FORKNI-L

FORKNI-L Digest - 15 May 2003 to 16 May 2003 (#2003-142)

Fri, 16 May 2003

There are 26 messages totalling 767 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. the trouble with mortality (5)
  2. Vampire Memory Loss Challenge (2)
  3. congrads
  4. Demons, Memory Loss, etc (was re: congrads)
  5. King Kong/popcorn scene (4)
  6. Announcing.... (A bit long... it's from Shana)
  7. Kong movie
  8. Nick's tummy
  9. Adm: Attention, AOL subscribers (3)
 10. Admin: Question for AOL digest members
 11. help? (3)
 12. FK Page Moved
 13. FK pages (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 May 2003 18:18:51 -0500
From:    DPHEIL <dpheil@A.......>
Subject: Re: the trouble with mortality

> Has anyone considered the possiblity that living for hundreds of years
> would, even for our vamps who seem to take to it so well, possibly drive one
> a bit... batty?

There are stories  (Twilight zone & other Sci-fi) about people living forever
The first couple centuries are an on-going party
but after that you become a fugitive, you live like a hunted animal
always having to lie, never being able to have a real relationship
with another human being, always haveing to look behind you
and always afraid someone will find out your deep dark secret
They eventually come to think of it as a curse

That's why I think Nick was so happy to have Nat
someone he could talk to, someone he didn't have to hide from
(He didn't show it a whole lot but guys don't show those things)

> it makes it much more understandable why someone like LC, who aims to be hard
> as steel and shut off to his emotions, would seek out companions

Yes, LC is a bit smug, but thats part of his charm

> there's the issue of the person's stomach attempting to
> digest after so long with nothing to do (unless you go by the theory that
> vamps digest their blood-meals. Was this ever made clear on FK?)
> Could they actually eat anything?

The stomch must do something.  The blood would need
to be changed into something their body could handle
Blood is not all the same, there's all kind of types
A+/-  B+/-  O . . . . . (& a bunch of others)
whatever type would have to be changed into something their body could handle
unless the "Vampire virus" has found a way around this
Medical science would love this
They'd love to find a way to avoid rejections & make everyone a universial
doner

> On the other hand, I think you'd have to have extensive knowledge of the
> time period in which you were placing a character to get a good feeling for
> how they might act and think,

This is why I would love to listen to LC give a lecture about his life
I bet there are a few historians who'd love to hear a first hand
account of the last 2000 yrs.
Or meet an 800 yr old relitive, I know some people that are into
geneology that would go nuts with this  (Not that I wouldn't too)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 May 2003 16:40:36 -0700
From:    Emily <emilymhanson@y......>
Subject: Re: Vampire Memory Loss Challenge

Does anyone know what the exact challenge was or where it can be found?

=====
Emily M. Hanson
emilymhanson@y......
http://www.starbase-eprime.us

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 May 2003 16:48:25 -0700
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y......>
Subject: Re: the trouble with mortality

> Has anyone considered the possiblity that living for hundreds of years
> would, even for our vamps who seem to take to it so well, possibly drive one
> a bit... batty?

How do you live 1000 years?  The same way you live 10.  Or one.  You get up, go
about your business, deal with problems, interact with people, think, wonder,
get frustrated, enjoy and then go back to bed.  Seriously, how many people do
you know who live 30, 40 years doing the same thing every day, with very little
variation?  I know quite a few.  What's so different about living 1000?  We
rarely think concretely about anything much more than few days in the past or
the future.  It's a frame of reference that stays with us, no matter our age or
circumstances.  Life is lived NOW.
While Nick or LaCroix may have many more memories and experiences to draw on,
and a lot longer future to look to, they live in the same minutes and hours
everyone else does, doing whatever seems important or interesting at the time,
just like everyone else.  And who knows what'll happen tomorrow?

              -Megan


ps (to Katie)  -- I TOLD YOU TO LEAVE NICK'S KEYS ALONE, YOU TWIT!!


"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 May 2003 18:51:08 -0700
From:    FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@y......>
Subject: Re: congrads

There isn't any demon involvement in FK. That's only
in Buffy. I think. The FK vampires are the way they
are because of that virus and I don't think it really
affects the memory.

