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Logfile LOG9606A Part 9

June 5, 1996

File: "FORKNI-L LOG9606A" Part 9

	the Father thing
	san fransisco con
	Fwd: An Amalgam  (2)
	Father and son
	Cedric Smith
	Yet More Astrology!
	IT WILL HAPPEN, if we Make it Happen!
	Beginning of the Code :)
	MediaWest*Con '96 Trip Report
	Nigel Bennett
	It can happen
	Nat Pack Birthdays
	first season parental stuff
	Nick's Attitude
	Nick and Nat in StF

Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 06:13:49 -0700
From:         LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject:      Re: the Father thing

Someone (Marge?) said:

>I don't remember hearing Nick refer to LaCroix as his father.  Even in
>Dark Knight, Nick says LaCroix is "like" a father or a brother,

Dotti replied:
>I'm not sure, but I think its "Father's Day" where Nick really
>acknowledges the fact that he considers LaCroix his father....

Sorry if this has already been stated (digest has its drawbacks), but
yes, in Father's Day, Nick came to see LC and said "Happy Father's Day"
which kind of acknowledges the connection in that way.

There was also a reference in the Last Knight 2/16 script (no
spoilers), but that didn't even survive to the 2/19 script <g>.

Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:26:28 +0200
From:         katrinka <STUKENDALCA@m.......>
Subject:      san fransisco con

is anyone going to the san fransisco con that will have pat elrod and
nigel b. as a guest? I'm not going, but a friend of mine is, she's a pro
writer (comic books) and is needing a roomate, preferably in the hotel,
she asked me not to use her name on the list, but she's really a nice
woman. she is a child of lacroix (she likes that term better then cousin)
she also likes screed. This is the strange thing, she is a dead ringer
for DIVIA! What's even stranger is that her husband looks like skanke.
please, if anyone can help her, can you e-mail me off list and i'll pass
the messages to her.
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 06:42:18 PST
From:         June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject:      Re: Fwd: An Amalgam

:On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, John Folden wrote, regarding whether Miklos was a
:> In "Bad Blood", an early 2nd season episode...Liam O'Neill strolled into
:> the Raven with a cross to find vampires...he touched Miklos' head with it
:> and nothing happened(other than him getting angry)...

Cynthia pointed out that Gillian Horvath wrote him as a vampire. Maybe he
was a Star of David sort of vampire?


Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat    kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:05:06 -0400
From:         "Susan M. Garrett" <susang@v.......>
Subject:      Father and son

It's odd that in the discussion of Nick's relationship with LaCroix, more
people haven't mentioned "Father's Day."  The scene in which LaCroix
confronts Nick in the alley about having gone to an herbalist in attempting
to find a 'cure' for his condition is very telling . . . and very different
from the way it was originally scripted.  I believe Gillian had once said
something about having envisioned the scene in a place with a lot of
glassware (the time period was changed) where LaCroix literally swept the
floor with Nick (wonder how much of that ended up in "Killing Instinct"?).
As filmed, the scene contains less physical violence.  I think Ger said
something to the effct of having played the scene like an adolescent boy
who's just been caught smoking by his dad.

I think it was at the second DOW that Nigel said something about LaCroix's
relationship with Nick using some of the same terms--that LaCroix was trying
to swat some sense back into Nick for his own good before he could do
himself a serious injury.  Of course, this is far from an exact
quote--someone could probably go back to one of the post-DOW reports to pick
out something closer to the actual quote, but it's within context.

As far as Nick calling LaCroix 'father," believe it or not there was
actually a line in an early version of the script of "Last Knight" where
Nick says, "Please Father" quite near the end. (No spoilers here--honest.)

And on a more business-oriented note--There's very little chance of FK being
purchased by another company because TriStar won't sell.  The business of
televison production is a marriage between production and a venue in which
it can appear.  FK moved from Tri-Star-CBS to TriStar-Syndication to
TriStar-USA+Syndication to TriStar-Syndication and, finally, to
TriStar-Syndication+SciFi.  Right now, TriStar can't afford to sell FK for
very practical reasons (if they sold the property, claiming that it was a
loss, and then the purchasers made a hit out of it then heads would roll at
the home office).  As memories fade over time, TriStar MAY be convinced to
sell, but I think the chance of getting more FK (in a TV movie format)is far
more likely to occur if the series proves success on SciFi and USA can be
convinced to foot the bill for a TV Movie.

