FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 29
May 15, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 29
TOPICS:
Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge.... (6)
FKSPOILR Digest - 4 May 1996 to 5 May 1996 - Special issue
SPOILER: ATA / LK / comments (3)
SPOILER: AtA
Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes
Vacancy, and not a moment too soon
SPOILER: AtA - Urs
Listmommy and AtA (5)
Missed original post
spoiler: ashes to ashes, interpol, murdered people
Divia Smoking?
Lacroix, and Divia's and Nick's hair
Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings
SPOILERS: Ashes to Ashes (ep 21)
Ashes to Ashes/spoiler stuff
Slight LK spoiler, & Lyrics
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 01:39:57 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge....
On Tue, 14 May 1996, Tammy Stephanie Davis wrote:
> I find it very interesting and very puzzling reading these objections about
> whether it was right for Tracy to get whammy. Look how often all of
> these vampires in FK have whammied people. Why is this suddenly so
> different?
The reason for which it's being done. The other whammies were
for the Community's protection, to remove knowledge of the existence of
vampires from a human. In this one, Nick presumes to cut a compromise,
and asks Lacroix to leave intact Tracy's knowledge of the existence of
such a thing as vampires, and merely to reconfigure her memory so that
she think's Vachon left rather than died.
It's meant to be a kindness, I think, but some of us have found
it objectionable.
> And if Tracy was the victim of a "mental rape", then doesn't that mean
> that everyone else who has been hypotized on FK was simularly victimized?
> Schanke, Reese, Nat, etc?
>
Yes. But the vampires see it as a necessary means of
self-protection.
I don't remember any other "compassionate" whammies. Anyone else?
Ap.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 01:46:04 -0700
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <harper@t.......>
Subject: Re: FKSPOILR Digest - 4 May 1996 to 5 May 1996 - Special issue
Tammy Stephanie Davis <tsd@u.......> said about Natalie:
> Here we see just how good at her job she is. [snip] It
> was reassuring, therefore, to watch her instruct Tracy with
> some enthusiasm and to hear her say that "the real detective work
> begins here."
If anyone wants to understand *why* a nice person like Natalie would want
a job that involves cutting up people who have died in various unpleasant
ways, I urge them to read the novels of Patricia Cornwell. She writes a
mystery series about a female medical examiner, Dr. Kay Scarpetta. In
the first book, (I think it's _Post Mortem_, but I'm not sure) there's a
scene where Dr. Scarpetta is about to begin an autopsy on a woman who was
tortured to death to a serial killer. In a poetic and compassionate
passage, she explains that this is the moment when the victim's "voice"
can finally be heard by people who care about the terrible things that
were done to her. I think that Natalie must regard her job in much the
same light.
Harper *** Robin Carroll-Mann
harper@t.......
Nat Pack
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 02:47:37 -0400
From: "Tammy Pond [Digest]" <nightmist@g.......>
Subject: SPOILER: ATA / LK / comments
No I haven't seen Last Knight yet. But I've read enough spoilers to
guess.
#
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#
# First will be the ATA stuff, then the LK stuff. Just so
# you can't say you weren't warned.... <grin>
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Yes, Divia WAS smoking (And not, not whakus weedus either! <g>) It
was shortly after Nick staked her and during the part where Nick is
holding LaCroix back from going to her. She whimpers, twitches a bit,
goes still, and there's a little smoke going up from the bottom of
the view. I wondered if that was supposed to signify her going >poof<
but since her mummy-wrapped body was in the next scene, I would
assume not. Oh, well.
RE: Tracy's memory - I think erasing the memory of Vachon's actual
death was a GOOD thing. Why? Would you want to go through the rest of
your life knowing you were at least partly responsible (you KNOW how
Tracy can blame herself!) for the death of a close friend? I'm sure
it's not pretty... Leaving her thinking only that he left instead of
died is a blessing in that regard. Besides, with being a resistor, I
don't think erasing the knowledge of vampires entirely would have
worked forever. Eventually something would have triggered it, I'm
sure. Maybe the hypnosis session in FRANCESCA if she went back for
more than one?? <chuckle>
Yes, I've lost people too. One was my dad, and another (just three
months ago) was the close friend who helped me keep myself together
after my dad died. The only person I've met who, even though he said
he wasn't trying to be funny, could make me ROFL on a regular basis.
