FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9606 Part 7
June 7, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9606" Part 7
TOPICS:
SPOILER: LK, HF & Baby,Baby (6)
LK - Rising Sun?
SPOILERS Re: Last Knight (Nat's Fear)
SPOILER: LK, HF & Baby,Baby/UP
More SPOILERS: LK, Francesca, Fever
The end of FKSPOILR (long) (4)
The end of FKSPOILR (long) & thank you!
SPOILER: LK and *That* Story
SPOILER: LK as Triumph (long)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 03:56:37 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK, HF & Baby,Baby
Catherine writes:
>Except Janette was never pregnant in HF. Just to be sure, I double
>checked, and she wasn't.
Um, how did you "double check" this? It wasn't mentioned in HF, to be
sure, but I don't think you can say "Janette was *never* pregnant".
For one thing, Janette was a vampire so had probably ceased to have
menstrual periods. So if she got pregnant, how would she know she was?
Especially if it was very early in the pregnancy.
I don't recall Janette saying how long it was after she left Toronto
that she met Robert. It's clear from the episode that they had a
non-sexual relationship for a while. Perhaps their sexual closeness
was not of that long a duration. Or perhaps something in Robert's
physiology or even her love for him started to act on her to reduce
her need for blood. But I don't see how pregnancy can be entirely
ruled out as a factor. Such an occurence may have made for hormonal
changes in Janette that acted in making her mortal again or something.
If you have access to a script for HF which makes some reference to
Janette not being pregnant, that might be something to consider
(particularly if it was the final shooting script). Otherwise, I'd
like to know what you are using as evidence that Janette was never
pregnant in HF.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 07:19:36 EDT
From: Tanya Smith <bodybldr@v.......>
Subject: LK - Rising Sun?
I have pondered the rising sun because I believe it is very symbolic.
However, it could represent so many things:
1) Nick has aquired mortality (usually the sun sets at the end
of the show)
2) If Nick hasn't aquired mortality, then it represents death--because
vampirescannot stand daylight.
Usually rising suns suggest a new beginning, a new life. But because
the show is open to subjective interpretation, it could mean death
or life.
ARGH! More ambiguity
Tanya
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:38:00 +30000
From: Valerie Meachum <valerie@l.......>
Subject: SPOILERS Re: Last Knight (Nat's Fear)
This si something I've been thinking about quite a bit (with the 1% of my
brain capacity that isn't stuck in 1692). It's already been mentioned
that the showing of fear starting when he kissed her wrist makes sense in
terms of that kind of being the point where this is really happening,
boys & girls!, and the consequences of this choice can't be ignored any
longer. Leave us not forget that courage is not the absence of fear, but
the ability to continue in *spite* of it; that's certainly what was going
on here.
As for *what* she was afraid of...aside from the obvious, which I'm sure
was a big factor, it also gives one last exacmple of something I've been
seeing in her since "Only the Lonely".
It isn't just the vampire she's afraid of. I think she's more afraid of
the man. Or, more precisely, of the intimacy. It clicked this time
because that little gasp-and-freeze-up bit (Cathy really is just too
bloody brilliant; how can anybody get so much into such teenytiny little
expressions and gestures?) is the *exact* same thing she did when Roger
started getting serious and she tried to call it off. It's made me
wonder for three years what might have happened to her in the past, and a
big part of my frustration with the almost complete lack of insight into
her background that we're *still* left with.
I hadn't thought about it as much for a while, mostly because she didn't
freeze up on Nick in BMV or NiQ. But for the entire series (barring when
he wasn't running on all thrusters and openly threatened her), Nick has
*always*, in casual contact or otherwise, treated her as though she were
made of spun glass. There was a lot of commentary on BMV about the "shy
sixth-grader" quality of the kiss, and NiQ maybe graduated to prom
night. :-) He may have approaced the point at which her alarm bells go
off, but he didn't pass it. This may be crediting Nick with more
perception and intuition than I generally do, but it's always seemed to
me that he had some sense of what she could or couldn't deal with, and
maybe even wondered why. (In answer to the quesitons fomring in the
heads of those who've had too much contact with me the last couple years,
no, I don't think the Nana revelation explained everything. ;-) ) And
even if one thinks Nick is a MAJOR brick, he *has* to have developed some
instinct for avoiding what frightens people in order to live safely among
mortals. And with Nat, that has always meant respecting the fact that
she seems to have personal-space walls that *only* he is allowed inside,
and risking *nothing* that would hurt her and/or get that privilege
revoked. (As an aside about this instinct, I wondered during NiQ if he
wasn't thinking maybe they did have a relationship and he had abused her.)
