File: "FORKNI-L LOG9606A" Part 6 TOPICS: Nat's Car... How Long Is the Longest Friendship? JK in Michigan Monthly Ger's hair, Summer in OtL, & LaCroix's Personality An Interesting Night LaCroix's Personality (2) Nat Pack Birthdays (2) parental stuff (was: no subject) Nick and the Unnameds (again) (3) NatPack birthdays (2) Sad news first season parental stuff Parental References - First Season ALERT: "Francesca" on CFPL NOW!!! LC and Incest (Re: FORKNI-L Digest - 3 Jun 1996) Correcting myself (was LC and Incest) Mail Problems.... Nick/LC in Trophy Girl Morality and Vampires Origin of the Quest Mummies in ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 03:00:14 +0500 From: John Folden <jtfolden@e.......> Subject: Nat's Car... A few days ago I posted a message asking if anyone knew what type of car Natalie drove in the series(Trivial question, but anyway). Several people responded but I don't think anyone was sure of the exact model. I just got done re-watching Episode #204 "Bad Blood" and noticed she drove an Oldsmobile Cutlass Cierra. Of course, at the end of the episode the car was destroyed in a fire and she was waiting for a reimbursment check (according to Cohen). I guess, I'll have to slowly continue watching old episodes to see what she bought! This isn't important info (except maybe to a few fanfic writers) but I just thought I'd post it in case I got anyone else with a warped mind wondering. //---------------------------------------- // John T. Folden, a demented victorian // lost in the DARK SHADOWS of an endless // FOREVER KNIGHT... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 03:56:15 -0400 From: Deborah Bender <DBendr@a.......> Subject: How Long Is the Longest Friendship? I only have time to read this list sporadically, so I hope I'm not replowing old furrows. Also, if anyone who is conversant with obsolete versions of AOL Mac software or Word 5.0 can tell me how to shorten my line length (other than by hand), please let me know and I will be a better citizen. When we discuss the nature of LC and Nick's relationship, and how the characters themselves feel about it, it helps to have historical perspective. Both of these vampires' emotional natures were formed when they were mortal, in societies that were different from each other and from the society we live in. We all know this, but we sometimes forget that words like "friend", "son" and "lover" have very different emotional connotations to people if the social structures and arrangements supporting them are different. The first time (in broadcast order) that Nick talks about his relationship with Nick is in DK chapter 1, to Alyce Hunter. He says, "LaCroix was my master. It's difficult to explain." There is a hint here that there was something in their relationship that the word "master" does not adequately express. The first time (in broadcast order) that LC talks about his relationship with Nick is in DK c2, when Nick follows him into the abbatoir. LC speaks briefly but eloquently, and my recollection is that his opening words are, "How long is the longest friendship?' At the time, we had no knowledge about LC's origins, but these words are perfectly in character with what we later find out. It has been pointed out by many writers, most recently by Thomas Cahill in __How the Irish Saved Civilization__, that friendship between men was a far more important relationship in the civilizations of antiquity than it is today. It was, in fact, the most prestigious social relationship--more highly valued than marriage, which was basically an economic arrangement; heterosexual romantic love, viewed as a debasing self-indulgence; devotion to the gods, which was obligatory; or devotion to society as a whole, which political conditions did not allow. The only social relation viewed with as much respect as male friendship was the relationship between parent and child, and friendship was more interesting because it contained an element of choice. Male friendships were celebrated in song and story, held up for admiration and fantasy, in the same way that heterosexual romantic love is today. Friends were expected to be friends for life, to remain friends despite distance and changes in fortune, and to die for each other if need be Friends were emotionally and physically intimate. Whether that intimacy was sexual or not (which varied from society to society and very likely from pair to pair), it must certainly have had an erotic element. Although male friendship was not the bond __par