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FKSPOILR

Logfile LOG9606 Part 11

June 9, 1996

File: "FKSPOILR LOG9606" Part 11

	TOPICS:
	Nat's depression
	Mission Impossible  (2)
	Last Note
	SPOILER:  Last Knight & Stephen King
	Farewell
	SPOILER:  Last Knight
	Mission Impossible (no spoiler space)  (4)
	Thanks
	Not an end, a beginning  (2)
	Light Cousinhood on FKSPOILR  (3)
	Light Cousinhood on FKSPOILR (fix)
	Spoilers/all/What I learned from the Last Four Eps
	...Thief (was Re: SPOILER: Last Knight  (3)
	Addio... & LK
	Light Cousinhood (AtA Spoilers)

=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 15:57:29 -0400
From:         Linda Simon <lsimon@h.......>
Subject:      Nat's depression

Disclaimers: I am not a psychotherapist; I have been accused of injecting
too much reality into my analyses of this tv show; I am CRAZY about Nigel
Bennett.
Nevertheless....

I agree partially with Sharon H.   Natalie seemed not to be committing
suicide when she asked Nick to bring her across taking just a little at a
time. But I am disturbed at the lack of insight that the three lead
characters had into Nat's state of mind when she made the decision. I
believe she was depressed. Nat had just suffered a devastating loss (suicide
of her friend Laura), coupled with guilt over having let the friendship
lapse, deepened by immersion in the suicide chronicle and the autopsy, and
inflamed by Nick's imminent abandonment. She was obviously desperate and
less rational than usual. She asked to be brought across as a direct
response to Nick's threat to leave (cf. script from any soap opera:
"Darling, don't leave me, I'll do anything!"). If that's not desperation, I
don't know what is. Everyone close to Nat should have known that she was at
least potentially in a life-threatening state of mind; and indeed, her
judgment was clouded, and emotion overwhelmed. Perhaps she did not
acknowledge it consciously, but Nat asked for death (mortal death or vampire
undeath), saw it as her only option if she could not have Nick. Ick.

As far as I know from friends in psychotherapy, they urge depressed
patients--indeed make verbal contracts with them--not to make extreme
decisions when they feel worst. Natalie had no friend in the loft that
night. Nick, as usual, was too wrapped up in himself to think of her, even
when she was in extremis. (I can't believe how little that brick has learned
in centuries.) LC was present from the beginning of the draining, I'll bet,
and while it would have been out of character for him to intervene for
Natalie's sake, he was the only cool head and should have stopped Nick for
other reasons--most selfishly that Nick would be a better companion for LC
were he not saddled with additional guilt, particularly over the death
doctor who loved him and helped vampires. (I hope the sequel will show that
LC intervened to save both N&N.)

There was no redeeming lesson in this script. I object to the melodramatic
message that a woman should kill herself over love--and love of such a man.
There are far too many real people, esp. teens, acting out in such ways.
Young viewers should know that Natalie made a desperate, wrong decision, and
that if she was incapable of reaching out, friends/coworkers should have
reached in.



Linda Simon - NatPacker, subliminal Cousin
"I like not the smell of this 'authority"." THE CRUCIBLE by Arthur Miller
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 12:59:48 -0700
From:         Cousin Cherri <cdmunoz@e.......>
Subject:      Re: Mission Impossible

At 03:27 PM 6/9/96 -0400, you wrote:
>S
>P
>O
>I
>L
>E
>R
>
>S
>P
>A
>C
>E
>
>
>
>
>
>> And I thought Last Knight....sh*tted on the fans!!!!
>>
>>   This show made Last Knight seem like a cake walk.
>>
>>              <grumble>
>>
>>
>Oh, thanks, I'll wait for cable then.
>
>Cousin Cherri, you are in a moo-d.   Don't worry, I'm an
>anarchist, I'll get you out of that suit, even if I have to burn
>it off ya,  and I have some ideas who we could fill it with too....


