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FORKNI-L Digest - 12 Jan 2005 to 13 Jan 2005 (#2005-13)

Thu, 13 Jan 2005

There are 18 messages totalling 638 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. lists and beliefs (4)
  2. Season 2 DVDs
  3. FK DVD's (2)
  4. delete key + stories i like (2)
  5. Apology to the list
  6. A LaCroix moment... (4)
  7. playing all regions of dvd
  8. Admin: re: Lists and beliefs
  9. Please help with my thesis
 10. A More Permanent Hell commentary


Date:    Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:18:32 -0800
From:    Michele C <mobody_62@y......>
Subject: Re: lists and beliefs

Ummm... ditto.

I'd like to add the delete key is a wonderful thing,
and I use it often.

--- Julia Kocich <jkocich@g.......> wrote:

> If (big "if" <g>) anyone has read this far down, I
> invite whoever wishes to to post their own "DNP" (do

> not pray)statement to the list.


Date:    Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:25:41 -0500
From:    Stephanie Kellerman <stequina@i.......>
Subject: Re: lists and beliefs

How off topic is this becoming?  Or is it?

I will admit I have only had a chance to go to one, but I guess you have
never been to any of the Gertherings to meet some of the fantastic
people on this list.  I have also met several people from other fandoms
where we have gotten together not at a con, but just to meet and have
fun. Of course I haven't had to meet some of these people face to face
to realize what good friends they are.  In other words, they are no
longer considered  mere "acquaintances".

I have found more friends on the lists I am on than I have found in
person. I have had the good fortune to meet some of them in this fandom
and other fandoms.  These lists have become my "virtual" home.  And a
lot of the people I have met 'only' online and also in person that I
would have never met if the internet didn't exist have become good
friends.  I have even made several trips to California and Italy with a
friend that I met on the Internet.

My life has been greatly expanded because of all my online friends (not
mere acquaintances).

Julia Kocich wrote:

I, Julia Kocich, hereby aver and attest that, in the interests of
listserver space and an old-fashioned sense of propriety, I shall
never request prayers from strangers (or acquaintances) on Forkni-l.


Michele C wrote:

>Ummm... ditto.
>I'd like to add the delete key is a wonderful thing,
>and I use it often.
>--- Julia Kocich <jkocich@g.......> wrote:
>>If (big "if" <g>) anyone has read this far down, I
>>invite whoever wishes to to post their own "DNP" (do
>>not pray)statement to the list.




Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 2005 00:11:36 +0000
From:    Tracy Gooding <t.gooding@u.......>
Subject: Re: Season 2 DVDs

This is for everyone out there in DVD Region 2 Land...

Has anyone tried the season 2 DVDs on a multiregion DVD player or (re-set)
computer yet?  I know some DVDs are getting very region-protected these
days... please tell me these are fine so I can order them.

Tracy G

Favourite sig seen this week: Dyslexics have more fnu


Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:16:09 +1030
From:    DOROTHY SIMPSON <jennii35@i.......>
Subject: FK DVD's

 I am in Australia and I have them and they play fine for me......Dot


Date:    Wed, 12 Jan 2005 20:34:23 EST
From:    Sierra Mayberry <Bluefaeryknight@a.......>
Subject: delete key + stories i like

I totally agree with what Julia said, obviously, but i really want to point
to one part of her post, "It seems illogical that this list discourages talk
about the personal lives and travails of the FK actors, while allowing
listmembers to discuss their personal lives and travails."  Personally, i'd
like to see more about the FK actors.  Is there a list for that?  Maybe i'm on
the wrong one.

Everyone keeps saying to use the delete key and no one has said this:
Sometimes, this list makes a lot of e-mails so some of us have to be on digest.
Well, you can't just delete the e-mail if you don't like the subject line--you
have to scroll past it.  That's as annoying as people who over-quote.  And if
you have to delete it, that takes time too.  Let's be realistic, as the
requests increase, the deleting will get time-consuming.

Why can't we have a topic for prayer requests?  The updates could go to that
too.  It isn't like they are infrequent--they have gotten numerous recently
and will probably continue to do so.  No offense intended to the person with the
leg problem who posted today--that condition sounds bad :(  If we had a topic
like that then we could subscribe to it or not, at least that would give us
an option.  Like for those who didn't want to get the war posts--it would be
nice if it were optional.

I never answered that question what kinds of stories i like.  I love adult UF
stories and alternate universe stories.  Something that i would like to see
more of is stories that are set in the future and/or current time.