excellence__ for medievals, it was held in high regard. Warrior cultures encourage male bonding. The popular literature of Nick's time included het love stories, which always ended tragically, but they also included the tales of David and Jonathan and Hector and Achilles (which also ended tragically, come to think of it). All relationships in the middle ages were personal, most of them were unequal, and many involved performing physical service upon the body of the superior member of the relationship. Although we think that human nature does not change, lust, physical intimacy and emotional attachment turned up in different permutations for thirteenth century people than they do for us. <<Diane Echelbarger writes: >Nick is far too obviously still a product of his 13th century Catholic >upbringing, and because of that it's very unlikely he'd view the >possibility of a homosexual relationship with *anyone* as anything >but horrifying.>> That can be debated. The preachers of the time dwelled much more on the danger and uncleanliness of heterosexual lust (even within marriage!), how Eve's sin had condemned all humankind and how seductresses were continually luring men into sinks of filthy iniquity, etc. The average person, who wasn't very well schooled in the tenets of Christianity anyway, may have thought of homosexual acts as minor sins like gluttony or cursing. There's a famous and controversial gay historian (John somebody?) who wrote a book called Christianity and Social Tolerance which asserts that the early middle ages (before the 13th century) didn't see much wrong with homosexual acts at all. My impression is that Christendom did not start obsessing over homosexual behavior until the Inquisition got underway, more than a century after Nick was brought across. I think it is __certain__ that Nick witnessed homosexual acts as a mortal, and very possible that he participated in them, not necessarily with full consent or enthusiasm. He was brought up on a manor, associating daily with stableboys and grooms, huntsmen and fletchers and armorers, serving men, the smith and the carpenter, the miller and the cooper, the priest or the clerk, to say nothing of villeins and serfs. People of all ranks in the middle ages had very little privacy. Nick must have been an exceptionally handsome and perhaps girlish looking boy. And then he joined the army, which had plenty of camp followers to be sure, but sometimes a man doesn't have the coin or the inclination to seek them out. We should also bear in mind that although homosexual activiy has been around since time immemorial, the social category of a homosexual __person__ did not exist until it was created by Victorian scientists. People could and did engage in homoerotic behavior and even homosexual intercourse without thinking of themselves as "homosexual". Some still do. I am told that in some Latin cultures, a man can receive oral sex from another man without impairing his machismo; it is only giving it (playing the part of the woman) that is stigmatized. Colleen McCullough says that the Romans thought the same way. I highly recommend Lillian Federman's book, Surpassing the Love of Men, about nineteenth century female romantic friendships. Romantic friendship is another social category we have lost. It was apparently commonplace among English speaking women to form passionate attachments, write love letters, and caress one another, without anyone (including these women's husbands) thinking that the women were involved in a sexual relationship. Deborah Bender DBendr@a....... Beyond Wicca 101: The Witches Trine. Email me for subscription info ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 07:08:07 -0400 From: "Nancy M. Duemling" <nancyd@p.......> Subject: JK in Michigan Monthly Reading an article in the Michigan Monthly this morning, about a couple of guys who went to California to present Tim Allen with a plaque from the Michigan legislature. In the article, by Ivan Helfman, is the following: Also rehearsing was comic character actor John Capelos (sic, darn it!), an old friend of Scofes. Scofes lived in Chicago when Capelos was a member of Second City, the well-known Windy City comic troupe. "Capelos was also appearing in an episode of ER, so he took us to the Warner's lot to meet George Clooney," Scofes said. Well, there's no such thing as bad publicity, just poor spelling, right? Nancy D., Knightie and DueSer (nancyd@p.......) Visit our web site at http://www.msen.com/~duemling/ Nick Knight, Benton Fraser, Ray Vecchio and Brisco County, Jr. What is it with me and law abiding guys??? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:11:25 -0300 From: "l.d. steele" <aa300@f.......> Subject: Ger's hair, Summer in OtL, & LaCroix's Personality (combining messages is a <good> thing! <g>) > From: Carolyn Brown <Carolyn772@a.......> > What color is Ger's hair in Real Life? In the show it appears to be > everything from dark blonde to purple <g>, depending on the lighting. > Carolyn Speaking from the viewpoint of someone with personal experience, a brief person-to-person glance, and pictures... I'd have to say dark brown with blond hightlights. This type of hair lightens in the summers, espescially if the hair is kept short. Depending on the lighting situations and clothing, it <can> appear anywhere from blond to dark brown. <g> Most people describe Nick as being blond in fanfic. Anyone with more personal experience with GWD is welcome to correct me. :) ------------------------------ > On Mon, 3 Jun 1996, Susan M. Garrett wrote: > > OBFK: In OTL, Nick wakes up on Nat's table on her birthday. The calendar > > on the lab wall says JUNE. So why is it, when they finally get down to > > continuity in the last couple eps (no spoilers please), that they get THIS > > wrong? > From: Beth Brown <BKBVA@a.......> > Works for me. The only problem I had with it was that in OTL, it was clearly > warm weather, as everyone was walking around without a coat. Having just > been in Toronto in late April, there's *no way* it could have been that warm! > <g> ] > Torontonians are welcome to correct me if that was unusual weather. Again, <real> Torontonians are welcome to correct me, but I live in S. Ontario for two years. It <is> within the realm of possibility to have that nice whether by April 18th. April 1st? Probably not, but I'm willing to stretch it. I found that S. Ontario (which includes Toronto) has a very short spring that occurs late April. Everything turns green, the temperature can shoot up to the twenties (Celcius of course! Fahrenheit? ?? 70 ?). Given the summer clothes and activities that was going on in the background... It <within> the realms of possibility that they were having an unusually early spring. I would have been happier if they put it even a half-month later though. :) ----------------------------------- I love the "things that LC does, but would never admit to" thread. :) >Lisa P <LadysAVamp@a.......> suggested (paraphrasing) > All the Disney movies. Which is his favourite? I'd have to go with "Sleeping Beauty", just for the sheer magnificence of the antagonist. I've watched a few Disney movies lately (don't ask), and ... UGH some of the "unintended messages" are quite awful to see, BUT I can still watch "Sleeping Beauty" just for that scene where she turns into a dragon! More things: 45) evening Mini-golf 78) wearing white clothes 111) forgets his large ring in odd countries, and then has to go back in order to get it! 234) having the special, complete edition of "the sound of music". <-Lurkers! 333) Watching Sesame Street 555) Flying into electic poles while in the middle of a 2000-yr-old flashback more please! :) Dawn l.d. steele h36a@u....... or aa300@f....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 07:01:17 -0500 From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......> Subject: An Interesting Night Could someone send me the story "An Interesting Night"? I don't know who it was by, or when it was posted, or even what I'm doing awake at 6 AM, but if someone could send this to me, I'd 'preciate it! (tippinb@i.......) Wicked Cousin Tippi, Dollar Bill Wrangler of the Thong Throng! *Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix*Founding Member: Unnamed Faction* "I've got a hamster in my pants, and I think I like it." - something Nick didn't say in an episode that never existed ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 07:59:25 -0400 From: "J.A. Stafford" <KnightGal@a.......> Subject: Re: LaCroix's Personality All I can say is, I'm having as much fun as everyone else, but, dear me! I'm going to have to be careful how I ask these questions!!!!! Cousin J ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:59:49 -0400 From: Jane Credland <janes@i.......