File: "FORKNI-L LOG9606C" Part 17 TOPICS: LIST STUFF: Help When Needed Blood (2) Spolers: Blackwing FK Merchandise/Newsgroups Cousin War Enlistment still open Blackwing, etc. Blackwing mystery fan club address Nick & Nat Fantasy FK That "Nature of Morality" Thing Quest vs. Solution Ger's Outer Limits Ep SOSFK: The Page... this is IMPORTANT!!! really! More Nick and Redemption good Nat eps Off Topic...sort of (The Lisa Thang) Killing, etc.: Sandra's post Blackwing script Nick's adjustment as a vampire Killing - sipping - choices Puns! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:26:17 -0700 From: [Name removed by request] Subject: Re: LIST STUFF: Help When Needed > Don Fasig, List Janitor i'm sorry but i have a problem with this. No offense to janitors, who are so valuable to society, but Donnie is not a janitor. Nor is he: > More like Hercules charged with cleaning the Augean stables (his words. Well, actually Donnie as Hercules ain't a bad comparision). But i must insist, however much trouble may be stirred, however annoying i may become, that our Donnie does not run after us, picking up trash, sweeping up messes. He is, rather, List Gardener, Full of Grace (any list owner/maintainer is divine, no exception. They have to be, to keep this thing running properly. Only Gods can keep those hamsters alive), Tender of forkni-l and fkfic-l, weeding out the harmful, bothersome accounts, working magic upon the sickly ones. Let's bat some sense into The Divine List Shepherd and Horticulturist. <bat, bat> :) [Name removed by request] All I have is what I might have been - Gavin Friday How can you trust someone who bleeds for 7 days and doesn't die? -BGW ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:46:08 PST From: June Russell <Kat@g.......> Subject: Re: Blood Cousin Lisa asked: :Does anyone -- Kat? -- know if the pressure in the neck is different? The actual pressure between the carotid in the neck and the femoral in the thigh would be approximately the same. The difference is in flow. With increasing cross-sectional diameter of the vessel, pressure remaining the same, you get a proportional increase in the flow. So for a smaller vessel, such as the carotid the flow is less than in the femoral. Now if you make a tiny hole, either way you'll get the same amount. However, the shear factor may enlarge the hole, making the flow rate out of the vessel greater. But if the hole remains the same size, it won't make that much difference with which you poke holes. In terms of hole poking I have seen: when we do an arterial stick for blood gases the femoral stick fills up a little faster than the radial stick, but not that much different. We don't like doing femoral sticks, though because it's harder to stop the bleeding afterwards (harder to push at the appropriate spot) and if there is a clot where you did it, you might lose a leg with the femoral but there is collateral circulation with the radial artery (from back flow with the ulnar). I don't have the more detailed books here at home to tell you actual pressures (besides which, I'm not a cardiologist, so I don't deal with that very often. Even my books at the office might not have it.) Well, that was certainly more than *I* would normally want to know. Kat Kat ( June Russell ) pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g....... Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 11:56:17 -0600 From: "Elena Villafuerte H." <evilla@u.......> Subject: Re: Spolers: Blackwing On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Judith Freudenthal wrote: > Dottie, I do have to agree with your post disagreeing with mine. > > <<I think the fact that he didn't immediately say "Look, I'm mortal...let's > hit the bed" speaks volumes for the way he feels about Nat. It goes deeper > than just the physical, he wanted to share the sun (which means the world to > him) with here more than just sharing his body>> > > Why didn't they do it in the Fix? I suppose the answer was that he was > waiting to do it properly and was overwhelmed by the fact that he could go > out in the sun. He did express his joy to Nat when he first when out into > the sun (right after her treatment). > Excuse me... I *have* to say something. I agree that perhaps Nick's feelings for Nat go deeper than just the physical thing. However, it's not like they have all the time in the world to do things properly, is it? I mean, if Nat has been longing for Nick and viceversa for ages, and then he gets to have a chance to "hit the bed" with her (I looove the expression), but doesn't do it because he's waiting to do it properly (candles and dinner and wine and all), then what always happens is he reverts to the vampire condition and can't do it anymore. So, we've seen Nick make love to Marian and I don't really know how many others (if there have been others, I've only had a chance to see FK after they aired BB SNIFFF!!!) but never to Nat . OK, OK, so maybe he's cured and not a vampire anymore. OK, let's take a walk in the sun and se the flowers and have champagne and chocolate cake. BUT just in case, if I was Nat, I'd get him into bed first and ask the questions later! But then, maybe I'm just a little less spiritual than what love with a vampire requires :) Elena. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:35:06 +6 From: Don Fasig <phase3@g.......> Subject: Re: FK Merchandise/Newsgroups > Also has someone posted Tippi's letter to the newgroup??/ I would if I > knew how. Done. Don Fasig ---,-<@ phase3@g....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:34:00 EDT From: Lisa McDavid <D020214@v.......> Subject: Cousin War Enlistment still open For some strange reason, which may be entirely chance, I've been having mailer problems recently. If you sent me private email asking to be on the Cousins Loop and stating your intention to particpate as a Cousin in the upcoming war, and have *not* received an acknowledgement or a post from the Loop, please write to me again. Enlistment is still open for Cousins who wish to participate. Note that you join a faction by declaring yourself a member, so if you're new and you think you'd like to support LaCroix in the war, welcome to the right side. If you've been here and have come to your senses, welcome to the right side. <evil grin> Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble." Chief Watcher for Cats, McGregor Lisa McDavid mcdavid-lisa@s....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 11:52:52 -0700 From: Valery King <kingv@u.......> Subject: Re: *Blackwing, etc.* On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, esalmas wrote: > >However, Ger does *just fine* portraying passion while clothed though. > > And then some -- he could give lessons to most actors. Where can I sign up for these master classes???? --Valery kingv@u....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 15:17:43 E From: Debra Ann Fiorini <fiorini@m.......> Subject: Re: Blackwing Katrinka said: >oh btw. i think nat and nick did have sex during the fix. that would >explain why she got so upset when he went back to his vampire ways. I don't think so. When did they find the time?? He was taking her to her apt., then she decided to go back to work instead (talk about dedicated, after spending the night at work, she goes back to spend the day there too), and he goes off to investigate the case he wasn't supposed to be working on. They never made it to Nat's place, and when Nick went home, he entered alone and found LC there. Later, he was missing and when Nat caught up with him, he was back to being a vampire. Also, I don't remember her as being upset he went back to being a vampire. When he showed her his fangs at the end (that sounds strange <g>), she smiled at him with relief. She *was* upset when she thought he was turning into a junkie. Debra Ann Dark Knightie * N&NPacker HeLLLion Guenvier@a....... or fiorini@a....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 13:00:03 -0700 From: Valery King <kingv@u.......> Subject: mystery fan club address In OnSat, my satellite tv guide, there was a question in the "Polly's TV Chatter" column: Q. Last night I saw what I assume to be the last show of "Forever Knight." Please say it isn't so. How long has it been in production and where may I write to the talented cast? --Joan Bear, Ashland, OR A. "Forever Knight" was first telecast on May 7, 1992 on CBS during the 1992-93 season and was rerun the following year. It then moved to syndication with new episodes. Rumor has it that the series will be out of production, though you may see reruns in syndication. For further information write to: "Forever Knight" Fan Club, P.O. Box 7487, Burbank, CA. 91510. The word of the cancellation is finally trickling out to the internet-deprived, which is good, but, well, gang, now *I* have a question: does anyone recognize this Burbank address????? The FKFC is located in Boston, not Burbank; Deb's and Nigel's fan clubs are in California, but in the northern not the southern part. So where did this P.O. box come from? Is this some "shadow" corporate organization I don't know about? I'm thinking of writing to this address and see what happens; in the meantime, any information would be appreciated. Valery kingv@u....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 13:50:06 -0700 From: Amy R. <akr@n.......> Subject: Nick & Nat From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......> >But falling in love _is_ a process. It's hard to pinpoint when it starts, >and it never has to end. Oooh, I'm sorry, I'm getting sooo romantic! My premise, which recently took two installments on fkspoilr, is that Nick was never actually "in love" with Natalie, though he was *falling* "in love" with her through third season. >Ob unromantic question - What is N&Nerism? "N&Nerism" is my abbreviation for "Nick&Natpackerism." :-) Judy: >Why didn't they do it in the Fix? I suppose the answer was that he was >waiting to do it properly and.... There are better explanations. One of which is the above, that Nick was not in love with Nat at the time of The Fix. As the IBs would no doubt point out, Janette is the one he runs to with news of his cure. Another explanation, however, is that The Fix immediately follows BMV, in which LC reminds Nick that he will kill any mortal woman Nick truly loves. Nick has many faults, but gratuitously exposing Natalie to mortal danger is not one of them. Further, as BMV just occurred, Nick would still believe he'd managed to successfully wipe Nat's memories of that night and their encounter -- in other words, following BMV, whatever Nick's own feelings, he would think that Nat had no basis from which to consider a romantic relationship with him. *** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) *** (Keeper of the Light Cousin FAQ: email me for a copy.) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 13:53:27 -0700 From: Amy R. <akr@n.......> Subject: Fantasy FK Sandra: >>That doesn't mean they aren't subject to physical laws. >Why not? What "physical laws" is a magician in a fantasy story using? Well, that depends on which fantasy story you're reading! :-) Sometimes it is a grant of power from the gods; sometimes it is the force of the individual's will; sometimes it involves calling upon spirits; sometimes it is a family trait, inherited from a supernatural ancestor, granted by gods, or resembling scientific psychic abilities. Piers Anthony's Phaze was as much science fiction as his Proton, but changing the fundamental physical laws of the fantasy world has served many authors. Changing those laws does not mean discarding the necessity for laws. What I think was being said about FK was that its fantastic interpretation has as much (or as little) continuity as its scientific one. If we interpret the vampire's aversion to holy objects as Nick did in FIHS ("We are creatures of the Darkness, and they represent the One, True Light") instead of using the sci-fi "projected-psychic energy of faith" interpretation, then we have established a rule of FK, which must remain consistent throughout the interpretation. For example, if someone worshipped evil, then, under the sci-fi interpretation, their "holy" objects would still repulse vampires through the projected energy of faith. Under the fantasy interpretation, the object would not repulse a vampire, because it represents the wrong pole of the metaphysical standard. *** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) *** Knightie * Light Cousin * Fleur-Booster * (Im)Mortal Beloved ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:07:18 -0700 From: Amy R. <akr@n.......> Subject: That "Nature of Morality" Thing >From: Marcia Tucker <ScFiMarci@a.......> >Subject: Rational Dark Knighties/Cousins! <a Bright and Shiny Knightie waves at a Dark one> Hi, Marcia! :-) >Let me just begin by saying that Cousins and Dark Knighties are rational in >our own delightful way - mainly from the vampire's perspective, for after >all, Nick and LaCroix are vampires and not "subject to mortal mores." Golly, it's been what -- a month? -- since the last time this argument occurred on list? :-) Let me identify it for what it is then: The Return of the "Nature of Good and Evil" Discussion! When last we met, I was pushing hard for Absolute Morality, and Lisa Prince, Marcia, Laurie and others thought I was stark, raving mad. :-) The argument that there is a "vampire's perspective," and that this perspective naturally differs from that of other sentient beings, is one of rampant cultural relativism. I see no real difference between it and the silly idea that there is a proper "woman's persepective" or "Black perspective" or "Canadian perspective" or "adolescent perspective." "But all of those perspectives are human," you are probably thinking. So? I'm arguing on two fronts here, and the first one is that Nick's perspective is as validly "vampiric" as LC's. The second front is where Janette refers to "mortal mores." She then, and LC usually, believe they are indeed unfettered by mortal morality. Nick (and I) however, believe that there is only one morality, and it applies to all thinking beings. Murder is simply wrong. LC can't excuse what he did in "Cherry Blossoms" by saying that he's a vampire. It was murder, and it was wrong. Torture is simply wrong. LC can't excuse what he did (so I'm told) in "Dead Air" by saying he's a vampire. It was torture, and it was wrong. Evil is evil, and being a vampire doesn't excuse you for its commission. Some things are, or ought to be, engraved on the souls of all -- and vampires lose neither their human soul nor their human conscience when they come across (though an interesting C&C discussion could be inserted here.) >I see the only obstacles to redemption for a vampire to be <snip> 2) >excesses as a vampire, and the Enforcers would take care of one first. The Enforcers are only interested in things that threaten the secret of the Community, as far as I know. Spilling the beans about vampirism is not a mortal sin to anyone but the Enforcers. >vampirism is not accepting oneself as a murderer, because a vampire normally >doesn't see themselves in that way, i.e. according to mortal standards. Not >the same species, IMO, can't compare. Again, I'm apparently the only one who thinks this, but vampires *were* human, and in fact still have human souls. They depend on human society to make thier existence palatable (AMPH) with art, laughter, music, and enthusiasm. They procreate through