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FKSPOILR

Logfile LOG9605 Part 42

May 19-May 20, 1996

File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 42

	TOPICS:
	Spoiler: Last Knight affiliations  (5)
	spoiler: lk, Tracy
	Spoiler: Last Knight  (3)
	Spoiler:  LK (Lasting Knausea)
	SPOILER: LK Details from Laurie
	SPOILER: Last Knight
	SPOILER:  Last Knight  (2)
	SPOILERS: LAST KNIGHT Rationalizations! Get your red-hot rationalizations here! :>
	SPOILERS: Last Knight (ep 22)
	LIST: rules & stuff
	finding humor (no spoilers)
	SPOILERS: Last Knight
	Last Knight - Major Spoilers  (2)
	SPOILERS: Last Knight (ep 22) Tracy
	Tapes Needed
	Spoiler: LK: Forevermores  (3)
	Spoilers: LK - cheesy rationalisations :-)
	SPOILER: Last Knight, Accepting It

=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 23:27:03 -0700
From:         Amy R. <akr@m.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler: Last Knight affiliations

> Any ideas for the Last Knight affiliations names?

Ummm... if I'm overreacting, please chalk it up to still being in shock
from LK.  I watched it alone and unspoiled, and I haven't yet recovered.
But this question calls to mind my well-intentioned statement of same
regarding "The Human Factor,"  which, while I still bow to Torrey's
brilliance in coining the name "Nevermore," led down a path I'm sure we
don't want to retrace.

We need to hang together for a while yet, realizing that whichever
characters have died or survived in whatever fashion, we've all lost FK,
and we're probably all hurting.  We need each other's support too badly
to factionalize this, I sincerely believe.

Affectionately,

*** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@m.......) ***
"Now cracks a noble heart.  Good night, sweet prince;
And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest!" -- W.S.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 01:35:52 CDT
From:         "OREL, SARA" <FA55@n.......>
Subject:      spoiler: lk, Tracy

Just a note (I was rewatching LK tonight) --
They don't say that Trace got shot in the head, just that she took two
bullets, in the abdomen... and a really bad head wound.
I can see that she took two in the abdomen (although it looked like just
one blood stain to me) and the head wound was caused by her being blown
back against the wall.
But it is late and I know I should not celebrate school being over by
staying up too late...
                             Sara Orel
FA55%nemomus@a.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 01:45:47 -0500
From:         Laura Ruggiero <larug@s.......>
Subject:      Spoiler: Last Knight

Okay, I just saw Last Knight, and still haven't read the folder full of
spoiler digests, so excuse me if some of this repeats discussions.  I
watched it alone, and have no one else to talk to.
I  cannot believe how many characters they have killed off this season,
Schanke, Cohen, Screed, Urs, Vachon, Tracy, and maybe Nat and Nick.  The
only recuring characters left (from all 3 seasons) are Cptn. Stonetree,
Reese, Janette, and LaCroix.
I am in shock.
I guess there was enough ambiguity (sp?) in the ending of LK for Nat and
Nick to have survived.
Oh, gods, I can't believe they did this to us.  There is still <some> hope
for a forth season or 2 hour movies.  Why did they have to do this?
I keep chanting at my TV "bring her across" though out the last act.  I
agree with LaCroix, Nick is a fool for choosing death.  He could have had a
long unlife with Nat, and maybe actually been happy for once.


The only bright side to tonight is that  Ch. 12 started out by showing the
last 15 minutes of Ashes to Ashes, which they screwed up and did not show
last week.

What are we going to do in the Wars?  Set them before or pretend that the
last 2 eps never occurred?

I am going to be a basket case at work tomorrow, I know I am going to stay
up several hours catching up on spoiler digests and all the LK fiction that
has come out this week.

Laura Ruggiero (larug@s.......)
Die-Hard in Shock
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 00:30:45 -0700
From:         Karen Stortz <firefox4@i.......>
Subject:      Spoiler:  LK (Lasting Knausea)

Why in the world do we leave spoiler space on a SPOILER LIST????
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
Okay, so now I've seen it.


