File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 28 TOPICS: Blooper script Spoiler: Re: Q (AtA) Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge.... (5) SPOILER: Q re: Ashes Vacancy, and not a moment too soon (2) SPOILER: Francesca - her age Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- serious Questions:Last Knight Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes (3) Francesca -- details details SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes: Dear Divia.... SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes Ashes to Ashes: LACROIX SPOILER: AtA - Urs (2) Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings Ashes to Ashes: LC and URSE???!! Spoiler: Francesca: Vachon & Tracy (tiny bit AtA, too) Spoiler: Re: Q (AtA) LIST: Did you, perhaps, think I was joking? SPOILER: Last Knight ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:07:57 -0400 From: Beth Brown <BKBVA@a.......> Subject: Blooper script Laurie posted to FORKNI-L; I moved here for reasons that will be obvious below: <<Nigel auctioned a blooper script (a parody of the last episode) at Syndi-Con, and a group of us bought it for the benefit of forkni-l listmembers. With Nigel's kind permission, we are going to make copies available for anyone on list who wants one in return for a charitable contribution.... >> I am not reading any of the "Last Knight" spoilers until I have seen it, nervous as I am. Fortunately (or not), I get to see it Thursday (no ball game this week). However, my guess is this has *got* to be better than the actual episode. But, I hope I am wrong. Looking forward to hearing about the details for the script. Beth bkbva@a....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:13:44 -0700 From: Antonia Spadafina <asginger@i.......> Subject: Spoiler: Re: Q (AtA) Hi all -- On Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:00:36 -0700 Sherri asked: >>I have watched Ashes several times now... and I am just wondering - >>just what >>*does* the graffiti on the door of the Raven say? I' m with Sherri. It looked like Fluid to me too. All kinds of connotations ran thru my head with no satisfying conclusion. And this is the first time I've noticed those words on the door. Is that a real club they use - or just a set? Toni Knightie from NYC ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:19:28 -0400 From: Tammy Stephanie Davis <tsd@u.......> Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge.... > Sweetums Dots wrote: > > > of THAT particular loss is not going to make her less a person. <Snip> > > spare her any unnecessary horror is very sweet....perhaps I do agree with > > the fact that perhaps just going ahead and making the decision for her is > > kind of presumptuous, but his heart is definitely in the right place. > > for deciding what's best for Tracy, for deciding that she'd be better off > this ever happened" and *meant* it (gave it enough thought, didn't just > blurt out what she was feeling at that moment, considered it all, etc), > by all means, whammy her. Nick's a dear heart but what he did is mental > rape to me. I find it very interesting and very puzzling reading these objections about weather it was right for Tracy to get whammy. Look how often all of these vampires in FK have whammied people. Why is this suddenly so different? What makes Tracy being whammied so objectionable? Because she's a regular character? Because she's popular? (or become more popular?) Or is it because Nick is the one who asked for this to be done. And if Tracy was the victim of a "mental rape", then doesn't that mean that everyone else who has been hypotized on FK was simularly victimized? Schanke, Reese, Nat, etc? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:19:57 -0400 From: Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Q re: Ashes Sherri wrote: > just what *does* the graffiti on the door of the Raven say? > I tried to read it, and my poor little brain says "fluid" which doesn't make >any sense...?? Yes it does, the fluid is the name of the nightclub in Toronto which is used as the exterior of the Raven. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:41:00 -0700 From: Angie <alasher@e.......> Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge.... >> Sweetums Dots wrote: >> for deciding what's best for Tracy, for deciding that she'd be better off >> this ever happened" and *meant* it (gave it enough thought, didn't just >> blurt out what she was feeling at that moment, considered it all, etc), >> by all means, whammy her. Nick's a dear heart but what he did is mental >> rape to me. It is also clear that Nick knew how much Tracy loved Vachon. And despite everything, he didn't asl LC to completely wipe her mund clean of Vachon, just to make her forget that he had met the end. Knowing that the love you had will never be there again for you, as opposed to just believing that a good friend has moved on, is in my mind, a better thing. Having lost my best friend two years ago, I would rather have had him move on to bigger and better things, than to completely loose him from my life. If the choice had been given to me, I would have asked for someone to erase those awful feelings from my mind, and to replace them with the warm glow of knowing that it was just his time to move on. Just my take on it.... ===================== @-->-'- http://home.earthlink.net/~alasher http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/5069 --<-'-@ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:50:45 -0400 From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......> Subject: Re: Vacancy, and not a moment too soon To the great folks on this list: May I please apologize for the fact that my note to Karen Kastings did not seem to help her understand at all. That you can dislike a character without besmirching the people who do like the character. I am really sorry if, like me, any of you have had your feelings hurt by her poisoned words yet again. I wish she chould just speak her opinions without always bringing it down to how perfect she is and how bad we are for liking the character. Don't feel guiltly in anyway for liking Vachon, he is not the raping, murdering creature she has painted and we know that. I respectfully suggest to Karen that we all know far too well what she thinks of the character and of us who like Vachon, and have no need to have her treat us badly again and to move on to some other subject that she can speak about happily. Dotti R Knightie 4-Ever dottir@w....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 20:07:47 -0700 From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......> Subject: SPOILER: Francesca - her age Noticed something of interest in the Francesca script that didn't make it into the final version. In the script, in the flashback, Francesca indicates that she is 1,000 years old. Since this was set in 1755, that indicates she was brought across around 755 AD. Which makes her older than Janette and Nick. And here's another tidbit: From missing Nightcrawler monologue: LC: Are we born innocent? And the world teaches us to hate and kill? Laurie Purveyor of nitpicky details ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:18:16 -0400 From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......> Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge.... At 10:19 PM 5/14/96 -0400, you wrote: >What makes Tracy being whammied so bjectionable? (snip)And if Tracy was the >victim of a "mental rape", then doesn't that mean that everyone else who >has been hypotized on FK was simularly victimized? Schanke, Reese, Nat, etc? > (Giggle) This is too true...but then, I wasn't against it anyway.... Dotti R Knightie 4-Ever dottir@w....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:45:32 -0400 From: Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......> Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- serious Janette92@a....... said, >>>V: "Tracy? >>>T: <mumble mumble> >>>V: "Wish me luck." >> >I put my TV on closed caption to try and figure it out, and >THAT said that she said "I love you." It doesn't SOUND like that's what >she's saying though. I wish she *HAD* said that to him. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:54:37 EDT From: BRIAN WHELTON <103045.2473@c.......> Subject: Questions:Last Knight An important question for those who have seen it. s p o i l e r s p a c e 5 4 3 2 1 So Tracy is dead.Nat is dead. Nick is dead. HOW DOES GER's HAIR LOOOOKKKKK?????? Only kidding because I can't sleep and I can't believe how much this is bothering me. Kathy W Tearful Knightie-in Training Who really believes that Schanke got on the wrong plane even though I have never seen a single season 1or 2 episode. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:01:46 -0400 From: Ray Heuer <RayHeuer@a.......> Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes Sarah Welsh wrote: > Where *do* vampires go when they die? Without getting all religious here, I think Vachon himself answered that question at the end of "Fever" at Screed's grave. "See you in Hell, sailor!" Just a thought -- Ray Nat Vamp Camp Rage! Rage! Against the dying of the Knight! (and the Conquistador, and the Ratsucker, and the ... um ... oh hell ... and Urs!) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:01:42 -0400 From: Ray Heuer <RayHeuer@a.......> Subject: Re: Francesca -- details details Bonnela wrote > I think Ray meant <snip> Yes, that's what I was trying to point out. One doesn't have to know a lot of French to know that "chevalier" means "knight", and Vachon speaks (or has spoken) French in everyday use. Making a connection between "M. Chevalier" and "Mr. Knight", even if just for a moment, would seem automatic, then a moment later connecting that the two share the same first name would at least register as a coincedence. Then a thrid moment for his vampire-specific memories to kick in (including going through several name changes to hide your identity), and Vachon would quickly decide that "Nicholas Chevalier" and "Nick Knight" are probably the same person. Which indeed he did. I should have made a seperation between that and my next thought, which was that I found it odd that Vachon would be translating from French to English, when I assumed that he thinks in his native Spanish. Other posters have pointed out that after speaking a given language for a time, you cease thinking in your native language and think in the language you've been speaking. Vacon may be using a French-sounding surname as an "explanation" for speaking fluent French when in French-speaking areas of Canada (remember, he's only been in Toronto since "Black Buddha", which happened, we assume, less than a year ago). In any case, my assumption that Vachon thinks in Spanish may not be true. >But what struck me as odd is that Tracy calls Vachon 'Vachon' and not 'Javier'. We heard Tracy call Vachon "Javier" in "Ashes to Ashes", and she seemed to have trouble getting her tongue around the name. Hmmm. I think I just inspired a bunch of JADFE-related images in the minds of the Vaqueras (and maybe the Perkolators, too.) Perhaps it was the actress' choice to call Vachon by his surname. Of course, Nat calls LaCroix "LaCroix", rather than "Lucien", but that may be simply because that's what Nick calls him. -- Ray Nat Vamp Camp Rage! Rage! Against the dying of the Knight! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:01:47 -0400 From: Ray Heuer <RayHeuer@a.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes: Dear Divia.... > Happy Mother's Day! > > > Love, Lucius LOL!!! After all this sober, heavy, depressing discussion, this bright moment was just what I needed! -- Ray Nat Vamp Camp Rage! Rage! Against the dying of the Knight! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:09:09 -0400 From: Roxanne Piccen <RoxanneP@a.......> Subject: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes Well, I was hoping to post this earlier today and be caught up on my digests, but unfortunately my employers had other plans for me. (Got your FYI message, though, Dotti. Thanks!) They just don't seem to understand the emotional trauma of a beloved t.v. show coming to an end. "Work! How am I supposed to work?" I've still got four digests to read, but I'm sure everyone's reaction was similar. WOW! Spectacular show. Great acting all around. *sob* Vachon is gone. Or is he? I tend to agree with Apache that he could be brought back. After all, Divia didn't feed for almost 2000 years and, more importantly, she had no head! No wonder she was cremated at the end - kind of hard to regenerate your body from ashes. Guess the only way to make sure a vampire is *really* gone is not to have a body left. Although that didn't stop Francesca, did it? :-p BTW, I thought of all of us when Nick asked LaCroix how Divia could have survived and he replied what difference did it make. Do you think they were anticipating our discussions on the Divia issue? Let me once again make my complaint about TPTB. They get rid of some of our beloved regular characters, replace them, then get rid of the new characters just when we've become accustomed to them. What is the reasoning behind this, please? Has someone been taking lessons in evil from Divia? BTW, didn't Urs and Vachon look adorable when LaCroix found them in the Raven? I thought that was so sweet of Vachon to stay with her after her nightmare. Did he happen to be staying at the Raven that day or did he just sense that she was upset and came? / \ /\ / \ / \ Roxanne ---> riding an emotional t.v. roller coaster / \ / \__/ RoxanneP@a....... (Home) // CHIRMP@a....... (Work) ***************************************************************************** Save Forever Knight! // Save American Gothic! Check out: http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html http://www.best.com/~owls for The Trinity Guardian ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:04:22 -0400 From: Michelle Mark <Raindance2@a.......