humans. They form relationships with humans. They are not a separate species, and even if they were, the same universal morality still binds them. >vampire and not kill. Can he do this? He *is* doing this, but he >desperately needs to drop the angst and guilt and accept what he is. No! He needs to struggle against what he is with every fiber of his being! :-) (I've taken to calling this point of a discussion "Knightie/Cousin deadlock," but I suppose, "Amy's being really stubborn again" would be as, if not more, accurate. <g>) That said, I enjoyed Marcia's very Dark Knightie-ish "Transitions: For IBs and Valentines," and if anyone missed it, I do happen to still have it right in my mailbox as a single HUMUNGEOUS text file, instead of the forty individual parts. If you want it like that, and your mailer can handle it, I'll be happy to share. :-) *** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) *** Knightie * Light Cousin * Fleur-Booster * (Im)Mortal Beloved ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:12:01 -0700 From: Alora <alora@a.......> Subject: Quest vs. Solution Sharon wrote: >In many ways I think Nick would rather have his quest than a solution. I'm a little behind on my digests, so excuse me if this has already been hashed out... I think Sharon hit the nail on the head. This is remarkabley like something I was discussing with someone else recently. I think if Nick actually ever found a cure, he'd be SOL. He has made this grand quest the center of his existance for so long, that if it was suddenly removed, he'd have nothing left. It's become, for better or worse (which is debateable, of course) the defining characteristic of his life. Without it he would be directionless. And he, as far as we have seen, has *nothing* in his life that carries even a fraction of the same importance to him as his search for a cure. Trying to find one gives him a goal and point to his life; without that quest, he has neither. Alora: Natpacker & Co-Listowner SKL.....<alora@a.......> For info about SKL see: http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~mjack/SKL/ "I am surrounded by freaks. So why is it I feel so at home?"--Remington Steele ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:43:38 -0000 From: Nancy Taylor <taylorln@o.......> Subject: Ger's Outer Limits Ep Hi everyone! Well, after two tries, I finally have a very good copy of Ger's Outer Limits episode, "Paradise". I may be sticking my neck out here, but I'd be willing to make copies for the Showtime deprived listmembers out there. Please e-mail me privately and we can work out the details. Nancy <TaylorLN@o.......> Knightie awaiting the war... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 21:55:36 GMT From: "Jamie M.R." <immajer@n.......> Subject: SOSFK: The Page... ...is being revised, in a major way. I figure, I oughta be cleaning out the site & uploading the new version either tonight or tomorrow, depending on when & whether I sleep. (I was up all night working on the puppy. Made me nostalgic for the good ol' days. <g>) I have been a lazy and slothful Webgoddess of late, and the SOSFK page has languished without update since April. A thousand apologies... but hey, I've been tired. That first frenzy back in January wore me out but good... and then, last night, all of a sudden, I felt this incredible driving *need* to start tinkering with the page again. It's actually been going amazingly smoothly, even that form-thingie I've been tinkering with; so all the people who've been listening to me talk about updating the page without ever actually seeing any results should be pleasantly surprised. :-) Truly. The thing is like ninety percent done. ;-) ;-) If you've got links to any *internal* parts of the Save FK page (e.g. any part of the page except for the main URL at http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html) they WILL become inactive once the new page goes up. Just so's you know. The new version will contain information on the most recent SOSFK stuff. It'll also probably leave out a lot, because I have a memory like a sieve; when the time comes, I'll be asking y'all to visit the site and point out anything I've missed. <g> But the new design ought to be a lot more streamlined and easier to navigate than the current site, which has become hopelessly tangled up in its own crosslinks due to the feverish period of expansion back at the beginning of the year... I'm also honing down the graphics to the barest minimum, yet striving for a cleaner & more professional overall design, as well as a sense of uniformity on the whole site. I'm also going to be locating the main page at the URL <http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR>. THE OLD URL WILL STILL BE ACTIVE on a permanent basis, as a pointer to the new location; but this will allow us to publicize the shorter URL to the SOSFK page without having to go crazy dealing with that whole looooooong URL... (Rule One for all prospective webmasters: Make sure the page's URL is as SHORT as possible! If only I'd known that back in December... <g>) And wherever possible, I'm linking to external sites, so that people organizing various efforts can keep their pages updated independently of me & my oddball schedule. :-) So. There ya go. I'll letcha all know when it's up. In the meantime, if you've got suggestions, holler... catch me before tonight & I'll get 'em into the next revision... -- Jamie M.R. <immajer@p.......