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Digest - 10 Mar 2000 to 11 Mar 2000 (#2000-71)

Sat, 11 Mar 2000

There are 15 messages totalling 576 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Catherine Disher on the CBC (again) (2)
  2. Your Daily Vote and FK's *dropped* Position
  3. FK Chat (2)
  4. CBC Radio strikes again
  5. Nat's boss
  6. fanfic question...how fast can vampires fly??? (3)
  7. AWARDS: Nomination Period Extended to Monday
  8. FK Chat on onelist
  9. Your Daily Vote & FK's **Increased** Position
 10. Onelist (Was Catherine Disher on the CBC)
 11. Converts and Canonical Gaps


Date:    Mon, 10 Mar 1980 14:35:36 -0800
From:    Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......>
Subject: Catherine Disher on the CBC (again)

Last week, I posted a note about Catherine Disher's role in CBC Radio
One's 'National Affairs', and how folks could listen to it using
RealAudio on CBC Radio's website. (Click the "Live Audio" link at
cbc.ca.) Unfortunately, it didn't air in its usual 9:30-9:45 a.m. slot
today. I expect they've taken one of their periodic breaks, and will
return in a few weeks. (How's that for Murphy's Law in action?)

To prove that this isn't all in my imagination, look at the CBC "This
Morning" archive for last Friday at:

I'll post a note when 'National Affairs' returns to the airwaves again;
I'm not concerned that it's been cancelled, since its been part of CBC's
flagship "This Morning" program ever since "This Morning" started 2 1/2
years ago.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred


Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:37:03 EST
From:    KnghtWtch@a.......
Subject: Re: Your Daily Vote and FK's *dropped* Position

In a message dated 3/10/00 8:16:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kris1228@s....... writes:

<< This is just a reminder for you to add your daily vote on the Global 100
Thanks Kris.  It's like I requested, everytime I see the reminder, I go right
then and there and vote.  Thanks again for the reminders.
KnightWitch ;-]=


Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:46:38 EST
From:    Alifoxx@a.......
Subject: FK Chat

For anyone wanting to know of another FK chat, this is the AOL chat on Monday
evenings at 11 pm, EST -  <A HREF="aol://4344:754.tvrc.6701083.561337992">Chat
/Remote Control</A>

Just enter the room, it's easy. This chat has been going on for years!



Date:    Mon, 10 Mar 1980 19:25:47 -0800
From:    Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......>
Subject: CBC Radio strikes again

I was watching "Spin Doctor" for the first time tonight, and otherwise
minding my own business, when I heard a familiar voice coming from the
TV. The end credits confirmed my suspicion. Scott Walker, the actor
playing the TV reporter is a CBC Radio news announcer who handles various
national newscasts. He also has a weekly CBC Radio One feature, "Scott
Walker's Musical Almanac", on this week in popular music history.

Under the "creeping Americanisms" heading: from this episode, note that,
despite what Don Schanke might think, in Canada, voter registration isn't
part of the usual election process. (But maybe it is for Ontario civic
elections?) Also, it would likely be a major scandal for a judge or
former judge to run for any political office. They usually get appointed
to lead Royal Commissions & judicial inquiries instead ;-)

Your humble & obedient servant,


Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 2000 01:13:34 EST
From:    DanaKnight@a.......
Subject: Re: Nat's boss

In a message dated 3/10/2000 5:02:07 PM, LISTSERV@l....... writes:

<< We've never had anything in canon about Nat's boss.  The Jill reference
must be fanfic.

I named Nat's boss Terri.



Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:05:09 -0000
From:    Nadine Ziekursch <naddy1228@y.......>
Subject: fanfic question...how fast can vampires fly???

I've been asked by a friend (not on the list) who is writing on some fanfic
piece to ask on-list if anyone has ANY idea how fast the FK vampires can
fly...more specific, how long would it take a vampire to fly from Toronto to
Colorado? Any suggestions???
No idea what the story will about, but since I had NO idea how to answere
that question myself I thought I would ask onlist...<G>

"Dogs believe they are human. Cats believe they are God."
ICQ# 38718805


Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 2000 02:11:36 EST
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: fanfic question...how fast can vampires fly???

In a message dated 03/10/2000 11:55:53 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
naddy1228@y....... writes:

<< I've been asked by a friend (not on the list) who is writing on some fanfic
 piece to ask on-list if anyone has ANY idea how fast the FK vampires can
 fly...more specific, how long would it take a vampire to fly from Toronto to
 Colorado? Any suggestions??? >>

I don't think there's anything in canon to answer this.  We see in "Ashes to
Ashes" that Divia flies faster than other vampires, presumably because of her
greater powers.