> Subject: Ashes to Ashes: LACROIX Sandra wrote: <<Mostly I guess I was just perplexed because he seemed to me to be out of character a good deal of the time. >> Out of character? I see it as character development. Something Nick could use a little of. I think it would take another 3 seasons at least, just to scratch the surface of LaCroix's character. Would you really want him to stay as seemingly one dimensional as he was during the first season?? I mean the bad-ass vampire routine can only go so far. After almost 2,000 years of existence, there has to be more to him than that. I think some of the first eps of the third season went overboard (ie:lets get naked) and LC was definitely out of character, but I don't see that in AtoA, just as I didn't see it in BMV. Why is it so hard for people to believe that LC can feel love? (Fleur, Nick, Divia, Janette) He's not a vulcan for godssake! I'm not saying I want to see him go soft (in any sense of the word ;) and I like him when he's being a mean SOB, however, I think it is OK for him to show other emotions as well. Cousin Michelle (who is still in serious need of sleep!) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:16:01 -0400 From: Roxanne Piccen <RoxanneP@a.......> Subject: SPOILER: AtA - Urs Urs, girl, we barely knew ya. Every aspect of this ep is being relished nicely, so I've decided to offer a commentary on Urs (another of our under-utilized characters) in honor of her demise. Although age is probably the big factor as to who survived Divia's attacks and for how long, perhaps another reason can be found in what Divia told Nick in his loft. I believe she said that it would be better for him if he didn't fight her. Well, Urs fought tooth (fang?) and nail (Can I hear a "You go, girl!", please? Thank you.) and maybe that's why she died so quickly without lingering like Vachon. Great scene in the elevator. Urs vamped out *immediately* when she knew someone was there. She turned in Divia's direction with fangs bared without even knowing who it was. Of course, seeing Vachon go strange on her, as Schanke would say, probably put her on alert. BTW, is this the first time she's vamped out? HoD was her big ep and I don't remember seeing her do it in there. Urs certainly has come a long way from the exploited, abused woman of 100 plus years ago. She wanted to die then, and after being brought across, it seems she's merely existed as a vampire and not really *lived*. But when it came right down to it, she didn't just give up and die. Kind of funny that Urs was originally the vampire who wanted to die and she's the one who fought Divia the hardest to live. Even LaCroix just sort of let Divia toss him around the Raven for a little bit. Why the heck didn't Nick attack Divia as soon as she appeared in the loft? He saw what she did to Urs (did he clean up the elevator that quickly). He must have realized she wasn't there to discuss a Father's Day gift for LaCroix. So say what you will about Urs and her intelligence and wide-eyed vapid expressions, she was a kind-hearted, sweet soul who had great devotion and loyalty for Vachon. I've grown to like Urs and, goshdarnit, I'm going to miss her. Roxanne -->who really liked that scene of Vachon & Urs on the sofa :-) RoxanneP@a....... (Home) // CHIRMP@a....... (Work) ***************************************************************************** Save Forever Knight! // Save American Gothic! Check out: http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html http://www.best.com/~owls for The Trinity Guardian ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:43:29 -0500 From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......> Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge.... On Tue, 14 May 1996, Tammy Stephanie Davis wrote: What makes Tracy being whammied so objectionable? Becauseshe's a regular character? Or is it because Nick is the one who asked for this to be done. And if Tracy was the victim of a "mental rape", then doesn't that mean that everyone else who has been hypotized on FK was simularly victimized? [Well, I almost got it to 4 lines.] Yes, actually, we *do* pitch a fit just about every time someone gets hypnotized on FK. Haven't you noticed that about us yet? ;) The thing is that Nick seems to think that he knows what's best for everybody else, no matter what their own wishes might be in a situation. *That's* what annoys us: his arrogance at thinking that what he wants for other people is what they want, or even that what he wants for himself is what other people