FORKNI-L
Logfile LOG9605A Part 3
May 2-May 3, 1996
File: "FORKNI-L LOG9605A" Part 3
TOPICS:
Vampire Killing and J.Doe--evil (3)
Is it French? (3)
Ger on Highlander (3)
Photos
Kindred vs FK (5)
Starlog
Sorry,sorry,sorry !
Vampire Killing (7)
Deb D on KF:TLC
???Another Nat becomes an immortal story????
Help? Missing 7 2nd-season eps
Last Knight Party/Wake (2)
Partee!
Jane Doe --the new off topic
Bringing across
Killing Hypothesis; do NOT read! just a rant!
GWD Movie
killing....and revenge
oops!
Parting is such sweet sorrow...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 20:25:54 -0500
From: Mad Hatter <cli7@s.......>
Subject: Re: Vampire Killing and J.Doe--evil
re: John Soo-Hoo
At 04:00 PM 5/2/96 -0800, you wrote:
>>Second, evil is subjective. You all can debate if Lacroix is evil, if
>>Hitler is evil, etc. The quintessence of the argument is that it is
>>all opinion, and opinions cannot be proven (else they'd be facts).
>
<snippety>
> You can make an arguement of how
>some acts or rituals may be seen as evil on a relative scale, but I would
>argue that there are certain acts that are considered by all societies.
>Cold blooded murders would be a good example.
there's another problem: how do we define "murder"? the dispatching
of a human being against their will?
in ancient times, biblical and otherwise, a man could kill his wife if
he was simply suspicious that she was somehow, by the defining theology,
unfaithful. the same goes in ancient China, where, under the strictest
Confucianism, the patriarch could kill of his wife or daughter(s) if he
was merely displeased with them. or the Indian practice of "sati"?
if "cold-blooded murder" is without reason, then there's obviously an
intrinsic cultural problem in defining murder as evil, for within a number
of cultural idiosyncrasies, those cultures which practice defined "murder"
would be evil--
and what would that society consider these certain acts?
if these acts were evil, why would they practice then at all in the first
place?
thus, the terms "evil" and "good" are subjective....
[i refuse to take a philosophy course in that i would never be able
to get a decent night's sleep again!] ;)
-madhat
~mad hatter <cli7@s.......>
* * *
"show me a nation whose national beverage is beer,
and i'll show you advanced toilet technology." -paul hawkins
* * *
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:29:19 -0400
From: Donna Albrecht <WriterDGA@a.......>
Subject: Is it French?
I know that LaCroix means "the cross" (definitely a name with a meaning).
I was wondering if anyone knows what "Brabont" (or however you spell Nick's
birth surname) means?
Thanks for any help you can give.
Donna G. Albrecht
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:24:56 -0400
From: Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......>
Subject: Re: Vampire Killing and J.Doe--evil
>Evil is not always subjective. Evil is everything that good is not, evil is
>that which is not respectable/corrupt. You can make an arguement of how
>some acts or rituals may be seen as evil on a relative scale, but I would
>argue that there are certain acts that are considered by all societies.
>Cold blooded murders would be a good example.
>
I disagree, for everything I can think of, some society at one point in
time or another has thought it was ok. Murder included. Ritual murders
were a part of Inca (Maya maybe?) society.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 21:31:49 -0500
From: Mad Hatter <cli7@s.......>
Subject: Re: Vampire Killing and J.Doe--evil
p.s.
and in the case of vampires, one can consider them one up
in the food chain over mortal humans. so, if they kill for
food--to survive--then it wouldn't be fair to call them "evil"
per se; like saying wolves are evil~ because they kill to eat?
puh-leez! [and there has never been a documented case
in human history where a wolf attacked a person unless it
was provoked, with rabies, or absolutely starving_]
LC can't be called evil because he relishes in feeding on his
prey; it might be distasteful, and "evil" to us, but under
the circumstances understandable at least. then there's
the thin line between relishing a feeding experience and
simply sadistic pleasure--which, in LC's case....
indicates he's a mean ol' vamp!
eh, i'm not sure if that rant still fits under the subject
heading anymore, but oh well.....