> Subject: Re: Nat Pack Birthdays At 12:37 AM 6/4/96 -0400, Beth Brown wrote: >Works for me. The only problem I had with it was that in OTL, it was clearly >warm weather, as everyone was walking around without a coat. Having just >been in Toronto in late April, there's *no way* it could have been that warm! Actually, it is possible to walk around without a coat in Toronto in late April. The weekend before everyone came up for Taming of the Shrew, I was doing just that. The temperature dropped into the basement just in time for y'all to visit. Keep in mind, of course, that when you've been through a Toronto winter, even 18c (about 67F) seems balmy. Jane (janes@i.......) Raven ** Immortal Beloved ** M.B.D.T.K Tread softly because you tread on my dreams [W.B. Yeats} ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 07:28:58 -0500 From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......> Subject: Re: parental stuff (was: no subject) Sandra wrote: >I don't have any specific quotes from any of TPTB about the relationship >between Nick and LC. My comments are just my opinions as based upon a >viewing of the episodes. While I certainly don't think TPTB went out of their way to emphasize an *amorous* relationship, I don't think they went out of their way to quash it either. ;) I mean, I came into FK about halfway through the 2nd season, and it seemed right away like a love affair gone bad. Apache posted a snippet from an interview a few days ago about the purposely suggestive direction of Killer Instinct (2md season, I think, right?). Maybe it wasn't explicitly written in the script ("LaCroix makes a suggestive movement toward Nick"), but the director directed it that way and the actors played it that way. Consciously. :) (Be kind of hard to do anything while unconscious!) The director, whoever he/she was, was employed by TPTB, and a real good way to not get hired again is to go against TPTB's wishes. >almost felt to me that with LC's return, someone decided that they >wanted it pounded into viewers' heads that this was a *father and son* >relationship. This is just my opinion but maybe there was some concern >that a homosexual tone to the relationship would lose viewers and <snip> That could be true, too. At least to some extent. I don't think it was ever completely cut out, though. A lot of people who came in during the second season, without ever having seen the 1st (like me), still saw the sensual/sexual tension. > The increased emphasis on the father/son stuff smacks of >"thou doth protest too much", imo. :) Well, yes. ;) Sometimes folks go the other extreme and only end up coming full circle! Wicked Cousin Tippi, Dollar Bill Wrangler of the Thong Throng! *Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix*Founding Member: Unnamed Faction* "We skipped those lessons, didn't we?" LC to NK, discussing how to stitch a blind hem during Home Ec. class. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 07:39:36 -0500 From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......> Subject: Re: Nick and the Unnameds (again) Sandra wrote: >As Tippi said, not everyone views that scene that way. I didn't, >mainly because of the long head-to-toe, sensual look at Nick that LC >gave Nick when he neared him. Yes! See, now, this is exactly the "look" that convinced me even during the 2nd season that there was something *more* to the relationship. LC is quite proficient at this head-to-toe look, and lavishes it on Nick quite frequently. (Alternating sometimes with the languid eyes-to-mouth look.) If he'd been looking at a woman that way, there would be no doubt in most people's minds that he was looking at them in a sensual manner. Most parents don't look at their children that way. >I don't think anyone is suggesting that there is *not* a parent-child >aspect to the relationship between LC and Nick. It's just that some >people see more levels of interaction than that. There's the friend >and brother aspects, for examples. Precisely! This is the single most complex relationship in FK or any other TV show I've seen. It has more facets than the Hope Diamond. >Yes, and that is another aspect of their relationship, which is also >stated in very literal terms by Nick in the flashback of Killer >Instinct. I've *really* got to see Killer Instinct. Still trying to find it in my tapes. >LC. It's also is apparent that Nick suffered much emotional abuse by >LC (although LC may not have seen it that way), perhaps to an extent >that Nick felt a bit "rootless" with LC "dead". Well even I, Cousin that I am, won't claim that LC is Father of the Year. At least not in traditional terms. Let's just say Nick won't be buying him a Hallmark Card for Father's Day. ;) >We've seen Nick in flashbacks with just LC, but