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FORKNI-L Digest - 5 Feb 2001 to 6 Feb 2001 (#2001-44)

Tue, 6 Feb 2001

There are 13 messages totalling 413 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Last Knight
  2. Fw: Bonnie Hammer Interview
  3. Can anyone say Seize the Night in Spanish??? (5)
  4. Child In Time / Last Knight
  5. Right Time, Right Place
  6. Infidelity & Jealousy  {was: Right Place, Right Time}
  7. Child In Time
  8. Last season performances (was Child In Time)
  9. Last Knight - reality adjustment


Date:    Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:19:03 -0600
From:    "B. Stone" <STONEB@g.......>
Subject: Last Knight

Klytaimnestra said;
" My problem with LK is that it is not true to the characters, or to
the show. The show was about hope and struggle in the face of
adversity; about 'how we
live in captivity', as Nick says; about keeping the faith."

I won't argue about the characterization being a bit strained, but I
can't quite agree that in LK, Nick gives up all hope and ceases to
struggle in the face of adversity.  Natalie uncharacteristically
loses all patience, which causes her and Nick to resort to Janette's
cure.  This is ill-advised, unscientific, and not at all well-thought
out, but it is not lacking in hope.  (In fact, you  could say that
they had a bit too much hope, that they should have thought a  bit,
considered fortifying Nick a "bottle o' the best".)  Nor does the
choice of this option prove unwillingness to struggle in the face of
adversity.  Natalie struggles to convince Nick to try the cure and
instead of running out on her or walking into the sun or just sitting
there angsting like a bump on a log, Nick agrees to try the cure.  In
effect, he agrees to take on another struggle:  the struggle to
control himself enough to simply take a few sips.  Perhaps he should
have chosen a different struggle:  that of overcoming his aversion to
revealing himself to Natalie in a bad light so he could explain to
Natalie precisely why this cure would be so difficult.  She might
have listened long enough for Natalie, The Scientist to emerge once
again and save the day.  But unfortunately that was not what happened
(in this dream, if you prefer), so they wound up creating even more
adversity to struggle against.  Once Nick discovered he had taken too
much, he could have brought her across, but that would have meant
giving up his moral principles.  For the second time in that episode,
he manages to avoid subjecting another human being to his darkness,
even though it hurts him terribly to know that he must watch these
two people die, knowing that he caused their deaths.   Having made
the decision to let Natalie die, he must then decide whether to go on
living or to keep his promise to her to stay by her side and to keep
the faith that there will be some sort of afterlife together for the
two of them.  He chooses, of course, to keep his promise.  His last
few minutes are spent "living in captivity" in such a loving,
forgiving way that Lacroix is moved to stake him (or nearly stake
him, if you prefer), thus releasing him from his vampirism.  If you
define Nick's struggle as the quest for life as a human and marriage
to Natalie, then, I suppose you might see turning Natalie into a
vampire and hoping for a cure as "not giving up the good fight".  But
I believe Nick's struggle has always been about atonement and eternal
salvation.  He is true to this struggle to the very end.
                B. Stone


Date:    Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:25:49 -0000
From:    Barbara Vainio <bevainio@w.......>
Subject: Fw: Bonnie Hammer Interview

Bonnie Hammer InterviewCNN had this interview with Bonnie Hammer on
their web site today.  I found it very interesting and also thought it
might give some good insights in how to approach her about getting FK
back on the air.

Here's the URL


----- Original Message -----



Date:    Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:38:05 EST
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Can anyone say Seize the Night in Spanish???

I need to know how to say Seize the Night in Spanish?  Surely there is a
Vaquero out there who knows!


Date:    Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:48:41 -0500
From:    Diane Harris <diharris@v.......>
Subject: Re: Can anyone say Seize the Night in Spanish???

Erm, I haven't taken Spanish in a while, but I would guess that it's
"Agarre el noche"

I can't remember if I'm doing my verb conjugation correctly though.  It
looks like you're using a general Ud. conjugation...  I can't for the life
of me remember the familiar you imperative form...  Ick.  Is noche masculine
of feminine?  If it's feminine, it would be "Agarre la noche..."

Wow, I'm rusty.

Diane Harris (diharris@v.......)
Proud NNPacker, Knight, FoDS, CoTK, and glutton for any and all feedback.

> Y'all,
> I need to know how to say Seize the Night in Spanish?  Surely there is a
> Vaquero out there who knows!


Date:    Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:53:13 EST
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: Child In Time / Last Knight

In a message dated 2/5/01 1:14:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
e_blanco1@y....... writes:

<< he way she says "He should  be dead" would've had LaCroix seeing her
potential as >>
Wait, it was LC who realized that Nat was not *quite*, in transition to being
*undead* and he stakes Nick in the *shoulder* to keep Nick out of commission
while he brings Nat across!  The ultimate coup - LC becomes Nat's father etc.
 Oooooh .


Date:    Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:01:48 EST
From:    MRKKaye@a.......
Subject: Re: Can anyone say Seize the Night in Spanish???

In a message dated 2/5/2001 7:54:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, diharris@v.......

> If it's feminine, it would be "Agarre la noche..."

It's feminine.

M. Kaye


Date:    Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:05:37 EST
From:    Tammie Foley <X7xAngelx7x@a.......>
Subject: Re: Can anyone say Seize the Night in Spanish???

