File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 7 TOPICS: SPOILER: Francesca (10) Francesca -- A Few words (spoilers) (4) FRANCESCA: just little stuff (3) SPOILER:Francesca Jane Doe (and GVP): Turnabout is fair play Francesca spoilers SPOILERS: Francesca -- Bravo! ARRRGH!!! Francesca Doe? Spoiler: Francesca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 05:08:48 -0500 From: MS CHRISTINA L KAMNIKAR <VQRW76A@p.......> Subject: SPOILER: Francesca I'm echoing whoever wrote "Thanks, Gillian!" A really good one. :) The following ramblings are fairly random. The actress who played Francesca was perfect; was it just me, or did her eyes seem red _all_ the time? Well, if they weren't, you couldn't tell it from what I saw. Finally, a guest vampire who's up to the challenge. I really want to have that hair color.... And YAY! More info on other children of Lacroix! No guessing how old she is, but I'll be she's older than Janette. I'll bet LC was _peeved_ when he found out Nick accidentally killed her. The actor who played Frank was good too - very restrained. The plot was, well, weird. I'm with Nat---I believe ten impossible things before breakfast, but somehow the idea of this kind of possession or insanity just takes the cake. Why the story worked, I'll never know, but it did. Maybe it was the poetry in all the descriptions of blood drinking that made it work. Or how careful they were about pointing out that it didn't matter if there were vampires or not, or if reincarnation worked; what mattered was that Frank believed it. Anyway, I never ended up screaming "Oh, come ON" at the screen the way I do sometimes. Speaking of poetic blood ... anyone else catch the dreamy look on Nat's face while Nick described what a vampire can get from someone's blood? Found myself listening to Nick's voice rather remotely too. If the boy ever needs employment, he'd do fine as a hypnotist. One has to wonder if Nat's resistance to vampirism [as in, becoming one] is breaking down as she begins to understand more about it. Hmmm.... Also loved Nat's response to Nick's question of "Why would Lacroix do that?" : "Oh, I don't know, because he's evil?" Hysterical. <G> Also liked Tracy's "I dated him once.... no, I mean I dated him ONCE." And the psychiatrist's comments on Nicholas Chevalier: "Sounds like a romance novel." The scene with Vachon and Tracy discussing blood supplies was cool, and Vachon's reaction to her questioning him about Nicholas Chevalier was funny. "Hoooo boy, Knight... the things I do for you..." Although, talk about not seeing what's in front of your face: "Chevalier", I mean, even *I* know that's French for Knight, and I'm not living within throwing distance of French-speaking Montreal. AND Tracy's having dreams about being a vampire victim, and she then goes straight to the only one she knows to discuss the case??? Gahhhh. She's not dumb, but man oh man... **Eyebrow watch: Nigel seems to have bought flowers for the makeup artist. They were too dark, but not out of control Joan-Crawford-creepy. I'm relieved. Really. :) Liked the bit where Frank/Francesca was in the car listening to Lacroix... hey, there's an idea. Maybe it was listening to the Nightcrawler in the first place that set him off. <shrug> It could happen. As for sexy scenes... the slow-mo bits between Nick & Francesca... yum yum! Yow. Hee hee. Another set that I want for my birthday, her bedroom: add this one to the wedding suite from "Dead of Night" in my Best Vampire Furnishings. Although... wasn't Nick still killing people at this point? Is his anger consistent for 1755? Well, maybe he wasn't killing a lot. Maybe he was just killing derelicts, and letting everyone else live. Nick as a PETA activist, letting all those poets and musicians go---I had a sudden vision of him setting free the lobsters in a tank at a restraunt. RE: Reincarnation Someone pointed out to me once that if this were really true, then most of the people on the planet couldn't be reincarnations now, since there are 5 billion people alive now, more than there have ever been at any one time. However... another writer once said that the population of street children in Rio de Janeiro increases while they kill off millions and millions of trees. Maybe they have the souls of murdered trees? ... Anyway. More people believe in it than don't. (Personally, I'm pretty sure this is MY first time on the planet. I'd be much more graceful and less of a klutz if I'd been in a human body before this). One last thought: for whoever else has read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. Didn't Frank/Francesca's statement of "you killed me last time... but there will be another time..." remind you of that poor guy that Arthur Dent kept killing, over and over and over again? :) At some point, Francesca's going to catch up with Nick again..... If Tracy doesn't get to HER first. ha! Tracy as a violinist? Now *this* is unbelievable. :) Christina vqrw76a@p....... Merc FoFoD Universal Donor "Elvis's Alien Love Child Stole My Pet Bigfoot! Next, on the Jerry Show" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 05:13:59 -0400 From: colin paddock <Claudius@n.