This means that we have to let the people at SciFi and the sponsors who pay
for airtime during the series that we're watching and watching faithfully.
We have to let our cable companies know we're watching SciFi for FK.  Those
people unfortunate enough to not receive SciFi on their cable can make
points by writing to their cable companies and asking for SciFi because they
want to watch FK--and then sending copies of those letters on to SciFi.  If
our interest in Fk means the SciFi channel gets picked up by more cable
companies, someone's going to wonder if they can't make a little more money
off the series by making more.

Which leads me to a reminder--it's June and the FK CD and cassette should be
available in local record stores soon.  If you care about FK, buy it!  We
can piss and moan about not getting merchandise, but no one is going to pay
attention to us if we don't put our money where our e-mail is and pay for
the darned thing.  Not only would buying it help us prove that we are out
here, we have money, and we're willing to buy FK merchandise, but it's also
a thing of beauty and a joy forever and it would make Fred happy.

For those people watching FK in syndication--yes, most contracts allow
stations to rerun episodes from the third season through September.
Unfortunately, whether these episodes are scheduled to air on your local
station depends entirely on them.  Some stations get antsy when a series
gets cancelled and once original episodes are gone they don't bother with
the repeats.  If you want to continue to see the repeats this summer, write
to your local syndicators and tell them so!  They can't bring back FK, but
they can provide you with your fix for a little while longer.

It might seem like the SOS-FK effort has disappeared--it hasn't.  I think
we're all just a bit worn out and so we're not quite as loud and as frantic
as we once were.  But right now, loud and frantic won't do us any good.  We
have to be here for the duration, which means writing letters, buying CDs or
cassettes, and keeping fan interest in the series alive.

susang@v....... -- http://www.vitinc.com/~susang
Faithful Ravenette, because somebody STILL has to.
"This is the Hour of Lead; Remembered, if outlived--
like Freezing persons recollects the snow--
first the chill--then stupor--and then the letting go."
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 07:11:16 -0700
From:         Ann-Lu Blewett <ann-lu@i.......>
Subject:      Re: Cedric Smith

Michael Wayne Jackson wrote:
>He is also the voice of Charles Xavier, Professor X, on the animated
>X-Men. Cath is the voice of Jean Grey, Phoenix.  The actor who plays
>Peter Caine on KF:TLC also supplies the voice of one of the X-Men
>characters, but I can'tfigure out which one.

I know I read a post that said CD did a voice for the X-Men and also NB
does a voice but I can't figure out who it is either.  (It isn't the
NIGHTCRAWLER IS IT?!!!!!!!) That would be just too funny!
Does anyone know how long they have done the voices?

Ann-Lu   <ann-lu@i.......>
Cousinly McGregor of the UF....
"They're so noisy, but I love the free food!"
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:52:39 GMT
From:         Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@n.......>
Subject:      Re: Yet More Astrology!

On Jun 05, 1996 00:55:16, 'Carrie Krumtum <carriek@e.......>' wrote:

>> Oh, my!  So Nigel's a Scorpio and Ger's an Aries/Taurus cusp!
>Okay, so I'm not an officianado. What exactly does it mean
>that GWD's an Aries/Taurus cusp!? I haven't a klew.

It means that he BOUNCES. <g>

Seriously, though: there is NO SUCH THING as a cusp.  People are either one
sign or the other, no blurring around the edges.  The explanation of the
"cusp" phenomena is determined by the fact that when someone's sun sign is
close to another sun sign, the remaining planets of the solar system tend
to gather in the adjacent sun sign, thus creating personality traits more
closely indicative of the other sign.

So without a time of birth, and a chart sitting in front of me, I can't
tell you much except that the man is either an Aries or a Taurus, NOT both.

But Natalie is NOT an Aries.  Not, not, not.

