File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 26 TOPICS: LIST RULES: 5/13/96 -- Yo! Listen up... SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes (Urs) Francesca notes LIST: warmth and fuzziness-apology Spoiler: Ashes To Ashes Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings (3) ADMIN: READ ME OR UNCLE'S GONNA GET YOU! SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT (4) Spoiler: Francesca, Jane Doe, Last Knight Spoiler -- AtA and incest, what next? Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- serious LAST KNIGHT reaction Spoilers: A to A (3) ADMIN: and Spoiler: AtA Spoilers: AtA-Kathryn Long SPOILERS: Ashes to Ashes (ep 21) LaCroix Ashes to Ashes (2) Spoilers: Fran., AtA and blood knowledge. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 06:36:57 GMT From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@n.......> Subject: LIST RULES: 5/13/96 -- Yo! Listen up... <Crash!> <Thud!> Hark! What's that noise? It's the sound of list rules being shattered and smashed and stomped upon. It's a rather loud noise, and it's disturbing the hamsters. Not to mention, the assistant listowner... For your enlightenment and edification, here's the latest version of the List Rules. Read 'em. Save 'em. Tattoo 'em on your arms. Whatever needs to be done. You are all expected to be aware of these rules, and to follow them. Violators WILL be prosecuted. Seriously. I am becoming ANNOYED. (Despite the chocolate.) Elaboration on the FORKNI-L list rules can be found at http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/FK/FKRules.html Warm Fuzzies available at http://members.aol.com/immajer/warm/fuzzies.html And have a nice day. =========================================================================== FOREVER KNIGHT MAILING LIST RULES (Partial) - Revised 5/13/96 General: forkni-l@p....... FanFiction: fkfic-l@p....... NewEpisodeSpoilers: fkspoilr@p....... These rules are *NOT* to be considered complete, just the barest essentials: 1: BE NICE. PLAY FAIR. NO FLAMING. We don't do that here. 2: QUOTING PREVIOUS POSTS: Copy four lines at a time ONLY. Do NOT quote another person's entire post in your reply. 3: NO PERSONAL REPLIES TO THE LISTS: Except for emergencies. You have a message to one particular person, send it via private e-mail. When replying to mail, check your e-mail CAREFULLY to make sure you're not cc'ing your post to the list. 4: NO SOLICITATION: No advertisements for any sort of profit-making ventures. 5: SIG LENGTHS: Five lines TOPS, including all text, symbols and blank lines. FORKNI-L Specific Rules 6: NO FICTION: Discussion of fiction is okay. Posting of actual fiction is not. 7: NO SPOILERS: No Ashes-to-Ashes, no Last Knight, NADA ZIP ZERO. If in doubt, post to FKSPOILR. FKFIC-L Specific Rules 8: NO DISCUSSION: All posts that are NOT FICTION must go to FORKNI-L or FKSPOILR. 9: ADULT STORIES MUST HAVE THE ADULT TOPIC: your subject line MUST begin with "ADULT:" in exactly that format (omitting quotes). 10: STORIES CONTAINING SPOILERS MUST BE LABELED ACCORDINGLY: in the subject line, and in the beginning of the story, with the name<s> of the eps you're spoiling. 11: FORMATTING FOR FICTION POSTED TO FKFIC-L: Line lengths set to margins that are no more than 60 characters wide, posts no longer than 250 lines. Label your stories in the format (01/16) or something similar for easier cataloguing. FKSPOILR Specific Rules 12: BE NICE: Repeated here again for EXTRA EMPHASIS. 13: LABEL SPOILERS: as to which episode you're spoiling. 14: SPOILERS ONLY ON THE SPOILER LIST: non-spoiler discussion goes to forkni-l, fiction to fkfic-l. 15: POSTING FREQUENCY: While there is no pre-set limit to how many times you may post in one day, it is STRONGLY RECOMMENDED that you limit yourself to three posts per day on the spoiler list at this time. These rules are subject to change at any time, and for any reason, as decreed by Jaye The Listowner <jap8@c.......>, and are enforced by either Jaye or assistant listowner Jamie M. Randell <immajer@n.......> as required. Questions about the lists can be directed to <forkni-l-request@p.......> and will be forwarded to a listowner for disposition. Don Fasig <phase3@g.......> is the officially-designated ListWizard; he handles technical problems such as bounced mail that would otherwise detract from the efficiency of the list. If you're having technical trouble with your subscription, you can contact him directly or through the forkni-l-request@p.......> address. Any questions? Ask away. -- - Jamie M.R. <immajer@n.......> - - Asst. Listowner, FORKNI-L - - The Smoking Natpacker, Convert of the CoS - - Illustrated Webgoddess & Keeper of Warm Fuzzies - List Rules - http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/FK/FKRules.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 02:57:31 -0400 From: Ray Heuer <RayHeuer@a.......