Heh! Heh! Heh!  I like your thinking.
EMail me privately and tell me what you have in mind.  ;)

   Cousin Cherri <cdmunoz@e.......>      Janette on the SKL list
                                              lucius fanaticus
   Member: CSS, SKL, V Loop, LC
   From the Desk of:  Sectuib SaySha ambrov Tien           Sime/Gen
   I don't WANT a new one. I LIKE that one. <LaCroix-Father's Day>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:29:53 -0400
From:         Tammy Stephanie Davis <tsd@u.......>
Subject:      Re: Last Note

Is any of this - the reviews in particular - being archived?
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:36:22 -0400
From:         Lisa Prince <Moonlight@g.......>
Subject:      SPOILER:  Last Knight & Stephen King

Hey, Hey All :)

Well, since we're supposed to be playing a little bit, I figured
I'd give my honest and sincere feelings on the writing of LK :)

I believe the writers of the show pulled a Stephen King.  Now, if
you happen to be a big fan of Stephen King, you probably won't
agree with me on this, but . . . Stephen King has THE WORST sense
of closure in his novels.  I've read novel after novel by this man
(what can I say, I keep hoping he'll learn), and it always seems
like he hits the 600 page mark and then tacks on any old ending
because the novel is getting a wee bit too long.  The ending
typically does something truly hideous to the story that came
before -- the endings of Tommyknockers and IT come to mind really
quickly.  Anyway, I personally think the writers of FK did the same
thing.  They knew they had to end things, so they did it the
easiest way they knew how and by doing so, IMHO, ruined the message
of hope, perseverance, and strength that was inherent in the series
before that point.  Stephen King ending through and through.

Lisa -- No french fries
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:53:22 +0100
From:         "Kennedy, Jean" <jkennedy@m.......>
Subject:      Farewell

I just want to thank all you FKSPOILR members who have made this list such a
lively place! The diversity of views expressed here has been amazing and
wonderful. I hope that at least some of these discussions will continue on
FORKNI-L. As a latecomer to FK, I still have most of first and second seasons
ahead of me (I've seen maybe half a dozen eps of first season, and fewer of
second), a small thing to be thankful for.

I do want to say, because I know it's a minority opinion, that although I like
the blunt darkness of first-season LC -- and Nick: talk about going lite! -- I
have found the characters somewhat one-dimensional. I appreciate the
complexities of character we've seen this last season. I know some people see
those developments as a diminishment of LC's character: I don't. (Well, for
the most part. HoD was a bit much to take.) If anything, I have found him much
more intriguing, his "evil" more sinister, LK that much more tragic for him
(whether or not he staked Nick, he lost, all the way around; he's alone). And,
lest I be accused of lite cousinhood, I have no interest in seeing LC
"redeemed."

To Nigel Bennett: virtual flowers for creating such a sensual and thoroughly
delicious character as Lacroix. He was (*is*) the reason I watch FK. Needless
to say, I hope you will reprise your role in any future FK productions. It's
been a pleasure to have the opportunity to interact with you on this list, and
I hope you'll continue to hang out with us on FORKNI-L. I do wish you
continued success in all your endeavors.

To Fred Mollin: cheers for creating music that so completely underscored (no
pun intended) the action. Since FK, I notice your work seemingly everywhere,
and look forward to hearing (literally) more from you! And if that weren't
enough, you're one of the best friends a knight ever had. The lists owe you a
great deal. All the best to you!

To any other FK cast and crew who may be lurking:  applause for a job well
done. "Thank you" seems pitifully inadequate, but thank you for so many hours
of enjoyment!

See you guys on FORKNI-L.

Cousin Jean <jkennedy@t.......>
"She had faith in me, in what's beyond; that this would be a beginning, not an
end." - The Knight
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:00:08 -0400
From:         TJ Goldstein <vanguard@p.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER:  Last Knight

> author simply gave up at the end.  Imagine Gone With The Wind that ends with
> Tara burning down instead of when Scarlett resolves that "tomorrow is
> another day".  Imagine A Tale of Two Cities ending when Lucy finds her
> father instead of Sidney Carton doing a "far better thing" than he's ever


kind of like the difference between American movies (everybody goes
off into the sunset) and French/Italian movies (maybe a few people are
left standing at the end, and they're completely defeated.)

Or maybe I was just force-fed "The Bicycle Thief" too many times.