>Carrie, Proud Knightie
>The Nurse is a hampster

Jamie, Proud Natpacker aka Paramedic #1
The Surgeon is a falcon

The Truth Is Out There. Just maybe not in our jurisdiction.
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:24:27 PDT
From:         "Leslie I.Plummer" <lplummer@i.......>
Subject:      IT WILL HAPPEN, if we Make it Happen!

John Folden wrote:
>Perhaps we should organize some sort of project where we pick a new
>(media) company to "bug & inform" (them about FK) each month or

GREAT IDEA!  Wouldn't take too much.  We could choose a different
"target" each month & keep doing it Till We Get Our FK!

1) Gather prospective targets, which companies would be the best first
   four to do?, etc.
2) Someone(s) volunteer who can get the name/address/email/fax number/etc.
   of the best person(s) to contact at target company & any other
   pertinent info.
3) Send out the name/address & brief synopsis of what letter should contain,
   so that our messages are unitied, and DATE to SEND.
4) Lots of folks (500+?) to write to that person, _all_at_the_same_time!
   More impact than dribbles or occasional letters over time.
5) Letter writing campaigns can be very effective, especially when an
   unsuspecting receiver of said mail gets BAGS of mail all at once, or
   whose mail room blows a gasket, fax machines run out of paper...
   Remarkable (I mean it literally, remarkable: to be remarked about!)
   stuff!  Let's get them talking about US & FK.  We are news, too!

US Independence day is close (July 4).  Could we organize the first
LETTER BLITZ by then? (Or on some other relevant date, from Canada, perhaps?)

--We get yet more media people aware & asking the important questions
   (Just Whats IS this FK & Why Do They Love It So?  Why won't they go
    away? Are our view statistics right?  What can we produce, sell, offer
    to them?, etc.)
--We've done something REPORTABLE in their publications, & get coverage
  (an oddity maybe, but if we keep doing it to more & more... well,
  Arlo Guthrie's "Alice's Restaurant" tells it all!)
--The public reads about it & asks the same questions
--New fans are restored after the LK fallout & USA answers to THEIR pleas.
--More new fans are brought into the larger fandom fold & our voice grows!
--The media people start asking *their* inside-the-business contacts just
  what's going on.
--And, we get MORE FK!

COMMITTMENTS ARE LOCKED IN!  Please, please, let's do this!!!

Forgive me.  I'm taking no prisoners. Whatever it TAKES!

SO WHAT if we don't know how far we'll get with all these efforts!
SO WHAT if we haven't heard back in only 6 months since cancellation!
SO WHAT if no fan group has ever been SO mobilized on the Internet before!
SO WHAT if no fan group has barnstormed NATPE before!
SO WHAT if no fan group has sent 2,000+ paper cranes to Sony execs, etc.!
SO WHAT if no fan group has ever brought back a show 2x or 3 times before!
SO WHAT if no fan group is writing a virtual season (while waiting for more)!
SO WHAT if no fan group has raised $10,000 for charity in name of their show!
SO WHAT if no fan group has organized blood drives in name of a vampire!
SO WHAT if no fan group has ever stormed Every Publication or Media
           Course it can w/coordinated letter writing campaigns!

    *I*    *DON'T*    *CARE*!

NO OTHER SHOW is like Forever Knight & NO OTHER GROUP is like US!
WE Make Up Our OWN Rules.
WE Set Our OWN Goals & Limits.
WE Create Our OWN Reality!

All we have to do is DO IT, NOW!

N&NPacker/Knightie:  An FK (Anything New; Whatever it Takes!) sort of gal
Have you sent in your FK survey? (Due 6/26/96) Email for a copy. Hand it out!
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:48:48 GMT
From:         Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@n.......>
Subject:      Re: Beginning of the Code :)

Am forwarding this message for someone who is having Technical Troubles
With The Hamsters.  My Webgoddessly Good Deed of the Day <g>

>----- Forwarded message ("L-Soft list server at PSUVM (1.8b)"
<LISTSERV@p.......>) -----<

> Date:          Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:03:39 +0000
> Subject:       Re: Beginning of the Code :)
> > Of course, then they had to try had to make killing the hunter in
> > Hunted in the second season feeding on the guilty. I mean, come on,
> > even if he's a poacher, that's a pretty minor crime and there's no
> Perhaps he would have made a distinction between deliberately
> hunting people for food and killing, by whatever means, someone
> who was trying to kill him?
> Joanna Keenan
> As pedantic as circumstances allow.
> murrayfbigg@a.......
Joanna Keenan
Rather applogetic about not understanding computers.
Jamie M.R.
As helpful as possible before morning coffee.
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:00:03 EDT
From:         Mary Anne Espenshade <mae@a.......>
Subject:      MediaWest*Con '96 Trip Report

The gory details...  I know I met some of you there (Hi Nancy and SusanG and
the Natpack!) but I'm awful with names.