But in LK, there was no option *but* to cross that line, and Natalie knew
it. I'm sure she also knew that if she backed out now he'd probably
never touch her again, assuming she ever *saw* him again, which I'm sure
seemed particularly doubtful in light of what he'd said. So the alarm
bells went off, and she ignored them.
I wonder what he thought of what he learned about it in her blood.
Valerie Lynn Meachum <valerie@l.......>
THE CRUCIBLE * by Arthur Miller * directed by Valerie Meachum * June 6-22, 1996
Rosebriar Shakespeare Company, Columbus, OH * (614) 268-7986
Visit us on the Web at http://members.aol.com/wiliqueen/rosebriar.html
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:34:22 -0700
From: Swordsister <catheboo@c.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK, HF & Baby,Baby
On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Sandra Gray wrote:
> Um, how did you "double check" this? It wasn't mentioned in HF, to be
> sure, but I don't think you can say "Janette was *never* pregnant".
I made sure it was never mentioned in HF. And I assumed that if the
writers had intended her to be pregnant at any time in the episode, they
would have mentioned it, at the very least when she came back across.
But, since they didn't, I took that as evidence that she wasn't. But, if
anyone has a copy of the script, and could tell me that it was in the
original somewhere and just got snipped for time, then I will most happily
stand corrected.
Catherine
---------------------------------------------------------------
Catherine Boone Knightie HBTS catheboo@c.......
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with
themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon." - H. L. Mencken
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:05:30 -0400
From: Gehirn Karies <SoulDebris@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK, HF & Baby,Baby/UP
>Catherine wrote:
>Now, I do admit he may very well have been left with the conviction that
>no one really knows what they're getting into when they ask to be
>brought across. <snip> I don't think it'd be Serena's case that gave him
> the idea... I think it would be his own.
Agreed. Nick seems to think of being brought across as the ultimate
horror, because of his own feelings. Obviously there are many other well
adjusted vampires. Well, uh ... we've seen a few anyway. My point is,
Nat was saying she was ready to do whatever it took to be with him
in the fullest sense. The way she said "Forever" set it in stone for me.
He disreguarded her desires for his own feelings. It is his power to
give, but they did not spend enough time calmly talking the options
over and reaching agreed upon objectives. She was desperate
Neither of them were thinking straight.
I think the scene by Tracy's bed is not so clear cut. He seemed
to me to be hesitating, if Nat hadn't come in he may have talked himself
out of it. She talked him out of it easily enough. And she made it clear
there, as well, that she was willing to become like him, if that was what
it took to be with him.
I'm always stuck on the bit in NIQ where Nick didn't know he was a
vampire and ate with no repercussions, yet the sun sizzled his britches.
What the heck was that all about? Unless we are to believe that the
protien shakes were building up some kind of resistance.
Nat was already desperate there, and her frustration showed earlier
when she chided him (In HoD) about being dense to the clue of
Ellen/Monica/whoever somehow overcoming her vampire "handicaps"
in her twisted mind. Nat would be happy with a Nick who had
permanant brain damage and forgot not only what he was, but where
he has been and what he has done. She was soooo p.o.ed when he
mentioned the composer at the piano, like she just doesn't want to hear
it anymore. Nat wants Nick and would take a Nick who was a
functioning schizo.
I'm not flaming Nat ... yet, but she's needed to see a shrink for a while.
She obviously doesn't have anyone to reason out her unwellness love
issues with, and hasn't been working them out as well on screen as she
does in Fan Fic. (Can you say Physical Therapy, Nat? ~[by Ophelia5])
They have been too afraid to take the Vampire by the horns.
Now, about the way the character of Nat has been used in this series,
I won't get into serial killer boyfriends, totally depressed bloody boogery
genius working woman stuff, that's been pretty well hashed out. I was
not a Listie when Undue Process aired, so I don't know if this has been
covered and the oldies will cringe in disbelief that I'm bringing it up....
I never re-watch UP, but I was taping it for someone last night, and it
still gets me all riled up. Nat has done a zillion things with bodies and
evidence to protect Nick's secret, and the vampire community as a
whole. She might get a little testy about it here and there, but her
qualms are few. THEN, a mortal woman manages one little act of
vengeance and retribution in this so badly balanced society and she
bloody turns her in!!! She "can't be a part of that." Hallo?