I respect that, because anyone who can still have that much humor
when facing AIDS has a LOT of personal strength.
Sorry, I'll crawl back on topic now...
#
#
# Last Knight spoilers and comments below...
#
# ...You've been warned!
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Sarah Welsh:
> How many people are "dead" at the end?
Enough that they think it'll be damn difficult to re-start it.
> How many can be ressurected by us?
All but Tracy. But technically, all of them. <grin> Continuity? We
don't need no stinkin' continuity! I remember the debates we had on
Genie on the SciFi roundtables about why the FK vampires do this or do
that or why being a vamp made Nick do thus-n-such. <grin> I've even
still got most of the posts. Some real philosophizing going on there
for a while (Until Genie did a STUPID and raised the rates, but that's
par for the course...)
From what I know of LK (Remember I haven't seen it...) I think the
ending stinks. Out of character for LaCroix from what we've just seen
in ATA. I have difficulty believing LaCroix would actually DO...THAT.
Especially after Nick saved his ever-lovin' buns in the previous ep.
Tammy
Nightmist@g....... Stocked with several boxes of tissues...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 03:33:40 -0400
From: Ray Heuer <RayHeuer@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: AtA
Ron the Enforcer suggested that "the ancient one" who brought over Divia
was brought over by Adam's son Caine.
It reminded me of the story of Lilith, which I will summarize here.
Lilith was the *first* first woman and first wife of Adam. However, she was
openly Evil and defiant of God's will, so she was banished from the Graden of
Eden. I forget whether Adam's memory of her was erased.
The legend goes on to say that Lilith became the first vampire and
progenitrix (sp?) of ALL vampires. Perhaps it was she who brought over the
ancient one, which would make LaCroix only a fourth generation vampire, and
Nick a fifth generation, which would account for the tremendous respect they
seem to be held in by all the other Toronto vamps.
Just a thought.
-- Ray
Nat Vamp Camp
Rage! Rage! Against the dying of the Knight!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 01:08:18 -0700
From: Bonnela <callalily@l.......>
Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge....
>On Tue, 14 May 1996, Tammy Stephanie Davis wrote:
>> Look how often all of
>> these vampires in FK have whammied people. Why is this suddenly so
>> different?
Apache replied:
>The reason for which it's being done. The other whammies were
>for the Community's protection, to remove knowledge of the existence of
>vampires from a human.
Exactly! This was the point in my original post. Nick is *not* protecting
the Vampire Community, because he asks LC to let Tracy remember the
existance of vampires. And he continues to endanger Tracy's life by
allowing her to remember that vampires are real -- the very thing he reamed
Vachon for in BB, btw, and I am mad because he is being hypocritical!
>In this one, Nick presumes to cut a compromise,
>merely to reconfigure her memory so that
>she think's Vachon left rather than died.
I will give you that Nick meant well! However, he has no idea that Vachon
committed suicide or of Tracy's involvement in process (Nick was *not*
there) -- for all he knows, Tracy found Vachon there, already dead. So,
making her forget HOW Vachon died is NOT his motivation.
So, he asked LC to make Tracy think that she and Vachon were just good
friends and that Vachon has just moved on. If I were Tracy, I would rather
remember the love I had for Vachon, despite the pain, than to think that he
was just a friend who never cared enough to stay and will never stay in touch.
I think that it was not the knowledge of vampires that changed her life (the
bit Nick overhears Tracy saying to Vachon after he's dead), but the deep
feelings she had for this certain vampire -- a man that scared the crap out
of her, yet inspired her to risk her life to help and comfort him (twice --
in Fever he nearly bites her and she returns later with blood for him and in
AtA he throws her down when she won't leave then she hugs him and tells him
everything will be okay).
Vachon's death did not have meaning, but the love Tracy feels for him does.
I think, to forget the love she has for him and/or to think that he doesn't
return the love (because he left and won't contact her) would be more
painful than knowing he was dead (and would be *here* *with* her if he were
still alive).
And what makes people immortal anyway but the love we hold for them in our
hearts. Who is there to remember Vachon? Who is left to care that he
lived, to hold his memory dear? (Well, who *besides* the Vaqueros.) Only
Tracy. And it would be a great injustice to Vachon to weaken the love she
has for him, because her pain is her love. I don't think Tracy would want
to forget the pain because I don't think she regrets loving him.