> Subject: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes (Urs) I'm catching up on the weekend's mail, and I have to go study the inside of my eyelids for holes for a while, but before I go, a rememberance: Urs - Dear, Delicious, Dense, Urs You needed a better "father" than Vachon Perhaps after another century with Lacroix's influence -- You preyed on men who would have preyed on you, But fell victim to a more vicious hunter - Now the death you long sought, but could never embrace has claimed you, You will shine in the night no longer. Urs - Dear, Delicious, Dense, Urs Goodbye Perhaps this belongs on FKFIC-L, but after mjay's tirade about "spoiler" fiction, I figure I'd put it here. -- Ray Nat Vamp Camp Ursine for a day Rage! Rage! Against the dying of the Knight! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 02:57:52 -0400 From: Ray Heuer <RayHeuer@a.......> Subject: Re: Francesca notes > Did anyone notice that the hockey-related mugs on Reese's desk .... And did anyone notice that they were mugs with the logos of the Toronto Maple Leafs and Montreal Canadiens? I'm not sure, but I imagine that this would be like a New York City police captain's desk sporting mugs with the logos of the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox. -- Ray Nat Vamp Camp Rage! Rage! Against the dying of the Knight! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 02:09:05 -0500 From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......> Subject: Re: LIST: warmth and fuzziness-apology Gay Eckes writes: >Have seen the actress that plays Divia *somewhere* before. She appeared in "The Haunted Mask", the first episode of the children's series, Goosebumps (which my daughter loves). --Sandra Gray, forever Knightie --tmp_harkins@d....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 00:17:00 -0700 From: "Eric L. Steglat" <thetiger@e.......> Subject: Spoiler: Ashes To Ashes Hi Everyone, Wow! I just caught up on about a month's worth of Digests today. Took the day off from work (car repairs, you know), and have spent the preceding 6 hours catching up... So, to jump into the spoiler discussion fray with both feet... First of all, let me just say that I saw the final episodes more than a month ago now. I've now seen Ashes about 8 or 9 times as I did up spoiler requests for various people... INSERTING SPOILER SPACE NOW..... S P O I L E R S P A C E ! Not sure if this is entirely necessary, but anyway... First off--to my fellow Vaqueras. The pain of losing Vachon does fade with time. Just watch the episode a few more times to get used to the idea, then go back and reread Apache's rationalizations for why he isn't really dead. As soon as she first asked me if Tracy pulled the stake out at any point, it hit me. Tracy pulled the stake out, you can *bet* she didn't cut off his head, and she *buried*, not burned him. Voila! He can come back. My theory is that he is in a Divia induced coma from the trauma she inflicted upon him. He should wake up sooner, not later. This theory would also hold true for Urs, but for the fact that I think Nat's most probable course for "taking care of the body" would be incineration...Oops. Also, I think it is incredibly typical in how Divia trapped Vachon in the first place. He may profess to staying away from causes, but he is basically a good guy at heart. He sees a "child" crying in an alley, he goes to help. One of the most telling bits to that scene, I thought, was when he looked up at all the darkened windows, and saw that no one was helping. Of course, the shock on his face when he realized what she could do, also spoke volumns. As to the point that has been raised by several people: Why can Tracy tell that LaCroix and Vachon contain an inherent sense of evil, but can't see that in Nick? I have a simple answer. Because LC and V are both comforatble with their vampire status, and thus do little to hide their nature, while Nick is the opposite. Maybe she has trouble sensing it, because he works so hard at hiding it, even from himself. Plus, familiarity does breed contempt. I think she's just used to being around him so much at work that she doesn't pick up on those nuances... Twice, while LaCroix was in the Raven, in the beginning, I could almost hear Darth Vader: "I sense something. A presence I've not felt since..." Was it just me, or did anyone else think there was anything going on between Urs and LaCroix? Vachon's hasty assurace of "It's not what you think", almost made me think he was like a guilty man caught with someone else's wife. However, not that he would have much to be guilty about, since he did bring Urs across, but if she did have a current, on going thing with LaCroix, I would think Vachon would be careful not to piss off a much more powerful vampire... Saddest line for me was when Nick told Nat about Vachon's death, and that Tracy had no