-madhat
~mad hatter <cli7@s.......>
* * *
"show me a nation whose national beverage is beer,
and i'll show you advanced toilet technology." -paul hawkins
* * *
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:47:47 -0400
From: Lesley DeHaan <ldehaan@j.......>
Subject: Re: Ger on Highlander
>Incidently, if you haven't seen this episode, it really shows GWD's vocal
>range as FK never could.
While on one of my excursions to Vancouver, I chanced a visit to Gastown
Labs where they edit HL. When asked what my favourite ep. was, I told her it
was the one with Ger in it ("Turnabout", in case any one's wondering about
the name). She gave me a copy of the foreign version, but not before
sticking the tape in the nearest VCR, to see what I was raving about. I must
say that she was quite amused about my being smitten over "Micheal Moore". (-:
Ahh, well, they don't have FK there so she doesn't know what she's missing.
BTW, the hospital used in the ep. is a real mental hosptal. When HL or XF
is shooting there, they literally put the patients out in the streets until
there done filming. Didn't know that did ya? (-:
Lesley
=-=-=-=
"You're not anybody...unless you're on TV."--Susanne "To Die For"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 00:00:14 -0400
From: Siona <siona@n.......>
Subject: Photos
I'm working hard at getting the photos from the Shrewthering up on the
Web. I anticipate that some of them should be up by this weekend. I'm
aiming for the actual show photos and tour photos to be up first. I'll
let everyone know the URL when those are ready.
Siona@n.......
Dark Knightie!
Help save Forever Knight! see http://www.netaxs.com/~siona/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:04:39 -0500
From: Mad Hatter <cli7@s.......>
Subject: Re: Kindred vs FK
At 09:06 PM 5/2/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Here's another one for you. In Kindred, there is a nightclub owned by a
>female vampire called...The Haven. Sound almost familiar??!!!
<macrosnip>
>I guess I am truly spoiled by the characters (the actors) on Forever Knight.
> This show cannot be duplicated.
>
>Lisa P.
i'm sorry, but i can't bring myself to even look at "kindred"!
after even the first few TV commercial previews, i thought it
was blasphemy. too....too......gadz, i can't even think of the word!
FK is its own little world--a cult item with culture, like x-files....
-madhat
~mad hatter <cli7@s.......>
* * *
"show me a nation whose national beverage is beer,
and i'll show you advanced toilet technology." -paul hawkins
* * *
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 00:33:00 -0400
From: Lesley DeHaan <ldehaan@j.......>
Subject: Re: Kindred vs FK
>Lesley DeHaan <ldehaan@j.......> wrote about the coincidence of FK
>leaving and the Kindred arriving. Too bad I don't believe in coincidences.
>
>Here's another one for you. In Kindred, there is a nightclub owned by a
>female vampire called...The Haven. Sound almost familiar??!!!
That was one of the main tip offs. I missed the premeire but when I saw
the Haven , I couldn't stop wondering if Spelling (or one of them) killed FK
to get rid of competition. 9-: Stacy Haduik is just a preppy Janette and
that scruffy one Julian's neice wants is a blond Vachon. Nick is Julian, I
suppose, but a definate LaCriox is conspiciously missing.
>I guess I am truly spoiled by the characters (the actors) on Forever Knight.
> This show cannot be duplicated.
Don't remind me.
BTW, I was embraced a few weeks ago as a Toreodor but I'll _never_ give up
my Knightiehood. (-:
Traiter, I know, but I didn't even know about the game 'til the show
started. I have missed the show over the past two weeks (FK is on again) so
I think I'll stick to the game and let Julian et al go on without me.
G'night. (Bed time, and the sun isn't even up yet. (-; )
Lesley
=-=-=-=
"You're not anybody...unless you're on TV."--Susanne "To Die For"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 01:10:37 -0400
From: Frederic Ferland <mrhappy@m.......>
Subject: Re: Is it French?
Hi Donna!
>I was wondering if anyone knows what "Brabont" (or however you spell Nick's
>birth surname) means?
Well, being french myself, I think I can answer that question. Okay, here
goes...
