File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 25 TOPICS: spoiler: ashes to ashes, interpol, murdered people (2) SPOILERS: Ashes to Ashes (ep 21) (2) Spoiler: Ashes To Ashes (3) AtA spoilrs: Dialogue,hair,etc. Janette & Human Factor LIST: warmth and fuzziness Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes Apology ashes to ashes at last SPOILER: Q re: Ashes (2) Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes: The Deaths Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes and incest. Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes Francesca & AtA LIST: warmth and fuzziness-apology Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings (3) spoiler: yet more on Ashes to Ashes (a ykyb...) SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes Sipping Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- serious ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:37:48 -0400 From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......> Subject: Re: spoiler: ashes to ashes, interpol, murdered people At 06:35 PM 5/13/96 CDT, you wrote: >Dotti mentioned that the quick id. is plausible. I'm not all that sure of it. Please, we're talking vampires here...plausibility is pretty much out the window anyway...so we stretch the idea of a quick i.d......so, what does it matter??! (VBG) Dotti R Knightie 4-Ever dottir@w....... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:53:13 -0500 From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......> Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Ashes to Ashes (ep 21) >The fact that Divia only went after Vachon, Urse, and Nick should be >evidence that LC has kept himself isolated in the vampire community. >Divia considered Vachon and Urse his "friends", but I don't see how >they could be so "friendly" with LC since they hadn't known him very >long. Is this proof that other vampires don't like LC? I don't think so. Divia was going after a few vampires that LC was friendly with, so that other vampires would feel it was unsafe to be around LC, and they'd stay away from him. She didn't have to kill everyone LC was close to, just enough to make her point. Nick, of course, was a special case. She tried to kill Nick, specifically, because he's LaCroix's favorite, and she knew how much his death would hurt LaCroix. And something else just occurred to me. I wonder if Divia was jealous of Dad's favorite? Margie (treeleaf@i.......) N&NPacker The Unnamed Faction ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:39:46 -0700 From: Lisa Marvin <wyllow@n.......> Subject: Re: Spoiler: Ashes To Ashes Arletta Asbury wrote: > > >1) The jail scene was hilarious, I nearly died laughing, you have all these > >"big, bad criminals" cowering in the corner away from LC, who is simply > >standing on the far side of the cell, indulging the cops..... > > I'm glad someone else noticed that too. It was such a tiny moment, > do you think it was scripted or just ad-libbed. I actually sat on the couch laughing out loud. Then I watched the ep one more time the next morning and laughed again. LaCroix's comment about being an influence on the "disenfranchised" was a hoot. I can't say whether it was adlibbed, but the way those other crooks were pasted against the bench, I think it may have been written that way on purpose. LC has a funny, dry sense of black humor and comes up with one-liners every now and then that I think are funny. I'm really going to miss these guys! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:31:36 -0400 From: Diane Shea <KerrRaven@a.......> Subject: AtA spoilrs: Dialogue,hair,etc. Karin Welss wrote about dialogue in AtA; >>most of the final Nick/LaCroix stuff was maudlin ("If you need me..." *howls of anguish*) and entirely devoid of the tension that gives their normal interactions such spark.<< I don't think that extensively creative dialogue is really needed here. The fact that this simple statement "If you need me," is coming from Nick and being directed at LaCroix is profound enough. We've never seen anything like it. There's still tension, LaCroix didn't really look at him as he acknowledged Nick's offer. It was hard for the both of them to show compassion for each other, and mean it. Just be glad Nick didn't hug him and say "I'm here for you man!" Hmmm, other comments from me; I adored this ep, clearly one of the best in acting, editing, directing. I don't think this episode would have worked if FK didn't have some incredible editors. To make Divia's fight scenes look realistic was quite a challenge in my opinion. After reading some of the spoilers I was dreading having to watch some unbelievable scenes of this little brat throwing about vamps much larger than her, but because of the direction, editing, and outstanding acting from Kathyrn Long, I had no problem believing it was possible. Obligatory Hair Comments: Nick; I believe Nick was having an excellent fluffy hair ep. Just makes me want to pet him. LaCroix; Well let's see, it was very