A lot of Listies are always on about Nick of the bouncing morality,
but what the heck was that all about? The guy in question killed a
member of her family. It would be like if a person launders their
boyfriends counterfeit money through the casino they work for, and
they find out a co-worker is doing the same thing, but for their own
reasons, and they turn the other person in. Sorta ... kinda....
After all this season's eps, and seeing, OtLonely, AMPH, UP, The Fix,
(How many of us yelled at the screen, waking sleeping household
members, "You *are* taking her *home*, Nick!" hmmn? But nooo
she goes back to WORK?) I wouldn't be at all surprised if CD said,
"I don't want to be Nat anymore, I want to go back to being a nice well
adjusted Alien." I worry about that since LK.
Uh ... guys, it's been fun. See ya on ForkNi-l, if we can hack it.
Red, thanks for all ya did to give us a place to haunt.
Gehirn Karies
SoulDebris@a.......
`"Just a taste ... just a taste...." Harrison Blackwell, War of the Worlds
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:08:31 -0500
From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK, HF & Baby,Baby
Sandra wrote:
>Um, how did you "double check" this? It wasn't mentioned in HF, to be
>sure, but I don't think you can say "Janette was *never* pregnant".
She might've been pregnant at one time in her mortal life 1000 years ago,
but I don't think she was pregnant in HF. Why? Because wasn't the thing
that finally nudged her over into the realm of mortality the emotional
impact of Robert's death? She told Nick that it wasn't *just* about the sex
and the love, but also about the terrible "price" she had to pay for her
humanity, ie. the emotional trauma of Robert's death. Someone called it a
Klingon Death Yell or something to that effect, which I think it quite
accurate. ;) Anyway, if she didn't become fully mortal until that moment,
then she wasn't pregnant. I mean, Robert was in no condition to get her
pregnant by then...
Wicked Cousin Tippi, Dollar Bill Wrangler of the Thong Throng!
*Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix*Founding Member: Unnamed Faction*
"What a Twinkie humanity is, rich in its complexity, soft in its cake-like
exterior. Creamy of spirit, and most of all... delicious."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:08:01 -0400
From: Marcia Tucker <ScFiMarci@a.......>
Subject: More SPOILERS: LK, Francesca, Fever
Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......> wrote:
Quoting me:
>troubles...seem to come in when he has a close/loving relationship
>with the mortal involved (Alyssa, Amalia, Nat.) But Nat did not
>know this!
Sandra:
>>First, Nick didn't bring over Amalia. He killed her (although he was
able to sip from her for a while). <<
I wasn't referring here to Nick's problems bringing people over, but to
sipping, which is obviously what he was attempting with Nat. He never
intended to bring her over when he started and Nat also did not intend that
he bring her over *when they started*. In regards to Nick trying to sip,
what happened with Amalia certainly does apply because he ended up killing
her - he wasn't able to give up sipping from her, although he did sip, didn't
he? Nick couldn't stop going to her - so I guess this does and doesn't
apply.
Quoting me:
>the Alyce Hunter syndrome, she might come across on her own--and
>would she be linked to Nick even if he didn't give her his blood?)
Sandra:
>>Here I must *strongly* protest. Alyce Hunter was *never* bitten by
Nick. She wanted him to bring her over, and he came close to biting
here, but *he never bit her*. (snip) Sorry for all the emphasis, but I have
seen this theory put up before about Alyce and *it just ain't so*!<<
Easy, dear Sandra! Of course Nick didn't bite Alyce. I wasn't even referring
to Alyce coming across here, but Natalie - that what happened to Alyce
(bitten by LC but not getting any of his blood apparently) could happen to
Natalie from Nick biting her, even if she didn't get any of his blood. Nat,
not Alyce. Sorry if I wasn't more clear!
Sandra:
>>If Nat came across on her own, there would be a possibility that she
would be linked to Nick even if he didn't give her his blood.<<
and
>> In Bad Blood, LC stopped feeding on Jack the Ripper and
he came over, and Liam, who was *not* even unconscious when taken to
the priest, also could have been brought over. <<
See, we do agree!!! ;D
Marcia Tucker, your fellow Knightie
scfimarci@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:43:22 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK, HF & Baby,Baby
Tippi writes:
>but I don't think she was pregnant in HF. Why? Because wasn't the thing
>that finally nudged her over into the realm of mortality the emotional
>impact of Robert's death?