1)  What I'm willing to accept from fanfic: anyboby can be as alive or
dead or undead as anyone wants.  I can read it or not if I want.


2)  What I want for series canon:  LaCroix did it.  They're dead, Jim.
Let it die.  I, for one, don't want to see TPTB get a chance to botch
it up worse in a tv movie or any other forum, especially in view of the
rumors early in the season that there was some question of whether they
were going to sign CD or not (I don't know whether there was even a
grain of truth in that, but still, one wonders).  How easy it would be
for them to bring Nick back; what a perfect excuse this would give them
to kill off Natalie.  I'd rather have seen it end with more grace, more
dignity, more hope, and a decent script, but failing that, I'll accept
it ending where it is.


3) Truly fine performances all around.


4) LaCroix's monologue, as I see it, is from Nick's POV, seen through
Nick's tears, hence the distortion.  Very nice directorial touch.


5) Ger's direction:  overall, very nice.  He moves the camera well.
His biggest problem (all too evident in the morgue scene in this ep,
and there are instances from his other eps as well) is knowing WHEN NOT
to move it.  (There was also that little coverage problem with Tracy
getting shot, but on the schedule TV directors are forced to work on,
it happens.)


That's pretty much all that's left to say.

Karen
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 03:40:14 -0400
From:         Ray Heuer <RayHeuer@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler: Last Knight affiliations

     Well, of course, one affiliation already exists, that which believes
that LaCroix brought Nat across, and didn't stake Nick.

     Although, I suppose, the affiliation includes others (besides me) who
think LC brought Nat across and are indifferent about the staking.

  --  Ray
   Nat Vamp Camp

     Rage!  Rage!  Against the dying of the Knight!
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 May 1996 00:46:12 -0500
From:         Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: LK Details from Laurie

>What say we just chalk this whole last episode up to one of Nick's guilty
>dreams?  Or even LaCroix'?

That's certainly one of my interpretations of it.  At least the part
starting with Nick coming back into the loft and finding Natalie there.

More later, maybe, when I can stand it.  If I can stand it.
Sorry, Powers That Be, but you can do better than this.

Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 04:38:16 -0700
From:         Mary Wilkerson <wilkersn@i.......>
Subject:      SPOILER: Last Knight

Spoilers (not really):







What can I say that hasn't already been said?
Technically lovely, well directed and acted.
I hated it.
I am not taping it.
I am not watching it again.
The PTB can rot for all I care (USA network especially).
Sorry guys, it's Monday and I'm in a lousy mood.
Mary W.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 07:38:56 -0400
From:         cyndi knecht <cknecht@s.......>
Subject:      SPOILER:  Last Knight

SPOILER SPACE - JUST IN CASE:

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

I've just re-subscribed to the spoiler list - so I don't have
a clew as to what everyone is thinking - other than through
the marvelous fan fiction that is the only thing keeping me
from total depression.


Talk about a dark episode...the only slight ray of hope
is that we never actually *see* the very end.
Hopefully, the actors had to keep their wardrobe from the
last scene intact....just in case we get a movie or more.

I feel very empty.  Even Tracy's death was not nearly
as satisfying as I had joked about half the season.
(Although the friend that came to spend the night so
I wouldn't have to watch LK alone was pretty happy about it.)
Perhaps because Tracy was doing her classic routine of
not getting back-up.  Dying in the line of duty was cliche -
it was especially cliche to have the transfer prisoner NOT
in handcuffs - could you see what was coming a thousand miles off?


Reese never got a drink from the water cooler.

Let's see - Natalie says "Nick, make love to me" - and he just bites her.
We didn't even get a "Dead of Night" style love scene.  Of course, with
all the loose ends they had to tie up in one short hour...