one she could talk to about it. Having been put into positions before, of not being able to talk about painful things with anyone, it really struck a chord with me... Oh, and by the way, I think this now explains why Ben Bass seemed almost detached in Francesca. Not too easy to go from this kind of intense acting, to turning around and pretending nothing's changed. Of course, I think he's a wonderful actor who pulled it off, but that may be why others thought he was "quiet" in Francesca. I'd like to add my kudos to the writing, directing, and acting in this episode, as so many others have already said it. Kathryn Long has a *tremendous* future ahead of her... Finally, by the 4th or 5th viewing of the episode, I was finally able to start looking for things like WARM FUZZIES. I think I spotted one. When Vachon calls Tracy at the station, to tell her he knows who the killer is, there is a shot over her shoulder at her desk. On the desk, she has a pencil can. And stuck to the pencil can is a black "weepil". (That's what we called them when I was a teen-ager). IS THIS A WARM FUZZY? Confirmation, please. Enough for now, Jenn--the occasionally responsible Vaquera... ************************************************************************** "The Tiger" From EarthLink Net | and "KitFox" (Jenn) "thetiger@e......." |"Tracy?" "Javier?" Tiger, Tiger, Burning Bright | "Wish me luck..." In the Forest of the Night... | --Ashes To Ashes *************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 06:58:40 -0400 From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......> Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings At 04:13 AM 5/14/96 GMT, you wrote: >Does anyone know what that song was that was playing in the Raven? The song was "The Hunger" and can be found on the FK Soundtrack. One of my absolute favorites. >Divia's mother was from a brothel???? Where'd ya see that at? In the original episode from the 2nd season "A More Permanent Hell" where we first saw those scenes it is more in depth and find all that info out. . >Erasing the memory: Personally that would be a blessing. I agree too. I liken it to real life...I had a very, very close friend commit suicide by hanging himself. I would give almost anything to forget that's what happened to him. I'd rather feel he'd jerked me around and took off than to have to constantly remember and have these flashes in my mind of him at the end of a rope. I can never see a scene in a movie, tv show or read it in a book where my mind automatically changes the characters face to Karson's. So, I too would believe it was a blessing to think he had just taken off.. Dotti R Knightie 4-Ever dottir@w....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 07:13:17 -0400 From: The Phoenix <jap8@c.......> Subject: ADMIN: READ ME OR UNCLE'S GONNA GET YOU! #1: BEHAVE! #2: WATCH WHERE YOU PUT YOUR DARNED SPOILERS! #3: BE NICE! (See Subject) #4: Send Jamie lots of chocolate or cigarettes (or both)! #5: Stuff your temper in the trash can! (See #3) #6: There is no number 6! #7: IT'S ONLY A TV SHOW! (ow, ow, ow!) #8: ACT YOUR AGE, NOT MY BROTHER'S IQ! This lesson in how to behave on my lists was brought to you by the letters A and Z, and by the number 4. /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/- The Tastiest Crayon, Her Royal Redness, Jaye the First, the Phoenix. jap8@c....... // http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/ MIAWOL. /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 07:21:47 -0500 From: Deb Kroll <demona@e.......> Subject: SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT WAAAA!!!!!!! I just saw last Knight and let me tell you, have tissues ready! I can't belive they did this. I was balling my eyes out at the end. The only part I REALLY liked was when Nat says "Make Love to me Nick". Some of those Nat/Nick scenes had me floored! This one is definately a keeper, but be warned that ending is SO sad waaaaaaa!!!! :`( demona@e....... -------------oO-OO*OO-Oo----------------- Demona@e....... -- CompUSA Technician Gargoyles fan ** Forever Knight Fan ------------//oOO-*-OOo\\---------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 08:53:05 -0400 From: "Gaylin J. Walli" <gjwalli@m.......