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca At 05:08 05/05/1996 -0500, you wrote: > I'm echoing whoever wrote "Thanks, Gillian!" A really good one. >:) The following ramblings are fairly random. > >The actress who played Francesca was perfect; was it just me, or did her >eyes seem red _all_ the time? Well, if they weren't, you couldn't tell it >from what I saw. Finally, a guest vampire who's up to the challenge. I >really want to have that hair color.... I tried to get my hair that color and it started to fall out...It was a real mess.... Colin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 06:11:59 -0400 From: Janette Z <Janette92@a.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca In a message dated 96-05-05 05:10:31 EDT, you write: >**Eyebrow watch: Nigel seems to have bought flowers for the makeup artist. >They were too dark, but not out of control Joan-Crawford-creepy. I'm >relieved. Really. :) Ditto!!!!! It was quite a relief to be able to pay attention to what he was SAYING rather than those things above his head!!! As for the ep -- it was one of the few eps I've seen lately in which basically, every second counted!!! I mean, it wasn't an ep that you could get up and leave for a while and then come back (of course I NEVER do that, but still...) Sorry, I have a thing for complex storylines, and this was definitely complex!! Ravenette, Immortal Beloved, Seducer, CO-CFW for Evil MacLeod and Evil Tessa, Richie Reservist -- Janette92@a....... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 05:14:18 -0700 From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca Valery wrote: >I thought it looked a lot like -- naked longing. Bravo to Nigel the >director for lingering on Natalie as Nick is explaining all of this. Totally agree with Val on this. Terrific direction. >> Evil again: I find the argument that vampires are exempt from human >>morality because they're a "different species" rather odd, even if >This is my feeling on the matter. Vampires killing humans is evil >because, unlike cows and pigs and other animals humans eat, a human is >sentient. I think the point that was being made is that we humans are awfully *arrogant* and self-serving when we say it's okay to kill pigs and cows because we assume that pigs and cows are not *sentient*. Not being pigs or cows ourselves, there's no real way we can be absolutely sure of this. Indeed, as to cows, the Hindus of this world certainly have a different opinion, and I'm sure many of them think us "evil" for consuming beef. Which only goes to prove, once again, that "evil" is subjective. >I have no problem, and neither do most other Westerners, with >killing animals for food but I'm horrified at the though that all >those whales and dolphins that have been butchered by humans might >have a higher intelligence approaching sentience. Other issues apart, dolphins and whales are not normally the natural food of humans (except whales for certain small segments of human society like the Inuit population). Do we have the right to tell those segments of society that despite their customs and traditions and eating habits, they can't eat whale anymore because it's "evil"? Which is the more *evil*? Interfering with a society's traditions and customs, or allowing them to kill whales? Or could it be that *evil* is not that easy to define after all? Humans are not merely a different species from vampires; they are the natural food of vampires. Personally, I've always assumed a certain amount of Nick's brickishness this century is due to malnutrition, from trying to survive on cow's blood, which lacks the proper nutrients for vampires. This would also explain why carouches are viewed as a lower life form among vampires: their food source(s) inhibits their intelligence. >And as potential vampire victims, how can we honestly disagree? Easily. <g> The two things have nothing to do with each other. >If Lacroix decided to make a meal of you (and make you dead!) are any >of us going to give in gracefully because it's "part of his nature?" >I really don't think so. It may be within the vampire nature to kill humans, and I don't view that as necessarily *evil*, but being human (and prey) I would naturally resist being eaten. <g> I would add that it's far easier to argue this position as a philosophical, theoretical matter, since fortunately we don't *really* have to worry about being eaten by vampires, thank goodness. :-) Furthermore, I've always been outraged when a game park or zoo shoots a bear, or tiger, or lion because some idiot climbed into the enclosure and got killed. The animal was only acting true to its nature; why should it die for that? Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 06:56:11 -0700 From: "Andrew E. Nystrom" <wo991@f.......> Subject: Francesca -- A Few words (spoilers) Pardon me if this overlaps with other comments. I wanted to get my opinions down before reading anyone else's posts. I thought the actor playing Frank did an excellent job. Came across as very effeminate. Evidently Natalie is a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy fan; at one point she paraphrases the "10 impossible things before breakfast line". Even though there are probably some scientific problems with this, I liked the blood containing victim's memories/experiences idea. It adds to the passion of vampiric existence and helps to explain why vampires so often get carried away when feeding. I liked the scene where Lisa asks Vachon about Nicholas Chevalier. Good "How do I handle this?" expression on Vachon's face. One big complaint: Lisa being the musician reincarnated was interesting, and it is plausible that after all these years she wouldn't recognize Nick as the contact was brief, but shouldn't they have set this up in previous episodes by having Lisa display musical talent? It would have been easier to believe it was the same soul if there were distinct similarities between the musician and Lisa. Aside from this I really liked the episode. I was going to tape it and watch it after I had time to sleep, but got drawn in. --Andy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:44:35 -0400 From: Katja Stokley <cstokley@c.......> Subject: Re: Francesca -- A Few words (spoilers) On Sun, 5 May 1996, Andrew E. Nystrom wrote: > Evidently Natalie is a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy fan; at one > point she paraphrases the "10 impossible things before breakfast line". The phrase pre-dates Hitchhiker: in Alice Through the Looking Glass, the Red Queen says "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast" when Alice complains that she can't believe impossible things. Katja Stokley -*- cstokley@c....... -*- Enter any 12 digit prime number to continue -*- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 09:53:18 -0500 From: D Echelbarger <gryphon@e.......> Subject: FRANCESCA: just little stuff Well, as usual, Gillian has done a Fantastic job on this script. I'm just going to mention a few details I noticed, and leave the deep, philosophical analysis to eveybody else. In Tracy's nightmare, did anybody else notice that her attacker had NO image in the mirror? Guess she still thinks vampires don't cast a reflection, huh? <g> Loved the little "will he/she figure it out?" looks on the Nick/Tracy double shot at the end of one scene, when the therapist mentions Vampires.... And it's obvious vampires have NO place in Reese's world-view. Just as well. Also, we seem to have conclusive evidence now that vampires DO have souls.... apparently Janette's numerous comments to the contrary were just her opinion. <g> Anyway, as always with a Gillian Horvath ep, I'm going to be able to watch this a dozen times and *still* not catch all the subtle detail she puts in. Just had to comment. After all, to quote (was it Einstein?) "God is in the details"... Diane E # D Echelbarger gryphon@e....... # # WWW HomePage: http://www.execpc.com/~echelbar/ # # "Look, I know you're a figment of my imagination, # # but you have to stop sneaking up on me!" N. Lambert # ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:09:56 -0500 From: D Echelbarger <gryphon@e.......> Subject: Re: Francesca -- A Few words (spoilers) > Even though there are probably some scientific problems with this, I >liked the blood containing victim's memories/experiences idea. It adds to >the passion of vampiric existence and helps to explain why vampires so >often get carried away when feeding. No kidding! Gives a whole new light on how strong Nick's self-control must be, to voluntarily abstain, right? I mean, I could probably become a vegetarian if I wanted to, but if I had to give up meat AND music AND art... wow! > I liked the scene where Lisa asks Vachon about Nicholas Chevalier. Good Ummm... you mean Tracy, right? ;> Lisa's the actor. Diane E # D Echelbarger gryphon@e....... # # WWW HomePage: http://www.execpc.com/~echelbar/ # # "Look, I know you're a figment of my imagination, # # but you have to stop sneaking up on me!" N. Lambert # ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 11:13:45 -0400 From: Apache <lf@c.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER:Francesca On Sun, 5 May 1996, Sherri wrote: > autopsy.... > steak, pate, and a Merlot??" Can you really tell what kind of wine?? Yes -- I don't know if Nat's facilities are that good, but I talked to the forensic folks at the FBI in connection with a criminal case I was trying to build once (I do almost entirely civil, but this looked like a murder disguised as an occupational accident) -- anyway, those people could probably track down the *vineyard and vintage (year)* -- has to do with the trace materials still left, like (believe this?) spiderwebs, in the wine. Is there an oenophile in the house? what's distinctive about Merlots? Apache ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 11:40:14 -0400 From: Deborah Menikoff <menikoff@p.