MediaWest*Con XVI

I made it back to MWC this year, after missing last year.  This is getting to
be an every-other-year thing - next year Costume Con is in Baltimore the
same weekend, so my sister and I will be going there.  I over-extended myself
again, I was on 8 panels.  I skipped all the B5 panels because I didn't get
to watch War Without End pt 2 Saturday at 6 like nearly everyone else at the
con... I was on a panel.  I also missed the QL panels and most of the XF
panels, though that was unintentional.  I was either on or at all the FK panels.

12 hour trip, Ohio is STILL under construction!
Evening - started wandering the halls and checking out the room dealers.

noon- the dealer's room feeding frenzy begins!  I actually made it through
Bill Hupe's table reasonably quickly and only spent $160. (this time - I
went back and found more each day!)
4pm - Forever Knight: Have changes improved or detracted from the series?
It's a pity we have to suggest panel topics in September for a con about
TV series in May.  This and a number of other topies were rendered mostly
irrelevant by the time of the con.  We talked a little about the third
season changes and what USA was aiming for (not us, obviously), and then
talked about the final few episodes.
5:30pm - Brother Cadfael Fandom Intro
This one surprised me, I had to go.  Most of the fans there had discovered
the character through the Mystery episodes.  I'd read the books first.
The person giving the intro had the second season, which US tv still hasn't
aired, on tape.  Most of the discussion was on how the episodes differed
from the books, fortunately it had been so long since I read the ones
filmed that I didn't really notice.
6pm - Dr Who: The new Dr. Who-- the history of time travel?
Unlike the net, this bunch of people *liked* the new DW movie.
8pm - She Wolf of London Fandom Intro
Well, there were 4 of us there, the panelist, a magazine writer and her
husband, and me.  The writer had been to the UK set and interviewed the
cast and crew.  There is a little fan-fic out there, and a web site.
8:30pm - FK Fandom Intro
Nancy Duemling and I put this together.  Susan Garrett came in for the
second half and could answer some behind the scenes questions we couldn't.
We had about 10 people in the audience, most of whom had only found the show
recently.  We explained the history of the show, back to '89, and showed
magazine articles, fan club stuff and photos.
After the panel, Nancy and I talked to Susan in the hall for about 40
minutes, mostly about the SOS campaign and the cancellation.
10pm - music videos - the contest entries
No predominate series or song, like there is some years. 2 nice B5 entries,
more Kung Fu, the Legend Continues (why? -this is beyond me), 3 Voyager
videos to the Gilligan's Island theme (and they each had picked a different
person for Gilligan!).