The correct spelling of Nick's surname is "Brabant". As for it's meaning,
yes, it is a french word, but no, it wasn't given to him based on the french
meaning of this word. In french, a brabant is a sort of plow. Nick's
surname comes from a province in Belgium named Brabant. That makes a little
more sense, doesn't it? :)
I hope that answers your question...
__________________________________________________________________________
Frederic Ferland |
mrhappy@m....... | Very funny, Scotty.
http://mtl.net/solidarite/mrhappy/fk.htm | Now beam down my clothes.
Natpacker & Perkulator (!) |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 01:14:02 -0400
From: Tigon Diana Hooker <TeigrLlew@a.......>
Subject: Re: Starlog
In a message dated 96-05-02 21:51:35 EDT, you write:
> Does anyone have the numbers (and, possibly, dates) of all the issues
>of Starlog with articles on FK?
#212-Mar 95-GWD
#214-May 95-JK
#215-Jun 95-NB
also somewhere around #140something is an interview w/ CD from
her War of the World days.
Tigon the Bouncing Tigger, Lone Woof at large
Woofpack w/ Knightie, N&N, and FoSiL tendencies
and maybe a smidgen of warped Cousin humor
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 01:32:22 -0400
From: Karen Fisher <FI96KE22@a.......>
Subject: Re: Kindred vs FK
>Lesley DeHaan <ldehaan@j.......> wrote about the coincidence of FK
>leaving and the Kindred arriving. Too bad I don't believe in coincidences.
>
>Here's another one for you. In Kindred, there is a nightclub owned by a
>female vampire called...The Haven. Sound almost familiar??!!!
>
I've seen Kindred a few times - it's no FK. Basically IMHO it's Vampires
90210, good for a few laughs, something to watch if I'm folding laundry or
re-copying my microbiology notes. Give me FK any day, strong women
characters, complex moral issues to deal with, a smattering of romance, and
of course, some of the best dark humor I've heard outside of England.
Karen Fisher (A Cousin who wonders if Uncle ever met Nietzsche and if so,
who influenced who!)
*********************************************************
* Karen Fisher * I don't like to stand on *
* FI96KE22@a....... * convention because it *
* (216) 287-4184 * still kicks and screams. *
* The College of Wooster '96 * *
* ?????????????????????? '00 * *
*********************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:59:48 -0700
From: Swordsister <catheboo@c.......>
Subject: Re: Is it French?
On Thu, 2 May 1996, Donna Albrecht wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone knows what "Brabont" (or however you spell Nick's
> birth surname) means?
Actually, I think the entirety of Nick's real last name is "de Brabant":
"of (from) Brabant", Brabant being a portion of what is now Belgium.
Hope that helps!
Catherine
---------------------------------------------------------------
Catherine Boone catheboo@c.......
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with
themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon." - H. L. Mencken
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:56:00 +0100
From: Anja Bornschein <Anja.Bornschein@t.......>
Subject: Sorry,sorry,sorry !
Hi,
I just want to apologize for my mistake sending a request to fkfic-l.
Thanks to everyone, who've told me this.
I've learned my lesson and I'll never ever do this again. That's for sure.
And of course, a big "Thank you" to all the members who've contacted me for
the missing parts.
I've received all of them.
Anja
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 07:04:24 -0400
From: June Williams <cousin@w.......>
Subject: Re: Ger on Highlander
>
> While on one of my excursions to Vancouver, I chanced a visit to Gastown
>Labs where they edit HL. When asked what my favourite ep. was, I told her it
>was the one with Ger in it She gave me a copy of the foreign version,
"Chanced a visit" ? methinks there is a bit of backstory to be heard about
that. How WAS the foreign version ? It was an excellent episode, and one
that I hadn't seen till last night. WOW. I was also amused at the fact that
the character's SO was named Jannette. Does anyone know if Mr B has appeared
in a HL episode ?
Ad Astra-June-cousin@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 08:22:41 EDT
From: Tanya Smith <bodybldr@v.......>
Subject: Vampire Killing
Let me specify when I say vampires kill humans, I am speaking of their
origin (someone was explaining this to me the other day. Apparently vampires
were born out of European legend and originally returned to kill the people
they loved most in life.)
Notice, I did not say ALL vampires. I said vampires,in general. Much like
cats kill mice. Do all cats kill mice? One can argue that all cats do
not kill mice, that they do not NEED to kill mice, but they do anyway. Why?