Agarre la noche is correct


Date:    Mon, 5 Feb 2001 21:00:37 -0500
From:    Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......>
Subject: Re: Right Time, Right Place

> Extremis wrote (about Erica)
> That ep implied that there was this other
> level that vampires go to-a kind of limbo-where
> they're alone.

Erica asked Nick to "join me in the light" and stood before him in the
sunlight, which seems to be a very positive sign, given the way the
symbolism is used in FK. "We are creatures of the Dark," Nick says in FIHS.

The fact that Erica said she was alone doesn't really say anything about how
she will spend eternity.... One longstanding tradition about ghosts is that
they have some kind of unfinished business to deal with, and then move on
when it is done or when their attention is focused away from Earth and on to
the next step (The next step being various things in various religious and
cultural traditions, including a time spent expiating sin or gaining
knowledge of one's soul and life.)

Perhaps Erica returned to show Nick that a vampire would not necessarily be
condemned to darkness?


mcombs@e....... N&Npacker
"RL=Real Life. It's that stuff that keeps happening that gets in the way of
that other stuff."--Sue Clark


Date:    Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:21:07 -0800
From:    "David J. Duncan" <dante0220@y.......>
Subject: Re: Can anyone say Seize the Night in Spanish???

Hi Everyone:

How about "coge el noche!" (Coger is one verb
meaning to seize.)

Gracias para su attencion. (Thanks for your



Date:    Mon, 27 Aug 1956 12:53:09 +0000
From:    Jeannie Ecklund <jecklund@l.......>
Subject: Re: Infidelity & Jealousy  {was: Right Place, Right Time}

The episode in which Nick was so jealous {was it "Be My
Valentine" or something?

That was: Only The Lonely



Date:    Tue, 6 Feb 2001 07:53:20 -0800
From:    Extremis <e_blanco1@y.......>
Subject: Re: Child In Time

Hi Stephen,

<<I think that you may be confusing Fallen Idol with a
first season episode entitled "Father Figure.>>

Right. "Father Figure" had the little girl who cleaned
out Skank in poker. Check. Thanks for clearing that
up. I'm working on learning titles, really! <g>

<<As for other performances>>

I'd give the statue to Ger for "Sons Of Belial". Nigel
would get it for "Fever." The Nightcrawler's broadcast
where he tried to console his dying children was
extremely heavy. Is there anyone else who feels that
some of the best FK performances were in the last
season? I remember something Ron Perlman said about
the last season of Beauty And The Beast, that if they
really were at death's door, then you could literally
go anywhere with the shows, since it was all about to
come down anyway. It's possible that with FK facing
cancellation, the shows went over the top for that
same reason and the actors let themselves go more than
they would have.



Date:    Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:04:11 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Last season performances (was Child In Time)

Although there were fine performances throughout the series, I do think some of
the most powerful (with a few exceptions) were in third season. FEVER always
pops into my mind. I've seen a lot of television, and have even studied script
writing which consisted of tearing apart (critically) scripts, and I don't think
I've ever seen or read a finer hour of dramatic television (in my opinion, of

Nigel's portrayal of LaCroix was excellent, as always. Greg Kramer's Screed in
this episode just rips me apart everytime, while still managing to make me
laugh. Catherine also does a remarkable job without making the message of "I
will NOT judge!" too melodramatic. If only the world would do the same!  Ger
also is wonderful, of course. Ben Bass' Vachon is almost as powerful as Screed,
as he deals with his best friend dying as he must stand by helpless... Well, I
could list them all, but I won't.

Now, fannish screams of "Screed ain't dead, he's just takin' a bit o' a shut-eye
nappy time" aside, I can't imagine Screed NOT dying in this episode. (Though I
can think of numerous ways to rectify the situation)  They could have introduced
a character whose entire role was to die, but it would not have been the same or
as powerful because we didn't have other episodes in which to get to know and
love him.  Like everyone, I normally get more than a little pissed when a
favorite character dies, but in this case I was so mesmerized (sp?) by the
powerfulness of the writing and performances, that I immediately rewound the
tape I'd made and watched it again - and again. I got up the next morning and
watched it again.

As anyone who has witnessed me at a FK party, put this episode in and I will
actually sit still and be quiet for the length of it!

Of course there were other very powerful episodes with very powerful
performances in other season, Be My Valentine (is that right, you know which I
mean) and A More Permanent Hell come to mind. But FEVER, wow, FEVER, that one
just gets to me.



Date:    Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:45:06 -0600
From:    Sami Swan Thompson <angels2@f.......>
Subject: Re: Last Knight - reality adjustment

Susan Garrett wrote:
> The tragedy is that I haven't justified Last Knight, but neither can I
> simply say that it doesn't exist.

Well, heck, I'll do it:

"Last Knight" doesn't exist. HA!  It never happened.  You're so sleepy;
it was simply an illusion.  Hahahahaha! What a ridiculous nightmare.
Now go back to sleep. I'll fix some popcorn and wake you up when it's
time for Forever Knight to start, okay? It's #1 in the ratings, you know.

See, everything is all better.  Oh, and James Parriott is taking us
to lunch tomorrow to tell us all about next season's changes.  We're
going to have much more Ger and much less everybody else. Sigh. Life
is good.

The Queen of Denial


End of FORKNI-L Digest - 5 Feb 2001 to 6 Feb 2001 (#2001-44)

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