Sorry -- I need to go cry now. Thanks for letting me voice my opinions.
Bonnie <callalily@l.......>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 02:18:38 -0700
From: Bonnela <callalily@l.......>
Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes
At 12:01 AM 5/15/96 -0400, Ray Heuer wrote:
>Sarah Welsh wrote:
>> Where *do* vampires go when they die?
Ray replied:
>Vachon himself answered that
>question at the end of "Fever" at Screed's grave. "See you in Hell, sailor!"
Vachon also said to Tracy just before he died, "Wish me luck." Which to me
says that he hopes there is still a chance he might go to heaven.
He's not a *bad* vampire, he just plays one in some people's fan fic. <G>
Bonnie <callalily@l.......> "What?"
Ultra-Cool Vaquero Web Page --> http://users.lanminds.com/~callalily
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:12:17 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: Vacancy, and not a moment too soon
Apache wrote:
Me, I'll take Famous Vachons on the Lawn for $400, Alex.
>
> Hell, I'd even give $200 for Infamous Vachons on the
>Basement Sofa... whaddaya say, Alex?
>
BRAVO APACHE, BRAVO!!! I'm so proud of you (wiping tear from eye, pumping
out chest) Way to go, girl! And about what you said about Nick, it's all
true, otherwise what a boring little hero he'd be-so ofcourse no offense
taken!!
Bravo, THERE YOU GO GIRL!!!
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:32:11 -0400
From: Catherine A Siemann <cas47@c.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: AtA - Urs
I *can't* believe I'm doing this . . . I finally get the time to sign back
onto spoiler and I'm going to play my one-note once again . . . As I've
said in private discussions, I've had many thoughts about
this episode, ranging from the sheer brilliance of the LaCroix/Nick,
LaCroix/Divia, and just plain LaCroix aspects of it, to the missed
opportunities I thought there were with Vachon's and Urs' death scenes. I
simply thought that Vachon's near-death in Fever was written in a much
more affecting way that his actual death in AtA -- I think there may have
been too much going on in this episode, but if you're going to kill off a
major character, this seemed almost offhand -- compared to Fever. There
was enough in AtA that a two-parter would have been justified.
On Wed, 15 May 1996, John Folden wrote:
> I really liked Urs, as well. When I first saw her I had hoped she would go
> on to become a half-way decent replacement for Janette, as there are far too
Here's the one-note bit. *Shudder* Urs dancing in her Wonderbra in the
"new" Raven seemed more like the anti-Janette to me, and a sign of how far
third season was going to fall. Cleavage instead of class? Oh, please.
However . . .
> thought she was becoming a regular character after I saw Hearts Of Darkness
> but sadly, she was allowed to fade into the shadows...until AtA.
Urs was the only thing I *liked* about HoD, and at that point it seemed
like they were poised to do interesting things with the character.
Instead, she disappears, to the point that I had a somewhat fuzzy
recollection about what she looked like by the time I saw AtA . . . . When
they killed off Screed, he was still a vital presence in the series, and I
found myself quite affected. When they killed off Urs, they really blew
it -- they ought to have had her presence, at least in the background, in
a couple of recent episodes. It felt like they'd brought her back almost
randomly, for the sole purpose of knocking her off.
A brilliant, brilliant episode, but some real wasted opportunites. Don't
get me wrong -- the LaCroix aspects of the script were so amazing that
this is one of my top favorites ever, but since we were on the subject of
Urs . . .
Catherine
Raven/Immortal Beloved/M.B.D.T.K./X-Phile
cas47@c.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 05:32:29 -0700
From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: ATA / LK / comments
Tammy wrote:
># Last Knight spoilers and comments below...
>#
># ...You've been warned!
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>
>
>>From what I know of LK (Remember I haven't seen it...) I think the
>ending stinks. Out of character for LaCroix from what we've just seen
>in ATA. I have difficulty believing LaCroix would actually DO...THAT.
Which is why, even before A to A, many of us thought he didn't.
(Remember, even in the original script, there was some deliberate
ambiguity about this, though the Romeo and Juliet stuff made it more
conclusive. But once they pulled that out...)
And now, having seen the episode, which cuts away long before LC
strikes Nick at all (that is one thing they changed when they went back
to it - they now cut away just as he raises the stake), I for one
certainly do not believe for a moment that he did. :-)
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:40:13 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge....