Because its instinct, perhaps born out of a genetic need to survive. Do
they take pleasure in it? Yes! Watch them play with their kill. Hence,
we can conclude that cats are evil!
Just a bit of logic for you
Tanya
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 08:58:32 -0400
From: "Nancy M. Duemling" <nancyd@p.......>
Subject: Deb D on KF:TLC
Someone posted on the Due South list that Deb Duchene will be on an
upcoming Kung Fu ep titled "Chill Ride" playing a character called
Xenia. Anyone know an air date for this?
Nancy D., Knightie and DueSer (nancyd@p.......)
Visit our web site at http://www.msen.com/~duemling/
Nick Knight, Benton Fraser, Ray Vecchio and Brisco County, Jr.
What is it with me and law abiding guys???
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:32:47 -1000
From: Kevin Matsumoto <kevinm@p.......>
Subject: ???Another Nat becomes an immortal story????
Folks, I just got an email from someone about my story "Companionship"
and they mentioned that someone else had just posted a story in which Natalie
became an Immortal. I never saw it. (If I had I probably would have chickened
out on posting mine :)) If anyone has that story could they email part of it to
me?
What I am really interested in is the beginning, the point were Natalie becomes
an Immortal and the Ending. I just have to see what the other author has
written.
Thanx in advance
Kevin Matsumoto
Nick and Natpacker
OK I finally admitted it :) with cousinly tendencies (You have to admire
LaCroix's style)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 07:46:03 -0600
From: Gay Eckes <raven@r.......>
Subject: Help? Missing 7 2nd-season eps
Hello all,
Finally decided to catalog my FK tapes, and one is missing! It was an 8 hr
EP one with the following 7 episodes: Killer Instinct, Faithful Followers,
Near Death, Partners of the Month, Curiouser & Curiouser, Beyond the Law and
The Code. Any kind soul willing to help me replace them? Of course I'll pay
for tape and postage. Or perhaps I have something for trade? TIA
Gay Eckes raven@r....... gdeckes@i....... gdeckes@c.......
>> Life's too short . . . <<
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:44:20 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: Vampire Killing
At 08:22 AM 5/3/96 EDT, Tanya Smith wrote:
>cats kill mice. Why?
>Because its instinct, perhaps born out of a genetic need to survive. Do
>they take pleasure in it? Yes! Watch them play with their kill. Hence,
>we can conclude that cats are evil!
Cats do what they do because they're cats, and they don't have the
intelligence to think about concepts like right and wrong or good and
evil, or any concepts, for that matter. Humans have the intelligence to
think about things like that and so do vampires.
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 11:28:59 EDT
From: Tanya Smith <bodybldr@v.......>
Subject: Vampire Killing
Yes, vampires DO have the capacity to think about right and wrong
(This being subjective, of course, because LC rarely violates his
own set of values). Given that there are objective standards for
right and wrong, however, it does not discount genetic coding which
is the foundation for instinct. Vampires have instinctual needs to
kill (That is why Lacroix is at peace with himself, he is only doing
what comes natural to him). Supposing that they evolve to a higher
plane where they have the capacity to resist killing humans (Nicholas)
where does that leave them? Nicholas still kills, just cows now. WE
humans kill cows every day--we pay people to do our dirty work--then
we eat their meat. Are we less "killers" than Nick?
Somebody mentioned Nicholas living off "bags of blood". How many human
lives would be sacrificed because vampires were raiding the blood supply?
Somebody also mentioned "stopping before they kill the human,"as if this
were a reasonable and understandable approach. O.K. for the rest of your
life, you must stop before you orgasm. It's not as easy as it seems, is
it? And yet you want them to do this for eternity?
OF course, I am playing devils' advocate in this discussion. I personally
believe killing is wrong, also. But I also believe it is a very natural,
compulsive urge. Go hunting sometime. You'll get an endorphin rush just
from tracking the animal, coming in for the kill (I've never been hunting
but my dad and brother have).
Maybe my dad and brother are less evolutionized because they perform the
killthemselves. But as long as you eat meat, you are killing also.