> Subject: Spoiler: Francesca, Jane Doe, Last Knight Apache(?), oh geez, someone asked what Hollyhocks meant in the language of flowers. I admit I haven't been to careful about who`s said what, but for what it's worth, Hollyhocks were meant to symbolize fruitfulness or female ambition (actually the white hollyhocks were for the later specifically). Stupid questions: I'm trying to make sure the Known Vampire list is up-to-date on the FK Website. I checked the list rules, so I think I'm okay asking about all of these episodes. Somebody smack me if I screw up...I've missed a bunch of episodes so I'm going on the kindness of strangers as to what has happened... Francesca was a real vampire that Nick accidently killed in what year? Sometime during the 1700s? Do we know how old she was? So who was Lisa? Vachon gets it, but who does it? Divia? Does anyone else get it? Who does Divia? Did Divia do her master, The Ancient one, and if so, during what year? Do we find out if it's a male or a female Ancient One? What happens to Urs? Who else did Divia do, anyone? Are there any other new vampires that I've forgotten about? I need to ask a specific question about a vampire in Last Knight, but I'm not sure if it's cool to do so yet. I checked the spoiler list rules which are silent, but it seems a shame to spoil things for everyone if I'm one of two people who's seen it. Can someone who's seen it please contact me privately about it? Thanks in advance for you help with the web page. Jasmine, Faithful Ravenette, gjwalli@m....... http://www.hu.mtu.edu/~gjwalli/fktoc.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 08:59:50 -0400 From: Marf Shopmyer <aa108460@d.......> Subject: Spoiler -- AtA and incest, what next? From: Loose Cannon <LoosCanN@a.......> Subject: Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes and incest. "Plus, _she_ was the aggressor, he had just heard her say she had destroyed her maker, which he found appalling, and he definitely seemed uncomfortable about the evil he felt in the tomb. I think it was a combination of these things that made him lose control and kill her." It would certainly make me think about threshing off more than John Barleycorn's head. If LC ever thought he had any control over Divia, this would be an eye opener. She will kill anything to get what she wants. The prospect of eternity being in the thrall of your scruple-less daughter, forced to be her love slave or die, could force anyone to take extreme measures. And LC learns to his cost that they were just not extreme enough. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:23:45 -0400 From: Apache <lf@c.......> Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- serious On Tue, 14 May 1996, Janette Z wrote: > In a message dated 96-05-12 05:33:42 EDT, you write: > > >>V: "Tracy? > >>T: <mumble mumble> > >>V: "Wish me luck." > > > >She says: "I'm here" She says "Javier..." *really badly* and it sounds like "I'm here.." > That's odd. I put my TV on closed caption to try and figure it out, and > THAT said that she said "I love you." It doesn't SOUND like that's what > she's saying though. It sounds more like Javier, though terribly said. It > COULD be I'm here. Just thought I'd tell you what my TV's saying. Bonnie Pardoe mentioned this too. I guess we'll have to see a script to figure out where 'I love you' came from. I'm wondering if it isn't supposed to go where "Wish me luck" is now -- a smart script change at the last minute, like Harrison Ford's altering "I love you too" to "I know" at the end of the second Star Wars movie. For the source of the change, my money would be on Michael Sadowski -- author of my favorite line in "Blackwing:" "She senses a darkness around you -- are you married, Detective?" Ap. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 06:36:17 -0700 From: Roxanne Piccen <CHIRMP@a.......> Subject: Re: LAST KNIGHT reaction Valery wrote: >Don't read this if you want to come to this "cold". I >really don't want to ruin anything for anyone, and you >might find it depressing. Please, please, please, when some of your anger has subsided, post to the list what happened in this ep to produce such strong feelings. I prefer to know bad news in advance so I can better prepare for the impact. (It actually did help somewhat knowing what was coming with AtA. At least I wasn't caught completely off guard.) Roxanne RoxanneP@a....... (Home) // CHIRMP@a....... (Work) ********************************************************* Save Forever Knight! // Save American Gothic! Check out: http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html http://www.best.com/~owls for The Trinity Guardian ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:55:24 -0400 From: cpl <cpl@b.......> Subject: Spoilers: A to A Dottie wanted to know where I got the homosexuality and pediphilia. OK -- first, Hi Dottie! :) -- I'm not going to argue this forever, BUT, if these characters were not vampires (that is to say that *we* know that whatever normal relations they had as mortals kind of gets tossed out the window when they're brought across i.e. Divia is the master/mother figure and the equivalent of 2000 years old so we don't see their behavior as out of the ordinary for FK vampires), it would be hard to miss the implications of some sort of homosexuality between Nick and LC and the implied pediphilia between Divia and LC. I"m *not* saying that they (Nick and LC) had/have been/are/were in this episode making love, nor am I saying that