Date:    Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:52:09 -0800
From:    Bast Ankhsenet <bast_ankhsenet@y......>
Subject: Re: FK DVD's

*grumblegrumblewhine* I don't have them yet! Please keep posting so I can live
vicariously through you all till next month (I hope) when I can get my own


ps for the MERCs out there who are curious, I STILL haven't had my back surgery
yet which is why I can't afford the DVDs right now. I had to cancel my preorder
cause I couldn't afford it. *sigh* oh well, I will get them soon!

pss. to all who think I'm whining and such or shooting off to get sympathy, I'm
not. I KNOW I could be MUCH worse off than I am. I'm just a bit whiney and
cranky (Have been since mid-Oct when this happened). I am quite aware that I am
very lucky,  if the herniation (sp?) had been more violent I might very well have
been in a wheelchair for awhile or permanantly. So believe me when I say I'm
NOT complaining, just stating the facts. With the all the ruckus (though quite
toned down and polite I must say) going on I felt the need to state the above.


Date:    Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:50:47 -0800
From:    Liz the Lucky <lizthelucky@c.......>
Subject: Apology to the list

It seems to me, that the lastest list problem started when I asked for
prayers for Ko-Koi. I'd like to apologize for that selfishness. I'm very
sorry I caused so much of a clammer. Won't happen again.

Hugs and Kisses,
Liz the Lucky             lizthelucky@c.......
Merc House Mommy


Date:    Wed, 12 Jan 2005 21:11:46 -0600
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@c.......>
Subject: Re: lists and beliefs

Julia K wrote:

> I, Julia Kocich, hereby aver and attest that, in the interests of
> listserver space and an old-fashioned sense of propriety, I shall
> never request prayers from strangers (or acquaintances) on Forkni-l.

<g> I'm in your camp on this one!

> I don't consider Internet lists to be "families." I tend to know who
> the members of my family are, and I assume so do you.

Julia makes some very valid points. A list is a large, unruly beast
with a great number of perfectly wonderful people on it----as well as
some people who, shall we say, can be considerably less than
wonderful.  I consider many of these people
acquaintances, in the sense that I recognize their names and some of
their points of view on list topics, just as if I had met them in a
crowded ballroom or at a company cocktail party. With these people I
am perfectly happy to chat about  generalities, the weather, politics
(in a very mild way) or other topics of interest----but I do not wish
to burden them with my personal unhappinesses or traumas. That's for
people with whom I'm actually close.

I've made very good friends through this list, and have met many list
members at LCA, Gertherings, and other FK-related events. I've gone on
vacations with several members, stayed with others. I *know* these
people, I've met them personally, and I trust them with my personal
information in private emails, phone calls, and IM chats. That's a far
cry from laying my personal life out in public for all to see.

An aspect of this that hasn't been mentioned so far is that it's
possible for really bad people to do nasty things based on personal
information. Perhaps this is far-fetched, but the internet is a wild,
woolly place and there are nasty people out there looking for the
chance to do bad things.

It's like what happened when we were at my father's funeral---I asked
a friend to stay in our house, and she reported that there were three
hang-up phone calls and several cars passed the house and lingered
suspiciously in front (we live in a very quiet backwater neighborhood
so this stuff is very noticeable). Yes, I'm convinced that thieves
were poised to rob us when we were all occupied with the funeral. The
public notice in the obituaries was the invitation to them, just like
announcing your personal life is to the internet.

To sum up, I'm agreeing with our esteemed ListCobra and trying to make
the point that, on a large list like this one, a certain amount of
restraint might be a good thing when it comes to announcing personal

Besides, I can't help picturing someone asking Lacroix to share
something personal in public. I can see him glower and say in that
quiet, menacing voice, "I do NOT share."

Well, neither do I. <g>

Nancy Kaminski


Date:    Wed, 12 Jan 2005 23:16:12 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: delete key + stories i like

Well, I have to speak up too. I don't mind the prayer requests at all, or the
little personal notes about people's life, as long as that isn't what the
list entirely becomes.

Sure, we have other lists for that... We also have other lists to discuss
LaCroix, Nick, Screed, Vachon, Schanke... does that mean we shouldn't discuss
them here?

As for discussion the actors' lives, did I not, with one actor's permission,
recently announce a very serious surgery he was having? Did we not read here
that Ger has family who might have been in the tsunami area? The rule is that
authorized individuals CAN make such announcements. Just like one fan should
not announce another fan's personal crisis without permission, someone who
isn't authorized can't announce private info about the actors.

Where is the line drawn? If we hear of the death of a fellow fan, we can't
announce it?

HOWEVER, and I want to stress this, one MUST be careful on-line as some have
pointed out. ALthough I do feel I have actual friends on this list I've never
met in person (and many I have), I was the one bitten by an alleged FK fan -
very hard - when I was a guest at a convention. I've had some scary run-ins
with comic book fans.