rarely have >we seen Nick *alone* with Janette in a flashback. This may be an >indication that LC was more influential in Nick's life than Janette. This was something else I've noticed. LC and NK and often together in the 1st season flashbacks and Janette is nowhere to be seen. The only Nick and Janette sans LC scene I remember off the top of my head is in If Looks Could Kill. Janette appears briefly with the Baronness and Nick is there. Most of the time, though, Nick, LC and Janette seemed to be a threesome (and I don't mean that in the sexual way!). Wicked Cousin Tippi, Dollar Bill Wrangler of the Thong Throng! *Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix*Founding Member: Unnamed Faction* "We skipped those lessons, didn't we?" LC to NK, discussing how to stitch a blind hem during Home Ec. class. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 06:02:41 -0700 From: Sharon Himmanen <romana@i.......> Subject: NatPack birthdays Thank you all kindly for the birthday wishes yesterday. As for the date for Nat's birthday given in "Last Knight": They goofed and didn't check w/ OtL or us. The scan of her address book later in OtL blows the 14th as a possible date anyway. Her birthday is in June. My favorite reason for denying that it's April 14th came frome Jamie I think, who, when she saw that shook her head and said, "No way Nat's an Aries." Works for me <g>. I'm leaving it up as June 24th on the NatPack page. Amy Hull's explanation of why it's June 24th is just too charming to waste. Sharon -- Sharon A. Himmanen * romana@i....... * romana@a....... NatPack ** BotCoS ** Keeper of the GopherGame Nat's B&B http://members.aol.com/romana/natpage_stuff/natpack.htm SOS-FK http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html "You can sleep anytime. How often to you get to have a beer with me?" --unattributed quote ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:09:57 -0400 From: Will Steeves <goid@i.......> Subject: Re: Sad news MARG YAMANAKA <ZEZQ01A@p.......> writes... >It is with regret that I inform you that the "Forever Knight" sign that >graced the entrance of the production studios is no longer there. Oh...and here I thought that this news had already been disseminated? If I had known that people didn't know about it, I'd have mentioned it two weeks ago. To wit: the day after Last Knight, I was giving The Tour (tm) to Brenda Clarke, our party's Very Special Guest from Syracuse...and we noticed to our eternal chagrin that the Forever Knight sign had been _covered over with glue_ (or so it appeared) by the sign for Nick Gray's new show, "The Wrong Guy". Ugh. W. --- Will Steeves, B.Sc. (Toronto, 1991), goid@i....... - "Neil Hull is GOiD" Publisher & Managing Editor, The New Edition (U of T); Nu '96, Psi Upsilon Ontario Area Coordinator, FREE (http://www.vix.com/free) If possession is 9/10 of the law, what's the other 1/10? - Steeves' Laws Vol. I ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:12:38 -0500 From: Carrie Krumtum <carriek@e.......> Subject: Re: LaCroix's Personality Lisa P. wrote: > #?? He has the entire collection of Walt Disney movies. > > Can you guess what his favorite would be? My vote would be the Aristocats. All those fun tunes to memorize and dance to. Hehehehehehe.... -- Carrie, Proud Knightie The Nurse is a hampster ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:23:46 -0500 From: Carrie Krumtum <carriek@e.......> Subject: Re: first season parental stuff Sandra Gray wrote: >I don't recall as much emphasis being placed >on the father/son relationship in first season. Does anyone recall >any dialogue or commentary in this regard from first season episodes I would say that there wasn't any such emphasis because Nick and LaCroix were no longer contemporaries. LaCroix was supposed to be dead. He only existed in flashbacks, and since the flashbacks were all from Nick's POV, they wouldn't hold that kind of emphasis anyway. It's not until Killer Instinct, the season two opener, that we find out LaCroix is not dead and there is any contemporary interaction between the two characters. :)= -- Carrie, Proud Knightie The Nurse is a hampster ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:15:30 -0500 From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......