much like it's always been. Velvety! What I have always wanted to know is why was his hair in a normal flat mode in the AMPH flashback? I was kind of expecting his hair to be on the flat side in Egypt in 99 A.D. but it was sticking up just like the present. Are they trying to show that after one becomes a vampire they can defy gravity in more ways than one? Tracy; About the worst it's ever been in my mind. What happened up in Toronto to cause this? Vachon; Certainly not as good as it was in MBIAV. Nat; Lovely highlights. About as soft and fluffy as Nick's. After I'm through petting Nick, maybe I'll go find Nat. Divia; It suited her personality, perfectly. She looked rather stunning nevertheless, especially for a fourteen year old girl. She has a classic face. And while were on a shallow subject, the eyebrow thing; Someone mentioned on Forkni that Nigel explained at Syndicon that the eyebrows haven't changed since first season. Can a whole list full of nitpicky viewers just *imagine* something like suddenly over-accentuated eyebrows? Yeah I know, they're not *my* eyebrows. Until *I* sit in a makeup chair for however long it takes I have no right to pass judgement, but at the very least they seem *much* darker in Jane Doe if in no other episode. Of course, I happen to like LaCroix's eyebrows however they come, so it's not a matter of good or bad for me, I'm just wondering if we're all seeing things or not. --Cousin Diane Eternal Seducer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:35:29 -0400 From: Jean Graham <JeanB7@a.......> Subject: Janette & Human Factor Maybe someone would be willing to e-mail me privately about this, since I have the feeling the subject was probably beaten to death long before I got here. I just wondered why the general list consensus seems to be that Nick brought Janette back across despite her wishes to the contrary at the end of "Human Factor." While the ending was definitely ambiguous and certainly meant to imply that Janette was still with us, my impression was that Janette had come back on her own (perhaps not having become as completely mortal as she thought.) The only other possibility is that LaCroix or one of the other vampires got to her, and there's no clue anywhere to imply that. So, just curious. Why assume that Nick did it? If he had, would he have looked so surprised to see the marks on the dead thugs' necks at the end? Would he have looked so shocked at the realization that Janette must (might?) still be out there? Any feedback would be welcome. Jean Graham JeanB7@a.......) ______________________________________________ A penny saved is a congressional oversight. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 19:40:11 -0700 From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......> Subject: Re: Spoiler: Ashes To Ashes >Arletta Asbury wrote: >> >> >1) The jail scene was hilarious, I nearly died laughing, you have >> do you think it was scripted or just ad-libbed. Having seen the script, I can tell you it was scripted. Also, there was a previous scene, when LC first arrived at the cell, when the prisoners were being boisterous, then went dead silent upon his arrival. Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:45:34 -0600 From: Gay Eckes <raven@r.......> Subject: Re: LIST: warmth and fuzziness At 05:44 PM 5/13/96 GMT, the listmommy wrote: >Since I have not been feeling too well lately, Ate all that chocolate at one sitting?! >specially-trained Attack Fuzzies Tribbles in the grain bin come to mind. Gay Eckes raven@r....... gdeckes@i....... gdeckes@c....... >> Life's too short . . . << ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:41:50 -0400 From: Helen Schreiner <HelenCS@a.......> Subject: Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes Finally after getting through most of the spoiler posts--I don't know what else to add. I thought it was a great episode. The acting, writing, direction , visual effects and of course the music was wonderful. I thought the resolution of Nick and Lacroix's conflict was especially powerful--and the additional information on Lacroix's history shed much light on his attitiude toward Nick--and Fleur. Regarding Apache's posts: 1. It seems likely to me that Vachon could be brought back , since his body is still more or less intact. 2. Divia's master being one of the first didn't make me think of satan--but of Anne Rice's vampire mythology where the first (and so oldest and most powerful Vampires) were rulers of Egypt. (See "The Vampire Lestat") Anticipating-with some trepidation-next week's episode. Helen ((HelenCS@a.......) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:30:45 -0500 From: TORREY L HARRIS <Dona_Torrey@p.......> Subject: Apology Yes, the letter for Karen was suppose to be private mail. I did not pay attention to where I was sending it. I apologize to the list and especially to Karen. This should have never happened. Dona Torrey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:16:12 -0500 From: TORREY L HARRIS <Dona_Torrey@p.......