No one is forcing anyone to post personal news or ask for prayers. That's not
everyone's cup of tea. But neither is reading about conventions or plays they
will never be able to afford, DVDs they never could afford to buy, FK
characters they absolutely can't stand, and so forth.

I want to point out some of the very good things that have come from someone
not necessarily asking for prayers, but maybe just mentioning a crisis they
were having:

We've helped someone who lost EVERYTHING in a Florida fire.... To the point
she later asked us to stop helping her as she had "enough" to last quite a

A woman in an abusive situation was rescued by FK fans (this was just briefly
mentioned in a cry for help, and I later heard someone did help)

When my ex left me, it was an FK fan across the country who called me and
stayed on the phone until a RL FK fan (and friend) could get to my house to just
be with me. Another FK fan brought an "FK party" to my house the next weekend
to keep my mind off the situation. There were many other FK connections who
went out of their way to cheer me up.

When there's been natural disasters (or, sadly, major man made ones) that
have affected FK fans, the outpouring has been wonderful.

When an FK actor's surgery was mentioned here in appropriately vague details,
i was afraid I'd have to deal with a flood of requests for more information.
Instead, they sent brief "get well" e-mails, asked for suggestions for gifts,
as well on checking on ME. Believe me, blew my mind the caring that was shown.
No one asked anything inappropriate or for more details. It made me feel
really good to be an FK fans compared to some other on-line groups I'm active

There's no way we are going to all agree on this subject. So, ultimately, the
decision is in the hands of the two who run the lists, and do a wonderful job
doing so.

I do realize many people don't want to share such personal info with the
masses, so, once again, I invite those who want prayers or good vibes to join
Fkfanshug at yahoogroups, or e-mail me the request and I'll forward them. I
actually think this is probably more appropriate than announcing it here - but,
there's nothing saying you can't. The list is TOTALLY multi-religious. We don't
care if you have a faith or belief system, or what it is.

So, we'll agree to disagree as we do on many things <g>



Date:    Wed, 12 Jan 2005 23:47:51 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: A LaCroix moment...

I didn't have just a FK moment, I had a LaCroix moment.

Which is much more old and powerful than any old FK moment.

In fact, a co-worker, coming across some old paperwork from an inspection he
conducted, walked past my cubicle saying, "I remember THIS one! He thought he
was MUCH too powerful to follow the law...."

I didn't realize LaCroix owned a trailer park.



Date:    Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:38:32 -0500
From:    Cheryl P <fknight420@c.......>
Subject: Re: lists and beliefs

I too, have never met anyone personally from the list, but i do call
some of you friends.  I believe the list a great place to chat and pray
with good thoughts.  I don't know what a Ger-athering is.  But this list
of friends is a huge part of my life and I can noit live without it or
the people/friends.  Stay safe.


Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 2005 23:41:04 +1300
From:    Kylie Tucker <kiwisun@i......>
Subject: playing all regions of dvd

>Has anyone tried the season 2 DVDs on a multiregion DVD player or (re-set)
>computer yet?  I know some DVDs are getting very region-protected these
>days... please tell me these are fine so I can order them.

Hi all!

If you are interested in not worrying about dvd regions try this
programme out for size. I have been using it and think its great, but it
comes with a 14 day trial so you can try it first.




Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:02:13 EST
From:    Robin Tidwell <Robinchristine79@a.......>
Subject: Re: A LaCroix moment...

Oh, dear! The image that produces!


In a message dated 1/12/2005 11:50:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Libratsie@a....... writes:

I didn't  realize LaCroix owned a trailer park.


Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:58:45 -0500
From:    Joe LaCour <joelacour@c.......>
Subject: Re: A LaCroix moment...


That does give "Trailer Park Trash" an entirely new meaning....

relurks and puts on asbestos

In a message dated 1/12/2005 11:50:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

>Libratsie@a....... writes:
>I didn't  realize LaCroix owned a trailer park.


Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:04:51 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Admin: re: Lists and beliefs

Answering onlist because I think the issues raised do need addressing and are
of general concern:

Julia K writes in part:

>>It seems illogical that this list discourages talk about the personal
>>lives and travails of the FK actors, while allowing listmembers to
>>discuss their personal lives and travails. But that's the listowner's
>>privilege. It's her list.

Actually, the reason for the non-discussion of personal lives of FK cast and
others connected is that there've been a few cases where unfortunate events in
those lives could have led to flame fests. Also on one occasion,  someone almost
lost a later job because the information got out, wrongly, that the person had
been already been hired. The producers of the later job mistakenly thought the
former FK person was saying this and using it to pressure them. Hence the rule.

As for discussing personal lives and travails onlist, in more than just asking
for moral support, no, we're not supposed to be doing that. I apologize if I
have appeared to approve this. I didn't mean to.