----  TJ
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:09:41 -0400
From:         Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......>
Subject:      Re: Mission Impossible (no spoiler space)

At 12:34 PM 6/9/96 -0700, you wrote:
>At 11:40 AM 6/9/96 -0700, Andy E. Nystrom wrote:
>
>>Is everyone else annoyed as well that Jim Phelps is the bad guy?
>>--Andy
>>
>Yes Andy I was sadly disappointed in the fact that he turned against the
>IMF. OUR Mr. Phelps
>as played by Peter Graves would never have 1. Married that woman, or 2.
>turned evil.
>
>Although I liked the movie emmensly, once they pulled the switcheroonie with
>Jim, I was
>extremely pissed.
>
As far as I'm concerned there were only two GOOD things about the movie
number 2 is the music, ie. the original tv theme and
number 1 is......the dumbfounded look on Ton Cruise's face at the end
                 during the last few seconds of the movie
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:20:38 -0400
From:         Naomi P Kraus <npk1@c.......>
Subject:      Thanks

Just wanted to bid a fond farewell to all of you out there on the spoiler
list.  I only got my e-mail access five months ago and I was ecstatic to
find other FK fans out there to chat with about the episodes.

Thanks to everyone involved in the list and all the FK people who lurked
and wrote to us. (Especially Nigel Bennet for his last posting)

See you on Forkni-L.

N.P. Kraus
npk1@c.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:21:58 -0400
From:         TJ Goldstein <vanguard@p.......>
Subject:      Not an end, a beginning

I've been too swamped to do more than watch the party, but with it
winding down, I've got to put my two cents in and thank everybody.

First, Mr. Bennett, thank you for taking the time to care what we
think -- and to expose others to it.  As for your opinions on Last
Knight, I agree -- and I disagree.  If I was looking at LK from,
say 30 years from now, I would agree that it was a hell of a powerful
piece of filmmaking.  (I have to admit that now, in fact.)  And in
a way, it was somewhat of a fitting end -- if I use the rational part
of my brain, that is.  I mean, Nat should have known better, LC's
sad state was pretty much brought on himself, and Nick ... well,
Nick is Nick.

In fact, it's almost a shame to deny it.  But I, for one, am willing
to PADDLE that ferry to the isle of denial, because, frankly, you,
and all the people involved with FK, have just done too good of a job.
You've created characters that will live on beyond the show -- whether
anybody likes it or not.

I'd also like to thank everyone for their messages of hope post-FK,
especially on the chat that night.  While waiting for it to air (about
3 hours earlier) my mom called to say that my dad had finally seen a
doctor about that growing mole on his arm, and that she had taken
a biopsy, suspecting melanoma.  Now, I'm not saying that I regard our
fictional friends as more important than my dad -- quite the opposite,
in fact.  But the effect of waiting to find out what happens to Nick
and Nat while waiting to find out about my dad ...

Well, it was inevitable that the messages of hope in the aftermath
would make me feel better, and I owe everyone a debt of gratitude
for that.  Denial can be good, and escapism has a place.

(It WAS melanoma, BTW.  He's had it removed and we're waiting to find
out if it had spread.)

Well, I've spread my heart open enough, I think.  Just thank-you's
to EVERYONE, whether I've agreed with them or not.  The discussions
have kept me sane through many a stressful situation!

And I really hope everyone moves over to FORKNI-L -- same topic,
different channel.

----  TJ
--------------------
I'd like to thank everyone as well.  It has been a truly wonderful
experience to share opinions and shoulders.  FK has become an extented
family to so many of us.  I'm glad to have the oportunity to be a part
of it all.  I wish all of you an eternity of joy and love.
       Slante, Sorcha
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:26:39 -0400
From:         Naomi P Kraus <npk1@c.......>
Subject:      Re: Mission Impossible (no spoiler space)

On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, Arletta Asbury wrote:

> As far as I'm concerned there were only two GOOD things about the movie
> number 2 is the music, ie. the original tv theme and
> number 1 is......the dumbfounded look on Ton Cruise's face at the end
>                  during the last few seconds of the movie
>
I'm with you on the music.  They really did Lalo Schifrin (Original
series composer) proud with the updated theme.  However I thought the
movie was pretty good (the break-in at CIA headquarters was wonderfully
done in spite of the stupid rat mistake) but it could have used a more
understandable plot.  Some of my friends, who had never seen the series
came out of the movie very confused (and come to think of it some people
who HAD seen the picture came out of it very confused)

N.P. Kraus
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 14:32:56 -0700
From:         Amy R. <akr@n.......>
Subject:      Light Cousinhood on FKSPOILR

Cousin Jean wrote:
> And, lest I be accused of lite cousinhood, I have no
> interest in seeing LC "redeemed.