> Subject: Re: Parental References - First Season At 06:46 PM 6/3/96 -0500, Sandra Gray wrote: >I don't recall as much emphasis being placed >on the father/son relationship in first season. Does anyone recall >any dialogue or commentary in this regard from first season episodes In Dark Knight, the pilot episode, the very first episode, when Nick was telling Natalie about LaCroix, he said, "He's like a father or a brother." In the same episode, on the radio, LaCroix referred to Nick as, "My brother, my child." Also, I think that in the Canadian version of I Will Repay, Janette says to Nick about LaCroix, "He was your father. He loved you." Margie (treeleaf@i.......) N&NPacker Cousin of the Knight ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:31:21 -0400 From: Will Steeves <goid@i.......> Subject: Re: ALERT: "Francesca" on CFPL NOW!!! Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@f.......> writes: >For folks who unfortunately got "Francesca Doe" from WKBW a few weeks ago, ...ugh. I _still_ remember that. >you now have a second chance! CFPL channel 10 London (Roger's Cable 21 in >Hamilton) is showing "Francesca" RIGHT NOW!!! If you can get your tape in the >VCR before 10:30, you can get the last half of the show. Blatant Guilt Tripping Ahead... :-) Now, now, Dalton, if you'd come out to the Toronto Contingent's Post Shrewthering / Last Knight Party, you'd have have seen the _whole_ episode, courtesy of Brenda, our Very Special Guest from Syracuse. :-) We probably could have worked _something_ out, to pick you up from Hamilton! Besides, we even had two Very Special Guests from London. (Now who am I kidding here? ALL of the guests were Very Special Guests!) And yes, we'd all have gotten to meet you, one our area's relatively new "newbies" (we're _assuming_ that you're a newbie, that is...although some of your fan fiction ideas almost sound like Don Bassingthwaite's .... Coincidence? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....). Cheers, Cousin Will --- Will Steeves, B.Sc. (Toronto, 1991), goid@i....... - "Neil Hull is GOiD" Publisher & Managing Editor, The New Edition (U of T); Nu '96, Psi Upsilon Ontario Area Coordinator, FREE (http://www.vix.com/free) If possession is 9/10 of the law, what's the other 1/10? - Steeves' Laws Vol. I ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:38:07 -0400 From: TJ Goldstein <vanguard@p.......> Subject: LC and Incest (Re: FORKNI-L Digest - 3 Jun 1996) Donna G. Albrecht wrote: > Finally, I believe LC had the final word on his feelings about incest when > Divia tried to seduce him and had her head detached for her troubles. Which is pretty ironic, actually, since in his time it was not only acceptable, but encouraged. (I missed the whole AtA discussion. Sorry if that's been beaten to death.) ---- TJ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:04:11 -0300 From: Stapleton <d7ux@u.......> Subject: Re: Nat Pack Birthdays > I say that's a good date because it's also my birthday. :) > As for why the calendar in OTL said June...well maybe Nat was looking > ahead at something when Nick's body was wheeled in and distracted, she > neglected to turn it back to the right month - April. I'd have to disagree. I've been to Toronto in April and June (different years) and the weather that was shown in TO in LK was not June (OTL). In Only The Lonely, her birthday was in June (Calender), the day before she went to the Toronto Islands (or possibly in the Beaches area) with Roger for a lunch break. Although April does have a fair amount of sunshine, it does not often lend itself to the temps indicated by kids wearing shorts (OTL). Now if that sounds rather confusing, I apologize. But I still consider Nat's b'day to be in June. Lynn Stapleton d7ux@u....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:07:48 -0500 From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......> Subject: Re: Nick and the Unnameds (again) At 02:53 AM 6/4/96 -0500, Sandra Gray wrote: >I thought LC exhibited symptoms of jealousy when watching Nick and >Nat kiss in Be My Valentine. Yes, I thought he did too. Given what that episode was about, I saw that as jealousy that Nick had a romantic relationship, and he (LC) didn't. >....another aspect of their relationship, which is also >stated in very literal terms by Nick in the flashback of Killer >Instinct. When LC tells Nick he is "my protege", Nick replies "Your >slave." And this was not long after Nick was brought over. I believe, in fact, it was right after Nick was brought over. After Nick's reply, LC says, "If you are my slave, I am yours also." Then he says something like, "I will teach you all I know." Nick may see the relationship as Master-Slave at that point, but LC doesn't. >....Nick's *desparate