Well, enough rambling....just needed to vent.  Looking forward to others
comments.  Any way to get a digest or two of spoilers posted over the
weekend?  If so, please e-mail me - thanks.  <cknecht@s.......>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 06:58:08 -0500
From:         TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILERS: LAST KNIGHT Rationalizations! Get your red-hot
              rationalizations here! :>

John wrote:

>We saw the nurse cover Tracy's face with a sheet, and then her body was carted
>away...that seems pretty final to me...(assuming the whole episode wasn't
>simply a knightmare Nick had "Last Knight", of course)
>
>John

Ah yes, but we saw Nick covered with a sheet, too, didn't we?  In Night in
Question?  Maybe Vachon came back to life and brought Tracy across and now
they're touring the continent in a rock n roll band. ;)

Wicked Cousin Tippi, dollar bill wrangler of the Thong Throng!
*Charter Member of the Unnamed Faction*Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix*
Come, dip your chip in the Velveeta Glory of LaCroix.
http://www.netcom.com/~tippinb/wicked.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 07:48:44 EDT
From:         Lisa McDavid <D020214@u.......>
Subject:      Spoiler: Last Knight

As usual, I must be insane, because I like Last Knight and I don't think
it's a tragic ending.

I think, with the human tears and the fact that it took great trauma
plus the beloved's blood to bring Janette back, that Nick did regain
his mortality. Imho, Nat isn't dead. The script says "he has drained
Nat to within an inch of her life." Without the later part where "he
drinks until her breath is gone," the point is ambiguous. I agree with
whoever pointed out that a mortal Nick wouldn't be able to hear whether
Nat's still breathing shallowly or still has a heartbeat.

When he comes right down to it, I don't think LaCroix will be able to
bring himself to stake Nick and I think he knows Nat isn't dead.

I've got strong ideas as to what I think happened next, but I'll save
them for Fkfic-l.

It's a pity about Tracy. I'm truly sorry for her fans. However, since
I never got attached to her, it's not particularly bothering me.

Unlike some I've spoken with, I *don't* blame Nick for refusing to
bring Nat across. She never actually said, in Last Knight, "I want you
to bring me across," or "I want to be a vampire." She just said she
wasn't afraid to die, or to spend an eternity in darkness as long as
she could spend it with Nick. In effect, she left the choice to him.
She must have suspected that, in the end, he wouldn't bring her across
and that he would choose to die with her. I even see a different take
on his asking LaCroix to stake him. Nick might well have known that,
when it came down to it, he might not have the courage to carry it
through.

Anyway, I'll miss the show, but I do feel that the ending was well
and truly left open -- and I'm happy for it.

Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble."
Lisa McDavid
mcdavid-lisa@s.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 07:11:22 -0500
From:         TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILERS: Last Knight (ep 22)

Sandra wrote:

> And LC's poisonous words to make
>Nick doubt his faith even at the end!!!!!!!!!!!  What a horrible thing
>to do to Nick!!!!!

Well, I'm peeved at LC for not just bapping Nick over the head with that
staff and bringing him back to his senses.  If one has faith, how can
someone make one doubt it?  What else is LC going to say?  "Okie dokie,
buddy."?  I mean, his character in this ep was fairly consisten with the
character we saw revealed in AtA, but he ain't gonna do a *complete* 180 and
not try to convince Nick maybe dying is a *bad* idea.  We're always upset
about the lack of continuity, and then when we get it we don't like it. ;)
Well you can't please all of the people all of the time, and after seeing LK
I doubt anyone was pleased at ANYtime during this ep.

But speficially which poisonous words are we talking about?


Wicked Cousin Tippi, dollar bill wrangler of the Thong Throng!
*Charter Member of the Unnamed Faction*Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix*
Come, dip your chip in the Velveeta Glory of LaCroix.
http://www.netcom.com/~tippinb/wicked.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 12:06:06 GMT
From:         Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@n.......>
Subject:      LIST: rules & stuff

Thing 1:  We're still doing LK spoiler space until tonight's SFC showing.
After tonight, no spoiler space is needed on spoiler list posts -- spoiler
fiction still needs spoiler space, though.

Thing 2:  Not a rule, but a strongly-suggested guideline: for at least the
rest of the month of May, it is HIGHLY recommended that everyone limit
themselves to three spoiler posts per day, to keep bandwidth down.  I
totally realize that everyone needs to vent and discuss and debate, and I'm
all for that -- but we're generating some major mail volume here, and the
hamsters (and humans!) at psu might not be real thrilled with this.

