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Logfile LOG9606D Part 16

June 24-June 25, 1996

File: "FORKNI-L LOG9606D" Part 16

	TOPICS:
	Ger in a new series
	Games Vampires Play
	Need FKFIC-L Info
	website stuff
	Nick and Nat and Janette,
	The Fix & other stuff (slight AtA Spoiler)  (3)
	Holy water
	Good and Evil Discussion
	Dragon*Con '96.
	The hamsters are at it again...
	Follow the bouncing e-mail message...
	The Fix & other stuff
	Possible spoiler: Games Vampires Play
	Help, please  (2)
	Spoiler: Night in question
	LaCroix not pre-Christian
	Ger: Syracuse  (2)
	A message for Gerthering-goers
	love without sex, Nick & Nat
	Shore Leave
	10 points, or A Night In The Life of a Knightie
	Hamsters & Dragon Con

=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 00:58:35 -0400
From:         Allison Percy <percy91@w.......>
Subject:      Ger in a new series

I was just re-watching part of "Boys from Syracuse" today, and I've
definitely decided that whatever new series Ger might work in, he should
*definitely* wear a toga in it.  <bg>

For the Syracuse deprived, this is a musical (based on Shakespeare's
"Comedy of Errors") that Ger played in at Stratford some years ago.  It
involves togas and a fair amount of dancing around.  I have no idea what
actually happens in this play because I was too busy playing with the
freeze frame button on my remote control.  <g>  (I cannot say more, this
is a family list!)

And since I know someone is bound to ask, I seriously doubt that my copy
(provided by a generous friend!) would stand another round of dubbing.  At
some point it might be offered by the GWD Fan Club again; hopefully those
copies will be better!

ObFK:  Hey, Syndicon East people, am I remembering correctly when I say
that Nigel admitted it was his idea to show some leg in his toga scene in
AMPH?  ;^)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Allison Percy, Knightie & believer in togas   percy91@w.......
    __o     Pedal for Forever Knight!  Support the charity bike tour!
  _`\<,_    E-mail me to find out how to donate and/or join the ride.
 (*)/ (*)     http://assets.wharton.upenn.edu/~percy91/FKtour.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jun 1996 22:07:33 -0700
From:         Jerimi Paul <paul9454@u.......>
Subject:      Games Vampires Play

I want to play too!  Can I?  Can I?  I promise to not bite.  Much. ;)


Spoiler space if it's necessary- not sure.

*
  *
    *
      *
        *
          *
            *
              *

I got such a kick out of the way GWD said "clue".  My roommate laughed at
me because I kept getting a big goofy grin on my face evertime I heard
"klew."  :)

So how did Nick get out of the church, if the sun was up?  Did he really
have to spend the entire day in a church?  How uncomfortable.  My roommate
made a crack out of Nick giving a whole new meaning to the phrase "smoking
jacket."

Maybe Nick made a break for the caddy, and Tracy drove him home
in the trunk.  I wonder if the caddy's trunk could contain an exploding
vampire?  How would one explain that in the accident report?  "I don't
understand it, Captain.  I was just driving along when Nick suddenly
exploded."   "Well, Tracy, it's really not in our jurisdiction any more.
I've called the FBI about the incident, and Agents Mulder and Scully will
be taking over.  It's awful, what happened to the caddy, though."  ;)

-Jerimi--->paul9454@r.......
Some people feel the rain; others just get wet.
Vaquero, armed with a brush.  Look out!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 00:13:43 -0500
From:         Erin Friedman <efriedm1@m.......>
Subject:      Re: Need FKFIC-L Info

At 01:15 PM 6/24/96 EST, you wrote:
>     Hi again!
>
>     The server here at ECCS hiccuped and I lost ALL my Email from Thursday
>     June 20 - Sat June 22.  I am mostly interested in knowing what FK
>     fiction got posted on those dates so I can either get them from the
>     author or from PSUVM.  If anyone knows what got posted on those days
>     and can let me know so I can find what I'm missing, I'd REALLY
>     appreciate it!
>
I sent him this.
 ===========================================================================
===========
Erin Friedman
efriedm1@m.......
Nick & Nat Packer home page- http:home.sprynet.com/sprynet/soulseek
" In Love and Faith, There is Forever"
Save FK- http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR
If you want FK merchandise, contact Anne at TV_Showstuff@p......., and
let her know, NOW!!!
Or check out their web site at http://www.tvshowstuff.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 24 Jun 1996 22:23:09 -0700
From:         Rick Bleyle <papaya@i.......>
Subject:      website stuff

    Hey out there,
    I'm starting my first forever knight web site and I wanted to know what you
guys (and gals) want/think I should put in it. I have no pictures but a lot of
great links i need help on genral ideas!!! so far I have stuff about the war (the
groups and where to go) and the logo's for the groups. I have SOS stuff but no
pictures and I'm putting amys E-mail on there if I get it up in time while she's
still doing all that sony stuff. and... that's pretty much it so you see why I
need help!