> Subject: ashes to ashes at last Karen, Hello again, I don't think we have correspondence after the beginning of this season when we had some nice little talks about this same subject. I must say that your letter to the list angered me., not so much for what you said but the way you said it. There are people on this list that are truly upset over the death of the characters this season, and your words came across as harsh and unfeeling. We all have characters that we dislike but for the good of the list and normal common curtsy we refrain from bashing them in public. In the future I would suggest that if you feel the need to put down a character you may get a better response from the list by stating your feelings and giving reasons behind them. Just saying that you don't like " stupid people, or characters" with out backing it up is a child's debate technique, something that I feel is above you. I will leave you now. I am sorry you feel so much anger toward a TV character but I am sure you have your reasons. Please consider the feeling of the other 1000 people on this list the next time you post. Torrey Harris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:00:36 -0700 From: Sherri <sherric@e.......> Subject: SPOILER: Q re: Ashes I have watched Ashes several times now... and I am just wondering - just what *does* the graffiti on the door of the Raven say? I tried to read it, and my poor little brain says "fluid" which doesn't make any sense...?? I loved this ep - they threw a lot of stuff into it - forgive me if I've repeated something... 1. Divia referred to a lot of "rules" for vampirism that she obviously wasn't willing to follow, so she probably didn't bother to pass them on - it makes you wonder what the rules were.... 2. I think the passage in the Raven where LC & Nick were discussing how Divia survived was a bow to the List - it sounded like something we would ask: "And just *how* did Divia survive 2000 years in a sarcophagas??" "Because of the evil in the tomb? Does it really matter??" (paraphrased..) Sherri sherric@e....... Founding Member, SFKS Save FK: http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:04:44 -0500 From: "Stormsinger/J.S. Levin" <wabbit@e.......> Subject: Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes: The Deaths Why did Divia go after Vachon, Urs and Nick? Because those were the only three vampires she saw directly interacting with LaCroix, that's why! Her first sight of Urs is sleeping in the basement of the place that LaCroix not only owns, but lives in himself. Vachon comes in and seems perfectly at home in the otherwise deserted club, and the two of them end up curled up on the couch (sigh!) in LC's private office. Of course she figured they *had* to be close -- she knew how little license THE GENERAL usually allowed. Nick's relationship she picked up from watching, from LC's mind and from the blood relationship between them, as she says, "You always know family..." (paraphrase?) She did not see any other vampires interacting with him in any way that would suggest a relationship. Hence, those are the ones she chose to kill. Storm wabbit@e....... (J.S.Levin/Stormsinger) Their canon met my imagination and was outgunned. If you practice being fictional, you discover that "characters" are as real as people with bodies and heartbeats... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 23:04:52 -0400 From: Loose Cannon <LoosCanN@a.......> Subject: Spoiler: Ashes to Ashes and incest. Well, I know I'm warped, but I'll have to admit I'm with Tippi, and confess I think Lucius went a bit over-board when Divia requested that they do the thing that must not be done and he cut her head off for it. But ... he was _Lucius_ at the time, not our LaCroix. If only 20 years had passed since he had been brought over, he had only yet lived a reasonable mortal life-span. He hadn't had time to get a truly vampiric perspective on things. NB even seemed to play him a bit differently in those flashback scenes; his carriage seemed more tentative. He deferred to Divia, he the student, she the teacher. (What a marvellous acting job done by Nigel Bennett and Kathryn Long. My gratitude to them both.) Incest was more than a social taboo for the Romans; it was blasphemous. (Though given the Roman male attitude toward their families, I suspect it happened more between father and daughter than we care to think about.) Even if Lucius no longer believed in the gods or thought himself beyond them, 20 years isn't going to be enough time to work past the social conditioning he had received. While we made have found him ruthless in the AMPH flashbacks, there was nothing in them to suggest he was anything but a properly socialized upper-class Roman male. Plus, _she_ was the aggressor, he had just heard her say she had destroyed her maker, which he found appalling, and he definitely seemed uncomfortable about the evil he felt in the tomb. I think it was a combination of these things that made him lose control and kill her. Realistically, what would it matter if LaCroix and Divia had sex? All the mortal reasons incest is taboo don't exist for vampires. Biologically, there is no risk of defective offspring and emotionally, Divia was no longer the child that needed to be protected from a parent's inappropriate sexual impulses. Rather the opposite in this case, it would appear. Perhaps it was the son, Lucius, who needed protection from his mother's "unseemly" advances. Leslie (LoosCanN@a.......) PS. My profound sympathies to the Vaqueros y Vaqueras. I must admit that while I found Vachon amusing and attractive, I only came to love him through Apache's fiction. And I don't think that has been lost to us. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 23:12:14 -0400 From: Apache <lf@c.......> Subject: Re: spoiler: ashes to ashes, interpol, murdered people On Mon, 13 May 1996, OREL, SARA wrote: > of the universe, and a robber probably would not immediately tell the > police that his brother had disappeared. Just the whole thing seemed > very implausible, and the idea that the Toronto P.D. would even check > interpol immediately and get a positive id. within a couple of hours Oh, well, that shoots down my explanation, which was Interpol -- I thought maybe Toronto put the guys fingerprints online or something, and there was a prior "want" for him as an illicit dealer in stolen antiquities, and that's why he came back ID'd so fast. I agree, it's very unlikely the surviving brother -- Hashim, right? -- would immediately have called Luxor PD and said 'officer, officer, we was robbin' a tomb and the most awful thing happened...' I've been really enjoying Sara Orel's Egyptian info, incidentally. Thanks for the posts, Sara! Ap. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:15:45 -0700 From: Bonnela <callalily@l.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Q re: Ashes >I have watched Ashes several times now... and I am just wondering - just what >*does* the graffiti on the door of the Raven say? It says "Fluid Lounge" -- an actual bar in TO where the Raven externals are shot! Kinda odd, if you ask me, that they didn't airbrush that out. Now, *what* is spray painted on the back wall of Vachon's place? -- it was in 'Francesca' and 'Ashes to Ashes' but I couldn't see it clear enough to make it out. Anyone? Bonnie <callalily@l.......> Ultra-Cool Vaquero Web Page --> http://users.lanminds.com/~callalily "Do you have a life?" "Why is that such a popular question? Shut up." -- VVII ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 23:08:05 -0400 From: Ken Hart <Ken888888@a.......> Subject: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes Allow me to join in the chorus of "Me, too's!" praising this episode. It's been wonderful to watch the way that Nick and LaCroix have been dragged kicked and screaming toward a greater appreciation of the other during this season. As someone else said (forgive me for not citing names -- I've just spent the past hour catching up on posts), LaCroix is able to show compassion, fear, angst, etc. and *still* be LaCroix! Great acting by Nigel Bennett. I loved the line about the "disenfranchised": that'll have to become my PC's new Startup sound file. <g> Vachon's exit would have been so much more effective if we had just gotten a little more reaction out of Tracy. I'm not talking about a deluge of tears or anything, but Lisa Ryder's face after she staked him was devoid of emotion, and her farewell to him could have been better as well. Tracy has grown amazingly since the season started, so it's unfortunate to see her "backsliding" at such a crucial time. Someone took Nick to task for not "realizing" that Vachon was in trouble after Urs was killed. Why would Nick jump to that conclusion? LaCroix had a unfortunate problem at the Raven <g>, and Urs said over the intercom that she needed to talk to Nick. He had no reason to think that Vachon was in danger. Even if he knew those vampires "close" to LaCroix were being targeted, I doubt he would have place Vachon in that category. As others have said, it was just Urs and Vachon's bad luck to be near LaC when Divia arrived. And -- wow! -- continuity! A honest-to-goodness link to a previous year's story during the tag! "Vachon said she's a resister -- but I know you've worked your way around THAT before." Wonderful. This episode also causes me to re-read my SIG in a different light... ;) Ken Hart, Raven / Ken888888@a....... / http://www.xensei.com/users/khart LaCroix: "'A father provides love, discipline, guidance, protection, and support' -- That's not bad." Nick: "He left out freedom." LaCroix: "So would I." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:38:17 -0700 From: Lisa Marvin <wyllow@n.......