I personally respect my dad because he at least has the courage to do it
himself (LC in Jane Doe while Nick goes "kill him and be done with it?)
In my opinion, institutionalized killing is far worse than individualized
killing. At least LC doesn't harvest children so he can feed off of them.
Just some ideas.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:02:24 -0300
From: Stapleton <d7ux@u.......>
Subject: Re: Last Knight Party/Wake
Laurie mentioned she was having a FK Party on the 18th for those in the
NY/NJ area.
I'm having one here in Fredericton, New Brunswick [Canada] (this includes
any FKers living in NB and Maine) also on the 18th. Bring Munchies and be
prepared to stay late [FK is on at 2:00am here]. Party is starting
around 8:00pm. Let me know if your able to come, and I'll give you my
address (for those who don't have it).
Lynn Stapleton
d7ux@u.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:22:07 -0400
From: "l.a. dehaan" <ldehaan@j.......>
Subject: Re: Ger on Highlander
On Fri, 3 May 1996, June Williams wrote:
> > While on one of my excursions to Vancouver, I chanced a visit to Gastown
> >Labs where they edit HL. When asked what my favourite ep. was, I told her it
> >was the one with Ger in it She gave me a copy of the foreign version,
>
> "Chanced a visit" ? methinks there is a bit of backstory to be heard about
> that. How WAS the foreign version ? It was an excellent episode, and one
One of the supervising editors of the show banks at the branch that my
Aunt works at. My Aunt just asked her for a favour and I got a tour of
Highlander editing suite. Did you know that a guy draws all of that
lightning. (-%
The foreign version is the Canadian version (three or so minutes longer
than the American version). What they do is create the Canadian version,
then go back and cut three minutes for Americans.
> that I hadn't seen till last night. WOW. I was also amused at the fact that
> the character's SO was named Jannette. Does anyone know if Mr B has appeared
I know, his crying for Janette will never change. (-:
> in a HL episode ?
No, he has yet to be on HL, but he's been on everything else.
Lesley
=-=-=-=
"You're not anybody...unless you're on TV."--Susanne "To Die For"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:30:46 -0400
From: Marf Shopmyer <aa108460@d.......>
Subject: Partee!
Blood will tell tomorrow!
Any fans in the area are welcome to my Derby Party. Bring a dollar.
E-mail me directly for details!
marf
Greenwood, SC
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:00:54 -0400
From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@p.......>
Subject: Re: Vampire Killing
On May 03, 1996 09:44:20, 'Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>' wrote:
>Cats do what they do because they're cats, and they don't have the
>intelligence to think about concepts like right and wrong or good and
>evil, or any concepts, for that matter. Humans have the intelligence to
>think about things like that and so do vampires.
My cat always looks me straight in the eye as she shreds my sneakers. I
admire that kind of honesty.
I also admire the honesty of a vampire who admits his/her nature as a
predator. Especially one who, having come to terms with that side of
his/her nature, is able to refrain from predatory habits due to the
necessities of secrecy and/or some form of personal moral judgement.
I do not hold much respect for a vampire who claims to be 'above' such
predatory instincts, yet uses the power of the predator for his/her own
gain when necessary. However, I do respect the willingness to try to fight
one's instincts and triumph above them.
Cows are pretty creatures, herbiverous, don't harm anyone particularly.
Yet we humans kill 'em for meat. To say nothing of the legions of humans
who hunt animals for sport. Do any of us *really* know what degree animals
are capable of feeling emotion & pain?
I submit that we, as prey, are no more capable of understanding the
motivations of those one rung above us on the food chain than cows can
comprehend why we kill them for food, instead of merely taking the milk &
leaving 'em alone.
To pass judgement on another being without having walked the proverbial
kilometer in their moccasins is the purest hypocrisy. There are things
that we, as humans, just can't know. Until I've been a cow, or a vampire,
I'm not going to make any decisions on what is "right" or "wrong" from
their point of view.
Just my point-oh-two.
--
Jamie M.R. (immajer@p.......)
Asst. Listowner, FORKNI-L/FKFIC-L/FKSPOILR
SFK Webgoddess, SKL Mommy, Conv. of the CoS, V.O.T.T.S.O.A.S.