10am - XF: Assistant Director Walter Skinner
Does Mitch P. have any idea how many women are drooling over him?
11am - art show - lots of lovely stuff.  I do not bid on art.... I do NOT
bid on art... I DO NOT bid on art... keep saying it, resist temptation.
Not much QL, lots of Due South, B5, FK, Trek, Pros, S/H and UNCLE.  Wish
someone would write a story to go the the picture of Lovejoy trying to sell
Duncan MacLeod a sword!  (If it was an illo for a zine, somebody let me
know which one!)
1pm - ST:DS9: How has adding Worf altered the character dynamics and
long-term plots?
Another outdated topic.  We touched on it some, but mostly talked about
DS9 in general.  It was nice to be in a room-full of people who like the
show, that can be hard to find.  Concluded that Worf, and the decision to
focus on Klingon stories and drop some of the Bajoran/Cardassian story
lines, had a bigger effect on plots than on characters.  Worf still doesn't
really fit well into the show.  Nobody there had started watching the show
to see him and one has refused to watch the show since he was added, so it
sounds like this idea didn't attract much of a new audience, at least among
the sort of people who are active in fandom.
3pm - videos - the new CA Crew tape, they had 2 FK videos - one to the Cheers
theme showing the Raven and one to a song called Ladykiller (!)
6pm - Fandom on the WWW: TV Sites, fiction archives, and how to find them.
Unfortunately, most of the audience was AOL, so I didn't have much to
contribute.  They were more interested in finding out how to navagate from
AOL and use it's specific search engines than in more general web stuff.
7pm - Forever Knight: Have changes improved or detracted from the series?
The one I *wasn't* on.  Panels repeat if they have a lot of volunteers for
a topic.  It's interesting that the panelists I was with were mostly
net people and this set weren't.  They had a different perspective on
the changes through 3rd season.
8pm - Highlander party
we watched a tape of the satellite feed of the cliffhanger.  Arrrgh.
And found out why 2 episodes are being held for next season - they only
get to make 18 next year, instead of 22, so 2 were held to make both
season 4 and season 5 20 episodes.
9pm - Natpack Party
easy to find - just look for the body outline on the hall floor.
stayed a while, then wandered the halls some more, looking at door decorations
1:30am - CA Crew compilation tape - all their videos to songs from the
Scarlet Pimpernel concept album.  (must get to Planet Music and buy this!)
I'd seen most of these before, but now they make more sense knowing the
source of the music.

11am - Fandom on the WWW: how to set up your own home page.
The 2 of us on this panel had both brought hand-outs and examples of html.
Got some intelligent questions from the audience too.
12pm - Vampires: From blood-bloated ghoul to Frank Langella and Nick Knight:
why the image change?  Where to from here?
This topic ended up concentrating on the history of vampires in literature
and mythology.  The image is very different in different cultures to
start with.  Some of the change may be due to the fact that we now have
scientific explanations for much of what was traditionally blamed on
vampires, so we've turned them into fantasy figures instead.
2pm - Alien Nation: Are the new TV movies breathing life into the fandom?
Yes.  Some of the audience had only found the show with the movies.
They are doing/have done 2 more for next season.
3pm - FK: What would Nick do with his life if he was cured?
Another topic that wandered.  The short answer - either stop being a cop
or get killed quickly.
5pm - FanQ Awards
Susan Garrett won for her FK writing.
7pm - Art Auction - I didn't go, but my friends got the pieces they
wanted, some Due South cartoons and a lovely portrait of Marcus Cole (B5).

stayed up way too late watching music videos (again!)

10am - overslept, missed the panel I was planning to go to on Movies
from TV series.
11am - Where have all the good shows gone?  Are there really no good
"fannish" shows this season or is fandom just getting pickier?
The panelists didn't agree with the topic and mostly talked about what
new shows do have fandoms developing and what shows were likely/unlikely
to be big with fandom.

Drove back to MD, collapsed.

Final zine total in our car load (It's a really good thing we had
rented a Lincoln Town Car, next time we'll probably need a van!) -
I bought 48, Edie bought 10 (doubling her previous record!)
and Alex and Isoline bought 80 some between them.
The trunk is always much fuller coming back than going out.

New FK zines:
Good Guys Wear Fangs #3
It's a Wonderful Unlife
On the Wings of the Knight 2
Let There Be Light
Bedtime Tales from the Dead of Winter
Dark Fantasies 3 (X)
The Serpent's Kiss
Sins of the Fathers
A Touch of Forever
When We Weep
The Devil You KNow
eXotica 1 (XF+FK)

A good (and expensive!) time was had by all.
Mary Anne Espenshade
"What time is it?  What day is it?  What century is it?"
-- me, after the first Weekend with Ger (and any MediaWest*Con!)
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:17:11 -0400
From:         sylvie <quinn@m.......>
Subject:      Nigel Bennett

Hi, I don't write too often to the list...hey what can I say I am a lurker :)
Anyway, I came across a Canadian movie called PAINT CANS in which Nigel has
a part.It is recorded at SP, anyone who wants to trade and need a copy
,please contact me via private email, a.s.a.p.
I will not keep that copy, as I don't collect on Nigel,also in that movie
Bruce Greenwood (nowhere man), Paul Gross (Due south...small part).
It is not the starring role for Nigel in that movie BTW.
Bye Bye