>I am slightly more distressed by a recurring tendency on this list for
>people to take personal disagreements onto the list from private

If the disagreement doesn't pertain to FK somehow, then it shouldn't be onlist.
We're not moderated, since neither Don nor I have the time or desire to do so.
If we were, then personal disagreements wouldn't get here.

>Running to the listowner because somebody complained to YOU about
>something does not seem, to me, to be, well ... seemly. And yes, I do
>understand that there is no genuine "privacy" in e-mail, but there is
>an implicit agreement, or should be, between list and private e-mail.

When this happens, to the best of my memory, I have always explained that there's
nothing I can do about private mail, even if it did originate with something on
Forkni-l.  I'd like to be clear that I don't mean any admin: posts about trying
to be pleasant offlist. I mean I can't do anything about the fact that A is
flaming B offlist about a something A said on Forkni-l.

>If (big "if" <g>) anyone has read this far down, I invite whoever
>wishes to to post their own "DNP" (do not pray) statement to the list.
><Huh? What? Whaddya mean, I'm making trouble? Moi? Nah .... >

LOL, even if I am McLisa ! :) Seriously, Don and I are talking offlist about
what to do.  We may set up a prayer: topic, which people could then opt out of,
just as you can, say, opt out of war: on Fkfic-l.

listowner, Forkni-l


Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:59:47 -0500
From:    Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......>
Subject: Please help with my thesis

Posted with McLisa's permission.

I'm currently working on a Ph.D in English; and, as part of the
research, I'm  running a questionnaire.  However, I've run into a
problem:  not enough responses to run the statistics and draw the
    So far, I've asked members of the International Association for
the Fantastic in the Arts (IAFA).  Nice people -- and a high
proportion of the ones who got the questionnaire in person at their
conference did respond; but I couldn't hand out all that many one by
one.  So I e-mailed.  And found that relatively few people respond to
e-mail questionnaires.  Several requests later, numbers still haven't
reached the level I need.
    Certainly, I have enough info on some of the books/movies/etc.
(e.g. LoR, Dracula), but there are some things that
are only borderline in numbers.  The statistics I want to run, and,
even more, the graphs I hope to draw, depend on having a sufficient
number of items to produce a sufficient number of dots on the graphs
for patterns to emerge.  If there are too many books/movies/etc. that
I have to drop because of low numbers of responses, then the patterns
will be too sketchy to make sense.

So I'm looking for respondents.  And, since one of the jeopardized
list items is our dearly beloved FK (believe it or not!!), it occurred
to me that perhaps some of the FORKNI-L list members would be willing
to help.

    *No personal questions are asked.*
The list has 125 items -- mixed books, movies, TV, folk tales,
comics...you name it.  There is no expectation that anyone will know
all of them.  Anything you don't know you just leave blank.
    Each item is to be evaluated on a scale from 0 to 10 depending on
how far the respondent thinks it is a good(10)/poor(0) example of the
term on the version of the questionnaire they receive.  There are five
versions:  is it fantasy? SF? horror? the fantastic? or realistic
fiction?  (People only get one version of the questionnaire.)
    E.g.:  For the horror questionnaire:  on a scale of 0 to 10, how
far do you think the "Harry Potter" books are an example of horror
fiction?  (For the other questionnaires, substitute "x" for "horror".)

If you are willing to fill out one of the questionnaires, please
contact me *off* list, at gwatson2@rogers.com.  I'll e-mail you a
copy, with full instructions; and you can fill it out and e-mail it

Thanks very much.


Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:55:06 -0500
From:    Emily Lacey <laceyem@b.......>
Subject: Re: A LaCroix moment...

>I didn't realize LaCroix owned a trailer park.

It's not dinner.

It's where he keeps dinner. <G>
Emily Lacey


Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:29:59 -0800
From:    Laura Davies <brightfeather1.geo@y......>
Subject: A More Permanent Hell commentary

Ok, I just finished watching A More Permanent Hell,
complete with commentary... In it, Nigel said that
Forever Knight was the first to do the asteroid bit,
but he's wrong!

<g>  Here's a little bit of trivia.  In 1953, the
original Adventures of Superman series with George
Reeves (I haven't ever found the original airdate)
aired an episode called "Panic In The Sky" (episode
#38) in which an asteroid was to destroy the earth.
In more recent history, Lois and Clark: The New
Adventures of Superman aired an episode entitled "All
Shook Up" (episode #12) that was in homage to "Panic
in the Sky".  "All Shook Up" aired January 2, 1994
while "A More Permanent Hell" aired May 1, 1995, over
a year later.

<g> Not something you would particularily know unless
you're a fan of Lois and Clark as well as Forever
Knight, but still...



End of FORKNI-L Digest - 12 Jan 2005 to 13 Jan 2005 (#2005-13)

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