                    Thanking you all in advance,
                        Kelley Bleyle

Kelley Bleyle
papaya@i.......
"You may envy mortality but, never aspire to it." LaCriox in Last Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 15:53:59 +1000
From:         Joanna Keenan <Joanna.Keenan@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Nick and Nat and Janette,

Margie Hammet wrote:

>OTOH, she left him after 97 years.  Perhaps that's because she really wasn't
>satisfied with what she was getting from him.  Perhaps she didn't even really
>know the source of her dissatisfaction.

I've just seen this episode. While in conversation with Schanke, who has
just left his wife, Jeanette says that she left Nick because she felt he was
smothering her, that she couldn't stand the intensity of his love, that she
wasn't used to it. She also says that she still loves him.

Even if she didn't know her reasons when she left, she certainly feels 'now'
that she knows what they were.

Please don't take this as me comming down on one side of the argument about who
Nick should be or is in love with. I just have a thing about accuracy.

Joanna
As pedantic as circumstances allow.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 01:57:30 -0400
From:         Ray Heuer <RayHeuer@a.......>
Subject:      Re: The Fix & other stuff (slight AtA Spoiler)

In a message dated 96-06-23 06:17:43 EDT, Ann Lipton writes:

<< Aack ... doesn't anyone agree with me that on FK, merely the state of
being a vampire means you're evil? >>

     Well, I think the problem is your supporting argument.  That is, the
fact that they are repelled by crosses.  Not all on the list are Christian,
and thus reject that argument out of hand.  Others (like myself) who are
Christian need more than a flat Cross-good/vampire-evil argument.

     We do have two arguments to draw from in the series (but I think, only
two).  In DoN, Alysse tells Nick that he cannot be with her, implying that
she is in Heaven, but Nick will be condemned to Hell.  I forget the details
of the other (it's been mentioned several times lately), but an angelic being
shows Nick his corrupt soul.

     I just thought of a third, which is at the end of AtA, where LaCroix
theorizes that Nick's attempts at redemption allowed him to overcome the
effects of Divia's attack.

     Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to support your claim
that all FK vampires are, by definition, evil, using only these three
examples to support your case.  You may freely make refer to Nick's (and
Janette's, and Vachon's and Urs') Christian upbringing causin them guilt, but
you may not apply it to LaCroix.  Divia's implied immunity to the cross may
be handled as you see fit.

  --  Ray
   Nat Vamp Camp

     Rage!  Rage!  Against the dying of the Knight!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 01:57:55 -0400
From:         Ray Heuer <RayHeuer@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Holy water

In a message dated 96-06-23 03:18:59 EDT, Mr. Happy wrote:

<<  I know that vampires in Forever Knight do not
 bear the sight of a cross, but what about holy water?  Has it ever been
 mentioned on the show?  What happens if a vampire gets in contact with holy
 water? >>

     I can only recall two eps where holy water played a part.  One was Sons
of Belial, where the priest sprinkles holy water on Nick as part of the
Exorcism.  It doesn't seem to affect Nick, but LaCroix flinches out of the
way.
     The other was the episode with the vampire victim who "survived" and
became a vampire hunter (Bad Blood?).  A priest "healed" him by sprinkling
holy water on the fang wounds.  It apparently left a permanent scar.

     Can anyone think of any others?