Sylvie  quinn@endirect.qc.ca.
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 09:24:40 -0700
From:         Valery King <kingv@u.......>
Subject:      Re: GWD, JC

On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Carrie Krumtum wrote, after seeing Ghost Mom:

> Camera Operator---Jon Cassar". I rewound a rewatched just to be sure.
>The movie is copyrighted 1993. Does anyone know if Jon directed any FK
>eps before 1993, in the first season? [snip] Is it a normal thing for
>directors to work on crews like that?

Jon was a camera operator on FK in the first season, before he was a
director. Forever Knight seemed to make it a habit to give work to baby
directors (Terry Steyn who was also something else in production during
first season, Ger, and Nigel, for instance). In every case the chance
they've taken has paid off wonderfully!

And did anyone see the Due South episode that took place in the strip
club? Jon directed that!

Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:38:31 -0500
From:         "J.S. Levin/Stormsinger" <wabbit@e.......>
Subject:      Re: It can happen

John T. Folden, our demented Victorian, suggests:

>I think it would be really good if we could get mentioned somewhere in
>Entertainment Weekly... I don't believe I've ever seen one blurb about
>FK in there...Perhaps we should organize some sort of
>project where we pick a new company to "bug & inform" each month or

I think this is a *stupendous* idea!  Let's do it; it *sure* can't hurt.

Noted, btw, that the K:tE site set up in late March by Spelling or Fox or
whoever has had 2.6 *MILLION* hits to date.  C'mon, folks -- surely we're
*at least* that rabid!  Whose email can we flood, whose counter can we

"...is it any wonder I've got too much time on my hands?" (Styx, Pieces of
Eight, "Too Much Time on My Hands")

Totally off-topic BTW:  if the Styx concert is going to be landing near you,
and you *ever* liked a song of theirs, GO!  I went here in Milwaukee, and it
was probably one of the best concerts I've ever seen.  Not one of them could
stop grinning for more than two minutes, the crowd got to its feet in the
first ten seconds and *stayed there* for the whole two hour, *no break* set.
It was the Grand Reopening of the Paradise Theater with a *vengence*.

And, fer heaven's sake, *Kansas* opened for them here, cramming more stuff
into an hour than I thought could fit.  Great show all around.

ObFK:  we know Vachon is a rocker.  Apache suggested in "Duende" that he
played back up for the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band (I think) in the late 60s or
early 70s.  Can you see him (and Urs, Screed and Bourbon????<G>) being
roadies or backup for somebody else?  Sure would make avoiding the Inca
easy, if you're in a different city every day!  On the other hand, if the
boy could read a tour shirt, he'd know where you are -- if a little
difficult to approach!

Storm (Vaquera, Scrapper, Gangrel)
wabbit@e....... (J.S.Levin/Stormsinger)
Their canon met my imagination and was outgunned.
If you practice being fictional, you discover that "characters"
are as real as people with bodies and heartbeats...
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:38:34 -0500
From:         "J.S. Levin/Stormsinger" <wabbit@e.......>
Subject:      Re: Miklos

To synopsize:

The question was asked by Antonia whether or not Miklos (the bartender at
the Raven) is a vampire.  It appears that, although Gillian Horvath (all bow
in praise!!<G>) had intended him to be, "Bad Blood" shows him reacting to
being touched with a cross only by being angry, not singed.

First of all, Gillian invented him.  She should know.  Now, how to explain
the apparent <EG> lack of continuity (in FK???? Heaven forfend!!<G>):

It is possible (but unlikely the way I read things) that Miklos could simply
be old enough to look at the cross as a less devestating symbol than younger
vampires, but I really doubt it.  It's not so much the *vampire's* belief as
the belief that's been laid in behind the symbol itself (a psychic pipeline,
if you will).  Heck, LaCroix is affected by crosses, and we know (AMPH) that
he was *not* a Christian at any time in his mortal life.

