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FORKNI-L Digest - 9 Feb 2005 to 10 Feb 2005 (#2005-40)

Thu, 10 Feb 2005

There are 14 messages totalling 443 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Prayers: left hand surgery
  2. modern vamps/buffy (2)
  3. FK/Buffy (4)
  4. FK Alumni award nominee
  5. Today's Birthday:  February 10
  6. Admin: Watch Quote lengths, please!
  7. Did Stonetree know? (3)
  8. Questionnaire on the fantastic


Date:    Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:10:01 -0500
From:    Cheryl P <fknight420@c.......>
Subject: Prayers: left hand surgery

Sadly, surgery has been moved to the 28th because of the pending
snowstorm coming my way.  Another two feet, oh well.  Thanks for the
kind words.
Cheryl / fknight420@c.......

Sense what you have,
Don't trade a treasure
for an empty box.


Date:    Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:01:29 -0600
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@c.......>
Subject: Re: modern vamps/buffy

> Karen Reincke wrote:

> I think somewhere in FK it was mentioned that vampires have
> excellent memories.

I'm not sure if it's in canon or in fanfic that vampires have eidetic

 If so, this would explain how they would
> adjust to modernity.  If you could see something once and
> remember it, you could do it.

The thing is, vampires live in the ordinary world and at the same
speed as we do. They don't pop out of the past suddenly without time
to assimilate the current culture. They learn the same as we do, just
by ordinary exposure to what happens. My mother was born in
1918---that doesn't mean that she has a hard time learning about
refrigerator/freezers because when she was small her family had an
icebox and she remembers the Italian iceman selling blocks of ice off
the back of a horse-drawn wagon. She has lived through the development
of the modern refrigerator. Or an even more extreme example---from
fabric-covered biplanes to the space shuttle!

The fact that vampires have excellent memories means that perhaps they
learn specifics faster than we do, and don't forget them over time.
Imagine learning a foreign language when you don't forget any new
vocabulary, or how a verb is declined. Or, in the case of computers,
you don't forget your DOS commands just because you don't have to use
it much any more. (I used to be a whiz at DOS; now I have to think for
a few minutes to remember how to move files or do other simple tasks.
I sure could use an eidetic memory in that case!)

Nancy Kaminski


Date:    Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:32:26 -0500
From:    Brooksie <a11ebrook@a.......>
Subject: Re: FK/Buffy

At 06:46 AM 2/9/2005, Amanda wrote:
> All of the FK vamps seemed to have an aura (for lack of
> a better word) of history around them.  They fit right in
> with the modern world, but there was a worldlyness about them.

I think a lot of that was due to the actors.  Ger and Nigel approached their
roles with more mature viewpoints, IMHO, because (1) their characters were
written as 800 and 2000 yr old characters; (2) their classical theater
training gave them the chops to be able to play their characters from a
noble, worldly POV; and (3) they were in their 30s not their 20s.  Also, FK
was doing flashbacks every episode that reinforced the existence of Nick's
and LaCroix's long lives both in the minds of the viewers as well as the

But I don't mean to disparage the BtVS actors - some of them were excellent
in their roles.  BtVS, I think, was supposed to be hip and now in its
approach - the patois and the clothes reinforced the image of being very
current.  Flashbacks were rare, and the vampires pasts were rarely

At 04:14 AM 2/8/2005, Mickey wrote:
> I wonder amongst the Buffy/FK fans, if you were a Nick
> fan, did you gravitate towards the angsty Angel and are
> LaCroix fans more favorable towards Spike?

I am a Nick fan, and I was immediately attracted to Angel from his first
appearance at the end of the first show.  I think it is the angst.  But to
paraphrase a politician... I know Nick, and Angel is no Nick!

I mostly fell in love with the writing on the show, all the fascinating
characters, and (*yeah*) the consistency of all the storylines!

At 02:38 PM 2/5/2005, Julia Kocich wrote:
> Given that none of the relationships in the Buffyverse ended well, I
> wonder which FK characters might match up (albeit temporarily) with
> Buffyverse characters?

My suggestion is Buffy and Schanke - totally platonic, of course.  Schank
would be the father figure that she so desparately needs, the mature male
figure that grounds her to reality.

Julia B. (aka Brooksie), w. Allie's Brook and Bernardo
Forever Knightie Crusader, Proud War 12 Leader
Les Chevaliers de la Nuit
"And a screamin' fine ride [he] is, too!"


Date:    Wed, 9 Feb 2005 23:32:03 -0800
From:    Karen Reincke <kaylagaylestories@y.......>
Subject: Re: modern vamps/buffy

That's what I mean.  I suppose they learn quickly because they need to
assimilate themselves into society so they are not found out for what they are.  Also,
I would think immortality would be a great time to study things as well.
Imagine how many college courses and such you could take in eternity.  I wonder if
anyone knows specifically if it was ever mentioned in canon.