> Subject: Re: Francesca & AtA Raissa Devereux wrote: > Something occurred to me. Francesca established reincarnation in the FK > universe. If Franny can come back to get Nick, that does not bode well > for LC. What's to say that Divia's soul won't transmigrate to reek havok > on Daddy and his loved ones centuries from now. I posted the other day that the reincarnation thing could also serve as a way for Nick's "soul" to be brought back, perhaps for a movie or whatever. As I watched Francesca, it just seemed obvious that Nick would wonder about his own soul coming back someday (along with what he deemed as its "evil"). If Francesca's soul could come back, then so might his own. Lisa Marvin wyllow@n....... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:58:39 -0700 From: Lisa Marvin <wyllow@n.......> Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes To Ashes Janette Z wrote: I only wish that this episode and LK would air at the > end of a fourth, fifth, or sixth season, instead of a third. > > Ravenette, Immortal Beloved, Don't we all! wyllow@n....... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:11:58 -0600 From: Gay Eckes <raven@r.......> Subject: Re: LIST: warmth and fuzziness-apology Most humble apologies for my earlier post. I was wrong to make light of the listmom's condition. Unwell is *not* fun. Too much sun today=brain fart. ObFK: Have seen the actress that plays Divia *somewhere* before. Perhaps the fairy in "Legend"? Gay Eckes raven@r....... gdeckes@i....... gdeckes@c....... >> Sagitarian half horse *rear* half << ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 04:13:13 GMT From: Karen Parker <horcgal@u.......> Subject: Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings Ok, someone (Apache?) said spoiler space wouldnt be needed after 9 pm Monday as long as its in the sub.line. But if Im wrong Im sorry! And if my ramblings have been discussed already..sorry again! Im kinda new to FK...middle of 3rd season, so I dont know about LaCroix and the cameo from another ep. but since the girl put the cameo in the box in the Raven....maybe she got her cameo back from LaCroix's office or something in the Raven. Does anyone know what that song was that was playing in the Raven? I couldnt decide if it sounded like Bjork, Cranberries, Cocteau Twins? Divia's mother was from a brothel???? Where'd ya see that at? Is this another one of those Canadian/American versions? I thought they were at a cocktail party and he asked if the kid was still sick and mom got kinda cocky towards him....so I got the impression that maybe he was a General and mom was married to his boss (king,ruler, whatever they had back then) and LC and her were having an affair...and a kid. Of course the show comes on really really late and Im usually fighting sleep to watch it, so I could be wrong. How did Divia get the body from Egypt to Canada??? Think she had a problem at Customs? "anything to declare, Miss?" "yes, a headless corpse, some fruit, and a couple souvenirs" The writers must be really into Shakespeare! There seemed to be a lot of classic stuff in this ep. Urs never got the chance to even "try" to fight off the rabies or whatever Divia transmitted by biting people because she got ripped apart in the elevator not just "bit" like Vachon. Did Nick get bit or just thrown around and scratched up? I have my vcr set to try to record it on sci fi later tonite but being technologically impaired Im not sure it's gonna work, so I probably wont get to see the ep. again. Vachon I dont think is dead. I think that because the stake got yanked back out of him as happened with LaCroix in another ep. (night in question?) and Divia "smoked" when she got staked and they left her staked til she finally did die. Ive never seen any other staking episodes so I dont know if "smoking" is the norm. Now for this Tracey girl....she is not very nice is she??? I dont know if she really likes Vachon or not after watching this ep. She calls him evil and she can "feel" his evil. Yeah! why dont ya just kick him too Trace!!! Even after he looked at her completely shattered by her calling him evil, she goes on to say "thats why wed never work" I think the Tracy in the fan fic is nicer and more caring than the one on the show.....I say the fan fic writers start their own FK tv show!!! Tracy is holding Vachon and says "I never got to tell you how I felt about you" Duh! I think you did dear when you called him "evil" right to his face! (kick any puppies on your way to work?) She totally disappointed me. I expected in this ep. for them to come clean about their feelings for each other before he died. Maybe thats also part of the reason he couldnt fight off the Divia influence....he no longer had anything to fight for. (thanx a lot Tracey!) In the posts from everyone about the other eps everyone was commenting on how "tired" this one and that one looked....did anyone noticed how "fresh" Vachon looked? In every seen he looked like he was gonna bust out laughing any minute! I'd love to see the outtakes from this show. Erasing the memory: Personally that would be a blessing. They arent gonna erase her whole memory of Vachon/vampires, just the death part. They are gonna make her