Laurie of the Isles


Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 2000 06:41:46 -0600
From:    Carla Martinek <copper6500@y.......>
Subject: Re: FK Chat

If any of you want to join the forkni-l list on Onelist, there is a chat room
there for the list.

In regards to the list itself:  I "cybersquatted" on the forkni-l@o....... list
a while ago in case our current list decided to move. (with the full knowledge
of the listowners soon after the fact.)

Recently, there were several people who joined the list over there to make sure
that the list name remained ours.  This was because egroups and onelist merged,
and someone had created a forkni-l list on egroups two years ago, but it had
been active.  TPTB in the merger sent out letters, and in the case of duplicate
names, they looked at number of members and activity on the list as the deciding
factors on who would get to keep the name.

Several members of this list responded when I asked for some people to sub to the
list and just start generating some mail to insure that OUR forkni-l would be the
one that kept its name.  Anything was allowable to be sent - it did not have to
be FK related.  In fact, lots of good jokes went through the list in the last few
weeks. :-)

The forkni-l list on onelist is NOT intended to replace or compete with
forkni-l@l......., and I do NOT want anyone to join it as such.

That said, however, it *does* seem to be a perfect place for chatting, since
each list also gets its own chat room.

Go to http://www.onelist.com/group/forkni-l , and join the list.  I suggest that
you select the WEB ONLY / NO MAIL option when you join.

If anyone has any other questions, please feel free ask!  In fact, I will go
drop into the chat room this morning while I'm working on some other stuff.

Carla, aka copper6500@y.......


Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:52:20 -0500
From:    Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......>
Subject: Re: AWARDS: Nomination Period Extended to Monday

Mel --
Whew! This is great news -- my ISP (Erol's) swooned for 36 hours last
weekend, so I missed some major reading/nominating time!

mcombs@e....... N&Npacker


Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:35:33 -0600
From:    Carla Martinek <copper6500@y.......>
Subject: Re: FK Chat on onelist


there appears to be some problems with the onelist chat software, and it's not
just confined to our list.

I've reported the problem, and will let y'all know when it's up.  Feel free to
still subscribe if you want, though.

Carla, aka copper6500@y.......


Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:31:03 -0600
From:    Kristin Harris <kris1228@s.......>
Subject: Your Daily Vote & FK's **Increased** Position


This is just a reminder for you to add your daily vote on the Global 100

To vote go here: http://www.global100.com/item.asp?Item=51259

We could really use the help of those wo have never voted before.

Currently it INCREASED to the *#5* position unofficially!(this is what needs
to increase so it will officially). Keep it up! That's great!

Officially it is in the #7 position.



Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:24:03 -0500
From:    "Brenda F. Bell" <webwarren@e.......>
Subject: Re: Catherine Disher on the CBC (again)

At 02:35 PM 3/10/80 -0800, Angela Gottfried wrote:

>Last week, I posted a note about Catherine Disher's role in CBC Radio
>One's 'National Affairs'...

>look at the CBC "This Morning" archive for last Friday at:

I checked out the link Angela gave us and found further that:

>To order tapes or transcripts of the show please contact Bowden's Media
Monitoring (1-800-363-1530) with the correct date and time you heard the
segment that you're interested in. Payment may be made by cheque, money
order or major credit cards.

So, if you're interested...

Brenda F. Bell   webwarren@e.......   /nick TMana     IM: n2kye
Arctophile, computer addict, TREKker, stealth photographer...
        UA, PoCBS, FKPagan; Neon-Green GlowWorm
HugMistress of the Ger Bear Project https://members.tripod.com/~TMana/
Gerthering 3 Photos:  http://nj5.injersey.com/~ic97/gertherng/
Visit the Fiendish Glow at http://home.earthlink.net/~webwarren/glow/


Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:12:43 -0800
From:    Liz the Lucky <lizthelucky@h.......>
Subject: Re: fanfic question...how fast can vampires fly???

Nadine asked:
> I've been asked by a friend (not on the list) who is writing on some
> fanfic piece to ask on-list if anyone has ANY idea how fast the FK
> vampires can fly...

In Jane Doe, we've seen Nick move faster than light, since that's about the
only way he could have gotten ahead of whatshisname several times.

> more specific, how long would it take a vampire to fly from Toronto to
> Colorado? Any suggestions???

Depends on how much luggage he takes. ;-) Seriously, we don't really have
any info. Divia reached TO from Egypt in a night, but for all we know, she
could have found a plane headed in the right direction and hitched a ride on
top of it.

In my stories, I've always figured a vampire can fly as fast as she or he
wants. But the fast they fly, the Hungrier they'll be when they land.

Hope this helps.