So please *try* to limit yourselves to 3/day here, okay?  (If you think
this doesn't apply to you, it probably does. <g>)

Thing 3:  And keep the spoilers out of your subject lines!

{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}} for all, because the last thing I want to do is have to
play stern strict listmum when everyone's angsting, but hey, it's gotta be
done...

--
 -:-:-:-:- Jamie M.R. <immajer@n.......> -:-:-:-:-
 Asst. Listowner, The Smoking Natpacker, ConvCoS, NDNEDnik
-->>> Illustrated Webgoddess & Keeper of Warm Fuzzies <<<--
** List Rules <http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/FK/FKRules.html> **
The Truth Is Out There. Just maybe not in our jurisdiction.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 07:33:19 -0500
From:         TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler: Last Knight affiliations

Ray wrote:

>     Well, of course, one affiliation already exists, that which believes
>that LaCroix brought Nat across, and didn't stake Nick.
>
>     Although, I suppose, the affiliation includes others (besides me) who
>think LC brought Nat across and are indifferent about the staking.

Add another fraction, to which I have belonged for months: LC brought Nat
across, didn't stake Nick, and now the three of them are touring the world
together looking for good black suits.  Welcome to the menage!

Wicked Cousin Tippi, dollar bill wrangler of the Thong Throng!
*Charter Member of the Unnamed Faction*Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix*
Come, dip your chip in the Velveeta Glory of LaCroix.
http://www.netcom.com/~tippinb/wicked.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 07:43:58 -0500
From:         TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject:      finding humor (no spoilers)

My last post before I go nomail again. ;)

We're all less than perky after the last ep, understandably so.  Can humor
be found in the darkness?  You betcha!  I'm going to post spoiler top ten
lists on my Wickedness site tonight.  Come by at 10PM EST.  I am *through*
with being depressed and morose and angsty.  I am a *Cousin*!  When life
hands you lemons, use them like little yellow grenades and chuck them at
anyone who tries to bring you down!

Here's a big citrus grenade to Last Knight!  And a raspberry to go with it:
PPPPBBBBLLLLPPT!

Wicked Cousin Tippi, dollar bill wrangler of the Thong Throng!
*Charter Member of the Unnamed Faction*Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix*
World Wide Wickedness!  Top Tens and Denial at:
http://www.netcom.com/~tippinb/wicked.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 08:38:47 +30000
From:         Valerie Meachum <valerie@l.......>
Subject:      SPOILERS: Last Knight

This is not so much a proper spoiler post as a declaration of faith.  I
expect to do proper spoiler posts, probably *very* plural, at such time
as I figure out who to even *begin* to communicate what I want to say in
plain text.  (Probably at such time as 99% of my brain capacity is no
longer stuck in 1692, which will be another few weeks...)

What I witnessed last night was one of the most stunning pieces of
storytelling I have ever had the privilege of experiencing.  What happens
next, and indeed what happened *onscreen*, is wide open to a million
possibilities, all of which make perfect sense.  Whatever "real-world"
information may tell us to the contrary, for that hour I saw virtually no
intrusive evidence of any conflict or forcing in the process of telling
the story.

Not to say that everything about the story makes me *happy*, by any
stretch of the imagination.  But it is not in my nature to avoid the
unpleasant, and all that happened (andlargely the way that it happened)
was what *must* happen unless some other major changes had intervened
(which was possible, but not by any means inevitable.)  Tracy's death,
LaCroix's sudden decision to move on, Nat's emotional turning point and
ultimatum, Nick's stunned acceptance of all of the above...these things,
while making a heck of a dent in my Kleenex box, did not feel to me as if
they had been imposed, but grew naturally from the choices thiese people
made, in keeping with who they are and where they have travelled over the
past four years.  (And the *brilliant* use of old-ep footage underscored
that--I completely lost it at the "Last Act" scene, which remains my all
time favourite.)  Some of those choices were right, some wrong,
most...who can really say for sure?  And, true to what I have always
valued at the heart of FK (or part of it, at any rate), each of those
choices leads to several different places, sometimes at the same time,
and every possibility exists simultaneously.