Also, Nancy you are lucky to have a resource such as your mom.  Unfortunatly my
grandparents died when I was younger so I never did get a chance to talk to
them about things.  The only time I ever did was right before my Grandfather
Arthur died.  I was visiting him briefly and came upon some photos of him in WW1 and
also driving an old A and P wagon.  He told me a few things about growing up in
NYC in the early 1900's (he was born in 1898) and it was fascinating.  I only
wish I had him around now.


Date:    Thu, 10 Feb 2005 04:19:13 EST
From:    MRKKaye@a.......
Subject: FK Alumni award nominee

The Genie Award nominees came out this week  (Canadian Films)

Best supporting actor:
Gary Farmer, Twist; Brendan Fehr, Sugar; Bruce  Greenwood, Being Julia; Jean
Lapointe, Le Dernier tunnel (The Last  Tunnel); Kyle MacLachlan, Touch of Pink


Date:    Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:08:31 -0600
From:    eowyn23@j.......
Subject: Today's Birthday:  February 10

Hi Y'all!

Today is the birthday of:   Michelle Loo    loomd@e.......

You may send birthday greetings to Michelle at the above email address.
Please NOT to the list!

Others who share this birthday:
Roberta Flack, Rhythm and Blues Singer
Leontyne Price, Opera Soprano
Robert Wagner, TV/Movie Actor
Lon Jr. Chaney, TV/Movie Actor
Jimmy Durante, Comedian

Significant events on this date:
1763, France ceded Canada to England under the Treaty of Paris, which
ended the French and Indian War.
1870, the Y.W.C.A. (Young Women's Christian Association) was founded in
New York City.
1879, 125 years ago, the first electric arc light was used in a
California Theater.
1957, the styrofoam cooler was invented.

I hope you have a very Happy Birthday, Michelle!

If you would like to be added to the birthday announcements, please send
your name, birthdate (no year needed) and email address to me,
eowyn23@j......., privately, and I'll be glad to add you.

eowyn23@j....... or eowyn@w.......
GWDFC, FK X-Stitcher, Proud Survivor of FK Fic Wars 8-11, Texas Knight
Dreamers, Knighties List Owner, Keeper of the FK Birthday List


Date:    Thu, 10 Feb 2005 07:27:49 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: FK/Buffy

In a message dated 2/10/05 1:26:21 AM Central Standard Time,
a11ebrook@a....... writes:

>  (2) their classical theater
> training gave them the chops to be able to play their characters from a
> noble, worldly POV;

As I recall, James Marsters (Spike) is also classically trained. I may be
remembering the wrong actor though.

and (3) they were in their 30s not their 20s.

I believe James is around my age, and I'm 40 (again, I may be remembering

I think the FK vampires at BtVS vampires are just different types. In FK, the
vampires mingle with the mortal world more. In BtVS most of them don't seem
to except for meals (there's other moments of exception like Angel and Spike
both mentioning theater before they were living more in the mortal world) -
Angel and then Spike were thrust back into the mortal world.

The BtVS vampires are definitely evil demons, the FK vampires don't
necessarily seem to be, at least not in the same sense that BtVS vampires are.



Date:    Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:39:30 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Admin: Watch Quote lengths, please!

The discussion on the contrasts between Buffy and FK is fascinating, but we're
getting a good many posts with  the whole answered post quoted. Please remember
that Forkni-l has a strict limit: four lines from the previous post.  If you
have another point to answer, then you quote that four lines.

I think some of the overquotes were from answers that were meant to go offlist.
Please check your to: line before you press send.


McLisa, who liked Buffy up until the 5th season (too dark and a time when my
life was quite dark enough, thanks, but never cared for Angel as a separate show.
I was a Spike fan, too. This probably does correlate with my Cousinship.



Date:    Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:03:56 EST
From:    Robin Tidwell <Robinchristine79@a.......>
Subject: Re: FK/Buffy

In a message dated 2/10/2005 7:28:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Libratsie@a....... writes:

"As I  recall, James Marsters (Spike) is also classically trained. I may  be
remembering the wrong actor though."
James was trained at Juliard, but not for long. He got kicked out.

"I believe James is around my age, and I'm 40 (again, I may  be remembering

He's over 40. He's 42 or 43. :D



Date:    Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:12:27 -0500
From:    Mickey <LCAMickey@c.......>
Subject: Re: FK/Buffy

Libratsie@a....... wrote:

>>As I recall, James Marsters (Spike) is also classically trained. I may be
>>remembering the wrong actor though.
You have the right actor. Apparently the actors used to gather at Josh
Whedon's and do Shakespeare readings for fun too. There had been a rumor
that Marsters had received funding to produce a new Hamlet movie. I
haven't heard anything about it lately.