I'M NOT HOME. LEAVE A MESSAGE AT THE BEEP.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:07:33 +0000
From: Rachel Fulton <rfulton@d.......>
Subject: Re: Jane Doe --the new off topic
Hey Loose Cannon (and everyone else),
You are right that both interpretations are possible.. When I think
about it, both have merit. I love looking at things on various
levels. This is one of the things I love about FK.... it doesn't
give you all the answers, but makes you think! I'm glad to join this
list, because all of you seem to enjoy conversing about interesting
topics (and my favorite FK!) If I occasionally commit a foepaw (sp?)
please let me kow, as I have never joined a List before! Thanks! =)
Rach
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:55:57 -0400
From: Lisa Knust <lmknus@m.......>
Subject: Bringing across
Yeah, yeah, I know I'm supposed to be studying, but I just had to
share this.
Last night I finally coerced two of my friends to watch FK. I
showed them Dark Knight and their reactions weren't bad, but it wasn't
exactly the most successful evening. My roommate in particular laughed
her head off at Nick's wonderful flying scene and was very, VERY unhappy
with the fact that in the warehouse scene Nick has blood on his shirt one
minute and it is gone in the following shots. She also was a bit
incredulous about Alyce's being brought across. Her exact reaction I
think was "It was pretty good, but there were just some things..." Any
helpful hints would be appreciated (private please as I'm nomail).
Oh well! I guess now I know how Nick feels when he can't bring
people across correctly. :)
Lisa Knust
lmknus@m....... (until 5/8 when I return to my computer-less home <sob>)
"For the Blood is the Life..."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:54:40 +0000
From: Rachel Fulton <rfulton@d.......>
Subject: Re: Vampire Killing
Jaime (and everyone else),
Thank you for your insightful statement. I agree with you about the
hypocrasy of people who cliam moral superiority before living the
lives of others. One thing that I love about FK is the fact that it
deals with issues like these =) Nick's moral dilemma (sp?) makes a
very insightful storyline.
Philisophically yours,
Rachel J. Fulton
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 11:05:11 +0000
From: Rachel Fulton <rfulton@d.......>
Subject: Re: Vampire Killing
We (all carnivoures) kill to survive. We use the meat to nourish our
bodys. If we appreciate the gift (essentially) that the cow,
chicken, etc gives us, then I believe it is justifiable. This is a
very grey area. Killing for anything else is wrong. (pleasure,
etc.) This is of course my opinion, and I do not claim to have
exclusive knowledge of morality..... Rachel Jeanette Fulton
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:15:12 -0500
From: Mad Hatter <cli7@s.......>
Subject: Killing Hypothesis; do NOT read! just a rant!
Given:
"killing" is not intrinsically evil;
murder is evil;
evil is subjective;
subjectivitiy is a cultural/individual function.
right/wrong = good/evil
humans are omnivorous--hence are biologically adapted to
consuming plant and animal material.
some humans eat both;
some humans eat only plants [or animals];
both types of humans kill to survive;
is *to live* = *evil* ?
vampires consume blood--any type will suffice for survival,
hence they can consume human or animal blood.
some vampires consume may consume both [exempli gratia Nick];
some vampires consume only animal [carouches] or only human.
both types of vampires kill to survive;
*to live* = *evil* ?
Hypothesis and problems:
there are two determinants in the nature [evil or not]
of the act of killing:
1.reason [survival or pleasure or self-preservation--necessity]
2.method [for pleasure, to dispatch, and ultimately motivating reason]
war=for direct self-preservation--not evil
for gains of territory, etc.--evil
for theo-cultural reasons that define another group as lesser--evil
method: mutilation, rape, pillage--evil
shoot and go--depends
is war murder?
vampires=to eat, for survival--not evil
for pleasure [Jeannette: "i can't explain it...it's better than <sex>"]
--evil [not exact quote...don't remember!]
for self-preservation--not evil
method: well, only a couple methods anyway__ draining for food--not evil
cows=to eat, omnivorous nature--not evil
anything else--probably evil
deer=to hunt, trophies--evil
to consume, omnivorous nature--not evil
hunting for food not = to courage if necessary
Conclusion:
food chain is NOT subject to human subjective perspectives of good/evil;
those acts of killing that can be considered *evil* hinge upon interpretation
of the two moral determinants _
<click!>
[rant mode very, very off]
* * *
"The idea of a Supreme Being who creates a world in
which one creature is designed to eat another in order
to subsist, and then pass a law saying 'Thou shalt not
kill,' is so monstrously, immeasurably, bottomlessly
absurd that I am at a loss to understand how mankind
has entertained or given it house room all this long."