think he had to leave town. Ive lost a lot of friends, Id love to totally forget that they died and beleive that they are alive and well and in another town somewhere. Nigel Bennet: Although Ive yet to see any of the first/sec. season eps that everyone says are the best LC eps. I think AtA there were great emotional transitions in the character. Most actors rely on the dialog to convey emotion, but Ive noticed that Nigel Bennet and Ben Bass are both very good at doing this with simple looks and gestures. Which makes a character more beleivable I think. Oh, before I get jumped...when I said "most actors" I wasnt refering to any of the other cast members of FK. Ok, Im gonna get hollered at for such a long post, but I hate posting 2-3 times with the same subject, figured I might as well say it all in one breath! bye Ceirdwin (Karen) If you must know about the name thing, e-mail off-list and I'll explain...I get a lot of Q's on IRC about it. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 00:13:53 -0400 From: "Meredith E. Pickering" <Plan2@a.......> Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Ashes to Ashes (ep 21) In a message dated 96-05-13 20:51:16 EDT, Sandra Gray writes: >I liked some of the "gliding rather than walking" feeling of some of >the movements of LaCroix and Divia and some of the special effects >photography from Divia's viewpoint (as she's observing various vampires). As soon as the P.O.V. of Divia was taken by the camera, I started calling it Divia-Vision ... My best friend asked me today whether that was more closely related to division or television... I dunno, it has a certain ring to it, doesn't it? Meredith Natpacker, N&NPacker, Drackpacker Living in a Susan Garrett story (gee, thanks Susan...) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 00:37:42 -0400 From: Apache <lf@c.......> Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings On Tue, 14 May 1996, Karen Parker wrote: > Ok, someone (Apache?) said spoiler space wouldnt be needed after 9 pm > Monday as long as its in the sub.line. But if Im wrong Im sorry! And if my > ramblings have been discussed already..sorry again! This has to do with the V-loop, folks -- not fkspoilr. All pronouncements about this list have to come from the Listowner or Assistant Listowners, none of whom is me. The V[achon]-loop's only rule, ruthlessly enforced by yours truly, is no spoilers for unaired eps. In true slacker spirit worthy of our idol, I look forward to presiding over a rule-less list (as opposed to a listless Rule at, say, St. Stephen's Monastery for the Terminally Enervated?) come next Monday at 9 pm EDT. Ap. who gave a poetry reading at the Folger Shakespeare Library tonight and is now watching rather carefully for Francesca. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 23:57:53 CDT From: "OREL, SARA" <FA55@n.......> Subject: spoiler: yet more on Ashes to Ashes (a ykyb...) I am sorry, but I must differ from the person who mentioned that Divia was Lacroix's only living child... Didn't our "friendly" (read: buyable) merc Dianne conclusively prove that Sandra is a descendant of another one? Or was that in Real Life again? I get my series mixed up... I had an explanation for the slow panning, circling scenes in this episode and (is it Trophy Girl) at least one other! Vamps can fly really slowly, more like levitation. It looks odd to us, and would to breathers, but it is something they can do when they are on their own, in privacy. Kinda fun, I suppose. And my ykybwtmfk is that today (portfolio reading days are here again...) I got to read a twenty page paper someone turned in for an abnormal psych class about the power of blood on some psychos and a history of vampires, and people who have been called vampires, and people who have thought they were vampires, and the woman did not mention FK (of course, I suppose) and I wanted to complain the study was incomplete. Oh well, I wonder if anyone in the show has read the stories about Real Life? Nigel, you really should... Particularly you. Mercenarily yours, Sara Orel (still the only one without an "h" on-list) FA55%nemomus@a....... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:08:38 -0700 From: Denise Underwood <ithildin@m.......> Subject: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes Just a question and a few thoughts Question: On the subject of LC killing Divia due to her making advances. When she was demanding he give into her, was she compelling him thru their link as Master/Fledgling? If she were, that may make the reason for him killing her seem less of an overreaction. If he was looking at an eternity of her using her hold over him to make him do her will, he might have seen it as his only option. Since I came in near the end of season two, I am unsure of just what kind of power a Master holds over his/her fledglings. And if it has to do merely with the bond, or if the age and power of the Master has something to do with it. Goodness, this ep was so incredible! Where