want, and never asking them their own opinion. You don't have to be a vampire to do this. I know a heckuva lot of people who subscribe to the same belief: people who lie to me because they think they're protecting me, keep the truth from me, make decisions directly affecting my life without asking me about it first. I hate it. I'm sure you hate it too when people do it to you. And just because it's being done by a character that we like a lot doesn't make it right. Well-intentioned mind rape is still mind rape. If I had a chance between thinking that someone that I loved died or thinking that they moved away and don't care enough about me to ever get in touch with me again.... well, quite honestly, I think I'd rather have them die. That way I could remember them as a friend rather than someone who made me believe that they cared about me when they were lying the whole time. And the worst part would be that she wouldn't know whether he'd ever get in touch with her again. She'd spend the rest of her life waiting for a phone call or a tap on the window and having her heart stop every time she saw a young guy with long dark hair. Love that ended because of death is a lot less bitter than love that ended through betrayal, imho. On an unrelated note, why is it, do you suppose, that Nick finds food easier to digest with lots of ketchup (cf. FtB, tons of fanfic)? Is it a purely psychological reaction because it's red and liquid and thus looks like what he's used to ingesting? Or is there something about tomatos that Natalie ought to know? The tomato *was* considered to be poisonous there for a while. Sarah welshkin@d....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:30:20 +0500 From: John Folden <jtfolden@e.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: AtA - Urs > From: "Roxanne Piccen" <RoxanneP@a.......> > > So say what you will about Urs and her intelligence and wide-eyed > vapid expressions, she was a kind-hearted, sweet soul who had great > devotion and loyalty for Vachon. I've grown to like Urs and, goshdarnit, > I'm going to miss her. I really liked Urs, as well. When I first saw her I had hoped she would go on to become a half-way decent replacement for Janette, as there are far too few good female vamp roles on FK(other than Divia, of course...<grin>). I thought she was becoming a regular character after I saw Hearts Of Darkness but sadly, she was allowed to fade into the shadows...until AtA. Oh, well, at least she went out fighting, stylish and with a great head of curls! John, a demented victorian ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:36:06 -0400 From: Gehirn Karies <SoulDebris@a.......> Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings Deb: >Some times you have to make your own >sunshine. - Maybe Nick should have tried!) Nick fell into the sun. His blood mingled with the rays, and he survived. It was another FK ethereal Art moment. That *is* a copy of Yoko's "Grapefuit" on his bookshelf, is it not ... NO? <wcg> Gk SoulDebris@a....... "Color yourself wait for spring to come let us know when it comes" Yoko Ono, 1964, Grapefruit ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:36:11 -0400 From: Gehirn Karies <SoulDebris@a.......> Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes: LC and URSE???!! Sleepy Cousin Michelle: > Nothing against Urse but she was >about as intellectually stimualting as an eggplant. LC can do better. Much, LaCroix impersonation follows. Humour impaired Bail out now! "Ah, my dear Michelle, there is nothing *more* stimulating than a ravishing creature who needs an older, more ... experienced hand to guide them on their journey...." "As for the eggplant, it is a very fascinating and ancient thangin its own right." This was just an humourous impersonation. Were this a real LaCroix quote, there would have been vampire floating, and Divia-vision. > There is just so much to say about this ep! Aint it tha truth! BTW I very much enjoyed the slow pained blinking LaCroix did. Touching. Gk SoulDebris@a....... "If you can't laugh at yourself, I will." ~me ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:36:12 -0400 From: Gehirn Karies <SoulDebris@a.......