No. Janette says to Nick that it is only after killing the guy in the
hotel room that she felt that the vampire was completely gone. I don't
remember her *exact* words, but I think if you watch HF you'll see that
she does say it's not gone until after she shot that guy. If it was
Robert's death that made her mortal, why then would she have said this?
Yes, Robert was in no condition to get her pregnant after being shot.
But isn't it possible that they had just made love prior to that scene
or earlier in the day. Or for that matter, earlier in time than that.
Perhaps her love for Robert awakened some dormant physiological changes
that would have enabled her to become pregnant by him, and it was the
added physiological changes due to that pregnancy that changed her
physiology back to a mortal state (if she did indeed become mortal).
I'm not proposing that Janette had been pregnant very long (maybe it
was only days or a couple of weeks). Janette, being a vampire, would
hardly have expected anything like that to ever happen, so I doubt
whether she and Robert would have been practising any sort of birth
control. And besides that, sperm can hang around for a while after
being deposited before one of them fertilizes an egg (seems to me that
the longer lived sperm are the ones that have female sex indicators).
Of course if Janette *was* pregnant when Nick brought her back across,
she would have miscarried. Perhaps even more of a reason for her not
to want to hang around town any longer or be upset with Nick?
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
Anyway, it's just a theory. I don't think it's an impossible one.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:08:11 EDT
From: "Nigel M. Bennett" <102371.674@c.......>
Subject: The end of FKSPOILR (long)
I thought that I would just check in with all you guys (non gender connotation)
as FKSPOILR is coming to an end.
It really has been a treat lurking here and listening to what you all
think of the episodes as they have come and gone. Your comments were always
insightful and challenging. And they were religiously printed out and consulted
by the people at the FK studios. It has been a true pleasure to "know" you all
in this way, and I thank you for the opportunity.
I thought that I would add my own twopenn'orth (English version) to the
debate about LK. Remember that this is simply my opinion and has no greater
significance than that.
I think that to fully see LK's significance, we have to take it in the
context of the whole third season. It was a season, for me, which saw a growing
disillusionment in my character certainly, and a growing unwillingness to accept
the status quo in most of the others: Nat becomes less and less happy with her
relationship with Nick, and her life in general, Nick backslides constantly,
losing his grip on his quest for mortality. And Lacroix? Well, I think Janette's
leaving hit him harder than even he knew, and he slid into a lethargy (Lacoix
lite) which ended with him HAVING to move on.
So, LK came as no surprise. Nat could see no light at the end of the
tunnel and, in effect, commits suicide.(Yes, I know Nick drained her, but she
asked him to), Lacroix moves on to reinvent himself somewhere else. And
Nick....
Nick wins. You see, the way it felt for me at the end was that Nick had beaten
Lacroix, and had finally regained his humanity. That is why Lacroix would be
able to kill him, because he could see that he had finally and utterly lost his
son, and could do nothing about it. When Nick says to Lacroix "You are my
closest friend", when he turns to LC in love and compassion and, essentially,
forgives him, he is human.
"Damn you Nicholas" is Lacroix's admission of defeat, and Nick goes to the
woman that he loves.
So, for me, LK is a victorious ending and a deeply positive one.
Just my twopenn'orth.
Thanks for all the good times,
Nigel B
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:44:43 -0500
From: Carrie Krumtum <carriek@e.......>
Subject: Re: The end of FKSPOILR (long)
Nigel M. Bennett wrote:
> Thanks for all the good times,
> Nigel B
No Mr. Bennett, thank you, sir. Thank you so very much for your talents,
your thoughts and your consideration of us in posting to the list.
A fan...
--
Carrie, Proud Knightie
The Nurse is a hampster
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:56:04 -0700
From: Angie <alasher@e.......>
Subject: Re: The end of FKSPOILR (long) & thank you!
At 08:08 PM 6/7/96 EDT, Nigel M. Bennett wrote:
>Nick wins. You see, the way it felt for me at the end was that Nick had beaten
>Lacroix, and had finally regained his humanity.