the moment that two people of the opposite sex show some sort of physical sign of affections, then automatically it's homosexual in some way. However, the touching in this episode and the looks on their face implied more than is normally allowed to be implied on TV IMHO which pushes it in that direction. As for the other pairing, the same: Yes, *we* know that Divia is 35 years old or something at that point, but she sure looks about 15 or younger maybe, and even if there is some sort of rationalization about events, I think that it's impossible to miss these implications. I think all this can go both ways, but my gut reaction was and is as stated. I don't think that any of these issues was *explored* in any real sense (nor should have they been b/c it wasn't really important) but the fact that they were touched upon and implied, I think is pretty daring since this was not a movie of the week concerning the issue of the week but taking place in *normal* (normal, hee hee) context. To sum up: I would say that there was no homosexuality nor pedephila nor incest if we take everything on the vampire plane of existence, but looking at it from a TV point of view and without rationalizing it knowing that they are vampires, I think that it's very possible to see it and that in and of itself is different. Furthermore, am I the *only* one who's eyes opened up wider when she said "make love to me, father?" This is weird since she said "father" and in a vampire context, she's the parental figure, but this says to me that there are no absolutely clear lines where the mortal relationships ends and the vampire relationships begins (since even the vampires themselves in the show can't shed the old completely), so there's room for what I gleaned from the episode. Anyway, I admit to everyone that I found the Nick and LC stuff erotic (and judging from my private conversations with several of you guys, I'm not alone). ;) ping cpl@b....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:01:23 -0400 From: Apache <lf@c.......> Subject: Re: ADMIN: and Spoiler: AtA On Tue, 14 May 1996, The Phoenix wrote: > > #6: There is no number 6! > Talk about spoilers! So this means that last episode wasn't just a fantasy/drug induced hallucination, and he really *did* launch a missile from the grounds of the Village? Funny, I was in Portmeirion- Penrhyndeudraeth around then, and didn't see any scorch marks a-'tall. Ap. McGoohan fan ObFKspoiler: loved it when Vachon rapidly checked Divia's neck for bitemarks when he was asking if she was OK -- hey, this *is* the alley by the Raven, after all. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:05:37 -0500 From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......> Subject: Spoilers: AtA-Kathryn Long On Tue, 14 May 1996, Sandra Gray wrote: > She appeared in "The Haunted Mask", the first episode of the children's > series, Goosebumps (which my daughter loves). Oh my gosh! That was her? Divia was Carlie Beth? (Yes, I watched it. The amount of Real Life that I have fluctuates alarmingly.) How very very different she looks. Wow. She *is* a good actress. Certainly in no danger of being type cast. *giggle* Just thought of the gimmick in that show of the quasi-bust that her mother made of Carlie Beth. How very apropos to the AMPH flashback and Lucius' bust being broken. Of course, Sandra and I are liable to be the only two who know what I'm talking about... Sarah welshkin@d....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 07:49:51 -0700 From: Cynthia Hoffman <choff@v.......> Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Ashes to Ashes (ep 21) LaCroix I can't believe I'm going to do this yet again ... but I am. Sandra Gray wrote: > First, as I said in my review of the episode, I liked seeing LC > admit that Divia had inherited his *evil*. And this was an opinion > LC had of himself *before* he was brought over apparently. I noted that as well. What I noted was that LC listed things he had done as a Roman General, things that were to his mind horrible acts done in the name of a state that was admittedly, rather mean-spirited, even in the best of times, to those it conquered. But the evil that LC talked about didn't strike me as an admission of how totally evil he thought he was, just what kind of evil he was capable of. And he DREW THE LINE at the kind of evil his daughter was capable of. It's why he killed her. > this admission. But LC apparently considered Divia a "chip off the > old block" who was made even *worse* by the vampire who brought her > over giving her the power to indulge her "evil" more. That's a bit of an exaggeration. He says she "inherited" the evil from him, not that she's a chip off the old block. That's your reading of it, right? > I think this episode gives LC another and perhaps a deeper reason > for bringing over Nick. He wanted the opposite