Cousin Gehirn Karies wrote:
> Light Companionship, Would that be a trait of LaCroix Light?  And I
> notice Nigel said LaCroix *Lite* without anybody jumping in *his* face.
> [hours later: Amy, Amy, let me out of this beer fridge, I'll never ever
> say LaCroix lite, I'll never call you guys Lite Cousins again.]

The beer fridge is too good for you.  :-)

Gehirn, dear, NB used the term "LC Lite" correctly.  If he had used it the
way you do, in a blatent Cousinly attempt to distress a Knightie, then I
would be directing this gentle reminder to him.

"LC Lite" refers to the pastel-tinted LC of the early third season, the
horrible imposter who redecorated the Raven, slunk around after mortal
bimbos and voluntarily hosted a "strip."  Those who call themselves Light
Cousins have nothing to do with that strange, strange man.

Light Cousins are, as it were, the opposite of Dark Knighties.  Where they
wish Nick to embrace his vampirism, we wish LaCroix to embrace his
humanity.  We enjoy the side of LC that we saw in AMPH, BMV and AtA.  We
:ugu


*** Amy, Lady of the Knight  (akr@n.......) ***
         "And Nick.... Nick wins."  -- NB
** Knightie *** Light Cousin *** Fleur-Booster **
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 14:53:22 -0700
From:         Angie <alasher@e.......>
Subject:      Re: Mission Impossible (no spoiler space)

At 05:26 PM 6/9/96 -0400, Naomi P Kraus wrote:
>On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, Arletta Asbury wrote:
>> I'm with you on the music.  They really did Lalo Schifrin (Original
>series composer) proud with the updated theme.

The music indeed was one of the best things about this movie.

>movie was pretty good (the break-in at CIA headquarters was wonderfully
>done in spite of the stupid rat mistake)

All I kept thinking after I saw the dead rat I kept thinking "Oh! a guest
appearance by Screed!!" That was the highlight for me!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lasher ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~ The Dust    =>:o}    Bunny       *         Les Cousines du Chevaliet  ~~
~ Unnamed Faction ~ Moo Member ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~alasher
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:54:28 -0400
From:         Gehirn Karies <SoulDebris@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Light Cousinhood on FKSPOILR

Amy...........

>Gehirn, dear, NB used the term "LC Lite" correctly.  If he had used it the
>way you do, in a blatent Cousinly attempt to distress a Knightie.

It ... uhm, worked, eh?

>"LC Lite" refers to the pastel-tinted LC of the early third season, Those
>who call themselves Light Cousins have nothing to do with that strange,
>strange man.
>Light Cousins are, as it were, the opposite of Dark Knighties.  Where they
>wish Nick to embrace his vampirism, we wish LaCroix to embrace his
>humanity.  We enjoy the side of LC that we saw in AMPH, BMV and AtA.

Humanity, humanity,  where do you get these notions, Amy?
You enjoy the LaCroix who mirrors Nickie, the depressed angst ridden Brick.
Light or lite, either way, it's less filling. IMNSHO  Still taste great,
though....

Gehirn
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 14:58:36 -0700
From:         Amy R. <akr@n.......>
Subject:      Light Cousinhood on FKSPOILR (fix)

(Sorry.  That last post was NOT supposed to go out yet.  It automatically
sent itself when someone picked up the phone.  How do you all train your
families not to do that while you're on line?  Let me try again...)

Light Cousins have nothing to do with "LC Lite," and we'd prefer it if we
were not referred to as "Lite Cousins."  Thank you.

Light Cousins are, as it were, the opposite of Dark Knighties.  Where they
wish Nick to embrace his vampirism, we wish LaCroix to embrace his
humanity.  We enjoy the side of LC that we saw in AMPH, BMV and AtA.  We
see potential in Fever, SoB and NiQ.  Light Cousinhood is all the pleasure
of admiring LC's conviction, strength, knowledge, persistence and style,
with all the comforting self-righteousness of condemning the evil he has
surely done.  We want to redeem LC, for his humanity is profoundly
compelling when he acknowledges it -- or better yet, when it refuses to
be suppressed.  Yes, Tippi, we are having our cake and eating it, too.
        :-)  And the frosting is positively yummy.  :-)
Nick would be a Light Cousin.... Uncle would be a Dark Knightie....