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca It's amazing how good the show can be when left in the hands of people with a clue. Kudos to Gillian for a script that once again gave us food for thoguht (Souls eh? Guess Janette was wrong) and accolades to Nigel for a job well done. Thanks for giving us a episode that flowed together rather than cutting and jumping as some are prone to do. Quick general thoughts: 1.) Thought the music was used to good effect. Particularly during Vachon and Tracy's second conversation. 2.) Flashbacks were not only relevant in this ep (and let's face it sometimes there aren't) they connected the scenes on either side of them to each other. 3.) Thought Frank/Francesca casting was excellent and both actors were quite good. "Frank" really seemed to be so much less confused once he "became" Francesca physically. And Francesca was a much more interetsing guest vampire than we have had in ages. Still...sigh...I miss Feliks...<sniff> Oh uh, where was I? Oh yes... MS CHRISTINA L KAMNIKAR writes: >The actress who played Francesca was perfect; was it just me, or did her >eyes seem red _all_ the time? They seemed red from here too. More startlingly so since she was so paled. >children of Lacroix! No guessing how old she is, but I'll be she's older >than Janette. I'll bet LC was _peeved_ when he found out Nick accidentally >killed her. Oh I don't know. It didn't seem so accidental to me. :-) >Also loved Nat's response to Nick's question of "Why would Lacroix do >that?" : "Oh, I don't know, because he's evil?" I can't believe Nick even said "Why would he do that" when Nat suggested that perhaps Lacroix were messing with his head. The LC/ Nick relationship must be on much better footing thewn I thought to elicite such a question :-) >liked Tracy's "I dated him once.... no, I mean I dated him ONCE." And the reporter was such a...a... nebish. Sorry. I'm turning into my grandmother. But he was. He was pesky and annoyiong and clueless and....nebishy :-) (Is that the word I want? I think so but it sounds right for the reporter) Other great moments: When Nat is so busy watching Nick flashback that she doesn't respond to Tracy right away "I beg your pardon?" Tracy "It's right in front of my face . I'm just not seeing it" Yeah and you should have done your french homework. As for "I've seen stranger things in my time." I'll bet you have my dear feloow. I'll bet you have. And is it Harry Houdini week - he was talked about in Highlander this week too. Tracy's contribution to the "nature of the vampire" in Reese's office. When Nick and Reese look at her like "That's a very....keen insight detective Vetter" she gets all flustered and looks away. So I didn't feel compelled to shred this one. Or even to throw socks at the TV. (Dianne, do you think I am getting soft in my old age?). anyway, that's all for now. Oh and Nigel, thanks so much for that in depth exploration of the guitar. :-) I could probably build one myself after that. __________ Deborah -- first cousin, once removed ______________ " I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows, and Henry knows we know it. We're a knowledgeable family." ________________ menikoff@p....... _____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 11:52:49 -0400 From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......> Subject: Re: FRANCESCA: just little stuff > we seem to have conclusive evidence now that vampires DO have souls.... I also thought about that. I had always felt, dispite what the cannon may be on the subject, that vamps do have souls. In ND, Nick is confronted with the current state of his own. As far as reincarnation is concerned, I think perhaps the Nightcrawlers notes on the subject are the most interesting. Perhaps it is the 'life sentence' for evil. Never to make it to the afterlife at all, just go around the mulberry bush, over and over and over... What a good ep. Lots to discuss. Should keep us all busy for awhile. Carrie, Slovenly Knightie CKrumtum@g....... It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them. --Mother Teresa ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:49:47 -0500 From: John & Donna Spert <jjs@i.......