--Peter De Vries
-mad hatter
<cli7@s.......>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 11:21:17 +0000
From: Rachel Fulton <rfulton@d.......>
Subject: Re: Kindred vs FK
This "Kindred" thing is really making me mad!! Too many good shows
are being cancelled to the 90210's of the world. No one wants to
think anymore! If you want to see anything good, you must stay up
until 2 AM. (pacific time) I have never seen "Kindred" but if what
you say is true I never want to.
Rachel Jeanette Fulton
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:57:54 +0000
From: Rachel Fulton <rfulton@d.......>
Subject: Re: Last Knight Party/Wake
I, and any other fans of FK on the west coast will be with you in
spirit on the day of mourning. I regret that I will not be able to
make the trip across the country. I hope you all have fun!
Rach
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:24:52 -0500
From: Mad Hatter <cli7@s.......>
Subject: Re: Vampire Killing
At 11:05 AM 5/3/96 +0000, you wrote:
<snip>
> If we appreciate the gift (essentially) that the cow,
>chicken, etc gives us, then I believe it is justifiable. This is a
>very grey area.
<snip>
>..... Rachel Jeanette Fulton
:)
like the native cultures---a society that is innately tied to
nature itself, unlike the europaternal theologies this modern
world has descended from;
before and after a hunt, many native cultures perform a number
of rituals or ceremonies to thank the Great Spirit and apologize
to the animal itself--such religious ceremonies are inherently
a part of the culture, unlike the separation of "morality" and the
natural world in europaternal theologies;
such a separationis obviously going to create problems in
the relationship between humans and the environment.
there is no separation in native theologies; the animal is the gift,
and they *know* that each animal has a spirit, and within the
context of their culture, *killing*--even the individual killing of
an animal with a spirit--is justifiable, because in their society,
the animal as a brother/sister spirit, understands the necessity
behind killing--and life goes on_
-madhat
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 11:26:44 +0000
From: Rachel Fulton <rfulton@d.......>
Subject: Re: Kindred vs FK
Yes, FK fans have a culture of their own.... Thanks for welcoming me
to your list.... It gets very lonely out here on the West coast where
no one has even heard of FK =( I will really miss it.
Rachel Jeanette Fulton
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:31:18 -0500
From: Bea Quindlen <ocaoin@e.......>
Subject: GWD Movie
FYI: Hush Little Baby with Geraint Wyn Davies will be on tonight (Friday) May 3
on USA at 9 pm (east coast). It will be shown again on May 11 at 4 pm (east
coast).
Quinn
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:51:48 -0500
From: Mad Hatter <cli7@s.......>
Subject: killing....and revenge
in my last few rants about killing, i just realized that i left out
one crucial human [or vampire] element: the concept of revenge!
~mad hatter <cli7@s.......>
* * *
"show me a nation whose national beverage is beer,
and i'll show you advanced toilet technology." -paul hawkins
* * *
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:52:53 -0500
From: Mad Hatter <cli7@s.......>
Subject: oops!
i sent that sucker [killing & revenge] before i could continue
and actually rant about it. but that's okay, i think my rant
power is gone. oh well!
IGNORE previous sucker and this one, thonk yew~
-madda hatta
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 15:08:05 -0400
From: Cousin Candice <winter@j.......>
Subject: Parting is such sweet sorrow...
Summer farewells stink.
So in protest, I'm going on Digest. I'll be on Compuserve should anyone
feel the need for interesting late-night conversation (reads: Kindling
Bashing..etc..)
ObFK: Someone PLEASE post a copy of the last ep. schedule over there?
Yours,
Candice -obsessed by memory, befriended by desire, Cousin by choice
Toreador by default
winter@j.......
=========================================================================
Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