  --  Ray
   Nat Vamp Camp
    I got my FK CD!  I think I can use it to repel vampires!
     Rage!  Rage!  Against the dying of the Knight!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 16:04:18 +1000
From:         Joanna Keenan <Joanna.Keenan@a.......>
Subject:      Re: *Good and Evil Discussion*

J.S.Levin/Stormsinger wrote:

>The New American Webster Dictionary defines "murder" as: (n)"homicide with
>malice aforethought"; (v) "kill with premeditated malice"
>
>The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language defines "murder" as:
>"the unlawful killing of one human being by another, especially with malice

I __think__ that the people who compiled those dictionaries believe that
Homo sapiens is the only species of intelligent beings on earth. :-)

>A vampire killing solely for sustanance is -- as Nick is himself aware, in
>his actions in protecting the Community -- somewhat *outside* the legal
>definition of murder, both because of the argument that that vampire is
>*not* a human being (in the clinical and psychological sense) and that the

Do you think that if/when we ever come in contact with another intelligent
species we'll have to rewrite our laws to include them? Or maybe we should
just be able to kill them with impunity? :-)

Joanna
As pedantic as circumstances allow
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 02:09:46 -0400
From:         The Phoenix <jap8@c.......>
Subject:      Dragon*Con '96.

Guess what, boys and girls (and others in between), I was at Dragon*Con as
well.  I was a bit surprised at the FK stuff to be had (Yes, the CD was in
major demand).  There were also stills, and people who offered to buy my
FK hat for a LOT of cash (I declined), as well as the occasional item for
sale.  I don't think if FK actually made any of the panels, but in all, it
was a decent showing for FK (if not for the list's membership :).

If anyone who was there wanted to know, I was in the Pern room a lot, tho
I spent much of Friday in the hospital (passed out in the Peachtree
Centre, how ignominious, but it wasn't from booze.  Dunno why it happened,
but anyways, I'm better now, no panic [Mom screamed over the phone when I
told her, heh]).

I recommend that the next time listmembers go to a con, we plan a meeting
or something well ahead of schedule.  :}

Red.

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-
  The Tastiest Crayon, Her Royal Redness, Jaye the First, the Phoenix.
             jap8@c....... // http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/
                     Keeper of the Crayons, PMEB.
/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 01:40:33 -0500
From:         Carrie Krumtum <carriek@e.......>
Subject:      The hamsters are at it again...

The Psuvm hamsters appear to be taking a break again. I sent parts 13
& 14 of 'Breaking Dawn' out yesterday June 23. I sent parts 15 & 16 out
tonight June 24. I just got a note saying the part 15 has dropped but
parts 13 & 14 haven't.

My apologies. Earthlink appears to be having growing pains and my mail
server is majorly messed up. I haven't any idea what parts have dropped
or not. I have posted all of them throught part 16.

I did send 13 and 14 through again, if the server at PSUVM has processed
these the second posts will bounce back to me.

I hope everything comes through okay, my goal is to have the complete
story posted before I go to the Gerthering this weekend. Keep your
fingers crossed.

Cheers,
--
Carrie, Proud Knightie
The Nurse is a hampster
I finally had some sense knocked into me
and I have the bump to prove it!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 01:46:42 -0500
From:         Carrie Krumtum <carriek@e.......>
Subject:      Follow the bouncing e-mail message...

Okay guys,

Parts 13 and 14 of 'Breaking Dawn' just bounced back to me because they
have indeed been sent through the server at PSUVM. The hamsters may be a
bit slow, but they are on the job. These parts should drop for you all
shortly (well, within the next decade anyway), hang in there.

<addressing another label to send more feed to the hamsters, sprinkling
the feed with vitamins, including chocolate hamster treats>

:)=
--
Carrie, Proud Knightie
The Nurse is a hampster
I finally had some sense knocked into me
and I have the bump to prove it!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 04:13:23 -0400
From:         Melissa Puzio <miss68@p.......>
Subject:      Re: The Fix & other stuff

Jane wrote:

>Adult human beings may no longer be child human beings, but they are still
>members of homo sapiens.  IMNSHO, vampires are no longer physiologically
>homo sapien.  They are a separate species.  They are predators whose prey is
>human.

Aren't they considered Homo Superior?  I remember reading the X-men or
something of the Ilk a long time ago and the mutants are considered Homo
Superiors.  If you don't belong to the vampirism as magic thing, you could
say that they are also mutants.  Just a little something to think about?