But I think it is also possible that Miklos could be a *strong* enough
vampire to grit his teeth, NOT LET THE MORTAL SEE THAT HE'D BEEN HURT, and
be mad.  I suspect that Miklos, as a bartender, gets a more regular workout
of his psychic abilities than any other vampire in TO.

Yes, Miklos, that was another two ducats worth.  Just put it on my tab.

Storm (Vaquera, Scrapper, Gangrel)
wabbit@e....... (J.S.Levin/Stormsinger)
Their canon met my imagination and was outgunned.
If you practice being fictional, you discover that "characters"
are as real as people with bodies and heartbeats...
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:48:45 -0500
From:         Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......>
Subject:      Re: Nat Pack Birthdays

Re Nat's birthday being in April or June, Beth wrote:
>Works for me.  The only problem I had with it was that in OTL, it was clearly
>warm weather, as everyone was walking around without a coat.  Having just
>been in Toronto in late April, there's *no way* it could have been that warm!

Not only that, but I'm pretty sure Roger (the bad guy) keeps harping about
it being summertime and Nat's needing to take breaks from her work to enjoy
it. I'm sure most Candians do not consider mid-April to be summertime. No,
the April birthday is definitely another page for the Wall of Shame.

Stephanie Babbitt, Vaquera
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:55:08 -0500
From:         Sarah Elizabeth Priebe <sep9779@t.......>
Subject:      Re: first season parental stuff

I may be wrong in this but doesn't Nick give LC a watch for "Father's
Day" in Season 2?  To me that says that Nick considers LC a "father" of

Sarah P.

On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Margie Hammet wrote:

> At 09:23 AM 6/4/96 -0500, Carrie Krumtum wrote:
> >I would say that there wasn't any such emphasis <on the father-son
> > relationship in first season because ... LaCroix ... only existed in
> >flashbacks, and since the flashbacks were all from Nick's
> >POV, they wouldn't hold that kind of emphasis anyway
> This brings up something I've been noticing.  I hear lots of references
> from LaCroix about Nick being his son, but I don't remember hearing Nick
> refer to LaCroix as his father.  Even in Dark Knight, Nick says LaCroix
> is "like" a father or a brother, while LaCroix directly refers to Nick
> as "my child".  Nick refers to LaCroix as his friend some of the time, but
> not as his father.  I don't know what this means.  Any thoughts on it, or
> are there episodes where he does refer to LaCroix that way?
> Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
> N&NPacker
> Cousin of the Knight
> Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
> N&NPacker
> Cousin of the Knight
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:02:49 -0500
From:         April Ruskin <aruskin@e.......>
Subject:      Re: Fwd: An Amalgam

Joht Folden wrote:

>In "Bad Blood", an early 2nd season episode...Liam O'Neill strolled into
>the Raven with a cross to find vampires...he touched Miklos' head with it
>and nothing happened(other than him getting angry)...

Yah, but in... darn it, can't remember the name of the ep! The one where Sckanke
had to stay at the Raven... Didn't he almost open a closet that had Miklos
sleeping upside down in? And when Janette opened the closet later, he was vamped

(It might not have been him, I was slightly preoccupied at that moment. You ever
tried washing dishes and watching FK at the same time? Dishes take at least two
hours to do...)

April Ruskin -- The NinjaBabe w/ an Attitude * aruskin@e.......
Cousin with tendencies towards the mercs * SKLer * CSS * UFer * Cousin
Mommy to the Cousin Kids * Follower of the X * Empress of the Ellipses *
In LK Denial * We are the Forever Knights who say 'NI!' Bring us a shrubbery!
(As told by Ithildin)
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:11:54 -0700
From:         Amy R. <akr@n.......>
Subject:      Nick's Attitude

Tippi wrote, in her Nitpicky Cousin mode:
> Doesn't he say in the BMV flashback "I do not regret what I am"?  So for a
> little while, at least, he seems to be okay with it. <snip>
> Timewise, what's the next flashback we see after those in BMV? <snip>
> When's the first time we see Nick verbalize a regret for what he is?

He does indeed say that in BMV.  As the Fleur-Booster <g>, the only ep
I've seen more times than BMV is HF, and that was to fix the Nevermore
business.  However, while he seems relatively sincere when he says that to
Fleur -- he'd make his point better if he told her the opposite, so I
assume he's telling the truth -- he had already expressed regret and
disgust on several occasions.