At 01:08 AM 5/15/96 -0700, you wrote:
Thanks for letting me voice my opinions.
>
Well said Bonnie, well said. I almost agree with everything you
said....almost. You make a really convincing argument. Although I still
believe Nick did the right thing as far as Tracy is concerned, I admit you
have some really good reasons for not doing it.
There you go, girl!!
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:02:15 -0500
From: D Echelbarger <gryphon@e.......>
Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge....
On Wed, 15 May 1996, Apache <lf@c.......> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 May 1996, Tammy Stephanie Davis wrote:
>> And if Tracy was the victim of a "mental rape", then doesn't that mean
>> that everyone else who has been hypotized on FK was simularly victimized?
> Yes. But the vampires see it as a necessary means of self-protection.
> I don't remember any other "compassionate" whammies. Anyone else?
The only one I can think of is Fleur. And whether that was "compassionate" is
certainly debatable....
Diane E
# D Echelbarger gryphon@e....... #
# WWW HomePage: http://www.execpc.com/~echelbar/ #
# No, I'm not Maureen the Mad; I just play her on Real Life. #
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:12:30 -0500
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject: Listmommy and AtA
On Wed, 15 May 1996, Jamie Melody Randell wrote:
> Losing FK is hard, very very hard, but there's so much we haven't lost...
> we still have the Wars, and Real Life, and affiliations, and list-
> parties. <snip> Nobody can take THAT away from us... not Sony, not TriStar,
> not USA, not the shadowy figures lurking in the background, not anyone.
Um, unless Nick decides it's for our own good because we wouldn't want to
remember seeing FK die in our arms. In that case, we'll all forget the
list address and think that FK was a one-time TV movie with Rick
Springfield that we saw several years ago...
Sarah
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:28:53 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: Listmommy and AtA
At 10:12 AM 5/15/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Um, unless Nick decides it's for our own good because we wouldn't want to
>remember seeing FK die in our arms. In that case, we'll all forget the
>list address and think that FK was a one-time TV movie with Rick
>Springfield that we saw several years ago...
>
Ooooo Nice blow Sara......(thud) sound of me falling to floor in a heap.
Except.....I can't really think of anything so redeeming about having Vachon
die in her arms that she would miss. The love of FK has branched out into
the love of each other....(well, most of the time). What would she lose by
losing the memory of his violent death....except the learning experience
that so many have pointed out. Nothing else in her life is a direct
relation to having him die in her arms or their sort of loving(??)
relationship. And remember, Nick didn't take the memory of their friendship
or vampires, just the moment of death.
But again, nice analogy......
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:32:21 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge....
At 01:39 AM 5/15/96 -0400, Apache wrote:
>I don't remember any other "compassionate" whammies. Anyone else?
Yes. In Strings, Nick hypnotized the girl who wanted to kill herself into
knowing that she did not have to kill herself. That could be seen as
different though, since the desire to kill herself was put into her head
by the psychiatrist in the first place. In the flashback in Avenging Angel,
Nick tried to hypnotize the concubine into leaving the master who treated
her cruelly, but that one didn't take. It was certainly an attempt at a
compassionate whammy, though. Also in Avenging Angel, Nick hypnotized the
news reporter into leaving the woman's shelter, not for the reporter's sake,
but for the sake of the woman who ran the shelter and the women who were
staying there. That one succeeded temporarily, but the guy was back the
next night or a couple of nights later.
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:10:05 -0400
From: Mary Dutterer <Vulkurt@a.......>
Subject: Missed original post
Someone posted something about a blooper script for "Last Knight" and said
that a copy could be acquired for a contribution. Would whoever is in charge
of this please e-mail me? I'm ready to contribute.
Vulkurt@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 09:30:27 PDT
From: "Leslie I.Plummer" <lplummer@i.......>
Subject: Re: spoiler: ashes to ashes, interpol, murdered people
>Dotti mentioned that the quick id. is plausible. I'm not all that sure
>of it. Just the whole thing seemed very implausible, and the idea that
>the Toronto P.D. would even check Interpol immediately &get a positive id.