Hugs and Kisses,
Liz the Lucky                          FoD                          Merc
luckyliz@m.......              Nanette          DNP         Nother
http://www.mindspring.com/~luckyliz Official Story Titler of the Nothers


Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:21:14 -0600
From:    Carla Martinek <copper6500@y.......>
Subject: Onelist (Was Catherine Disher on the CBC)

> >Last week, I posted a note about Catherine Disher's role in CBC Radio
> >One's 'National Affairs'...

This is perfect segue into my email.  (See *Calendar below)  I'm sending
along the same information I just sent to the forkni-l@o....... group,
since I think this list can make use of the same stuff.



A couple of things:

First of all, we officially have the list name now, so we no longer need to
volume post in an effort to retain the name.  Please continue to use the
regular forkni-l@l....... for general FK discussions.  You can still
post fun stuff here for now, including passing along that great joke you
just got.

Please note that I reserve the right to turn forkni-l@o....... into an
announcement only or moderated list (meaning no one can post except the
moderators or with moderators permission). I'd like people to consider this
site as a companion to the original list, not a replacement.

Second, lets make use of the features available to us through
The most important ones I think are:

*Calendar - use the calendar to put up dates relating to anything FK,
including CONS or other shows where our favorite actors/actresses are
appearing, CON dates, etc.  Please be sure to indicate locations, channels,
times, and timezones if appropriate.  Include a web link if available.
Think how great it would be if you could easily look at a calendar and see
that NB was on tonight, or GWD was on next weekend?

*Links - we can add links to any FK-related site.  I've already put Mel's
fanfic sit up there.  Put your own FK site there, your affiliation's site,

*Chat - well, if they ever get it working again.... :-)  A place for us to

*Database feature - a place where we could create databases for typical
things, like contact lists (email, IRC, IM, etc.), FAQs, etc.  I'd rather we
not post addresses and phone numbers in the contact lists, please, and I
WILL edit them out if you include them!

After writing the above paragraph, I went ahead and created a contact
database for email and messaging.  Feel free to add a record in for
yourself, and only that information you want to share.  Nothing is required.

Anyone subscribed to the list can add links, create databases, add to the
calendar, so let's do it!



Date:    Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:12:27 -0800
From:    "Amy R." <akr@l.......>
Subject: Converts and Canonical Gaps

In Thursday's digest, "Doņa Angel D.S." <donaangel@h.......> asked:
<<what is commonly accepted in FK FanFic and FK Fandom about the following:>>

This is a particularly interesting and fun question, as it recognizes the
difference between what most people accept and employ, for story purposes,
and what is canonically rock-solid.

My personal favorite in this category is our widespread use of the term
"fledgling" for a newly-come-across vampire, a term which, as I recall,
never appears on-screen in FK.  Rather, Nick uses the word "convert" up
front in first-season's "I Will Repay."  I'm not a fan of vampires other
than FK; Nick's immediate predecessor in the genre, for me, was Bunnicula,
and I read Stoker strictly for nineteenth-century lit.  So when I joined
the fandom, I picked up the use of "fledgling" without question.  Only much
later, after my Nth-generation IWR was finally replaced by a clear SciFi
Channel copy, did I hear the use of "convert."  I was dismayed -- and
inspired.  The nuances of "convert" are infinitely more powerful than those
of "fledgling," what with its implications of choice and the exercise of
free will.  And the difference between common use and canon has been
intriguing me ever since.

<<"Fatal Mistake" where Nick thinks he's drained Alexandra, and LC finds
"there's still life in" her and gives her his blood, <snip> would the new
vampire "re-born" in such a manner have 2 vampire masters <snip> and have
vampire "ties" to each of her "parents"?>>

Fanfic assumptions vary.  Most of the stories I've read posit that
Lacroix's revival of Alexandra supersedes and/or completes whatever Nick
started, leaving Nick with no "master" link to her whatsoever.  Lisa
McDavid's use of Lacroix and Alexandra in "Heart Within the Beast" comes to
mind.  Some post-"Last Knight" stories have extended this supposition to a
scenario in which Lacroix gives Natalie blood after Nick drains her, and is
therefore her sole "master."

A few other stories and discussions, however, have employed Alexandra as an
example with which to beat Nick for supposedly "poor vampire senses."  (And
if that's your goal, FM's great fodder!  As is the initially-unnoticed
vampire technician in UTV.)  This belief assumes that a vampire in
Alexandra's position does have convert-master links to both vampires
involved in her death, and that Nick's apparent ignorance of Alexandra's
survival, presence and motives in "Fatal Mistake" reveals a
"poorly-developed master-convert sense," a theory which is then usually
carried up to LK, where it justifies a reading in which Natalie has come
across, but Nick just doesn't realize it.  Alyce is frequently employed to
support this theory as well.