And if I'm wrong, don't shoot me, I'm not a scientist :)

Cousin Mel
*NatVampCamp*Valentine*Chiante Drinking Member of the Thong Throng*
*High Priestess of Jagrism at Temple Nedved*
miss68@p......., Penchk68@a......., or CousinMel@p.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 00:35:01 -0800
From:         Muldy Sculler <ffbmh@a.......>
Subject:      Possible spoiler: Games Vampires Play

S       P       O       I       L       E       R

S       P       O       I       L       E       R

S       P       O       I       L       E       R

S       P       O       I       L       E       R

S       P       O       I       L       E       R

S       P       O       I       L       E       R

S       P       O       I       L       E       R

I hope I have created enough space to respect folks desire not to know.

Someone commented on the episode "Games Vampires Play".  The ending of
this episode has always bothered me.  Once again Nat is taking action,
i.e. tossing the headset into the fire.  Frankly, Nat ought to have
handed it back to Nick with the statement, "No, you do what you want with
it."  Nick has to be responsible sometime.
Alyx
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 05:32:24 -0000
From:         "anamchar@s......." <anamchar@s.......>
Subject:      Help, please

Could someone please send me the commands for setting to No Mail and also for
 resumption of mail. Thank you.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:06:27 -0400
From:         Ann Lipton <Iocaste@a.......>
Subject:      Re: The Fix & other stuff (slight AtA Spoiler)

In a message dated 96-06-23 06:17:43 EDT, Ann Lipton writes:

<< Aack ... doesn't anyone agree with me that on FK, merely the state of
being a vampire means you're evil? >>

     Well, I think the problem is your supporting argument.  That is, the
fact that they are repelled by crosses.  Not all on the list are Christian,
and thus reject that argument out of hand.  Others (like myself) who are
Christian need more than a flat Cross-good/vampire-evil argument.




You misunderstand -- I was arguing the crosses/evil thing in the context of
the show.  That is, my interpretation is that _on_ _the_ _show_ crosses are
indeed a symbol of goodness. In For I Have Sinned, Nat asks Nick why crosses
make him so uncomfortable.  Nick's response: "Because they are a symbol of
the one true light and we are creatures of darkness."  Now, anyone is free to
agree or not with that statement, but unless you want to interpret it as
Nick's guilt talking (which is not unreasonable) then it seems that in the FK
universe, crosses are indeed considered "good."

After all, why else would LaCroix, who lived his mortal life long before
Christ, be repelled by them?

And then there are episodes like SoB, where even if bad people wield crosses
for bad purposes, they _still_ repel vampires, which to me at least weakens
the "it's only their guilt" argument.

Now here's a question:  (AtA spoilers to follow)

Am I supposed
to put in spoiler lines
mid-post?  Oy, I
really need some
instructions on
spoiler etiquette
for this group.


Divia:  She lived and was shut up in a tomb also before Christ was born, and
then upon her release headed straight for LaCroix.  Would she be repelled by
crosses?



Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 08:00:48 EDT
From:         Lisa McDavid <D020214@v.......>
Subject:      Spoiler: Night in question

I can't remember whether or not this one is spoiler-protected, so I'm
erring on the side of caution.

Now, then. Actually, Alyssa in Night in Question didn't say that Nick
would be condemned to hell. She didn't even say he'd never be in heaven.
She just said that because of what he had been and done, he'd never be
where she was.

Since she was Alyssa von Linz, which is in Austria, and the ceremony
was performed by a bishop, she's a Catholic of no later than the 16th
c. So, she has a belief system that contains a number of levels of
hell, purgatory and heaven. You know the expression "in seventh heaven"?
The elaborate cosmology with the many levels is where it comes from.

The 16th century reference is based on the costumes.

Alyssa is simply saying that Nick won't reach her level, not that he
can't enter heaven or will go to hell.

There's always the possibility that Alyssa is wrong. She was certainly
mistaken when she told Nick he would die that night.

Although personally I think the ghosts were meant to be taken as
"real," there's also another interpretation, which is that Alyssa
was a figment of Nick's imagination, telling him what he would have
expected to hear from her ghost.

Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble."
Chief Watcher for Cats, McGregor
Lisa McDavid
mcdavid-lisa@s.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 09:12:16 -0400
From:         Luz Funtowicz <funtowic@p.......>
Subject:      Re: The Fix & other stuff (slight AtA Spoiler)

><< Aack ... doesn't anyone agree with me that on FK, merely the state of
>being a vampire means you're evil? >>
>
>     Well, I think the problem is your supporting argument.  That is, the
>fact that they are repelled by crosses.  Not all on the list are Christian,
>and thus reject that argument out of hand.  Others (like myself) who are
>Christian need more than a flat Cross-good/vampire-evil argument.
>
cut
>     Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to support your claim
>that all FK vampires are, by definition, evil, using only these three
>examples to support your case.  You may freely make refer to Nick's (and
>Janette's, and Vachon's and Urs') Christian upbringing causin them guilt, but
>you may not apply it to LaCroix.  Divia's implied immunity to the cross may
>be handled as you see fit.
>
This isn't an argument for all vampires being evil because of what they
are, I don't believe that, but in one episode (maybe the asteroid one?)
Nick enters a house and sees a menorah, he stares at it for several
moments, before moving away.  I've seen him give the same look to crosses
(the ones that he doesn't touch) and I took it to mean that the menorah,
and other religious symbols, would also burn him if he touched them.  Since
Nick isn't Jewish, that suggested to me that it wasn't a psychosomatic
thing, or he wouldn't have been hurt by anything but Christian symbols.  I
know this is all supposition, as he didn't actually touch the menorah, but
did anyone else notice this scene and take it the same way?
Luciana
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:04:10 EDT
From:         Lisa McDavid <D020214@v.......>
Subject:      LaCroix not pre-Christian

Minor AtA spoiler at end.

Ahm, actually, Lacroix and Divia *didn't* live before Christ. Divia was
brought over shortly before the erruption of Vesuvius which buried Pompeii
in 79 c.e. (aka A.D.) That's in the usual modern system, which counts
from a year one which was supposedly the year in which Christ was born.
(Supposedly because we know now that the calculation was out by about
seven years.) Lacroix was brought over during the erruption.

I can't imagine either Lacroix or Divia as a Christian. Anyway,
this was during the Early Persecution period, but -- the archaeological
evidence suggests that there were Christians in Pompeii at the time
of the erruption. Of course they were already established in Rome.
If you interpret FK's use of crosses as indicating some kind of inherent
power in the symbol because of its Christian meaning, Lacroix and Divia
*were* mortal in a period when they could have encountered this usage.

The problem with this is that the earliest Christian iconography
doesn't use the cross as a symbol. The fish (the Greek word for "fish"
happens to make an acronym for the Greek phrase "Jesus Christ, Son
of God") was the most common emblem. As far as I know, FK has never
depicted Lacroix as being repelled by a fish, although this does have
possibilities for the next war and Spike the Goldfish. <g>

My guess as to why the cross works on Lacroix is that he's had
centuries since Christianity adopted the cross as an emblem (after
it had ceased to be a means of execution) to be conditioned like
Pavlov's Dog. <evil grin> After centuries of being repelled by
crosses because the Christians who had them *believed* they would
work, he's probably responding reflexively.

I can't remember Divia and a cross in AtA. My copy is out on
loan so I can't check. If she was repelled by one, she might have
picked up the reaction telepathically from Lacroix. It's also possible
that since her master had lived into the Christian period, he had
been conditioned to crosses and passed it on. Divia killed him
some time between 79 c.e. and 20 years later when she told Lacroix
what she had done.

Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble."
Chief Watcher for Cats, McGregor
Lisa McDavid
mcdavid-lisa@s.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:34:00 PT
From:         Tami Lafrank <tamilyn.lafrank@a.......>
Subject:      Ger: Syracuse

So, what does he wear under his toga Allison. Looked like bloomers
to me. <vbg> The copy from the Fan Club isn't much clearer and has
definate color problems (no, I cannot dub it, so don't ask).
He has great knees though.

Tami LaFrank                      : TCL58@a....... or TCL20@a.......
Ravenette, IB, MBDtK, McGregor (I am *NOT* a Bunny.),
  Mai Tai Mistress, BFP-QB        : Owner: Sacred Raven Health Spa
                                  : "Come in, relax. We're dying
Never play leapfrog with Unicorns :   to prolong your life"
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:50:31 +0000
From:         Karen Tobin <ktobin@t.......>
Subject:      A message for Gerthering-goers

Hi,

I'm not sure when you are all planning on leaving (I know Jamie's
already left...) so I wanted to get this out before I missed a lot of
you!

I just wanted to wish everyone who's going a safe trip and a
wonderful time! I wish I could be with you, but since that's not to
be, I hope you all have an extra-great time on my behalf!!

And, of course, I'm eagerly looking forward to the stories you'll
be bringing back!

Take care!