> Subject: Jane Doe (and GVP): Turnabout is fair play Hi everyone, Did anyone else wish that Nick had made a subtle reference to a certain video game? It seemed ironic for Reese to be so sure that Manning had spelled out the details of his crimes in the book, when it wasn't all that long ago he was chastising Nick for saying that someone had spelled out the details of a crime-in-progress in a video game. Reese didn't read the book to see if there were any hints on future murders that Manning might commit. I assume that he found the book too distasteful to read. Whereas Nick was "seduced" by the premise of the game and found it all too easy to look in it for clues. Both criminals were caught because of a direct confrontation: Nick trusted in his vampire powers and thereby she was caught, gun in hand. Reese seemed to trust that Manning wanted to toy with him and there wouldn't be an ambush, thereby getting the opportunity to grab a hair sample. And of course we see the difference between a Captain and a Detective. The Captain can call a criminal confessing in a video game "crazy". The Detective is told the criminal has confessed in a book and can say "Yes, sir" :-) John ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:01:19 -0400 From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......> Subject: Re: Francesca -- A Few words (spoilers) >No kidding! Gives a whole new light on how strong Nick's self-control must > be, >to voluntarily abstain, right? I mean, I could probably become a > vegetarian if >I wanted to, but if I had to give up meat AND music AND art... wow! Did anyone else notice the change on Nick's face when he said that's what makes it so hard to give up? Man, what a moment. His countenance so completely changed that I sat back a little. What a perfect way to punctuate the point. It is difficult. It would have to be. What an actor. BTW, I have to give kudos to Nigel Bennett. I loved the way this one was directed. The story is complex and the flashbacks so pivotal. The mix was perfect IMHO. Wow. Carrie, Slovenly Knightie CKrumtum@g....... It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them. --Mother Teresa ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:05:36 -0400 From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca > Thought the music was used to good effect. Did anyone else notice the same musical thread from AA? It was wonderful. So appropriate. I was wondering if we would hear it again. Thanks Fred. Carrie, Slovenly Knightie CKrumtum@g....... It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them. --Mother Teresa ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:21:57 -0400 From: Antonia Mandry <MA97AD14@a.......> Subject: Francesca spoilers Isn't Chevalier the french for Knight? toni m. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:27:18 -0400 From: Katja Stokley <cstokley@c.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca On Sun, 5 May 1996, Deborah Menikoff wrote: > >I'll bet LC was _peeved_ when he found out Nick accidentally > >killed her. > > Oh I don't know. It didn't seem so accidental to me. :-) Wasn't she impaled on a *metal* gate? Why did she die? Katja Stokley -*- cstokley@c....... -*- Enter any 12 digit prime number to continue -*- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:46:57 -0500 From: Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine <vanguard@p.......> Subject: SPOILERS: Francesca -- Bravo! After all the complaining about how Jane Doe wasn't a "vampire" episode, this one certainly filled those needs! It certainly did MOVE, I'll say that. And I'll agree with the comments on Nick/Tracy's face when the therapist mentions vampires. I was ROTFLMAO. As for Nat's face when Nick was describing all that, I vote for her having to get up and take a cold shower when he was done. And yes to kudos for having the camera linger on her while she sat there, but even more to Nigel for NOT lingering on Nick as he lapsed into flashback mode. For the first time in episodes I was not tempted to use "Nick! Maaayyyyonnnaaaissse..." (Has anybody remembered who originally said that?) As for Tracy being Faubert, I nailed that at the first nightmare she had, but instead of annoying me, I liked it. Tied immediately into Nick's comment that "You have a bright future ahead of you." Bravo Gillian! As for her recognizing Nick because she's seen him before, she only saw him for a moment, and didn't even know he was a vampire then. And there's no reason for us to assume that she's got latent musical talent just because of it. What I really liked was the fact that it seemed to me that the tag was just to CONFIRM that she was Faubert, and not to "surprise" us with it. The only thing that niggled at me was Vachon immediately knowing who "Nicholas Chevalier" was, but that's because I didn't know "chevalier" meant "knight". Still, it was a pretty big leap, if Vachon never met Nick before Toronto, and there's not reason to suspect that he had. But hey, if that minor niggle is all that was wrong with it, that's saying something. (I agree, though, it did kind of look like the stress was beginning to take it's toll on poor Ger.) Thank goodness this wasn't an episode that needed 4 minutes cut for the US! I wouldn't begin to know where they would start. ---- TJ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:39:11 -0400 From: Apache <lf@c.......