> Subject: Re: Ashes To Ashes: Tracy's memory:to purge or not to purge.... Michelle spoke about Tracy's memory purge: > Isn't pain a part of life? I firmly believe the adage "what dosen't kill >you makes you stronger." I truly believe that what doesn't kill you just doesn't kill you. Pain is relative to the individual. I do believe Tracy needs more smuggled into her noggin than purged out. Tracy, do not wear red. Tracy, do not wear retro seventies. Tracy, do not wear the same color lipstick as your vampire boyfriend, it distracts the veiwers. >Yes, Tracy is going to have >painful memories but hopefully she will use them to become a better person. >Maybe she won't. Maybe she'll wallow in self-pity for the rest of her life. That's it! The spinoff! Tracy, a brooding mortal cop with a really cute vampire partner, whose vampireness goes unnoticed by her. She lost her vampire lover, and declares a blood vendetta against the vampire community that most assuredly was responsible for his death. Uh.... Has that been done? Gk SoulDebris@a....... "Fortunately, there are exceptions." LaCroix, AtA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 17:56:19 -0700 From: Lisa Marvin <wyllow@n.......> Subject: Re: Spoiler: Francesca: Vachon & Tracy (tiny bit AtA, too) Dotti Rhodes wrote: > > At 09:04 AM 5/11/96 -0700, you wrote: > > > At the end of Fever, Tracy leaves Vachon in bed thinking he's a foot > from the grave. In Francesca, they are talking as if no time has passed. > What gives > >with the continuity? At the end of "Fever", Nick came into the church and gave Vachon an injection of the blood that was supposedly bringing the vampires out of the illness that had befallen them all. I assumed that Vachon "recovered" and then probably let Tracy know that he was well. (This was not directly expressed in the subsequent episodes, however. I just made the leap myself.) wyllow@n....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:42:00 -0700 From: BECKY BURNS <becky.burns@w.......> Subject: Re: Spoiler: Re: Q (AtA) -=>On 05/14/96 19:13, Antonia Spadafina said to All: AS> On Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:00:36 -0700 Sherri asked: >>I have watched Ashes several times now... and I am just wondering - >>just what *does* the graffiti on the door of the Raven say? AS> I' m with Sherri. It looked like Fluid to me too. All kinds of AS> connotations ran thru my head with no satisfying conclusion. And this AS> is the first time I've noticed those words on the door. Is that a real AS> club they use - or just a set? Sorry for overquoting but I can answer this one! Honest! On my recent romp to Toronto for the Shrewthering (Hi Will, Lynne & Co.!) I along with my riding buddies (Hey Beth!) took a little drive and found the Raven-well not the Raven-It's a bar known was the Fluid Room. There's a sign on the front that looked like this big Nike symbol, blue with gray I think and on the metal door was written the word "Fluid" BCB ... "One angry voice is not a revolution; it's only an angry voice." ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:52:11 -0700 From: Lisa Marvin <wyllow@n.......> Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes Carrie Krumtum wrote: . > This was a father and son who cared for each other, who NEEDED each other. It > was a wonderful scene Reminds me of these lines: "But then what did you want me to forgive you for?" "I wanted you to forgive me for being mean," he said, "and having to be what I am, and do what I have done." A smile passed over his lips. "Just as you might ask me to forgive you for being you." R.W. 1935 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 05:00:24 GMT From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@n.......> Subject: LIST: Did you, perhaps, think I was joking? Just in case I was somehow unclear about the meaning of my previous listposts: THERE WILL BE NO UNPLEASANTNESS HERE or on any of the lists for which I am a designated Mommy. Let me be very precise about this. I love you all. I really do. Even those of you who make me absolutely crazy at times. I love you all, and I love the lists; if I didn't, I wouldn't be serving as asst. listowner. And I am, despite the tattooed-tough-b*tch exterior, a kind and caring person; I feed stray cats and help little old ladies with their groceries, and I would much rather be giggling than raising my voice in anger. But there are some things I will not tolerate. There will be no deliberate maliciousness. There will be no flagrant ignoring of list rules. And list subscriptions of violators are being altered accordingly. Right now, what with the season ending and all, half of us mourning and the other half in shock, there is NO EXCUSE for purposefully disruptive behavior; and none will be tolerated. At times like this, 'If we do not hang together, we shall most assuredly hang separately.' And anyone who doesn't believe that... can go hang themselves. Period. Now, as for the rest of you... hug the listmember on your left. Now hug the listmember on your right. Now go get some warm fuzzies. The URL is <http://members.aol.com/immajer/warm/fuzzies.html>. We will survive these troubled times, and be all the stronger for them -- as long as we remember what matters most: our strength is in US, in the power of our unity and our caring for the show and for each other. Losing FK is hard, very very hard, but there's so much we haven't lost... we still have the Wars, and Real Life, and affiliations, and listparties, and conventions, and all the other things that make us a community. Nobody can take THAT away from us... not Sony, not TriStar, not USA, not the shadowy figures lurking in the background, not anyone. The only ones who can destroy our community are US, by our actions or our misdeeds or our apathy. Y'all really gonna let that happen? I'm not. No way. Hang in there, kids. We'll make it. We will. -- - Jamie M.R. <immajer@n.......> - - Asst. Listowner, FORKNI-L et al. - - The Smoking Natpacker; ConvCoS, XPiT - - Illustrated Webgoddess & Keeper of Warm Fuzzies - List Rules - http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/FK/FKRules.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 01:05:33 -0400 From: Chana Rossman <bonney@i.......> Subject: SPOILER: Last Knight There are spoilers for Last Knight down there, somewhere... Keep going... Lisa Wolters wrote: > I formed my very own Cheesy Rationalization(tm) with which I plan to > live from now 'til Saturday, when I see the ep, and then for the rest > of my life. >RULE #1: Nick did not let Natalie die or kill her. Nat's alive. >RULE #2: When in doubt, see Rule #1. Ha. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is rationalizing like mad. I've got a whole scenero worked out to explain how what we think happened in the episode really didn't happen the way it appeared to. The sad part is I haven't even seen the blasted thing yet. Based on what I've heard, I can't help but feel like the writers ended up making Nick look rather inept. He does seem to have a habit of not being able to control himself in this particular regard. (Maybe Natalie should have paid more attention to Nick's "ex"wife in Dead of Night...) I firmly believe that Nick's love and concern for Natalie's well-being would have (and should have) overpowered any physical desires. Ah well, I'll reserve final judgement until Saturday at 2:00 am. I will add that this Knightie/Natpacker/Nick&Natpacker would have been happy if the show had ended with a simple passionate kiss and a lot of promise for the future... Chana Rossman bonney@i....... * I have been one acquainted with the [K]night * ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 01:24:06 -0500 From: Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......> Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes Re where vampires go upon dying, Ray noted: > Without getting all religious here, I think Vachon himself answered that >question at the end of "Fever" at Screed's grave. "See you in Hell, sailor!" Divia also alludes to this in AtoA. At first, she's talking about keeping LaCroix alive through eternity, basically so she can torture him. Then she seems to change her mind and indicates that she will kill him after all. While thinking along these lines, she tells him something to the effect that damnation will be a fitting fate for him. LaCroix doesn't disagree. This says to me that (most) vampires automatically assume they will "go to hell" (or some equivalent) if and when they die. Stephanie, now and always a Vaquera, canon be damned ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 01:25:39 -0400 From: Apache <lf@c.......> Subject: Re: Vacancy, and not a moment too soon Re: Karen Kasting's post: Okay, this one gives points, so please allow me to do so as well. Sandra, Dotti, -- forgive me for what I say about Nick. You know I love the guy, though imho he needs to let his hair grow another eight or nine inches <g>. > Remember, Vacant's the one who waxed nostalagic about the good old days of > easy rape (talk to a rape survivor if you find the notion of rape at all > romantic or attractive), Actually, it was easy kills. Preferably of women. And he spoke of females as objects: "remember when you could see something like that and just take her, and not worry about the consequences?" <nostalgic sigh, happy flashback to dead babe in hay>. Somehow I feel like this scene is at the heart of your hatred of Vachon. It wasn't a rape -- the woman was there, in his arms in the stable, willingly. It was a kill. And no doubt about it, he preferred to seduce and kill women, at least at that time (the flashback was dated 1791). Plus it was ugly -- he made mock of the woman with that "Santa