I haven't read the discussion already going on.  I probably won't be able
to for a while, not just because of time but because I have no stomach
for bitterness just now, and I'm sure it's unavoidable that quite a lot
is there.  We all have to see through our own eyes; what makes FK special
is that it is uniquely suited to that.  It all depends on what we believe.

Like Natalie, I have faith that it is a beginning, not an ending, whether
or not another tale of it is ever told.  I lack the words right now to
explain to you why, except to state my very basic belief that all changes
are beginnings.

I believe that the integrity of FK's distinctive brand of storytelling
remains intact.  That is all I have ever asked.

Blessings,

Valerie Lynn Meachum    <valerie@l.......>
THE CRUCIBLE * by Arthur Miller * directed by Valerie Meachum * June 6-22, 1996
      Rosebriar Shakespeare Company, Columbus, OH * (614) 268-7986
Visit us on the Web at http://members.aol.com/wiliqueen/rosebriar.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 09:17:55 -0400
From:         Nancy Fralic <fralic@m.......>
Subject:      SPOILER:  Last Knight

I haven't read any of the messages yet about LK and I'm sure this has
already been said, but:

I awoke with a start on Sunday morning - Sat. I was so blown away by the
ending that it took until then for me to realize "Oh my God, Nick's tears
were clear!"  The cure worked (at what cost) but now, providing LaCroix
does kill Nick, his soul would be saved and he and Nat can be together.
After all, all a mortal need do is repent his sins to be saved, and Nick
certainly had done that.

If  (I mean when!) there is a TV movie, there are great possibilities
with this ending - would realizing there is a heartbeat - Nick's - stop
LaCroix?  The movie could even begin with a role reversal, Nat as the
vamp, LC's child, and Nick the mortal.

YKYBW... I saw "Damn Yankees" over the weekend and when the Devil (Jerry
Lewis) and Lola are in limbo, they see famous love pairs there "Romeo and
Juliet, Tristan and Isolde,..."  I mentally added Nick and Nat!

Nancy Fralic
fralic@m.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 09:26:51 -0400
From:         Beth Washington <Beth_Washington@a.......>
Subject:      Last Knight - Major Spoilers

OK....

I've been lurking for a while, enjoying greatly the last few show,
especially Jane Doe and Ashes to Ashes.  Then last night, bleary eyed at
Midnight, I watched Last Knight....tears are still in my eyes.

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
p
A
C
E

That should be enough.....

He's dead!  I can't believe he's dead!  <anguish, tears, heartbreak>

The show had me on the edge of my seat, and even though I was tired
after a long day, I was wide awake with anticipation.

LaCroix was amazing.  His "speeches" so moving, so true, aimed directly
at the heart, always hitting the right mark....they had me wishing for
more.  And though you will probably hear this many times over, let me
add my voice to the masses.  BRAVO Nigel, BRAVO!!!  <sincere aplause>

Tracy being shot, and at the same time discovering Nick's secret, then
her plea that she could have been trusted with it, and Nick's
reaction.... such pain!  This is when the tears started.

Then in the hospital, when Nick is contimplating bring Tracy across, and
Nat walks in and says "How do you know this is what she would want.  Why
is it so easy to consider bringing her across, and so heartwrenchingly
hard to consider bringing me?"  Nat's plea is from the heart, though I
was a little surprised that after all this time, she was actually
willing to let Nick bring her across so they could be together.

At the end, my heart started to race as Nat finally convinced him with
her wonderful speech about faith, and how she has faith in him...and
then his eyes changed.  Oh I was excited.  Though I lean towards being a
Knightie, the Cousin that I am was excited the Nick was willing to
accept who he is, and to allow himself a little happiness.  Even our
beloved LaCroix, though happy to see Nick finally being the vampire he
wished him to be, he reminded Nick of the humanity he holds so dear.
With Natalie there on the brink, he realizes he can not doom her to his
dark life.  The final kiss, and then Nick's final words to LaCroix "You
are my best friend", then handed him the wooden stick.......

The pain, the tears, the anguish..... how can he die?  How noble is his
faith to believe he will be with Nat in death, in an afterlife.  And
LaCroix's pain, giving Nick what he wants, even though he himself values
life as a precious jewel.