of what he got in > life: a "good son" instead of an "evil daughter". While that's always possible, it tends to oversimplify the character of both of them. Nick is not "good" any more than Lacroix is "evil." > This episode also impacts on the character tendency that I (and some > other people) have observed for LC to want Nick in a sexual way. Yes. > I find myself wondering now if, due to what happened with Divia, LC > has been leery of initiating any sort of sexual relationship with > Nick for fear that Nick would react as he himself reacted to Divia. But Nick isn't his son in the human way, only in the vampire way. It's not incest in the same way that being with Divia would be. It's entirely possible that given time, LC would have come around to Divia's way of thinking anyway (although I rather doubt it given Roman incest prohibitions) but in the case of Nick, if LC was interested in him that way, he would have him that way. You don't raise those same objections regarding Laacroix's feelings about Janette or Francesca, do you? Why raise them about Nick? > The last thing I found myself thinking about was how this episode's > flashback impacts on the flashback in first season's Dead Air. It was a striking parallel, one that I noticed on first viewing AtA. I think knowing that that kind of scene occurred two generations running in the same family makes LC's pain over having disposed of Divia more striking to me and his pain more real as well. > I do have to confess to not feeling any sympathy for LC in AtA. > Mostly I guess I was just perplexed because he seemed to me to be out > of character a good deal of the time. Had I felt sympathy for him like > I did in Father's Day, I may have hated AtA. This absolutely floors me. I have trouble understanding how anyone could come away from this episode not having some sympathy for the man. Even Nick, who has periodically hated him had sympathy for him. And what exactly was out of character about him in this episode? > Yes, I like LC to be evil. :) But there's a difference between evil and one dimensional, isn't there? Cynthia Cynthia Hoffman/choff@v....... Raven ** IB ** MBDtK We cater to the occasional fetishist ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:52:41 -0400 From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......> Subject: Re: Spoilers: A to A Okay, Ping, I see where you're coming from. I don't think I agree totally, but I do understand your thought process (and for me that's saying a lot, believe me...:) ) I have always enjoyed those little moments between LC and Nick that could be taken either way, wiping blood from Nicks mouth with his finger and sucking it, the way he touched Nick's face thru the jail cell, etc. And I've read some of the fiction posted on JADFE re the same thing. I think they're erotic in nature and could be taken that the trio we all know and love could have been a trio in every sense of the word. I don't know if I really think it happened, but I can definitely see where one could make a strong argument for it. Ladies, think of lucky Janette..... Dotti R Knightie 4-Ever dottir@w....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:17:17 +0500 From: John Folden <jtfolden@e.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT > From: "Deb Kroll" <demona@e.......> > > WAAAA!!!!!!! I just saw last Knight and let me tell you, have tissues ready! I > can't belive they did this. I was balling my eyes out at the end. > The only part I REALLY liked was when Nat says "Make Love to me Nick". Some of > those Nat/Nick scenes had me floored! This one is definately a keeper, but be > warned that ending is SO sad waaaaaaa!!!! :`( I read a pretty detailed spoiler that also mentioned Nat saying that line above. I had *hoped* that the PTB would smarten up and realize what a great ending they would have if they rolled credits right after she said that line. It would have left it completely open to speculation. In the original spoiler I saw, it had Nick taking too much blood from Nat, and then actually going back for more to finish her off rather than bringing her accross. Someone else said that later it was edited and Nick didn't go back for the second drink....????? Did he? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:39:44 -0600 From: Deb Rowland <drowland@a.......> Subject: Ashes to Ashes Just an observation: For someone who wanted to die just a few episodes ago, Urs did a great job of trying ot fight off Divia ( in point of fact, the only one who even tried). Deb Knightie with strong Cousinly urges ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:45:34 -0400 From: "Carol A. Morrison" <morrison@a.