That is also the way I took it. For Nick to finally give up his life (or
unlife as it were) to be with Nat, showed us that no matter how many other
loves there had been, how many trysts along the way, the reason he treated Nat
so different, was out of love. That is why he was suck a brick. If he dared
show his emotion, it would ruin everything. If he couldn't have her in his
world, and he couldn't be in hers, then their friendship was all that he could
ask for and accept without crossing the line.
>That is why Lacroix would be able to kill him, because he could see that he
> had finally and utterly lost his son, and could do nothing about it. When Nick
> says to Lacroix "You are my closest friend", when he turns to LC in love
> and compassion and, essentially, forgives him, he is human.
YES! The ability to love, sympathize and feel emotional turmoil is what makes
us all human. And in the end, even though Nick had felt these things all at
separate times and in different places, pulling all of them together, along with
overcoming what he had concieved as hatred for LC, is what brought him back his
humanity. Although you see bits and pieces of it all along the way throughout
all three seasons this is truly the moment in time they all come together. What
must be running through his head when he looks at Nat lying there on the floor?
Sorrow for having drained her, pain in his heart knowing she would probably not
survive, faith enough to finally believe what she believed, and love - wanting
to be with her no matter what the consequenses - the ultimate gift we can give
another is our lives, Nick just didn't give his life FOR hers, he gave it to be
with her no matter where that place or action would take him. At least that
was my take on it.
>"Damn you Nicholas" is Lacroix's admission of defeat, and Nick goes to the woman
>that he loves.
And also his ultimate sacrifice too. To truly have loved Nick enough all along
to finally not only see what was right for Nick, but to be able to give him
what he wanted, no matter the personal loss. If LC truly staked Nick in the end,
then it occurs to me, that after so long a time, and after having lost everyone
near and dear to him, LC has also gained his humanity.
Personally, I would like to thank you Mr. Nigel Bennett, for having brought
such a great character to life for me. You gave this role so much more than
anyone else would have given. And the same holds true for all the other actors
and actresses in this show. You made it a viewing pleasure for all of us, and
I can only wish you a fulfilling future!
Now - when will that little bunny story come out on tape? ;)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:09:56 -0700
From: Cousin Cherri <cdmunoz@e.......>
Subject: The end of FKSPOILR (long)
Dear Mr. Bennett,
Thank you for posting this explanation.
It was very insightful to our favorite vampires and human coroner; however,
it makes me very sad for LaCroix.
I look forward to seeing your future performances on screen.
Cousin Cherri <cdmunoz@e.......> Janette on the SKL list
lucius fanaticus
Member: CSS, SKL, V Loop, LC
From the Desk of: Sectuib SaySha ambrov Tien Sime/Gen
I don't WANT a new one. I LIKE that one. <LaCroix-Father's Day>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:22:28 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: The end of FKSPOILR (long)
Thank you for posting your opinion of LK, Mr. Bennett. I'm glad you
enjoyed lurking on this list. Thank you for your portrayal of LaCroix
(you deserved that Gemini award! :) ) and I hope that you will decide
to return to the role if or when a Forever Knight movie is made.
Your acting, and that of the rest of the cast, is a big part of why
FK appeals to me; you all invested such *life* into your characters.
The usually imaginative and thought-provoking writing played a good
part too. And the production values and music are also great.
I haven't always agreed with everything the show has done, but I'm
glad I found it and I will always love it. Very few shows have had
the kind of impact on me that FK has had. Thank you again for being
a part of it.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:29:40 -0500
From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK, HF & Baby,Baby
Sandra wrote:
>No. Janette says to Nick that it is only after killing the guy in the
>hotel room that she felt that the vampire was completely gone. I don't
>remember her *exact* words, but I think if you watch HF you'll see that
>she does say it's not gone until after she shot that guy.
Well then that would just further prove my point that she most likely
*wasn't* pregnant. Either way she didn't become mortal until some time
after Robert died.
And I thought she said the "killer" in her didn't die until she shot that
guy, not the "vampire". It's been a couple months since I saw it, so I'll
have to watch again to make sure.
Wicked Cousin Tippi, Dollar Bill Wrangler of the Thong Throng!
*Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix*Founding Member: Unnamed Faction*
"What a Twinkie humanity is, rich in its complexity, soft in its cake-like
exterior. Creamy of spirit, and most of all... delicious."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:26:48 -0700
From: Amy R. <akr@n.......>
Subject: SPOILER: LK and *That* Story
On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Gehirn Karies wrote:
> She obviously doesn't have anyone to reason out her unwellness love
> issues with, and hasn't been working them out as well on screen as she
> does in Fan Fic. (Can you say Physical Therapy, Nat? ~[by Ophelia5])
(This may be slightly inappropriate in topic, but as we're approaching the
Final Weekend, I'll risk it. I'm going to discuss The Story I Don't Admit
To Having Read from The List To Which I Am Not Subscribed. <g> We do it on
SKL all the time, anyway, which is where I got it, and I'd like to discuss
it seriously and with spoilers while the opportunity is here.)
"Taking Care," the third and final part of Ophelia5's famous trilogy, has
many moments which resonate ironically against LK. In fact, the scene in
LK, from the moment Nick comes home, is darkly interchangeable with the
scene in "Taking Care," from the moment Nat arrives in the loft.
It is not merely a matter of facing the same issue of faith, love, guilt,
and control. It is a matter of structure and dialogue. In both the story
and the episode, Nick is getting ready to leave TO... and Nat. In both
the story and the episode, Nat is terrified of losing him. In both the
story and the episode, they've recently been through some traumatic
experiences; Nat asks Nick to make love to her; Nick refuses; Nat
convinces him; LC is a presence in their conversation, and then in person
after the fact.
The big difference, of course, is that "Taking Care" ends happily, for
everyone but LC. (On the other hand, if LC did stake Nick in LK, then
perhaps there's a similarity there, too... he's walking into the sun
himself if he stakes Nick.)
However, though the presentation of LC differs slightly (both revert to an
eralier LC, but TC reverts all the way to first season, while LK goes only
to late second), and Ophelia5's Natalie is opposed to becoming a vampire
where LK's says she wouldn't mind, there is a striking continuity of
character where the dialogue coincides.
Compare:
TC -- Nick: Nat, if I stay, I'll only hurt you again.
LK -- Nick: You don't want my love. It will only destroy you.
TC -- Nat: Just... just don't bite me.
LK -- Nat: Take just a little at a time.
TC -- Nick: Can't be done.
LK -- Nick: You cannot deny what I am.
TC -- Nat: I trust you.
LK -- Nat: I trust you.
TC -- Nat: We *can* do this.
LK -- Nat: There is a way.
TC -- Nick: I'll kill you.
LK -- Nick: What if I take too much?
TC -- Nat: Think a lot of yourself, don't you?
LK -- Nat: [Faith] In yourself?
I found the coincidence interesting, and it made me think that where LK is
most powerful is where it twists what some of us most wanted to see into
that which some of us least wanted to see. Thoughts?
*** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) ***
** Knightie *** Light Cousin *** Fleur-Booster **
"CERK: all audio self-flagellation, all the time"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:36:05 +0500
From: John Folden <jtfolden@e.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: LK, HF & Baby,Baby
> From: "TippiNB" <Tippinb@i.......>
> And I thought she said the "killer" in her didn't die until she shot that
> guy, not the "vampire". It's been a couple months since I saw it, so I'll
> have to watch again to make sure.
I do believe you are correct. I believe the vampire in her died the night
Robert died but the killer in her lingered on until she shot the guy...
//----------------------------------------
// John T. Folden, a demented victorian
// lost in the DARK SHADOWS of an endless
// FOREVER KNIGHT...
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Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:48:47 -0700
From: Amy R. <akr@n.......>
Subject: SPOILER: LK as Triumph (long)
I've been working on an explanation of LK that I can live with, and
between LK and "Near Death," I think I've found one. (I will be citing my
own spiritual beliefs here, so, please, either bear with me or delete this
-- I don't want to debate publicly on that particular front.)
(While I'm here, though, I'd like to thank Cynthia, Laurie, Sandra, Lisa,
Bonnie, Alora, and everyone for helping me reach this point, whether you
agree with me or not. I really did need you all after LK.)
As I said in my first post after it aired, I will let my hero die.
I will not let him be damned.
And he's not.
We already know that I think that deciding to let Natalie die was a noble
and heroic thing. I'm the Fleur-Booster, and I was a Nevermore; that
argument hardly needs to be revisited.
The question then becomes, how far has Nick come from ND? In ND, he saw
his soul, the soul of the vampire, still rotting from the evil LC had
infested him with, "deformed by the evil it has embraced." When Nick
learns that his soul will be judged as it is, he despairs: "Then I am
damned."