I am truely sad.  Even though Nick and Nat are together, they are still
dead, dead to us, and LaCroix is now truely alone.  This is not a happy
ending, or even a hopeful ending...it is just an ending.  A final
ending.  So sad.

-Biffer
(wondering why they had to kill everyone.  How can they bring them back
for a fourth season.  They can't.  They ruined it!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is good.                                            Beth Washington
This is real good!                            Quality Assurance Engineer
  -Tempus                                 Avid Technology, Tewksbury, MA
      from Lois & Clark                         Beth_Washington@a.......
------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 09:24:59 -0500
From:         Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject:      SPOILERS: Last Knight (ep 22) Tracy

Although I'm not any sort of medical authority, is it possible that
one of the bullets that hit Tracy in the stomach exited out her head?
Or that the a bullet passed through Tracy's stomach, hit the wall, and
a fragment (or the entire bullet) hit her in the head?

Also, rather than getting in the line of fire, it looked to me that
Dawkins (?) shot the first couple of times at Nick.  I think it's
possible that the bullets passed through Nick and into Tracy (Nick
looked like he was between Tracy and Dawkins to me).  Nick wouldn't be
concerned about being shot, but it certainly would have added to his
distress for bullets meant to kill him to have killed Tracy.

I thought Tracy's last words to Nick were to let him know that he
could have trusted her with the knowledge that he was a vampire.  I
think he could have done that too.  Rather than acted badly, I thought
Lisa Ryder was wonderful in her death scene.  I was saddened by her
death.

--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 09:30:37 -0400
From:         Beth Washington <Beth_Washington@a.......>
Subject:      Tapes Needed

I wrote this note before, and I thought I was hooked up with someone to
help me out, but I haven't hear anything, so I am asking again!  Thank
you from the bottom of my heart ahead of time!!!!  -Biffer
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi!

Once I decided I really liked Forever Knight (I was a new fan this
season), and after the confusion between USA not airing new episodes and
finding another local station that did, I missed recording a few
episodes!

I am missing;

  - Games Vampires Play
  - Human Factor
  - Avenging Angel
  - My Trophy Girl
  - Blind Faith
  - My Boyfriend is a Vampire

I know this is *ALOT* to ask of anyone, but I do know that all of these
epsiodes will fit on one tape at SLP (minus commercials and ending
credits), and I was wondering if anyone would be willing to make a tape
for me.  Of course I am willing to pay for the tape and shipping and
handling!

I am also looking for the complete first 2 seasons (again at SLP to
minimize the number of tapes). Especially the pilot!!!

If you can help me, please email me privatley!

Thanks!

-Biffer
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is good.                                            Beth Washington
This is real good!                            Quality Assurance Engineer
  -Tempus                                 Avid Technology, Tewksbury, MA
      from Lois & Clark                         Beth_Washington@a.......
------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 13:47:32 GMT
From:         Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@n.......>
Subject:      Spoiler: LK: Forevermores

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

should be used for LK spoilers until later tonight...


It occurs to me that the 'ambiguity' of the LK ending is equivalent with
the ending of Human Factor.  I seem to remember certain forces becoming
deeply distressed and offended by the fact that some people just insisted,
in fact seemed to take a positive joy in the fact that Janette "must" be
dead.  Oh, the anguish provoked by those darned 'Nevermores' on that .0002%
of the population...

Oh, wait a minute.  Isn't that the same .0002% that's dancing in the
streets because "Natalie is dead"?

Well, that must make this an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT situation, riiiiiiiight?

Right.  Hey, I got this bridge in downtown Manhattan I'd like to sell
you...

Natalie is as dead as Janette.  That's all there is to it.


Jamie M.R. - Proud "Forevermore"
While I'm Away: <immajer@a.......>
The Smoking Natpacker, ConvCoS, NDNEDnik
Illustrated Webgoddess & Keeper of Warm Fuzzies
The Truth Is Out There. Just maybe not in our jurisdiction.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 09:51:40 -0400
From:         Hilary Doda <Hilary_Doda@t.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler: LK: Forevermores

Natalie is as dead as Janette.  That's all there is to it.