--how about if the body of the Egyptian had ID or other identifying papers
on him? Perhaps Divia was real thorough, but I think she was more
interested in reaching HER goal, getting clothes, getting to Toronto,
etc. before sunset, that she may have just left the body & effects as is.
Between any ID on the body & the guy being on the Interpol anyway, might
not this explain why Toronto would call Interpol & then get a positive
ID quickly? Half of the copshop background chat between Reese & his
staff is in researching this or checking that fact out... (Tracy did
alot of this! Remember Jane Doe: checking missing persons minutia &
Dead of Night: going back 25 years in Who's Who in Ohio to find a link
between the two partners!!!)
Just a hypthisis.. I like it when plot is plausible!
Leslie
***FOREVER MEANS...FOREVER!!!***
Charter N&NPacker!
Wildly Romantic & Fiercely Optimistic!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:28:33 -0400
From: Marf Shopmyer <aa108460@d.......>
Subject: Divia Smoking?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:28:01 -0400
From: L-Soft list server at PSUVM (1.8b) <LISTSERV@p.......>
To: Marf Shopmyer <aa108460@d.......>
Subject: File: "DATABASE OUTPUT"
At 12:31 PM 5/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I was very curious when I saw Divia smoking without her body actually
>going up in ashes. Any thoughts?
>
When was she smoking? Did I miss something again?
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
Smoking? Doesn't she know that could stunt her growth?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:39:47 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: Listmommy and AtA
On Wed, 15 May 1996, Sarah Welsh wrote:
> Um, unless Nick decides it's for our own good because we wouldn't want to
> remember seeing FK die in our arms. In that case, we'll all ...
> think that FK was a one-time TV movie with Rick
> Springfield that we saw several years ago...
Aaaaaaaaauuuuuggghh!
I think this deserves to be the last word on the memory-wipe
argument <g>.
Ap.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 09:48:45 -0700
From: Karen Stortz <firefox4@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: ATA / LK / comments
"Last Knight" comments and questions below. You have been warned!
1
1
1
1
1
1
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>>From what I know of LK...I think the ending stinks. . . I have
>>difficulty believing LaCroix would actually DO...THAT.
>(...even in the original script, there was some deliberate
>ambiguity about this...the Romeo and Juliet stuff made it more
>conclusive. But once they pulled that out...)
Ack-- I must have re-subscribed to the spoiler list in the middle of
this discussion--- what the h*** is going on in this ep? From what I
can infer, LaCroix stakes Nick???
That would be a really STUPID ending to the series. Nick becomes
mortal? I'm okay with that. Nick becomes mortal and then dies
(preferably in the course of some noble deed)-- I wouldn't like it, but
I could learn to live with it. Nat becomes a vamp and she and Nick
move on while she continues to seek a cure for them both-- I could even
live with that. Nick gets killed while still a vampire? NO WAY! It's
a total defeat--death without redemption, which was always his TRUE
goal. Every time I get my hopes up regarding this show's potential,
the powers-that-be manage to screw up the premise all over again. I
can't tell from the little I've seen on the list so far how they end
this, but I sense major disappointment in the works....
And what's all that about deliberate ambiguity, Romeo and Juliet stuff,
stuff pulled out, and changes? Please explain this before I go nuts!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:17:27 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Lacroix, and Divia's and Nick's hair
On Tue, 14 May 1996, Sandra Chew wrote:
> I just finished watching AtA again, and is it just me, or does Divia's
> hairstyle look like Nick's--espcially in the last scene when Divia is
> talking to LC? They both seem to have dry ends, with similar combed back
> styles...
At last, the missing link that caused Lacroix to choose Nick for
his son.... his hair!
Given Lacroix's own experimentations with the Q-tip look, the
I'm-immortal-this-is-not-an-expanding-balding-spot issue (grounds for a
"compassionate" whammy if I ever saw one), and the Joan Crawford no Bette
Davis no all my very own eyebrow look, I'd say this is a tenable theory.
Ap.
ducking those Cousinly slings and arrows
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:52:45 -0400
From: Gehirn Karies <SoulDebris@a.......>
Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge....
Bonnie wrote:
>I think that it was not the knowledge of vampires that changed her life (the
>bit Nick overhears Tracy saying to Vachon after he's dead), but the deep
>feelings she had for this certain vampire -- a man that scared the crap out
>of her, yet inspired her to risk her life to help and comfort him (twice --
I was just thinking about the whammy thing, and thought the same thing.