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT John Folden asked-- >In the original spoiler I saw, it had Nick taking too much blood from Nat, and > then actually going back for more to finish her off rather than bringing > her accross. >Someone else said that later it was edited and Nick didn't go back for the > second drink....????? Did he? S P O I L E R S P A C E No, Nick doesn't go back for a second drink. He leans down and kisses Natalie on her right check and tells LaCroix "I can't condemn her to this darkness." Tracy's last words to Nick -- "You...could have trusted me." Nick's last words to Natalie -- "I won't leave you. Whatever happens, we'll be together." Natalie's last word to Nick -- "Forever." Nick's last words to LaCroix -- "No. Not the Devil, Lacroix." (Lacroix: "What then") Nick: "You...are my closest friend." Lacroix's last words to Nicholas -- "Damn you, Nicholas." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:31:48 -0400 From: Naomi P Kraus <npk1@c.......> Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings I was very curious when I saw Divia smoking without her body actually going up in ashes. Any thoughts? N.P. Kraus npk1@c....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:47:35 +0500 From: John Folden <jtfolden@e.......> Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes > From: "Deb Rowland" <drowland@a.......> > Just an observation: For someone who wanted to die just a few episodes ago, > Urs did a great job of trying ot fight off Divia ( in point of fact, the > only one who even tried). Quite true! I believe a psychology teacher of mine once said something along the lines of "People who say they wish to die are often the ones who wish to live the most". I would imagine it matters quite a bit "how" you die, as well. John ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:47:21 -0500 From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......> Subject: Re: Spoilers: A to A At 09:55 AM 5/14/96 -0400, cpl wrote: > Anyway, I admit to everyone that I found > the Nick and LC stuff erotic (and judging from my private > conversations with several of you guys, I'm not alone). ;) No, you're definately not alone. Just wanted to point out there are also those of us who find the Nick and LC stuff not erotic, just very, very loving. Margie (treeleaf@i.......) N&NPacker The Unnamed Faction ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 13:13:55 -0400 From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......> Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings At 12:31 PM 5/14/96 -0400, you wrote: >I was very curious when I saw Divia smoking without her body actually >going up in ashes. Any thoughts? > When was she smoking? Did I miss something again? Dotti R Knightie 4-Ever dottir@w....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 13:22:24 -0400 From: Loose Cannon <LoosCanN@a.......> Subject: Spoilers: Fran., AtA and blood knowledge. This may have already been covered. I'm on digest, which tends to exacerbate my already endemic confusion. <g> There must be a way for vampires to shield themselves, their memories, etc., when they exchange blood, or Nick would have already known about Divia. My impression is only images, not clear, linear thoughts are passed, but something as ... traumatic, defining (?) as LC's murder of Divia would have to come through unless there was a way for him to seal that off. Nick was surprised again and again by what LC was saying and doing during AtA. Leslie (LoosCanN@a.......) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:28:33 -0700 From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: LAST KNIGHT >S > >P > >O > >I > >L > >E > >R > > >S > >P > >A > >C > >E > >>In the original spoiler I saw, it had Nick taking too much blood from >>Nat, and then actually going back for more to finish her off >>Someone else said that later it was edited and Nick didn't go back >>for the second drink....????? Did he? >No, Nick doesn't go back for a second drink. He leans down and kisses >Natalie on her right check and tells LaCroix "I can't condemn her to >this darkness." It's not quite that clear. The way it was shot, frankly, you can't tell. Nick leans over her, and since the shot is from behind, you can't tell what he's doing, though I think he is drinking. It seems to match the script, where he is NOT vamped out when he takes the second drink. But it is ambiguous, and if one wants to believe that he's only kissing her, one can. Certainly, at the end, when he rises, he was kissing her. However, what is not ambiguous is the fact that LC told him he had a choice: bring her across or let her die, and he chose to let her die. Whether he drank again or not. "I can't condemn her to this darkness." Laurie, who knew what was coming, but still got depressed "Oh, Nicholas. You have thought this through, haven't you?" "What? And spoil the fun?" from the Last Knight blooper script =========================================================================
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