The first, chronologically, is in KI, which has Nick describe himself as
LC's "slave" immediately after his first feeding.  The second is in the
Canadian version of DK, which has Nick asking for LC to change him back
only a little later that very night.  If the flashback of C&C is to be
taken as true, it occured during Nick's "first week of feeding," and he
was feeling guilt, even if he didn't know how to identify it.  All of
these things occured before the flashbacks of BMV.

The flashback chronologically closest to following BMV is either Liselle
in TG (which might also precede BMV), or it is in one of the eight spoiler
protected episodes (mail me off list if you care but can't recall!).  In
TG, Nick shows distaste for death and waste, not vampirism, so if TG comes
between DK and BMV, it actually shows a Nick who is becoming more
accepting of his lot, like the Nick who will offer his kind of immortality
to St. Joan in FIHS.  On the other side of BMV and its consequences,
however, it is only Nick's relationship with Janette that keeps him happy
as a vampire.  When she leaves, he tries to replace her with Alyssa, who
dies at his fangs, thus starting the whole mentality we know (and love;
some of us, anyway <g>) as Nick.

*** Amy, Lady of the Knight  (akr@n.......) ***
** Knightie *** Light Cousin *** Fleur-Booster **
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:47:40 -0500
From:         Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......>
Subject:      Re: Nick and Nat in StF

This thread interested me enough that I pulled StF out of the stack and
watched it (I'm trying to watch the eps in order, but I skip sometimes). I
found it very, very perplexing. What did Nick see in Emily that he found so
enticing? She reminded me a lot of Alyce Hunter, really. Maybe Nick is
profoundly attracted to mousy, short-haired brunettes with impeccable

In the airing sequence, did this ep come before or after BMV? I'm assuming
before. If it's after, it makes zero sense--trading one mortal woman for

Re the tag, LaurieCF wrote:
>Just goes to show we all see things very differently.  I thought he was
>saying "I wish I could have made it work with Emily."

I saw it this way, too, much to my frustration. I'm showing stronger N&N
leanings by the day, I think. Nat looks so disappointed, but she handles it
with awesome class.

>Reinforced, as Tippi pointed out, by the fact that when Nick fantasizes
>about The Denied, he envisions Emily, NOT Natalie, as the beloved

I loved these silly fantasies, especially John K's getting to go so over
the top in Schanke's. GWD is playing it straight while JK takes the Dracula
bit to the max. How the two of them managed to shoot that without
collapsing in hysterical laughter is beyond me. And Catherine! Her behavior
and voice are so totally different from Natalie's that I had to really
stare at the screen to be sure it was her. I was extremely impressed.
That's one of the best things about this show--the actors getting chances
to really show their stuff.

I'm not giving up, folks. FK is not over, not yet. It's just too good.
Stephanie Babbitt, Vaquera (& probable N&Npacker)
Date:         Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:10:47 -0400
From:         Joy Davis <Rjoi@a.......>
Subject:      Re: StF

Hi all!

I've just rewantched Stranger Than Fiction, which had come up for discussion
not too long ago.  I've got some thoughts on Nick's feeling for Emily vs Nat

It seems that with Nat, Nick has to resist what he is.  Nat want him as a
mortal and therefore feeds into, albeit unintentionally, his shame over being a
vampire.  With Emily, she put alot of herself into the book character and when
she found out Nick was a vampire, she embraced that part of him.

I think Nick was free to have feelings for Emily, for the consequences would
not be as devestating for him if he brought her accross accidentially.

With Nat, he must always be in control and on top of his impulses.  That
would certainly inhibit the natural 'out of control' feeling that comes with
falling in love.

Within the boundaries of their relationship, Nick has only allowed himself to
have a friendship with Nat.  Nat, though, is in love with Nick, but the
ending of StF showed that she avoids talking about something that can not be.
 Again, reinforcing the restraint Nick has placed on his feelings.

Anyone else with thoughts on this?

enJOYing the sunshine,
Cousin of the Knight~~~Unnamed Faction
& all around crazy for FK!

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