Mel


>
> As for the vampires and memory loss.  They do loose
> their memory very slowly because their demon half
> takes over.  They remember but not everything



=====
The trouble with immortality is that it tends to go on forever-unknown
FK:NickNatPacker, Knight of the Cross,Knightie, Natpacker/Highlander:Duncan
Flag-Waver/Due South Fan/Tracker Fan/Angel Fan/Port Charles Fan

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 May 2003 21:55:07 EDT
From:    Sierra Mayberry <BlueFaeryMagick@a.......>
Subject: Re: the trouble with mortality

I never heard of the memory challenge until nancy told me in a private e-mail
about it last night...funny that it's a bit similar to what i'm doing in my
story.  I also never heard of the 'if they only knew' challenge until after i
wrote the first few scenes of my story.  It's like i'm trying to do a few
challenges together--haha!  There's a lot that happens in my story, but to
me, the running theme is Nick's relationship with his sons, because that's
what i keep coming back to--Nick dealing with them.

I've read a lot of fic, (no wars, and just the 'if they only knew' challenge
responses - after i found out it existed). I've never read a story with Nick
having sons that he didn't just bring across in present time.  In mine, he
brought them across in 1550 Greece--it's just they didn't live with him from
'89 - '99.  (to explain why they won't in the show lol)  Has anyone done a
story where he has a close relationship with some children he made a long
time ago?

The only story i remember reading where Nick brought someone across in
present time was 'A taste of black velvet' by marcia tucker (i think that's
right).  That story was soooo good *grin*  But that's all i've seen on that
topic.  With the exception of Nick bringing across a doctor in one of
Jarvinia's stories, but i don't know if she has posted that one or not.
*shrugs*

I remember in 'Love you to Death'--in the flashback, LaCroix says to these
two vampires, 'We finally have our Nicholas back'. (something like that).  So
as far as the show goes...maybe that was Nick's sons haha! (talk about
grasping at straws to try to stick to canon.  But, in my imagination these
two i've made-up are cuter and younger, of course).

If i never said, i don't think, that this is my first fic.  So if the
idea/plot sounds good to you, don't get your hopes too high as, while i do
have people helping me, it is my first attempt ;)


~Sierra

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 May 2003 21:09:03 -0500
From:    Kristin <kris1228@e.......>
Subject: Re: Demons, Memory Loss, etc (was re: congrads)

FK vampires shouldn't be compared with Buffy/Angel. They're nothing like
them. Vampires in those shows are very 2-D... (that's one of the many
reasons why I don't watch them). FK vampires go through a sort of
transformation or "rebirth" as shown in "Near Death." They give their life
to their master vampire for safekeeping and are reborn as a vampire when
they return. That is unless they choose to walk into the light and die as a
mortal. They do not suffer any memory loss.

Hope this sheds some light...
Kristin
http://knightvision.4ever.cc
"When you only have eyes for the Knight..."

> There isn't any demon involvement in FK. That's only
> in Buffy. I think. The FK vampires are the way they
> are because of that virus and I don't think it really
> affects the memory.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 May 2003 20:13:29 -0600
From:    Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......>
Subject: Re: the trouble with mortality

> The [FK vampire's] stomach must do something

In "Night in Question", Nat puts the blood pack into Nick's stomach, not
his veins/arteries. And, after all, the stomach is where stuff goes once
it's swallowed. So I would say that some kind of processing (perhaps not
all of it) of vamps' meals happens in the stomach.

Other modern things that it would take a vampire a while to get used to:
speed! Speed of everything--vehicles, images (on TV & in movies), speed
of daily life. I've spent my whole life living in cities, but I have
also spent a few months living in small towns, long enough to fully
realize just how impatient and impersonal folks from cities are in
comparison. And even the largest medieval city would be a small town by
modern standards.

The incredibly wide availability of the written word, and literacy in
general, would be another new thing to a vamp with memory loss. Heck of
a shift, from a few hand-illuminated texts to newspapers, magazines, and
paperbacks available on every street corner.

Colours--modern colours, especially in clothing, often have an intensity
not usually seen in the medieval world  (at least, not without great
expense). The introduction of aniline dyes in the 19th century
revolutionized textiles.

Don't forget women in trousers!

Modern medicine is truly a marvel, even compared to the medicine of
the18th century--so many things which routinely killed people are no
longer a major concern, from infection to childbirth to diseases like
measles and whooping cough.

Your very humble & most obedient servant,
Angela gottfred

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 May 2003 22:32:09 -0500
From:    Monica Rodriguez <doctormon@m.......>
Subject: Re: the trouble with mortality

From:    Emily Lacey <laceye@e.......>
> >
> > What seems like continually making the same mistake over
> and over, is simply trying to adapt to a different ideology--and it
> doesn't always work, as the ideal he has keeps changing as the world
> changes around him.
>
mmm .. . maybe. I'm thinking more of Nick's tendency to think "I'm going to
do the right thing because it's the right thing, and others will understand
that. *And* LaCroix will understand that. And, of course, others are going
to see it that way because they're going to see it the way I see it. Because
I'm right."

