudes, and since temperature is a measure of the speed at
> which adjacent molecules collide with each other, the speed of sound in
> air/earth-atmosphere will change with both of those.
Sheesh, that's one of the most nit-picky things I've heard in
weeks. The higher your altitude the less atmospheric density you have to
work with, and the temperature of an object is directly dependant on the
speed of the molecules inside of it.
Saying that altitude and temperature are wrong and that density
and molecular velocity is right is just nit-picky, since they ARE
essentially the same things...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:33:45 -0500
From: "Laura C. Vandivier" <lmc@g.......>
Subject: FK Vampire Abilities vs Others
I haven't read much vampire fiction, so I was wondering if some of you
who have might be able to answer a question for me. In what other
novels/tv shows/movies do vampires have the same (or lack the same)
powers and abilities as FK Vampires? Are there other sources where
vampires can fly and hypnotize but not turn into bats or wolves or
whatever? (I know this is a simplified example.) Thanks!
--Laura
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:54:03 -0500
From: Diane Harris <dharris@h.......>
Subject: Quick question regarding 'The Fix'
What year was The Fix supposed to take place? 1995? I can't remember, and
I need it for a fanfiction that I'm writing.
Thanks in advance!
Diane (dharris@h.......)
Hopeless NNPacker with strong Knightie / Dark Knightie tendencies and a hint
of FoDs for good measure...
www.his.com/~eschmid/Homepage.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:00:01 EST
From: Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: FK Vampire Abilities vs Others
In a message dated 3/27/00 1:39:55 PM Central Standard Time, lmc@g.......
writes:
> In what other
> novels/tv shows/movies do vampires have the same (or lack the same)
> powers and abilities as FK Vampires?
Vampire legends of one sort or another tend to be world wide with varying
powers, abilities, myths, etc. so to pin point an exact example of a story
where the vampire has the exact abilities (or lack of) as FK would be
difficult though I'm sure someone will come up with some.
Even FK contradicted itself. Early on, Nick makes a reference to being able
to see himself in a mirror some of the time. Later, in 3rd season, I think I
recall seeing Vachon's reflection (although I could be wrong as it has been a
while since I've seen BBI & II).
--Libs
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:12:51 EST
From: Jlkerr1228@a.......
Subject: Re: FK Vampire Abilities vs Others
In a message dated 03/27/00 11:39:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, lmc@g.......
writes:
> In what other
> novels/tv shows/movies do vampires have the same (or lack the same)
> powers and abilities as FK Vampires? Are there other sources where
> vampires can fly and hypnotize but not turn into bats or wolves or
> whatever?
Go to: http://www.pathwaytodarkness.com/facts/comparison1.htm
They have a chart here that compares the World of Darkness (White Wolf),
Buffy, Forever Knight, Anita Blake and Anne Rice vampires.
J L Kerr
jlkerr1228@a.......
hometown.aol.com/jlkerr7864/f_knight/fiction.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 09:29:22 +1200
From: Knightraven <knightraven@c.......>
Subject: Thank you voters!
Thank you so much everyone who nominated my stories!! I'm so very,
very<brushtearaway> happy!
Hugs to all,
Kylie.
knightraven@c.......
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/knightraven
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:56:28 EST
From: Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: YKYB...
Kyer,
Okay, I don't get it. And I'm too busy cursing at Homestead to rewatch Dark
Knight. <g> So come on, what gives?
Laurie
In a message dated 03/26/2000 8:16:54 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
KYER@p....... writes:
<< Wallowing In Too Much Fic When...
While blearly checking your work for mistakes you you mutter out loud:
"Dang it! There's *another* typo!"
And a rather gleamy-eyed LaCroix asks:
"Where?"
(If you need someone to explain *that* to you, I suggest you re-watch Dark
Knight.)
------------------------------
End of FORKNI-L Digest - 26 Mar 2000 to 27 Mar 2000 (#2000-92)
**************************************************************
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