Nick, however, didn't really hear what the Guide had to tell him. Oh, he
understood "Your debt to humanity has not been repaid," but he completely
missed the significance of "Can you raise the victims from the dead?"
Thus, I will interpret for our dear Brick, and do so in a manner which
makes LK a triumph rather than a travesty. The truth of ND dawned on him
only in the light of Nat's sacrifice, thus making her sacrifice the key to
his salvation.
The most important thing Nick missed in ND was the fact that when he dies
-- as a vampire or as a human -- he will be "reclaimed" and his soul "will
be judged." No matter what he does or doesn't do, no matter the condition
of the body he leaves when he comes to death, his soul will face the same
judgment on the same terms. This destroys the "vampire = damnation"
equation he's lived with for so long (though it leaves the "irresistible
vampiric instincts = sins worthy of damnation" equation he decided to save
Nat from).
The other vital information he missed was in the Guide's rhetoric. "The
souls of the innocents that you have murdered," the Guide told him. "They
will not leave you until your task is completed." (DoN, anyone?) Nick
asked how he could complete his task, and the Guide answered him with
another question: "Can you raise the victims from the dead?" Obviously,
Nick can't. No one can. No one can but God -- Christ.
Nick asked the wrong question. He should have asked what his task was,
instead of how to complete it. Then and always, Nick has assumed that his
task is to make up for every wrong he has done, to match it with a right.
That is part of his task, of course, but he was missing the other part --
the part about faith and forgiveness. "It's what you're not telling
yourself, Nicholas," the Guide said, reacting to the desperate man so
certain that "this is not what I am now!"
It is through Nat's faith -- in God, in an afterlife, in him -- that Nick
reconnects with his own. He did reach out to the cross after speaking to
St. Joan, and he has cherished the one she gave him down through the
years. "Torn as he is between good and evil," the ex-priest noted in SoB.
"Nick does have faith." LC acknowledges it and then dismisses it in SoB.
Nat repeats it to Nick in LK. "You have faith, Nick, and if it's a mortal
folly, then you're the most mortal man I've ever known."
Faith is the basis of Nick's entire quest, though he has rarely realized
it himself. Through all the guilt and desperation, there is that
marvelous certainty that there must be a way to put things right. Nick
believed himself cast from the Light, but he never stopped reaching for
it, never truly wavered from his certainty that it did exist and that it
was *right* to seek it.
Kneeling over the dying Natalie, Nick asks LC if it is possible for a
vampire to have faith. He ducks the question. Nick becomes more pointed:
"Have you ever had faith in anything but yourself?" And thanks to NB's
utterly appropriate delivery, LC's response, "I've... seen too much,"
registers as the stubborn lie we know it must be. Nick knows it is, as
well, not only because of LC's revelations in AtA -- "I might even say a
prayer" -- but because he *knows* LC, and has finally accepted and
forgiven him.
If LC has seen too much to have faith in anything but himself, Nick says
he's on the other side -- "Well, then, maybe I haven't seen enough" -- and
thus still *must* have faith in something besides himself.
LC misinterprets that statement, perhaps deliberately. He moves back to
the familiar ground of "moving on" and not "denying what you are." Nick
nods imperceptibly, but the agreement is not that which LC sought. Nick
is contemplating Nat's faith, and his own.
Natalie's ability to reconcile the vampire and the man finally gets
through to Nick. It isn't the vampire he's been denying all these years;
it's the man, the man he no longer believes himself to be. Here, at the
last, he accepts his own goodness, which Nat saw in him. "I have that
faith, too," he says, referring to her faith in him -- "She had faith in
me" -- as well as "what's beyond."
He's had faith in God all along, and he's been repenting for a long, long
time. Turning back to God takes him two steps. That's the first step,
accepting himself, that he may believe he's accepted. The second is
opening himself to forgiveness by forgiving.
Every time I hear Nick tell LC, "You... are my closest friend," I hear the
words of the Lord's Prayer -- "Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those
who trespass against us."
Nick accepted and forgave LC. Nick is ready to be accepted and forgiven
himself. His repentance is sincere. To put these things together has
been his task all along. If LC sends Nick across this other line, Nick
goes to salvation, as symbolized by that magnificent bell tone as the sun
rises.
It isn't a happy ending, but it is a triumphant one.
It's one I can live with, for the show and character I love.
*** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) ***
** Knightie *** Light Cousin *** Fleur-Booster **
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Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