>>I believe James is around my age, and I'm 40 (again, I may be remembering
Marsters is, but I believe they made the character young just as they
did with David's Angel.

>>I think the FK vampires at BtVS vampires are just different types. In FK, the
>>vampires mingle with the mortal world more.
>>There did seem to be more of a separation and the Buffy/Angel world also
incorporated a great deal of other demons, while FK was limited to vamps and
>>The BtVS vampires are definitely evil demons, the FK vampires don't
>>necessarily seem to be, at least not in the same sense that BtVS vampires
The whole canon was different with the concept of a demon actually
inhabiting the body and as opposed to the way FK looked at it.


Date:    Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:27:24 -0800
From:    Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y.......>
Subject: Did Stonetree know?

I can't remember if this has been discussed before or not.  But I was just
In the first season, especially Dark Knight, there were times when I wondered
if Stonetree knew or at least suspected about Nick.
I don't think it would have bothered him, and he probably would never have said
Did anyone else get this feeling?


"This thing... man... whatever it is...evil may have created it, left its mark
on it, but evil does not rule it.  So I cannot kill it."  - Gabriel Van Helsing


Date:    Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:47:54 -0500
From:    Tim Phillips <tim.phillips@a.......>
Subject: Re: Did Stonetree know?

> In the first season,  there were times when I wondered if Stonetree knew
about Nick.
> Did anyone else get this feeling?
        I've had it too.
        I'm not sure that Stonetree thought Nick was a vampire... but I do
get a distinct impression at times that he thinks something "very
odd" is going on.
        The "religious beliefs" of native tribes on this continent I know
often included a concept of "spirit beings" .... things that looked
human but were somehow....inhuman?.....  Not necessarily evil... but
definitely operating with their own agendas and from a realm we could
call otherwordly.
        I've wondered if Stonetree had a concept like that that he believed
in.  That he saw aspects of Nick's behavior and felt that Nick was
"not of this earth" in that sense....
        I've also entertained the idea that Stonetree was "simply" like
Schanke... a sharp detective who is paid to find patterns and starts
to put all the pieces of Nick together and realizes there are missing
pieces to what should be a simple puzzle.  And starts questioning
what those pieces are...



Date:    Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:06:30 -0600
From:    DP001 <DP001@c.......>
Subject: Re: Did Stonetree know?

>  I wondered if Stonetree knew or at least suspected about Nick

I don't think he did.
There were many people who thought Nick was weird
kinda excentric

Some people are called vampires, not that they drink blood
just becuse they wear the Goth make-up & stay up all night

That one EP, with the hunter, he figured it out.
But he decided Nick was good
so didn't stake him

But if anyone had really susppected he was a blood-drinking
Bela Lugosi type vamp they probally would have called the army
or attacked nick with a cross of something

Then Nick would have to move on
He'd get in his car & drive away
while they play that sad walking away song at the end
of Incredible Hulk


Date:    Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:18:11 -0500
From:    Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......>
Subject: Questionnaire on the fantastic

I want to thank all the people on the list who responded to my appeal
for help with the questionnaires for my Ph.D. research..  About fifty
people got in touch.  As a result, about three quarters of the books
on the list now have enough response for the averages to be reasonably
stable.  This is important, because I need the figures to be reliable
before I can put them on a graph, or use them in the further
statistical analysis.  Before you all helped me, fewer than a quarter
of the books had reached this level.  So you really did help!

Of course, there're still those books that haven't made the cut-off.
If anyone out there would still like to help -- maybe you were really
busy before, but now you have time.  Or anyone who had fun doing the
questionnaire -- would you like to do a second one?  (It will, of
course, be a different one from last time.)
    I'm particularly looking for people who like children's/YA fantasy
("The Dark is Rising", "Five Children and It", "Tom's Midnight
Garden"), adult SF/fantasy ("A Princess of Mars", "The Doomsday Book",
"Fatherland", Randall Garrett's Lord Darcy stories),  older works
("Utopia", "The Golden Ass", "Tristram Shandy", "The Eve of St
Agnes"), and Rosemary Sutcliff's Arthurian story "Sword at Sunset",
and Art Spiegelmann's "Maus" .  These will all have to be dropped if I
can't get the numbers up.

But as for Forever Knight:  it was in a very dicey position; but all
of you who did the questionnaire definitely brought the numbers way up
on it.  (Of course!)  So it's safely "advanced to the next level", so
to speak.



End of FORKNI-L Digest - 9 Feb 2005 to 10 Feb 2005 (#2005-40)

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