Maria" purity joke, knowing the whole time he wasn't about to give her a tumble, but instead was going to drink her dry. But even then something bugged him, and he went back and straightened out her head in the hay. Who are we comparing him with? Nick certainly had a growth curve on the advisability/morality of noshing on nubile babes. The basement larder in the Andre flashback was ... well, depraved. Long time ago, and he repents it, but there it was. > who ran away from a vow for *hundreds* of years, No vow. He was lying in the dirt and dying, and some preInca Sun priestess vampire decides that he and his 'mortal enemy' should be brothers in murderous blood forever. No choice. Then she toasts herself in the morning sun. Nice master: good luck, kids. > and > who apparently had *no* regrets about all the killing he had done. Yup. Granted. Angst-free. > Consider > that after Divia attacked him, Vacant crawled home and commited suicide; And why was Divia able to attack him? Because he tried to help -- in fact, he was worried she'd been bitten by a vampire. Other reasonably nice things Vachon has done onscreen: tried to give Urs a second, happier life. Cuddled his dying friend, Screed. Managed to get Tracy away from him when the First Hunger hit. Protected Nick from exposure to his partner by thinking up the little hypno charade at the end of Black Buddha. Saved Tracy's life several times. Shown up to protect her when he thought she might be in danger from another vampire. Fought with the natives of Upper Canada for seventy years, off and on, and apparently fought with other lost causes over the years. Incidentally, it looked like going home and suffering in the basement was the alternative to going out on a killing spree fueled by Divia-visions. He jumped Urs as soon as she came in, and was maybe going to attack Tracy. He was doing society a favor by going home. We never saw Nick get hit with the same possession/hallucinations, though it seems that he did and somehow was able to master them in ways Vachon was not. Hey, the series *is* Forever Knight. He's the hero. > Nick pulled himself together after Divia's attack--he must have been in the > same kind of pain--and went to *save* LaCroix. Keep the on-screen Vacant > sorted out from the *imagined* Vacant of fanfic. About the on-screen Nick.... but that's another story. Fanfic Vachon: Actually, I sent Vachon off on a one-night/four person killing spree in one story (in an upset condition, in case he was asking 'what's my through-line'?<g>), and had him knocking off another vampire (the one demon-Nick started in on) in another (same old emotional distress). Some of us Vaqueras are rather fond of this comfortable vampire. Others see him as pretty much of sweetheart in modern times, whatever he may have been in the past. His only modern kill that we've seen was Vudu, who was just about to kill Tracy and had also pumped a few bullets into him. I had the impression that he *would* have gone after and killed the man who tried to knife Tracy in MBIAV if he hadn't been on-camera. > > Now, if your idea of a Great Guy is a remorseless rapist and murderer who > cannot keep a promise to a (supposedly holy) woman for 24 hours, that is your > choice. My tastes in friends, lovers and hero(ines) are much more > orthodox--I have expectations of honor, decency and courage, If we're talking about Nick, we should also be talking about indecision, narcissism, selfishness, ingratitude, and inconstancy. They don't give Boy Scout badges for those, either. But those qualities -- the fact that Nick has to *struggle* with a whole plethora of very human weaknesses to be good -- are what make him a great character. Of course, if we're talking about Lacroix, I agree with you. Within his own world, Lacroix is possessed of all of these qualities. > and I just > cannot waste time or myself on decorative types who might look nice out on > the lawn but who are not to be relied upon or trusted. The only truly reliable male in FK is Lacroix. Are you a Cousin? Nick starts to leave town every time things get a little too tense for him; he gets over it, but he starts to. Nick also is easily distracted from his True Love, whether that T.L. be construed as Natalie or Janette. His distracted moments are frequently unfortunate for the females involved: just ask Alyssa, Marion Blackwing, Emily Weiss.... Me, I'll take Famous Vachons on the Lawn for $400, Alex. Hell, I'd even give $200 for Infamous Vachons on the Basement Sofa... whaddaya say, Alex? Apache =========================================================================
Previous |
This month's list |
Next |