His gift was thier freindship, the Vampire thing was incedental. They sat
on the divan drinking vituals like any other kids thier age. She probablly
didn't really think about Vachon the Vampire. More like Vachon the
mysterious-bad boy-babe.
If anything Nick should have asked LaCroix to purge her memory of Vampires,
so that she is no longer in danger to herself, or to the Vampire community.
Poor Tracy doesn't have any friends left. Her "big brother" is in the can.
Her friend and her dog Perri skidaddled, without a word. Her childhood
friend Haunts her. She's got problems with her mother and her Father.
And now she has lost Vachon. If she is now to think that he left her too,
she will be more screwed up. It will also tarnish the true memory of Vachon.
Bonnie- Scuse me for spelling your name wrong last night. <sheepish g>
Gk
SoulDebris@a.......
"...and the world teaches us to hate and kill." Nightcrawler (cut) AtA
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:59:34 -0500
From: "Stormsinger/J.S. Levin" <wabbit@e.......>
Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings
I believe that the sun painting is a *big* clue as to why Nick survived.
Recall that to Divia, the *sun symbol* on the sarcophagus acted as in the
same way the cross does for modern vampires. Unlike LaCroix, she never went
through the centuries where the symbols changed. In the 20th century, Divia
is immune to crosses and affected by sun symbols.
When Nick landed on his sun painting, she could not get near enough to him
to make sure he was dead.
Furthermore, Nick has *always* used the sun symbol as a personal
*strengthening* symbol. Maybe it *helped* him heal.
"Magic is a matter of symbolism and intent." Master Sir Sean O'Lochlain,
numerous places in the Lord Darcy stories by Randall Garrett.
Storm
wabbit@e....... (J.S.Levin/Stormsinger)
Their canon met my imagination and was outgunned.
If you practice being fictional, you discover that "characters"
are as real as people with bodies and heartbeats...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:24:42 PDT
From: "Leslie I.Plummer" <lplummer@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Ashes to Ashes (ep 21)
>Is this proof that other vampires don't like LC?
If we take a continuity moment & use Fever as a background to this ep,
mightn't it make sense that many Toronto area vamps had been killed
(remember LC's radio condemnation of that which was killing off his
children, his people?). Between the loss of population & the fact that
the fever came from LC, Vachon, & the Raven, wouldn't you be staying
away from the Raven?
I don't know... can't even vampires get spooked & "hands-off" when
threated w/a disease about which they haven't a clue to it's
transmission method, etc.? Maybe vamps are cooler than humans, when
threatened w/an all powerful, mysterious threat, but just look at how
humans avoid others w/cancer, AIDS, etc.
Just a thought...
Leslie
***FOREVER MEANS...FOREVER!***
I thought
>it was telling that Vachon lied to Tracy when she asked him if LC was
>a vampire. You could almost see on Vachon's face that he was
>visualizing what LC might do to him if he answered Tracy truthfully.
>Ironically, his answer may make it easier for LC to hypnotize Tracy
>since she won't expect him to be able to do so.
>
>I also thought it was ironic that the reasons Divia gave for killing
>her master are the things LC has also tried to do to Nick (control
>him and make him *his* type of vampire).
>
>Nick was kinder to LC than I would have been (just goes to show you
>he's a much better sort that some people give him credit for).
>
>I forgot to look see who wrote this one, but I thought there were shades
>of Chelsea Quinn Yarbro's _Out of the House of Life_ here (particularly
>when considered with Francesca). St. Germain, although from an area
>of the world probably equivalent to Transylvania, rose to Egyptian
>priesthood (I think; it's been a while since I read that book). Some
>people tried to kill him then too. So I got to wonder if someone just
>recently stumbled across Yarbro's books or something.
>
>Also, did anyone think about Quantum Leap when watching the teaser? :)
>I almost expected to see John Kapelos.
>
>The stupid things: The grave robber was transferred to the Raven in
>a 24-hour period (and how was he identified so fast?). Nat says that
>she was going to say an animal killed him. The police story of solving
>his murder was just dropped. Nick took Urse to Nat to be examined (and
>how did they explain that?). And why should Nat have disposed of her
>body? And I'd like to see how Tracy buried Vachon!