That makes Nick sound incredibly childish and self-centered, I know. For the
sake of brevity, I'm simplifying his views (although he *could* be childish
and self-centered - on occasion ;-) ). But he tends to assume that others
will see things his way, even LaCroix. Now, we can say, of course, everyone
does that to a certain extent. Yes, we do. And children do it more. In fact
until a certain age, they can't do anything but that. And that's my point.
It's a matter of maturity. In fact, that's the word I was looking for!
Maturity. I think they would, having 100s of years to mature, show a bit
more.. . maturity. (And I must include dear Uncle here, too. What 'mature'
2000 year old being would say, "What about my plantations?!) <g>

> Yeah, someone once told me that the Catholic church used to say "give
> me a child for the first seven years of his life and he will be ours
> forever".
>
D'oh! So, that's what's wrong with me! <g> Yes, Recovering Catholic here,
guess I'll always be one. <g> No offense to practicing Catholics, just MHO.

monica
always luscious lucius lover
You used to be much more fun, Nicholas.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 May 2003 22:54:24 -0500
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@A.......>
Subject: Re: Vampire Memory Loss Challenge

> Emily wrote:

> Does anyone know what the exact challenge was or where it
> can be found?

This is what I wrote in the preface to my Memory Challenge story:

"Many moons ago, Lynn Messing posted a challenge---what would happen
if Nat cured Nick, but the cure made him forget everything that had
happened since that fateful night in 1228?"

And that's all we know--or remember--about this challenge! The only
other person who started writing a story for the challenge
was...er...darn! I can't remember! <g> Does anyone else remember---she
was one of the founders of an FK writer's list that was active for
about six months way back in 1997 or so.

Scratching her head,
Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 May 2003 21:31:35 -0700
From:    phylis sullivan <phylis_s_2000_2001@y......>
Subject: King Kong/popcorn scene

I just have to check and see if anyone knows this.  When Nick and Nat are
watching the video of King Kong, does any one know which one it was?  The
original or the remake.  I remember watching the remake with Jessica Lange and
Kurt Russell (I think) and coming out of the theatre crying (now blushing
profusely) and I tend to think that was the one they were watching.  They made
his expressions so human like.  The reason I thought of this is that they were
playing this last weekend on A&E (I think it was this channel.) and the question
stuck in my mind and I decided to unstick it by asking.  <g>  Just love that
popcorn scene.  I would have to throw the popcorn too.  Thanks, Phylis.


Phylis (Knightfilli) N&NPacker, Knightie, Dark Knightie
"Vampire is not a career choice."  Bart Simpson
email: phylis_s_2000_2001@y......
New:  Revamped <g> homepage
http://www.geocities.com/phylis_s_2000_2001/phylis_poetry_homepage.html

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 04:58:52 +0000
From:    Amy Hull <amilynh@A.......>
Subject: Re: King Kong/popcorn scene

> I just have to check and see if anyone knows this.  When Nick and Nat are
> watching the video of King Kong, does any one know which one it was?

I'm pretty sure it was the older one--awkward Kong, black & white.

I just love that the scene was a prank on Cath.

Amy

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 05:30:06 GMT
From:    KC Smith <tigrlady2u@j.....>
Subject: Re: Announcing.... (A bit long... it's from Shana)

 From Shana:
> Thanks all, for the wonderful messages of Congratulations and the cute
'cards'!  Our little Natalie thinks she's a vampire... she sleeps all day and stays
up all night!  I have to sleep when she does, and be up when she is, so my
schedule is getting turned around, too.
 Even though she was a month early, she is doing *great*! She's just under four
weeks old, and she already weighs nearly seven and a half pounds and is looking
around. We turned on FK the other day, and during the opening theme song she
turned her head towards the tv! Guess watching it all those times while I was
pregnant (and listening to the CD's!) has her used to the sound!
 She's got reddish brown hair (like Daddy) and blue eyes (like both of us), and
when she yawns, it's the cutest thing you've ever seen!
 For those of you that have asked: Yes, we named her that on purpose! My middle
name (coincidentally) is Catherine.  I thought it was not only a nice name, but
a bit ironic, so we named her Natalie Catherine. If she'd been a boy (which we
were told she was going to be!), she'd have been David Nigel Bennett >EG<.  I
think Chris is relieved that we had a girl, given my infatuation with the
General!  ;-)
 I sent KC the pics to scan, since she's in the photo biz. She should have them
for you by Monday at the very latest (at least that's what she told me).
 Okay, I've bored you all enough. Back to your regularly scheduled program. >G<


> As I'm sure you can all tell, my sister is deliriously happy (or delirously
tired!) with her new arrival. They've been exchanging all the boy clothes they
got from the showers, but have been keeping the 'okay for a girl' stuff.
 Take care, all!