> Subject: Re: FRANCESCA: just little stuff On Sun, 5 May 1996, Carrie Krumtum wrote: > > we seem to have conclusive evidence now that vampires DO have souls.... > > I also thought about that. I had always felt, despite what the canon may be > on the subject, that vamps do have souls. In ND, Nick is confronted with the > current state of his own. Me too. I've always taken "Near Death" as an actual picture of what happens, not as a fantasy/dream/projection of Nick's. So vampires have souls, and immortal (even-more-immortal?) fates to work out. To put my two cents in on another point we've been discussing, 'Near Death' also seemed to say that Nick could cleanse his soul even while remaining a vampire. That was the whole point of the vision of the worm-ridden body: you've cleaned up a little -- expiated some of those centuries of murders -- but not all the way. > As far as reincarnation is concerned, I think > perhaps the Nightcrawlers notes on the subject are the most interesting. > Perhaps it is the 'life sentence' for evil. Never to make it to the afterlife > at all, just go around the mulberry bush, over and over and over... 'Near Death' seemed to say that Nick had a choice to die or not, even as a vampire. Apparently the choices continue even when the vampire definitively dies, as Francesca did in the flashback. Maybe Francesca was so furious at being murdered -- it happened so quickly -- that she had the kind of 'unfinished business' that is so often linked with ghosts -- who knows, maybe Alyssa shouldered her aside to get to Nick in the haunted house, and that was when she started actively invading Frank's dreams. Think how ticked Lacroix must have been -- Francesca was a happy, well-adjusted vampire child who was always happy to see him. One little night of hiding out at her place, and Nick the Problem Child is not only offered the pick of the vintage (wouldn't Lacroix have liked that taste of Faubert?), but kills her for it. On a couple other points: maybe FK is taking a Buddhist view of souls, in which case there would be enough to go around for all the five billion people currently alive. And the 1755 date and Nick's sensitivity to killing an artist: I thought it had been 300 years since he vowed never again to kill an "innocent." -- Which episode was that in? Ap. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:02:44 -0500 From: Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine <vanguard@p.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca >Wasn't she impaled on a *metal* gate? Why did she die? It didn't exactly look like it was through her heart, either. Just tell yourself, the gate was wood, and the angle was deceiving. ---- TJ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:09:43 -0400 From: Larissa Field <rfield@n.......> Subject: Re: ARRRGH!!! Francesca Doe? At 00:57 05/05/96 -0400, Dalton Spence wrote: >Here I am, trying to tape "Francesca" when suddenly, half way through, >they start showing the last half of "Jane Doe"! <very long string of >expletives deleted> <sigh> I think I'll just lie back now and go quietly >crazy. <beat> What the hell, I never do ANYTHING quietly! 8^( I just thought I'd let you know that you weren't the only one who was denied the ending of Francesca. It really shocked me to come back from comercial to see Nick talking to the IA guy about Reese. We must be watching the same station. Any ideas when Francesca will re-air? I'm really desperate. I want to see what happens!!!! Larissa. Olga Field rfield@n....... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:11:42 -0400 From: Lisa Prince <Moonlight@g.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca Hi All :) A few comments on Francesca :) First, since everyone's always picking on Uncle's eyebrows, I figured I'd just jump right in and say that Tracy was having a very bad hair episode. She looked like she got caught in a wind tunnel without the benefit of a comb. Either that or she had a major battle with her curling iron and lost big time. I really liked this episode, but a few things sort of bugged me. Concerning the reincarnation angle -- From all the reading that I've done on this subject, IMVH this episode didn't quite get it down right. Usually, the soul is simply resurrected in another body. There may be memories, as Frank had, or senses of deja vu when enacting specific behaviors or visiting sites that might have been involved in previous lives, but there is definitely a sense of integration between the current life and past life. In this episode, TPTB seemed to keep the two personalities/souls distinctly separate and gave one power over the other. It seemed to play more like a multiple personality