Nicely put.  very nicely put.  Thank you!
Katya.
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Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 10:57:45 EDT
From:         Lynne Levine <llevine@m.......>
Subject:      Spoilers: LK - cheesy rationalisations :-)

I've just been playing catch-up on a TON of LK spoilers...and I see that
great minds think alike. ;-)  Immediately after watching LK, I told my
companions the same rationalization that I've now seen many times on this
list:  LaCroix stakes Nick (deliberately missing his heart) to immobilize
him long enough for him to bring Nat across, which will bring plenty of
new conflict to these three characters WHEN we get our show back.  (Nat
would feel betrayed by Nick, Nick would have angst, etc.  Definitely not
a happily-ever-after scenario)

Cheesy rationalization #2, of course, would be the old tired "it was just
a dream" scenario in which, just as Nick was being staked, he would wake
up, terrified and covered in a blood sweat.  He would soon realize that
none of it had happened, Trace was still alive, and he would call Natalie,
all upset.  She'd come over and they'd have a heart-to-heart talk which
would make the Nick-and-Natpackers happy.  Poor ol' anxst-ridden Nick.
Will someone PLEASE find him a good therapist? <g>

I kind of liked the scenario someone wrote in which it's all Nat's dream.
Hmmm...interesting possibility there too.

In my opinion, that "ending" gave no closure whatsoever.  It felt more
like they'd just run out of tape. :-(

Lynne Levine
llevine@m.......
Revisionist Ravenette (guess that makes me a Cleopatra, huh? <g>)
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Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 11:09:41 -0400
From:         Catherine A Siemann <cas47@c.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler: LK: Forevermores

On Mon, 20 May 1996, Hilary Doda wrote:

> Natalie is as dead as Janette.  That's all there is to it.
>
> Nicely put.  very nicely put.  Thank you!
> Katya.

Why does this have to become an opposition, guys?  I was one of the people
who cared intensely about Janette's fate, and that doesn't mean I want Nat
dead.  And it does not seem like interpretations of "Last Knight" are
breaking down along factional lines, at least not from what I've read.

Now if what you're saying is "Since there's no way in hell Janette's dead,
I am using this as a constant, a standard, a measure by which to declare
Natalie's aliveness!!!" . . . then that's pretty cool.


Catherine
cas47@c.......
Admitted Raven
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Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 11:42:12 EST
From:         Ronni Katz <ronnik@c.......>
Subject:      Spoiler: Last Knight

     Stayed up until 2am to see this.

     This is *not* an ep to watch if you've had a bad week.

     I am in the camp that says Nick lives.  LC probably knocked Nick out
     and carried him off.  He *maY* have Embraced Natalie and made hera
     part of their entourage (LC Made a comment about adding Nat to their
     group in the episode)  If they make a movie that has Nick/Nat/LC as
     the new trio of vamps, I could live with that <vbg>

     They killed off all the season 3 new characters (except for Reece).
     Bummer.  Some of us actually *liked* Vachon. Tracy...well, she was a
     bit annoying at times.  Screed talked cool <vbg> and Urs was never
     really given much of a chance.  Oh, well...

     I'm writing to SciFi Channel in the hopes they (a) read their mail and
     (b) might actually take up the suggestion about making an FK movie!

     Ron the Enforcer
     Die-Hard
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Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 10:42:44 -0500
From:         Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler: Last Knight affiliations

>> Any ideas for the Last Knight affiliations names?

Amy R. wrote:
>We need to hang together for a while yet, realizing that whichever
>characters have died or survived in whatever fashion, we've all lost FK,
>and we're probably all hurting.  We need each other's support too badly
>to factionalize this, I sincerely believe.

I agree with this.  Let's not split up around Last Knight.

Margie (treeleaf@i.......0
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Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 08:58:00 PST
From:         "Stroup, Judie" <STROUP@o.......>
Subject:      Last Knight - Major Spoilers

Delurking to eulogize Forever Knight...

Thank you.  Thank you to Nigel, Catherine and Ger.  Fred and
JP.  Ben, Lisa, Deb and John.  It's been a wild, angst-filled
ride, full of joy and sorrow, pain and despair, guilt, folly,
and death.  But in the end, faith, hope and love.