KC Smith
tigrlady2u@j.....
Nick/Natpacker with dark tendencies.
"I've never met a chocolate I didn't like."

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 11:35:35 +0200
From:    Doris Weiss <dorisweiss_2000@y......>
Subject: Re: King Kong/popcorn scene

From the sound in the scene I thougt it was the old
one. You know Nick's taste in old b/w movies.

Amy wrote:
> I just love that the scene was a prank on Cath.

Why? Please enlighten those who don't know yet.

Luc


=====
"Even eternal life is too short to wait for a table." - Uncle -

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 03:30:18 -0700
From:    Cheryl Pillsbury <gerdavies2000@y......>
Subject: Kong movie

Amy asked:  Which Kong movie was Nick and Nat watching.

Well, I have that on tape and it's safe to say they were wayching my favorite,
the classic.  The original Kong movie.  The remake didn't even come close to
being a good movie.  So I can't picture them watching a bad movie.
Cheryl Pillsbury
gerdavies2000@y......


He was brought across in 1228
I was brought across in 1992
For we will be Forever Knight

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 03:34:19 -0700
From:    Cheryl Pillsbury <gerdavies2000@y......>
Subject: Nick's tummy

Angela asked about the blood into Nick's tummy.
The reason for that is the blood will get into him quicker but the blood from
LaCroix is what truely saved him.  The reason for the memory loss was because he
did turn alittle away from his demon to human.  But it didn't last long because
LaCroix would not allow it.  He loved Nick too much to loose him even to
Natalie.
Cheryl Pillsbury
gerdavies2000@y......


He was brought across in 1228
I was brought across in 1992
For we will be Forever Knight

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 13:31:52 +0000
From:    Amy Hull <amilynh@A.......>
Subject: Re: King Kong/popcorn scene

> > I just love that the scene was a prank on Cath.
> Why? Please enlighten those who don't know yet.

I didn't want to pontificate in case everyone *did* know, but wanted to mention
in case there were folks who *didn't*.  I'm glad you asked--this one was fun.

It has been so long that I'm sure to get the details of this a bit mixed up--
anyone who remembers additional bits or who can correct things, please jump
in--
but this was indeed a prank that Ger set up to play on Cath.  It's possible
that the director, Jorge Montesi helped or cooperated, but, again, I'm not
remembering.  This may have been the scene where Cath and Ger said, "We should
do X" and Jorge, having a different cultural background, said, "Why--that
doesn't work", but they insisted...but I can't remember Jorge's role beyond
keeping the cameras rolling--and on Cath--and not calling cut when she would
have expected.

The teeth weren't part of the script; that was Ger's prank and it's also why
they looked crooked--kind of different--and why there were no glowing
flashlight-with-the-box-of-light eyes.  (It was the only time 1st season where
there were teeth but no glowing eyes.)  So when he turns, with the fangs, and
she screams, practically teleports up onto the arm of the sofa, says, "Stop
it!" and plunks back down, then throws the popcorn at him...all that was Cath
responding (in character, too!) to Ger's little practical joke.

I *think* we either asked and had confirmed at TO Trek 93 or at the Ger weekend
in 95, but I don't remember anymore which it was, but perhaps someone else will
remember.

Amy
***
Listowner for the following groups for research and advice for fanfic writers
concerned with accuracy:
groups.yahoo.com/group/fanfic_med
groups.yahoo.com/group/fanfic_law
groups.yahoo.com/group/fanfic_history
See:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fanfic_military/ for a complete list of the
fanfic_foo lists

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 10:37:34 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@M.......>
Subject: Adm: Attention, AOL subscribers

Please check your settings. I just replied to an AOL member about a problem
with not receiving list mail. My message bounced with a note that the AOL member
wasn't accepting mail from my address.

As you remember, Don has noticed cases where AOL subscribers were blocking mail
from other members, and didn't know it.

Something apparently is wrong with AOL's settings. Please check that you are
not blocking addresses from which you want to receive mail. AOL should be able to
help you check on this if you don't know how.

Thanks!

McLisa
listowner, Forkni-l
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 10:47:16 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@M.......>
Subject: Admin: Question for AOL digest members

Are those of you who are on digest getting digests which contain posts from my
mclisa@m....... address? I ask because I just had a bounce from AOL which
shouldn't have bounced. A couple of months ago my address was forged as the
return address on a spam. I'm wondering if some people's settings blocked it
automatically.

Thanks!