Within the context of FM, Nick seems to have no link to Alexandra besides a
guilty memory -- and, just perhaps, the "one always knows family" sense
which he would share with any other of Lacroix's get.  He chases her
because he *sees* her, not because he *senses* her, and, naturally enough,
he initially thinks her a ghost -- ghosts being canonical in FK, and Nick
being fairly comfortable with them (LA, DoN, Fran).  In refutation of the
"poor vampire senses" claim, I'd offer both generally many instances of
finely-honed skills, and specifically the successful conversions of
Elizabeth (IWR), Richard (IWR), Gerald (Fever) and Serena (B,B) -- the
first three died not because of any incapability in the vampirism Nick
passed on, but rather because they were *too* vampiric, and reveled in the
vampire in ways abhorrent to Nick's conscience.

In defense of the "Alexandra as Nick's get" argument, there's the fact that
she clearly blames him, not Lacroix, for her situation.  Still, Lacroix's
had almost six-hundred years to convince her of that, and his persuasive
powers are formidable.

In short, I believe fanfic consensus leans a bit toward "only Lacroix is
Alexandra's maker," while canon admittedly reserves room for both

<<And would the "ties" to one of these "parents" be equal or stronger
between the new "childe" and one or both of her "parents"?>>

Good one!  Controversial!

Given that FK has no consistent statement on the giving of blood from a
master vampire to a convert -- sometimes it happens (Lacroix and Nick,
Lacroix and Alexandra); sometimes it doesn't (Nick and Serena, Vachon and
Urs, Nick and Richard) -- fanfic has produced many theories about the whens
and whys of that exchange.  The four most prominent in my reading are:

1.  A blood exchange makes the bond stronger than it would otherwise be.
2.  A blood exchange strengthens the convert as a vampire, but doesn't
affect the bond in any way.
3.  A blood exchange is necessary only to transfer "mastership" in such
"half-way" cases.
4.  There's always a blood exchange, evidence be darned.

One intriguing and popular thread has always drawn out from Nick's comment
in IWR that he doesn't believe it has to be the way Janette describes, the
way it was with Lacroix, the "eternal bond" and so on.  His firm assertion
of disbelief, coupled with the fact that we have never seen him give his
blood to a fledgling (poor, dead Alyssa excepted), perhaps gave rise to the
theory that the blood equals the bond -- that without the blood exchange,
the master-convert bond is weak to non-existent.

If this supposition were paired with the situation of a convert linked to
both her drainer and one who gave her blood, we would get the conclusion
that the drainer has little to no link to the new fledgling, while the one
who gave blood has a strong to overwhelming link.

On the other hand, the theory that it's the draining which locks in
allegiance persists.  So many FK vampires come across without blood
exchanges, this position holds, that draining must be the primary and
enduring forger of the bond.

<<who do ya'll think finished bringing Alyce Hunter across>>

I think she came across all on her own.  Lacroix was dead, after all, as
far as the writers were concerned at that time, and yet they let Alyce
live, so a Lacroix-free interpretation should, theoretically, be built in.
Similarly, as Dona Angel points out, Nick's dialogue to Natalie at the end
of DKII identifies her with Lacroix as "the lucky ones" -- the dead.  He
can't have done it, unless we want a schizophrenic or lying Nick.  Besides
which, we have any number of vampires who came over without being given
blood (Mad Jack in BaBl may be the most striking example).  "Near Death"
suggests, through both Nick and Janette, that it is the *choice* which
effects the transition, not the blood.  Blood exchange seems so little
necessary for coming across that I posit Alexandra would eventually have
come over on her own as Nick's progeny, had Lacroix not interfered.

Indeed -- what if he interfered precisely to prevent that, to prevent Nick
from acquiring a convert at that time?

<<but I cannot tell if he does see Alyce up at the skylight in the museum's

I think he, like Schanke and Natalie, miss the sight.  If for no other
reason than it was dark inside, where Alyce was, and light outside under
the street-lamp, where they were.  This would make anyone inside the window
all but invisible to a casual onlooker.

Still, the fact that she's there, undead, on what is presumably just the
next night, hollows out one of those marvelous and infuriating gaps in FK
canon.  For Nick to think she's dead, as his dialogue suggests, her body
must still have been in the loft when the paramedics/firemen/police came,
yielding the same situation as at the end of "Hearts of Darkness" -- so
what did Nick think, after DKII as after HoD, when he heard, as he must
have, that the body "went missing"?  Or could he not have heard?

Thanks for the fun topic,

Amy R.


End of FORKNI-L Digest - 10 Mar 2000 to 11 Mar 2000 (#2000-71)

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