And, in case anyone forgets, the Light Cousin FAQ is coming soon,
preferably by AoLC Lisa Prince's birthday... on Wednesday... the 12th...
<g> (got that?) <g>

*** Amy, Lady of the Knight  (akr@n.......) ***
         "And Nick.... Nick wins."  -- NB
** Knightie *** Light Cousin *** Fleur-Booster **
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 15:03:06 -0700
From:         "Andy E. Nystrom" <wo991@f.......>
Subject:      Re: Mission Impossible (no spoiler space)

On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, Naomi P Kraus wrote:
> >
> > I'm with you on the music.  They really did Lalo Schifrin (Original
> series composer) proud with the updated theme.  However I thought the
> movie was pretty good (the break-in at CIA headquarters was wonderfully
> done in spite of the stupid rat mistake) but it could have used a more
> understandable plot.  Some of my friends, who had never seen the series
> came out of the movie very confused (and come to think of it some people
> who HAD seen the picture came out of it very confused)
>
 The break in was my favorite part of the movie.
 A couple of people I knew who had never seen the TV show atually loved
the movie, but one of the two at least is a diehard Tom Cruise fan and
neither had seen the TV show (and thus weren't upset about what was done
was Jim).
 Maybe that wasn't the real Jim but a villain who managed to replace the
real Phelps. Quite possible: none of the other team members were in this
film (1960s or 1980s) so the villain might just be some guy claiming to
be Phelps. He wouldn't even need a latex mask if they hadn't seen the real
McCoy. (let's face it: Voight and Graves don't look all that much alike).
Perhaps bring in Graves in a sequel as the one true Jim Phelps.
--Andy, who ius enjoying this free for all and is beginning to think it
wouldn't be that bad an idea for someone to set up a more permanent Any
Subject list, or even a General Entertainment list.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:08:56 -0500
From:         "Stephanie S. Babbitt" <stephanie.babbitt@g.......>
Subject:      Re: Not an end, a beginning

Well, I've got to add my parting comments before this list takes its
*temporary hiatus*. I flatly refuse to believe it's over for good--TJ,
before you launch that ferry to the Isle of Denial, wait for me!

This list has provided the most intriguing, articulate, and
thought-provoking discussion in which I have ever had the pleasure to
participate. I humbly bow to all the fascinating people here and offer my
sincere thanks to everyone for the entertainment (and for not tracking me
down and shooting me for being so bloody opinionated).

Special note to Mr. Bennett: Only rarely do we in the viewing world get the
feeling that someone on your side of the camera gives a flying whirl what
we think or feel about the material we see. You have shown in many ways
that this is more than just another job to you. Thank you for your
participation (and especially for that last, thoughtful post). You have
earned my honest respect, something which I rarely afford "public figures."

I hope to see all the familiar names continuing to post on FORKNI-L. And
remember, if you don't join us on that list, we know where to find you. <g>

It's been real!
Stephanie Babbitt, Vaquera
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:11:08 -0600
From:         Deb <drowland@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoilers/all/What I learned from the Last Four Eps

>>Now where to put the Roman bust...?
>
>On a flower stand to the side of the portrait of Janette! :)


NO, no, no. On the steamer trunk of course.

(P.S. Thanks Mr.Bennett for caring enough to say goodbye. You have a
lifelong fan in me.)

Deb     Knightie with strong Cousinly urges.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:27:45 -0600
From:         Deb <drowland@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Mission Impossible

If you guys want to talk with people who are *REALLY* mad about Mission
Impossible, try Channel_D@u........ It's the list for the Fans From
U.N.C.L.E.