to begin... All of you previously have said so many great things about it already, I don't know what I could possibly add (but you know I will try!). Nigel was superb, I can't believe the range of emotion he gave LC, no words were necessary, his expressions said it all. The actress that played Divia was great. How someone so young could be so convincingly menacing without it seeming silly is amazing. The interplay between LC and Nick, they surely have come a long way since "Dark Knight", so wonderful to see an evolving relationship on TV. The scenes at the precinct were priceless, LC in the holding cell had me FOOTCL, and hearing "The truth is out there" from Reese!! The music, terrific! The mood of the whole ep drew me in and didn't let me go for an hour. I could go on an on, but I won't :) Now I anxiously await/dread the coming end...... BTW, do you think Divia bought her coat from Immortal Clothiers, inc.? Clothing with that magical little pocket for hiding the weapon of your choice! Leaving now to watch it for the third time! Denise ~The Cousinly Ravenette~ ~TEDT~ ~IRC #Foreverknight Recruiter~ ithildin@m....... ** Ask me about Forever Knight chat every evening on IRC EFNet!! ** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:36:58 -0700 From: Valery King <kingv@u.......> Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes spoiler stuff/ramblings On Tue, 14 May 1996, Karen Parker wrote: > Does anyone know what that song was that was playing in the Raven? I > couldnt decide if it sounded like Bjork, Cranberries, Cocteau Twins? That song is "The Hunger", an original song for FK by Fred Mollin (hi, Fred!) that you can find on the Forever Knight soundtrack CD. > Divia's mother was from a brothel???? Where'd ya see that at? ... I > thought they were at a > cocktail party and he asked if the kid was still sick and mom got kinda > cocky towards him... Since you haven't seen 2nd season you can be excused for being confused <g>. Divia first appeared last season in "A More Permanent Hell", and that's how we know that the scene was in a brothel, that Seline was Lucius' lover and the brothel owner, and Divia his illegitimate child. I kinds like the story you extrapolated from the brief scenes we got, however :) --Valery kingv@u....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 01:15:28 -0500 From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......> Subject: Re: Sipping Nancy Fralic writes: >But why would the ability to sip be any different than the ability to >bring someone across? Bringing someone across only requires that the vampire stop feeding before the mortal dies. With "sipping", a vampire could stop after any quanitity of blood (even just a "sip" :) ). We saw Nick in Dead of Night unable to control his blood lust enough to be able to bring Alyssa across (unless one wants to subscribe to the idea that LC tampered with things in some way to ensure that Nick *didn't* bring her over). As for your comments about Nick in the flashback to Unreality TV (where he is a Union doctor in the Civil War), I don't see that as any evidence of sipping. With his vampire senses, Nick would easily be able to tell who was dying of the wounded brought in and feed on such a person at or just after death. Additional to that is just the fact that various wounds (and necessary amputations) would spurt blood that Nick could collect and drink without laying a fang to anyone. Not to mention (even though it's gross) that in more dire straits, Nick could suck bloody bandages after he had exchanged them for fresh bandages on the wounded. Even LC hasn't been shown bringing across that many people (although more people than Nick). It's possible that there's a danger of inadvertant bringing over of people if they are "sipped" (as happened with Jack the Ripper in Bad Blood). Until sipping was introduced to the show, the impression was that vampires sucked people to death. And I still think it adds more drama and danger than "sipping", and makes Nick's decision *not* to feed on humans more powerful. --Sandra Gray, forever Knightie --tmp_harkins@d....... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 02:31:31 -0400 From: Janette Z <Janette92@a.......> Subject: Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes -- serious In a message dated 96-05-12 05:33:42 EDT, you write: >>V: "Tracy? >>T: <mumble mumble> >>V: "Wish me luck." > >She says: "I'm here" That's odd. I put my TV on closed caption to try and figure it out, and THAT said that she said "I love you." It doesn't SOUND like that's what she's saying though. It sounds more like Javier, though terribly said. It COULD be I'm here. Just thought I'd tell you what my TV's saying. (Though I don't think it sounds like she was saying that.) CO-CFW for Evil MacLeod and Evil Tessa, Richie Reservist, Seducer, Cousin, Ravenette Immortal Beloved, Janette92@a....... =========================================================================
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