> Listmommy, Illustrated Webgoddess & Keeper of Warm Fuzzies "Standing on the hill near my mountain of dreams, telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems..." The Truth Is Out There. 2,520 Miles Ahead. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 17:02:25 -0500 From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......> Subject: Re: this is IMPORTANT!!! really! Kartaan wrote: >Wow... Blessed by the Wicked... Ironic, tho, isn't it? ;) >Uh, I *would* like to apologize to any AOLers out there... Tonight I went on >a pasting spree, and posted Tippi's message on all the FK-AOL boards I could >find... Well, not *all* of them... I left the 'Spoilers' un-spoiled! I hope you don't get in trouble for spamming! If anyone says they don't like spam, tell them to try it with crackers and cheese. Pfft! ;) Thanks to all for putting the word out about TV Show Stuff and FK merchandise. Does anyone have the email address for the guy at Crescendo? ****Wicked Cousin Tippi**** HEY! Want FK stuff? Sony needs to know that you want it! Contact Anne at TV_ShowStuff@p....... and TELL her NOW! :) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:58:00 -0700 From: Alora <alora@a.......> Subject: Re: More Nick and Redemption Sharon wrote: >> exactly been diligent where Nat's concerned, and judging form his past >> <snip> jade cups, abarats, shock treatments where he just has to lie there >> chained to a table getting zapped, injections, spirit walks. And then my good friend Amy, with whom I rarely agree <g> but I adore all the same, added: >I would like to point out that only two of those "fixes," as you consider >them, postdate his involvement with Nat. Amy, I didn't interpret Sharon's comment the same way as you did. While I agree with Sharon that Nick hasn't exatcly been diligent in *working* for a cure (but you already know what I think about that), I thought she was demonstrating a much bigger trend in Nick's life. One that goes far beyond the past six years in Toronto. Whether or not those attempts pre- or post-date Natalie is really not important; the point is, that Nick jumps at cures that someone can give him, and shows no follow-through when it comes to cures that require his work. >> the fact that he works much harder at atonement and redemption, and that >> he's willing to give up mortality for what he thinks will be redemption >> ("Near Death") is very telling as to what Nick really wants. >Yes, it is, isn't it? ;-) I absolutely love that fact. Nick wants >mortality, but he wants redemption more. Yes, he does. I had a religion teacher in high school, who tried to explain one of the primary differencs between Western Religion and Eastern Religion (mostly Christianity): Eastern tends to focus on the mystic, the unknown, the mysteries of the universe. While western is more practiacally driven: sort of a "tell me what I have to do to get into Heaven" approach (a direct quote from a nun--so nobody shoot the messanger). And while I would say that that is a little over simplified, I can also say that in my experience (Father: Russian Orthodox; Mother: Protestant; and I was baptized and raised Orthodox, before converting to Buddhism), it is very true. And that is the approach Nick takes. He wants someone to tell him that everything will be ok. That all of his sins are absolved and that there is nothing left to repay. He sees redemption as an end result--not a process. If he were capable of seeing it as a process he would be able to recognize that he has made strides in atoning. But for him it's all or nothing... And, I for one (as many of you know) do NOT belive ANYTHING is that black and white. Like Nat said in Blackwing (blech!): he wants his "soul dry cleaned"...simple, quick, and something that someone else can do for him. Alora: Natpacker & Co-Listowner SKL.....<alora@a.......> For info about SKL see: http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~mjack/SKL/ "I am surrounded by freaks. So why is it I feel so at home?"--Remington Steele ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 16:22:57 -0700 From: Margie Gillis <margieg@e.......> Subject: good Nat eps I need some help from NatPackers and N&NPackers. I've promised to make some tapes for someone who's a Nat fan. She watched the show first season, but stopped watching somewhere around For I Will Repay. If you NatPackers could email me offlist with your favorite eps, that would be great. Actually, she's looking for "Nat eps, and any others that really stand out", so you can include other eps (I just know that if I go strictly by my own judgement she's going to wind up with all the good Immortal Beloved eps instead...). I'm assuming she'll probably be happier with second season eps since she doesn't know any third season characters, but I'll take suggestions from all three seasons. ObFK: hmm. YKYB...when you're driving home one night and notice a *big* bumpersticker on the car in front of you that reads "DENIAL isn't a river in Egypt" and you almost drive your car off the road laughing... Thanks! Margie margieg@e....... Dark Knightie/Immortal Beloved/Unnamed ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:53:04 -0400 From: "Lisa P." <LadysAVamp@a.......