And through it all, we've been treated to brillant acting,
inspired direction and blindingly beautiful music.

It's changed us, moved us, inspired us.  I wouldn't have missed this for the
world.  Once again, thank you.

I'd also like to say that I'm probably one of the few who
are grateful that we've reached closure in this last episode.
I'm not saying that I liked the way things ended, but I'm
pleased that TPTB were courageous enough to bring the
struggles of Nick and Nat to an end.

In regards to Last Knight, it feels somewhat disrespectful
to pick apart this episode, but...

First off, kudos to Ger's acting AND directing.  Stunning!
Nigel and Catherine were in top form too!

I'm glad Tracy found out about Nick.  It was a bittersweet
moment and I'm sorry she didn't find out sooner.  It would
have been nice if she could've talked about Vachon with
someone.

The scene in the Raven.  Did anybody else feel like the
discussion between Nick and Lacroix was also directed to
us, the fans?  All that talk about the need to move on, that
staying around would only bring compromise, that they had
"come full circle in this life".  Also, later, Lacroix states
that "staying past our time is death", that "leaving is the
purest form of love!"

Lacroix and Nick in the loft.  Redemption and reconcillation.
"You are my closest friend."  Powerful.

But....

In the loft, Nat pleaded with Nick to "make love to her".  But
she (and the fans) were cheated out of this!  She (and us)
should have been treated to a intimate, passionate, experience, culminating
in the ultimate act...Nick's feeding!  Instead,
all we got was a so-so kiss, a little nibble on the wrist, then
Nick feeding.  I wanted more!

Of course, the look on Nick's face when he finally gave in to
Nat's request and vamped out spoke volumes.  Love, fear, hope.
They were all there.  Bravo Ger.

I'm out of words.  The wound's still to fresh.  Nick and Nat -
we'll miss you.  I hope you found each other on the other side.

judie - No factions...I loved them all
stroup@o.......
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Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 12:12:05 -0400
From:         Larissa Field <rfield@n.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Last Knight, Accepting It

At 15:07 19/05/96 -0700, Amy wrote:

>As yet, in my reading, no one has discussed what seemed obvious to me --
>that the whole episode was a flashback loop (ironic: Nick's own personal
>Hell -- his memories).  All of the commentary from LC was delivered to
>Nick, as he lay on the floor of the loft with the stake through his heart.

I too, saw it as a flashback loop, however the way I saw it LC didn't stake
Nick.  Rather I saw at as LC not being able to do it and is trying to talk
some sense into him.  The reason I don't think LC staked Nick is because of
LC's last monologue scene--the one where we see Nick.  He seemed fine there.
But I do agree that LC's monologue scenes took place *after* the final
scene.  I'v posted all this already, so I won't get in to it all again.

Larissa Field
<rfield@n.......>
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Date:         Mon, 20 May 1996 10:44:39 PST
From:         "P. L. Montgomery" <plcm@j.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler: Last Knight affiliations


>          Ray Heuer <RayHeuer@a.......> writes:
> Well, of course, one affiliation already exists, that which
> believes that LaCroix brought Nat across, and didn't stake Nick.
> Although, I suppose, the affiliation includes others (besides me)
> who think LC brought Nat across and are indifferent about the
> staking.
>  Rage!  Rage!  Against the dying of the Knight!


    Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 00:12:57 PST

I just saw Last Knight.

I simply don't accept it, so I'm not crying.  And even were I to
accept it, there are still so many, many avenues for continuance
into a fourth season, so  many "plot loopholes" interwoven into
the tapestry of this episode, that I cannot despair.  Rather I
have hope that if we are vocal enough, if we make our wishes
heard, we can yet make Forever Knight truly forever.

Remember [the Alamo] Star Trek!   Look what an active, vocal
fandom did for its longevity and continued existence after its
putative "death".

Have hope, fellow fans of Forever Knight.

"Forever Knight...  Forever!"

P.L. Montgomery
    plcm@j.......               (for messages, etc.)
    plcm@t.......        (for encoded files, etc.)
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