Karen, Knightie/Heartbreaker (ktobin@t.......,
 http://www.tiac.net/users/ktobin/fk.html)
Reference Librarian, Save Forever Knight Campaign/Almighty Address Goddess
Save Forever Knight! For more info, e-mail me and/or visit:
 http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 11:01:53 -0400
From:         Allison Percy <percy91@w.......>
Subject:      Re: Help, please

"anamchar@s......." <anamchar@s.......> said:

> Could someone please send me the commands for setting to No Mail and also for
>  resumption of mail. Thank you.

The Official Word on how to do stuff like this is at the FK Mailing List
web site.  The URL for which I have memorized since I wrote several
(bad) poems about it.  <g>

  http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/FK/FK.html

If anything in there seems cryptic, you can also try a little page I put
together based on some stuff I wrote during my brief stint as List
Babysitter.  Maybe the wording on this page will make a few things more
clear:

  http://assets.wharton.upenn.edu/~percy91/fklists

I haven't written a poem about that URL yet, and the very idea makes me
shudder.  ;^)

Webless people, when I'm around I'll be glad to e-mail you these
instructions.  But I'll be out from about Wednesday night through Tuesday
morning because of a get-together with a bunch of my buddies.  Oh, yeah,
and there will be some guy named Ger there, too, I hear.  ;^)

(Anyone want to send embarrassing questions for Ger?  I'm making a
collection.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Allison Percy, Knightie etc.                 percy91@w.......
    __o     Pedal for Forever Knight!  Support the charity bike tour!
  _`\<,_    E-mail me to find out how to donate and/or join the ride.
 (*)/ (*)     http://assets.wharton.upenn.edu/~percy91/FKtour.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 08:16:02 +0000
From:         Lisa <redjasper@e.......>
Subject:      Re: love without sex, Nick & Nat

Toni Holm asked (sorry for paraphrasing--I'm really quite bad at
hitting detete when I don't mean to...) if Nick&NatPackers could be
satisfied with a romantic relationship without sex.

My answer to that is yes, many people do "without" for many, many
reasons, and so, I like to thin, could I, but it would be difficult. And
it wouldn't be my first choice, by a long shot!  ;)  But if I found the
one person that I loved more than I ever loved anyone else, and they
were unable to function in that capacity, I like to think that our
love could overcome physical limitations.  There's more than one
way to make love, obviously!  ;)  And that's a part, in my book, of
taking someone for better or for worse. So maybe you'll say I'm a
hopeless romantic, but I don't think so. I think it takes a rare
amount of courage, strength, and love to overcome such a major
roadblock in a relationship, and I have nothing but the highest
admiration for those couples who do overcome it.

Are Nick and Natalie true loves? Maybe, based on what we've seen
on-screen. Maybe not, as well. I can and have been convinced to see
it either way, although N&N are my own personal preference. For
the record, I have always liked the Nick and Janette relationship,
as well, in both the past and present, and although I do want to see
Nick and Natalie overcome their problems together, during third
season I missed the tension that Janette brought to the show. She
really is essential to FK, and to Nick, both in the past and present.
Not in the same way that Natalie is, of course, but they are both
equally important to him for different reasons.

I'd like to add an apology for pushing anyone's hot bottons by asking
what draws you to Nick as a sympathetic character if you don't
necessarily think he wants/should get mortality, if he doesn't love
Nat, etc. It was an honest question, or so I thought. I didn't expect
anyone to convince me one way or the other, I'm just curious. Got
one really cool response via private mail, which has given me
better insight into that POV, which I appreciate. I'm not a debater,
which is why I usually steer very clear of these discussions, but I
figured that now was a good time to ask something I'd always
wondered about. I always thought it was a good thing to want to
understand where someone else is coming from.

I'll end my rambling by asking that everybody pick up a virtual nerf
bat and bop the person to their left. Then bop the person to their
right. Keep bopping until everyone realizes just how silly we look,
and then we'll collapse in a giggly, embarrassed dogpile and go back
to having fun.  :)

The show *is* ambiguous, which is part of what makes it so very
cool. And I like a world where there is no One Correct Answer. But I
still think it's an OK thing to ask people why they see things the
way they do. Hope folks agree with me on that!