Deb   Knightie with strong Cousinly urges
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 15:26:28 -0700
From:         Idalia Kakesako <idaliak@i.......>
Subject:      Re: Light Cousinhood on FKSPOILR

Amy explained:

>>"LC Lite" refers to the pastel-tinted LC of the early third season, Those
>who call themselves Light Cousins have nothing to do with that strange,
>strange man.
>>Light Cousins are, as it were, the opposite of Dark Knighties.  Where they
>>wish Nick to embrace his vampirism, we wish LaCroix to embrace his
>>humanity.  We enjoy the side of LC that we saw in AMPH, BMV and AtA.

To which Gehirn replied:

>Humanity, humanity,  where do you get these notions, Amy?

        I'm obviously not Amy, Gehirn ... but what about LC's feelings for
Fleur in BMV (*not* the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, mind you), Ashes to Ashes
& other episodes Amy has listed in another note.

>You enjoy the LaCroix who mirrors Nickie, the depressed angst ridden Brick.

        *I* wouldn't say that.  *I* like the strong, powerful LaCroix ...
but I detested his one-dimensional mustachioed villain qualities of first
season.  When I saw him in BMV & AMPH, though, I started realizing he wasn't
so "evil" after all, and I began to appreciate his other qualities.  I don't
necessarily speak for Amy, but I don't think she would want LC as another
Brick in the Wall O' Angst.

>Light or lite, either way, it's less filling. IMNSHO

        As you said, that's *your* opinion.

> Still taste great, though....

        Yes it does!  You sure you don't want a piece?  <eg>

--
Idalia Kakesako  <idaliak@i.......>
Light Cousin, NatPacker, N&N Packer
(not necessarily in that order)

temporary Hander of Towels to the SKL CSS
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 15:29:54 -0700
From:         "Andy E. Nystrom" <wo991@f.......>
Subject:      ...Thief (was Re: SPOILER: Last Knight

> Or maybe I was just force-fed "The Bicycle Thief" too many times.
>
> ----  TJ
>

If you want to see a bizarre movie which partly parodies "the Bicycle
Thief", partly does it's own unique thing, I recommend the surreal
comedy, "the Icicle Thief."
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 15:51:40 -0700
From:         Amy R. <akr@n.......>
Subject:      Re: ...Thief (was Re: SPOILER: Last Knight

On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, Andy E. Nystrom wrote:
> Thief", partly does it's own unique thing, I recommend the surreal
> comedy, "the Icicle Thief."

Oh! Oh!  While we have leave to be off-topic, I recommend the film _Wild
Strawberries_!  It's foreign; it's black and white; it's weird.  It is
also marvelous, and first-season FK reminds me of it.  :-)

(I could probably draw a dark parallel with LK, but as the odds are
pretty good none of you have seen the movie in question, I won't. <g>)

*** Amy, Lady of the Knight  (akr@n.......) ***
         "And Nick.... Nick wins."  -- NB
** Knightie *** Light Cousin *** Fleur-Booster **
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:58:58 -0400
From:         Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject:      Addio... & LK

        I'm going to miss FK Spoiler, because it's been a long and
interesting conversation.  Ave atque vale, list, and cheers to everyone
for all the fun.

about Last Knight

        I still find myself unable to "read" Last Knight as anything but
real-life:  this is this particular group of creative people closing out
their series while in the throes of exhaustion.  What GWD meant to do with
the film-school-Fellini camera angles I will never know; maybe he'll tell
someone if that was meant to be Nat's angle, Nick's angle, or some kind of
prefiguration throughout the episode; the 'seasick shot' -- well, it was
just seasick for me.  I have to say I preferred Nigel Bennett's
straightforward directing to the moody, and kind of rushed, feeling of LK.
And I liked Jon Cassar's both crispy- professional and artsy-beautiful
work in "Ashes" best of all -- but everyone was on their best form for
that episode, with the possible exception of Lisa Ryder.

        I loved the LK script (was one of those who saw the early draft
with the Romeo & Juliet tag and the shot cues saying Nick bites a second
time and we see him slump -- though even then, we never saw exactly where
the stake hit and we would have been free to imagine Lacroix clonked him
over the head as he so richly deserved).  If this were a novel, I would
find the end very satisfying, because it would in fact be the final act of
a tragedy:  act three, or five, in which all previous action is
recapitulated on a larger canvas and nearly everyone dies.