McLisa
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 08:23:03 -0700
From:    Ithildin <ithildin@o.......>
Subject: Re: Adm: Attention, AOL subscribers

At 10:37 AM 5/16/2003 -0500, Lisa McDavid wrote:
>Something apparently is wrong with AOL's settings. Please check that you
>are not blocking addresses from which you want to receive mail. AOL should
>be able to help you check on this if you don't know how.

A few months ago, I had a problem sending mail to anyone I knew who had an
AOL address. Everything was bounced back. Apparently AOL didn't like my
address/domain or something. I had to email everyone from yahoo for several
weeks, and then the problem stopped and mail started going through again.


Denise * ithildin@o.......* Ith
http://www.ondragonswing.com/dragonstone/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Dragon's Muse:
http://ondragonswing.com/journal/muse

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 10:52:10 -0700
From:    Viv <viv11374@y......>
Subject: Re: Adm: Attention, AOL subscribers

-
> Something apparently is wrong with AOL's settings. Please check
> that you are not blocking addresses from which you want to
> receive mail. AOL should be able to help you check on this if
> you don't know how.
>
Um, if they're accidentally blocking us, how would they get
*that* message in the first place?

=====
Viv

Don't annoy the crazy person

Life's a witch and then you fly

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 11:29:02 -0700
From:    Viv <viv11374@y......>
Subject: help?

I'm making a website for a school project and one page has to be
about my hobbies. It must include links. So, can anyone recomend
one or two sites that they would consider as giving a good
introduction to FK? Also, do I need anyone's permission to link
to their FK sites?

=====
Viv

Don't annoy the crazy person

Life's a witch and then you fly

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 12:26:36 -0700
From:    Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......>
Subject: Re: help?

> one or two sites that they would consider as giving a good
> introduction to FK? Also, do I need anyone's permission to link
> to their FK sites?

You have to link to Kristin's site (Knight Vision).  I think it is
one of the best FK sites out there.  Unfortunately I am at work and I
don't have the link here.

-Amanda

=====
"Give me your soul and your heart will take flight
Forevermore in the night, Forever MINE in the night"
http://operacellar.tripod.com/phantomslair.html

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 12:36:52 -0700
From:    Cousin Tserisa <headpigeons@h.......>
Subject: FK Page Moved

Just a quick note to let people know that my Forever Knight page has moved
away from geocities -- finally.

The new URL is http://velvetdragon.com/forkni

All the pages (FK Fanfic Drinking Game, my affiliations list page, and so
on) have moved.  The only thing that is not at the new site is my fanfic,
but I've decided I need to tackle that a different way.  Also, if anyone has
any ideas, such as additions to the affiliations list (I heard it was a tad
out of date), please drop me an e-mail!

The CaddyWhack's homepage is still at the same URL,
http://velvetdragon.com/caddy/

Cousin Tserisa
(and the Cousinly Critters)
headpigeons@h....... * AIM: CousinTserisa
Cousin, Ratpacker, CaddyWhack
http://velvetdragon.com/forkni/

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 13:05:52 -0700
From:    Cheryl Pillsbury <gerdavies2000@y......>
Subject: FK pages

Viv asking for FK pages.

You can try the follwing websites:
www.honeybat.com/kristen2/Forever_Knight

www.scifi.com/fknight

These are two of my favorites outside of this one.  Let me know how it works
out.

Cheryl Pillsbury
gerdavies2000@y......


He was brought across in 1228
I was brought across in 1992
For we will be Forever Knight

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 20:15:10 +0000
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@A.......>
Subject: Re: help?

Viv wrote:

> about my hobbies. It must include links. So, can anyone recomend
> one or two sites that they would consider as giving a good
> introduction to FK? Also, do I need anyone's permission to link
> to their FK sites?

Two good sites are www.loftworks.com (a very good introduction to FK) and, of
course, the mother of all fic collections, www.fkfanfic.com.

It's considered polite to ask permission to link to someone's website.
Loftworks belongs to Dorothy Elggren. FKFanfic.com belongs to Mel Moser, but
since she's no longer really available, and the website hasn't been updated in
several years, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Nancy Kaminski
--
nancykam@a.......
www.nancykam.com

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 May 2003 15:19:46 -0500
From:    Kristin <kris1228@e.......>
Subject: Re: FK pages

Hi!

Thanks for mentioning my site. It's at: http://knightvision.4ever.cc

The link below is almost correct. My name is spelled with an "i."

Kristin
http://knightvision.4ever.cc
"When you only have eyes for the Knight..."

> Viv asking for FK pages.
>
> You can try the follwing websites:
> www.honeybat.com/kristen2/Forever_Knight

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 15 May 2003 to 16 May 2003 (#2003-142)
***************************************************************