Lisa W. * redjasper@e.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 11:13:43 -0400
From:         Allison Percy <percy91@w.......>
Subject:      Re: Ger: Syracuse

Tami Lafrank said:
>
> So, what does he wear under his toga Allison. Looked like bloomers
> to me. <vbg>

<jotting this down on the list of embarrassing questions...>

Tami, let's just say that I spent a lot of time studying this issue. <g>

:^)
Allison
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 11:38:02 EDT
From:         Lynne Levine <llevine@m.......>
Subject:      Shore Leave

Speaking of cons...I'm planning to be at "Shore Leave" (Trek con near
Baltimore) in July.  Anyone else?

Please contact me off list.  It would be nice to have some kind of
FK presence there (a room party perhaps, if someone can host?)

Lynne Levine
llevine@m.......
Ravenette/Immortal Beloved (who loves ALL the characters in FK!)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 11:55:26 -0400
From:         Ekaterina Baliasinskaya <ebaliasi@l.......>
Subject:      10 points, or A Night In The Life of a Knightie

I think I am finlally getting there... You know that something is
terribly wrong when weird things start to happen.. In other words, you
know you've gone Forever Nuts when...
1. .. they offer you a 10 hour night shift and you take it JUST TO KNOW
HOW it feels like
2 .. you start working and realise this is what you've dreamed about all
your life
3. .. at 3 o'clock in the morning you pass some newspaper rack and
suddenly realise that you are staring point blank at the name "Vachon"
written in blood-red across the cover of some ragged example of japanese
comics art
4 .. it takes you couple of minutes to realise that it reads
"Vacation"("Vaqetion" ?? blink..blink..), and that you've been
hallucinating over the same thing for the past two weeks on the regular
basis
5.. on the way home you pop into a grocery store, and under some ironic
impulse pick up a box of REAL oatmeal (no matter that you hate it, you
never eat it, and the only reminder of it can cause permanent damage to
your nervous system)
6.. the only excuse your clouded mind can think about is "Daddy likes
it". Don't mind that you haven't been living with your dad since high
school, and that now he loves something so healthy and cholesterol-free
that you can't even spell it.
7. .. you come home, slip into your room where all windows are tightly
covered with black paper (after your tore off your at least 100 years old
blinders in a desperate attempt to re-adjust them), only to find a note
on the door. The note reads: " Natalie called at 5:30. Urgent. Call back"
8. .. trying to remember a)who the hell is Natalie; b) why she calls you
at dawn; c) what was the terryfying nature of emergency that she forgot
to leave her number (am I supposed to know it???..)
9.. go to sleep without solving the mystery. You still feel though that
something is very .. very.. wrong . Only somewhere in a Dream Valley you
finally recall that Natalie is in fact full name of your excentic kid
sister, and "emergency" were probably your old jackboots you promised her
long time ago
10.. you wake up with a terryfied cry that wakes up the whole building;
you look at the clock: it's 10 pm. It's time to go to work again...

This all really happened... This keeps happening..
Has someone been through similar experiences, or am I the only case of
mild insanity??...
p.s. sorry for the occupied space - had to get this off my chest! uff..
Katya
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 1996 12:34:40 EST
From:         Ronni Katz <ronnik@c.......>
Subject:      Hamsters & Dragon Con

     Hi all!

     The ECCS hamsters are back on track <vbg>.

     Thanks to ALL of you great people who offered to send me what I lost.
     YOu never know how many nice people there are on the List until you
     have a problem and call for help :)

     Another DragonCon note: Found out what went wrong with my robot.  The
     speed controller shorted out and fried itself (gosh, what an
     incredible smell I discovered!)  and has to be replaced.  Also have to
     redo the drive train because the traction kinda sucked.  Have a
     preliminary redesign and it looks pretty cool. The housing (exterior)
     will be clear highly resiliant plastic that allows you to see into the
     innards of the machine. Inside will still be that heavy duty steel
     body that made Spike's body nearly indestructible!

     Spike Jr. (yeah, he's littler than the original, hence the name
     chance!)  will be at Robot Wars in San Francisco in August.  Anyone
     interested in info on that can Email me off-list

     OBFK: Sony has NO CLUE!  There was, for a non-media Con, A LOT of FK
     merchandise at Dragon Con, more than I expected to find.  The folks
     selling the CD ran out of stock by Sunday and they claimed they
     brought LOTS of copies!  Just goes to show that Hollywood execs have
     no clue about what's going on in the real world....

     Ron the Enforcer
     Die-Hard and Robot Warrior (featherweight division)
=========================================================================

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Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/