        But it's a television show, and the people who made it knew well
that there was a substantial body of fans who preferred to see their
characters remain among the living, or undead.  Right away they had to
choose whether they were going to have an actual conclusion to the story,
or let the characters go through yet another cop story and go into rerun
limbo with everything unresolved.  In opting for closure, they had the
choice of 1] happy ending -- utterly implausible; 2] unhappy but not
implosively destructive ending -- true to the series' nature, but not
unkind to anyone's fantasies; and 3] carnage.  And the winner is.....

        It begins with a suicide named for the president of the formal fan
organization who has written an "I don't have a life" note to a character
on the show who is prone to depression.  The fallout from this event --
all of it -- seems not only depressing to fans, but actually a mirror of
depression relating to the close of the show, if you guys will forgive my
little amateur psychiatry.  Nick, Nat, and Lacroix all act on impulses, or
motivations, that are thickly mixed with despair about the development of
their lives within the confines of that script, this year, and the whole
series.  It has a beauty, but it is a beauty fueled by destruction, and
self-destruction.

        It's interesting; so often with entertainment the story is that
you enjoy it, but don't respect it.  I respect Last Knight very, very
much, and can understand why the creative team that made it is proud -- it
was a beautiful piece of writing at every stage -- but I can't enjoy it.
Don't suppose I ever will.  If I hadn't gotten to the point where I
*loved* Forever Knight as a fan (something that has happened to me exactly
three times, with the original Star Trek, and the film Buckaroo Banzai,
and now this, to which my 20-years-younger sister introduced me, greatly
against my will at the time), I would be able to like "Last Knight" for
its artistry.  As it is, I can't look past the message implicit in the
suicide's being named for the fandom -- it was like a note from Paragon
that said, 'well, at least we can all die together.' And it sucks the
sense of fun out of the experience, something I hope to recover as reruns
roll on and the cut scabs over.

        And hey, it's TV.  "How did I get out of Reichenbach Falls?"
Sherlock Holmes echoes.  "Quite simple, my dear Watson:  I was never in
them."

        And I'd rather have one Forever Knight, self-immolating conclusion
and all, than a gazillion regular TV shows.


Apache


=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 19:18:55 -0400
From:         TJ Goldstein <vanguard@p.......>
Subject:      Re: ...Thief (was Re: SPOILER: Last Knight

Amy R. wrote:


> Oh! Oh!  While we have leave to be off-topic, I recommend the film _Wild
> Strawberries_!  It's foreign; it's black and white; it's weird.  It is
> also marvelous, and first-season FK reminds me of it.  :-)

OK, if we're on the topic of weird foreign (to us Americans) films,
try _Subway_ witha VERY young Christopher Lambert.  But you have to
see it subtitled in the original French -- the dubbing is terrible.

----  TJ
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:39:55 -0700
From:         Amy R. <akr@n.......>
Subject:      Re: Light Cousinhood (AtA Spoilers)

On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, Idalia Kakesako wrote:
> >You enjoy the LaCroix who mirrors Nickie, the depressed angst-ridden Brick.
> *I* wouldn't say that.  *I* like the strong, powerful LaCroix ...
> I don't necessarily speak for Amy, but I don't think she would want LC as
> another Brick in the Wall O' Angst.

Idalia speaks for me at least as well as I do for her.  (And it's nice to
see her delurking just in time, isn't it?) In asking that LC learn from
Nick's quest, I am in no way implying that I want him to become another
Nick.  I love Nick best; I am a Knightie first, foremost and always; if
I'm going to play in War VII, I'm doing it from the loft.  HOWEVER, even
though we've seen LC's previously impenetrable facade shaken by self-doubt
in AtA, self-certainty is still one of the traits that define LC.

I may want to redeem LC (in theory; in practice, it would harm the story)
but I don't want to change him.  If LC were to decide that killing was
wrong, he would simply stop killing.  Unlike Nick, he wouldn't look back
and grieve over actions that predate the decision.  Unlike Nick, he
wouldn't waver once the decision was made.  AtA is only the third time
we've seen LC show regret, and while I deeply appreciate the dimension
that adds to the character, it would serve no purpose to make LC a
creature of that regret.

*** Amy, Lady of the Knight  (akr@n.......) ***
         "And Nick.... Nick wins."  -- NB
** Knightie *** Light Cousin *** Fleur-Booster **
=========================================================================

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Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/