fear* that LC has *left* him when LC is training him >to find him by "vibrations" (those invisible vampire ties between them). Kind of like the fear a young child has of being abandoned by his parents. >Nick has been able over the centuries to resist LC's control and eventually >break away from it to a large degree. This is something a child does as he grows up. >But early on, LC called the shots and if LC had wanted to take sexual >advantage of Nick, I don't think Nick would have been able to put up a lot >of resistance. I don't think Nick would have been able to either, but I don't see LC as someone who would force a sexual relationship on his child. >The attitude projected in the "tracking by vibration" scene is that Nick >is totally dependent on LC. Young children _are_ totally dependent on their parents. >And LC tries very hard to keep Nick that way over the centuries too. Why is this so? He has not kept other children he's made under his thumb Nick is his favorite. There are parents who try to keep their kids dependent on them. They often use a lot of manipulative tricks to do it. It doesn't mean they don't love their kids, far from it, but it isn't right, nevertheless. >It also seems that his relationship with LC has been his strongest >connection to another vampire. The relationship with the parent normally is a person's strongest connection, at least until the person grows up. >Finally, I have to say that a "parent-child" relationship does not >necessarily negate a sexual relationship. Sadly, even among mortals, >some parents sexually abuse their children. That's true. Some parents do. But that's the difference here. I don't see LC as a sex abuser. Margie (treeleaf@i.......) N&NPacker Cousin of the Knight ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:26:34 -0400 From: TJ Goldstein <vanguard@p.......> Subject: Correcting myself (was LC and Incest) Donna G. Albrecht wrote: > Finally, I believe LC had the final word on his feelings about incest when > Divia tried to seduce him and had her head detached for her troubles. I had said that in LC's time it was acceptable, but I have been kindly disabused of that notion by Cynthia, who points out the distinction between having sex with children (OK) and having sex with one's OWN children (very NOT OK) in Roman times. ---- TJ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:45:39 -0400 From: dotti rhodes <dottir@w.......> Subject: Mail Problems.... Hi gang....hate to waste bandwidth but just in case anyone send me anything over the past couple of days (sigh) my server changed over mail servers and I know for a fact I lost 182 messages this morning and couldn't get on at all yesterday. They have assured me this is over (I'll see it when I believe it) but just in case anyone sent me anything important, I'm not being a pain...I just lost all my mail...again. ObFK: I just read something in Entertainment Weekly that because of the quick demise of that "other" show, vampires are out now in the land of tv and mummies are in....oh, brother. That just might make our crusade a little more difficult. Anyone know how the numbers are right now on Sci-Fi for viewership of FK since it's been there? Dotti R Knightie 4-Ever dottir@w....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:41:53 -0500 From: Mad Hatter <cli7@s.......> Subject: Re: Nick and the Unnameds (again) At 10:07 AM 6/4/96 -0500, you wrote: >>I thought LC exhibited symptoms of jealousy when watching Nick and >>Nat kiss in Be My Valentine. > >Yes, I thought he did too. Given what that episode was about, I saw that >as jealousy that Nick had a romantic relationship, and he (LC) didn't. i thought it was for Nick's interference with LC's possible relationship with Nick's mortal sister (as i recall, Nick prevented LC to bring her across)_ and somewhere in there LC said he'd get his revenge [for taking away his love] . -mdht <cli7@s.......> "i shall continue to be an impossible person so long as those who are now possible remain possible." -michael bakunin [1814-76] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:40:57 -0700 From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......> Subject: Re: Nick/LC in Trophy Girl Raissa and several others have observed: >LC licks blood on his finger after taking it off Nick's face in the >flashback sequence of Trophy Girl. Listmembers, particularly in the UF, might be interested to know that in a certain actor's copy of the Trophy Girl script, at the scene involving the above particularly *erotic* encounter, are the handwritten words "lick face?" Wonder if they ever seriously considered filming it that way. Would certainly have been ... interesting. Laurie and Cynthia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:46:05 -0500 From: Mad Hatter <cli7@s.......