thing to me. Once Francesca came out, she was the strong one, and she appeared to overpower and suppress Frank. Frank's physical body became the outward manifestation for the persona of Francesca. Any psychologists who have dealt with this please correct me if I'm totally off-base, but isn't this sort of thing unheard of? Concerning Natalie's look, Valerie wrote: >I thought it looked a lot like -- naked longing. <snip> The >woman is in love with Nick, <snip> And Nick either cannot see this >longing <snip> or he is ignoring it deliberately hoping she >won't press him about it Well, IMHO, if you looked at Nick's expression when he was talking to her, it was obvious that he was staring at her with a good deal of longing. To me, he appeared to be staring at her with a look that spoke volumes. Sort of, I wonder what it would be like to take a sip from you. Discussing the idea of evil, Valerie wrote: >This is my feeling on the matter. Vampires killing humans is evil >because, unlike cows and pigs and other animals humans eat, a >human is sentient. Excuse me, but this argument is truly rather elitist. Just because we're *sentinent* and they're not, we have the right to slaughter them? Since a cow is *less intelligent* than we are, shouldn't it be our responsibility to take care of them and protect them? Animals feel pain just like we do, but because they can't express their pain in a language we can understand, it's not evil to massacre them? Totally disagree with the set up of your argument here. Sorry, but that sort of argument has always bugged me. On another note: If vampires killing humans for sustenance is wrong, isn't a vampire killing another vampire even more of a problem. Supposedly, using the argument of my on-list friends who believe in the absolute evil of murder (hi Amy, Laura, and all you other wonderful people), humans killing other humans is always wrong -- vampires killing humans is always wrong -- so, wouldn't vampires killing other vampires always be wrong? Wouldn't that make Nick's murder of the Countess evil? Hasn't Nick sort of made it his business to run around through history killing what he perceives to be wayward vampires? Judgmental little fellow, isn't he? Yes, I'm aware that all you Knighties out there are going to tell me that the Countess was evil so Nick was justified. But, I might remind you all, when Nick was talking to Natalie, he explained the concept of a vampire's need to keep drinking. It was an addictive, nearly uncontrollable thing. He says that once you take one sip, then another, you just want to keep drinking to prolong the experience, similar to the problems that alcoholics and drug addicts have. Besides which, according to the words of the Countess, she believed she was immortalizing her victims by drinking their blood. She believed that their essence would live on through her. Isn't giving them a portion of immortality better than allowing them to die all together? And Nick, by killing her, killed all the *souls* that she had immortalized. Interesting idea. >And as potential vampire victims, how can we honestly disagree? If > Lacroix decided to make a meal of you (and make you dead!) are >any of us going to give in gracefully because it's "part of his >nature?" Why does everyone always use LaCroix as the example? Have we seen LaCroix kill that many humans in present day to warrant constantly jumping on him as being the *evil* one and Nick being the *good* one? Nick stops killing humans and starts killing vampires instead and that makes him a good man? Later all, Lisa The Forgotten L -- Third over to the right M+B+D+T+K ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:21:13 -0400 From: Apache <lf@c.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca On Sun, 5 May 1996, Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine wrote: > >Wasn't she impaled on a *metal* gate? Why did she die? > > It didn't exactly look like it was through her heart, either. Just tell > yourself, the gate was wood, and the angle was deceiving. Could someone with a good tape look -- the bottom foot or so of the gate seemed to be a different color, like maybe the sharp end of the portcullis was wood? I was curious about this point too. A. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:20:18 EDT From: Lisa McDavid <D020214@u.......> Subject: Spoiler: Francesca Well, since Nat (or at least the technology at the morgue) seems to be able to identify lamb's blood in a subject's stomach -- see SoB -- which is impossible without extended testing and it's debatable if the stuff would even be obvious as blood on first examination, she might as well be able to tell a merlot from anything else. :) Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble." Lisa McDavid mcdavid-lisa@s....... =========================================================================
Previous |
This month's list |
Next |