> Subject: Off Topic...sort of (The Lisa Thang) Hi Everyone, Time for my nightly ranting and raving. All right, I'm getting confused. Not an unusual state of being for me. But I'm reading posts that mention "Lisa P." and the problem is - there are 2 of us on this list! :) And as I'm reading I'm thinking - did I say that? <scratches head> Which is why I have begun to use my last name. When quoting "Lisa P.", I was just wondering if people could include last names. If this bothers anyone, then forget I ever mentioned it. (Actually, there are ALOT of Lisas on this list. Time to start our own faction? ;) ) Ranting urge satisfied. Lisa Patnaude *************************************************************************** Only one thing is truly permanent...Forever Knight Cousinly Knightie w/NatPacker tendencies <I do so hate to limit myself> LadysAVamp@a......., oboyyme@t....... <Just call me a Lady of the Knight...but say it with a smile> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:01:46 -0400 From: "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......> Subject: Re: Killing, etc.: Sandra's post Too much here to answer! As far as "rules" are concerned, the best fiction involving magic or any kind of supernatural phenomenon makes its rules clear (OK, the various episodes in FK haven't adhered to a high level of consistency in this regard -- gasp). My favorite role model in supernatural fantasy with clearly explained guidelines as to what the character can or can't do is Anthony Boucher's delightful "Compleat Werewolf." I suppose I see FK as a "supernatural vampire" setup because that is how it looks in the pilot episode. An SF explanation (e.g., some kind of "vampire virus") might be workable as a unifying explanation of what we "know" about vampires from the series (with a lot of tinkering). 'Course I don't hold DRACULA to be definitive for all vampire fiction. I just said it's what I personally fixed on from an early age. In fact, I love SF vampires; the vampire as a naturally evolved species is my favorite kind of fiction. (See my story "Voice from the Void" in THE TIME OF THE VAMPIRES, ed. Elrod and Greenberg, for my kind of vampire. I do have a more angst-ing sort of character in an unpublished novel, though.) The first time I read DRACULA (at age 12) I wondered how HE saw these events -- that's why I love Saberhagen's series -- THE DRACULA TAPE is the book I always wanted to write. I have always been fond of vampire-viewpoint fiction. However, I do valorize books over films for the "authentic" version of vampirism -- not rationally defensible, just my lit-crit side being dominant. The "killing instantly" and "disintegrating in sunlight" conventions are movie inventions, and authors who use them, I believe, tend to be authors who are primarily influenced by movie images of vampires, not their literary predecessors. (Anne Rice had not read D. before writing INTERVIEW. The only story I recall her mentioning as a pre-INTERVIEW influence is Matheson's "Dress of White Silk" -- not a conventional vampire tale by any measure!) (Whether the vampire can function by day varies from one folklore tradition to another. Offhand, I can't think of any prominent instance of "killing instantly" in folklore. Gradual wasting away seems commoner. But the neat thing about vampire folklore is that an author can find just about anything in some culture's mythology, somewhere, to justify the story he or she wants to write.) Margaret L. Carter Nick / Natpacker, fledgling Light Cousin, and habitual sipper ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:59:36 -0400 From: Jane Credland <janes@i.......> Subject: Re: Blackwing script At 04:45 AM 6/19/96 -0400, dotti rhodes wrote about Nick calling Nat in Blackwing: >Uh-uh....no....he did not call her to chortle over anything. He called her >because he felt good, for the first time in almost 800 years he felt good >and he wanted to share it with the one person that means the most to him. So, what does this say about Nick racing off to tell Janette about his "mortality" in The Fix? He didn't just pick up the telephone. He actually got into his car and drove to the Raven so he could tell her in person. Maybe Natalie isn't the one person who means the most to him. Maybe she is his best friend, and the only person he could call when Janette wasn't around. After all, Lacroix wouldn't have been overjoyed at Nick's news, and Tracy doesn't know he's a vampire. So, there is no-one else for Nick to call but Natalie when Janette's incommunicado. Jane (janes@i.......) Raven ** Immortal Beloved ** M.B.D.T.K Tread softly because you tread on my dreams [W.B. Yeats} ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:01:16 -0400 From: "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......