> Subject: Re: Morality and Vampires At 04:26 PM 6/3/96 -0500, you wrote: >> Nick rejects all vampire behavior? I haven't seem him reject flying, or the >> ability to hypnotize, or the drinking of blood (albeit cow's blood), or >> superstrength, or keen hearing... <schnip> >Anyway, I think it was very clear in first season that Nick wanted to >avoid using all vampire abilities, although he rarely succeeded. >Unfortunately for continuity, by third season, there had been almost a >complete about-face on the show about such things >Sarah Nick may reject the state; but yes, there's some inconsistency [blame it on short show mortality, perhaps] i thought it was an interesting method of redemption: to redeem himself for being a vampire and doing what a vampire does, he uses those vampire powers to eventually remove himself from being a vampire . . -mdht <cli7@s.......> "i shall continue to be an impossible person so long as those who are now possible remain possible." -michael bakunin [1814-76] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:06:55 -0700 From: Amy R. <akr@n.......> Subject: Origin of the Quest (moving this over from the spoiler list....) On Mon, 3 Jun 1996, Lisa P. wrote: > vampire for very long. Poor Nick, it took approx. 300 years to lose his > vampiric virginity...and his wife, all in one night. Actually, I would consider bringing someone across more analogous to having a child, and first feeding as more analogous to first sex, but it is interesting to note that Janette, by her own admission in IWR, has never brought anyone over (yes, that story explaining the Baroness is coming...). (And while we're on the topic, do we know of *any* of Nick's children who aren't dead, <excepting any spoilers>?) But what I want to point to is that 300 year factor. Nick stopped killing entirely at Sylvaine's death (LYTD) and hasn't killed (darn USA!) for a hundred years. In LYTD, LC snipes at Nick for his "code of the past three hundred years," of killing only the "guilty. Therefore, Nick instituted that code not too long after Alyssa's death. Yes, Nick has regretted his choice from the beginning, but during his early years, and particularly his century with Janette, he was able to suppress his doubts and give himself over to the vampire. Then Janette left him, he married Alyssa, probably on the rebound, accidentally killed her, and, within a century, instituted his "code." As far as I know, we were never given a solid beginning to that "code," as we were to the end of killing and, presumably, the beginning of cow blood, in LYTD. I may be knotting strings that had better hang singly, but it seems logical to trace the beginning of Nick's tortured guilt not only to Alyssa's death, but to Janette leaving him. He tends to instinctively rebel against LC and conform to Janette, and with her gone at that critical juncture.... Thoughts? *** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) *** ** Knightie *** Light Cousin *** Fleur-Booster ** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:13:59 EDT From: Lisa McDavid <D020214@v.......> Subject: Mummies in Ok, so we'll pitch the networks a spin-off about Divia's Master, who might well have been mummiform at some point. :) Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble." Lisa McDavid mcdavid-lisa@s....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 16:15:55 GMT From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@n.......> Subject: Re: NatPack birthdays On Jun 04, 1996 06:02:41, 'Sharon Himmanen <romana@i.......>' wrote: > >My favorite reason for denying that it's April 14th came frome Jamie I >think, who, when she saw that shook her head and said, "No way Nat's an >Aries." Well, she ISN'T. That's all there is to it. <shakes head, folds arms, looks stubborn> So there. -- -:-:-:-:- Jamie M.R. <immajer@n.......> -:-:-:-:- Asst. Listowner, The Smoking Natpacker, ConvCoS, NDNEDnik -->>> Illustrated Webgoddess & Keeper of Warm Fuzzies <<<-- ** List Rules <http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/FK/FKRules.html> ** The Truth Is Out There. Just maybe not in our jurisdiction. =========================================================================
Previous |
This month's list |
Next |