>
>As with last week's Francesca, this episode dropped things that imo
>totally screw with the FK universe. What we saw of LC's past can cast
>some things from past episodes in a different light (but again, that's
>stuff for another post).
>
>Anyway, what it all boils down to is that I didn't hate or like this
>episode. It's just *there*. So my grade for this episode is an
>average C.
>
>--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
>--tmp_harkins@d.......
>
>Well, after another post about LC, I'll be off to read everyone else's
>spoilers. I hope you guys aren't speculating how this ep relates to
>Last Night in your reviews.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:00:40 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: Listmommy and AtA
At 10:12 AM 5/15/96 -0500, Sarah Welsh wrote:
>On Wed, 15 May 1996, Jamie Melody Randell wrote:
>> Losing FK is hard, very very hard, but there's so much we haven't lost...
>Um, unless Nick decides it's for our own good because we wouldn't want to
>remember seeing FK die in our arms ...
Ok, you've convinced me. The above was the clincher.
So, unless we eventually find out otherwise, since we didn't actually see
LC erase any of Tracy's memory, I'm just going to assume he didn't. After
all, he's doing this for Nick, not for Tracy. He knows Nick wants to make
Tracy feel better, so if he finds out Nick is on the wrong track, he just
won't do it, and will explain to Nick later.
Nick: Why didn't you do it?
LaCroix: Actually, she was handling it quite well. She didn't
_want_ to forget.
(Nick looks a little confused, then sad, then nods.)
In Baby, Baby, Serena asked Nick about all the things he kept around the
loft that he'd collected over the centuries. Nick said something like
they were to help him remember things that had happened in the past, not
all of them good. So Nick really is capable of understanding this. He
may just need a reminder.
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 14:17:01 -0600
From: Deb <drowland@a.......>
Subject: Ashes to Ashes/spoiler stuff
Ray wrote:
Rage! Rage! Against the dying of the Knight!
(and the Conquistador, and the Ratsucker,
and the ... um ...of hell ... and Urs!)
May I nominate "Chanteuse" for Urs? French for female singer which is what
she was when Vachon met her.
And as long as I'm sending: I also thought Nick was out of bounds asking
LaCoix to erase Tracy's memory of Vachon's death but think about it - how
often have you been with someone you cared about who was in great emotional
distress and you wished you could do *anything* to take the pain away? If
you had the power to help them would you be able to resist? I don't think
Nick was right but he was very _human_....
and what was with LaCroix going along with Nick's request so easily? "What
would you like her to remember?" HUH? This is LaCroix. He doesn't ask Nick,
he tells him. seems like Nick is the only one who's been changing lately.
Deb Knightie with strong Cousinly urges
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 16:27:21 -0400
From: Carla Pickering <carlap@e.......>
Subject: Slight LK spoiler, & Lyrics
Someone *made* me really listen to the lyrics of "Black Rose". After the
spoiler items on LK, they were *devastating*...
Here I am, rational adult sobbing my eyes out at midnight and I haven't even
seen the episode yet....
I've been playing the tape (I don't *have* a CD player) at work and home and
after getting most of the Black Rose lyrics and reading spoilers, I really
have to be careful that no one thinks I'm seriously loosing it!
"There is more truth and depth to a *good* piece of *fiction* than a
contrived and stylish non-fiction work; there is more real life in my
imagination than in some of the people I come across."
Oh yes, and I want the lyrics and sheet music too!!!!
Saille (carla p.) at Crowhawwk in Exeter, RI with
Joanna Darkwind, Wolfish Wonderpup; Vaquera and Apricot Sympathizer with
Light Cousinly and Dark N & N Leanings.VACHON LIVES!!! RAGE, RAGE AGAINST
THE RAVAGING OF THE KNIGHT@%^&
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:32:59 -0700
From: Valery King <kingv@u.......>
Subject: Re: Listmommy and AtA
On Wed, 15 May 1996, Sarah Welsh wrote:
> Um, unless Nick decides it's for our own good because we wouldn't want to
> remember seeing FK die in our arms. In that case, we'll all forget the
> list address and think that FK was a one-time TV movie with Rick
> Springfield that we saw several years ago...
You know, I wouldn't mind at all if Nick came to me and whammied me into
forgetting "Last Knight." And I mean this sincerely.
Doing her best to forget on her own,
Valery
kingv@u.......
=========================================================================
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