> Subject: Nick's adjustment as a vampire Well, I guess I don't really want Nick to turn into Saint-Germain. If he did, he wouldn't be himself; their personalities are too different. I really want him to become similar to P. N. Elrod's Jack Fleming (another vampire detective). Jack's powers and special needs involve him in a lot of ethical dilemmas, and he spends a fair amount of time wrestling with his dark side. He drinks cattle blood on a regular basis, too -- human blood is for erotic purposes. Unlike Nick, he basically enjoys being a vampire, shares an active love life with his girlfriend, and has no feeling that vampirism in itself is evil -- good or evil consists of the choices an individual makes with the material available to him. Because of a vampire's strength, hypnotic power, etc., combined with the blood thirst (Jack's use of hypnosis on witnesses, suspects, criminals, etc., is a constant source of worry to him, because it tends to awaken the bloodlust, on top of the ethical question of how far he is justified in overriding other people's free will), the problem of good and evil affects him urgently on a daily (nightly) basis more than it does most people. To me, that's plenty of angst and moral seriousness, without a "compulsion to kill" -- which I still think makes the character less interesting by destroying a big chunk of his free will. But I understand the rationale of the opposite viewpoint and know we will never change each others' opinions. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:10:34 -0500 From: "J.S.Levin/Stormsinger" <wabbit@e.......> Subject: Re: Killing - sipping - choices Margie (treeleaf@i.......) says: >If Nick could just sip and not kill his victim, there would be no moral >dilemma at all. He would make love, he would sip a little, and the lover >would not be a victim, just someone indulging in a little unusual sex. I think what you are missing is the fact that while he *could* do exactly that, the *urge* would be to do more. There is sex which is good, and there is sex which is earth-shattering. What if the opportunity to *always* have earth-shattering sex were a conscious choice? Could you refrain from doing it -- even if you knew the consequences were death to your partner? Or might you, riding on the wave of passion, *forget* yourself -- especially if you have been taught to view your partners as objects, less than yourself (either man looking at woman, or vampire looking at mortal). Also, remember this isn't *just* sex. This is also food. So it's hunger, thirst, and all the nuances of sexual desire tied together. I personally really like the idea of that *force* being something a vampire must learn to control by degrees, rather than a simple on/off switch. Otherwise, vampires are not mentally healthy -- they must either binge (kill) or starve (as Nick is doing on cow's blood, slowly perhaps, but it is not the correct diet for his body and it shows). There is no middle ground of having control over oneself. Now I admit that the FK "model" of vampirism does work with the "alcoholic" model that Nat uses on Nick -- but my disagreement with *that idea* is a whole 'nother tirade! <G> Storm (Vaquera, Scrapper, Gangrel) wabbit@e....... (J.S.Levin/Stormsinger) Their canon met my imagination and was outgunned. If you practice being fictional, you discover that "characters" are as real as people with bodies and heartbeats... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:26:47 -0500 From: michael wayne jackson <mjay@n.......> Subject: Re: Puns! Linda Simon asked: >Who was it said (approximately), "It is preferable to be well >descended, but the glory belongs to our ancestors." ? Plutarch in his Morals: "It is indeed a desirable thing to be well descended, but the glory belongs to our ancestors." michael wayne jackson -- mjay@n....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:29:40 -0400 From: "Lisa P." <LadysAVamp@a.......> Subject: Re: Blood In a message dated 96-06-19 13:20:28 EDT, Lisa McDavid writes: > It seems they considered doing a scene in which the vampire bites on > the thigh. The idea was abandoned after research. It seems the blood > is under high pressure at this point and the effect would be like > trying to drink from a fire hose. (I think this was exactly how she LOL! I just got the most hilarious picture in my head <still LOL>! We see Lacroix firmly attached to a thigh, his cheeks (facial) puffed out due to the high pressure of blood being released. His whole body forced off the ground and into a horizontal position as his legs swing helplessly out behind him. He grasps onto the thigh with both hands, trying to release his fangs before he reaches critical mass. I just had to share that with someone before I reached critical mass from ROTFLMAO! Lisa Patnaude *************************************************************************** Only one thing is truly permanent...Forever Knight Cousinly Knightie w/NatPacker tendencies <I do so hate to limit myself> LadysAVamp@a......., oboyyme@t....... <Just call me a Lady of the Knight...but say it with a smile> =========================================================================
Previous |
This month's list |
Next |