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FKSPOILR

Logfile LOG9605 Part 23

May 12-May 13, 1996

File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 23

	TOPICS:
	can't risk it (no spoilrs)
	Ashes to Ashes/evil stations
	Warm Fuzzies
	Warm Fuzzies--sorta goofy
	Quick Question - AtA spoiler
	Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes - shallow
	Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes
	SPOILER: Ashes To Ashes
	ashes to ashes at last  (4)
	spoiler: ashes to ashes, amph, timing
	Ashes: why Vachon is NOT DEAD
	Spoiler:  Ashes to ashes (what else?)
	SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes  (5)
	SPOILER - last 3 eps, mostly Ashes; Nigel at SyndiCon
	ASHES TO ASHES(incest)
	Ashes to Ashes -- family...  (2)
	Tracy's words
	ASHES TO ASHES(religion)  (2)
	Spoiler: Ashes
	SPOILER: AtA
	AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!
	Spoiler: Ashes --Divia's knowledge

=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 23:44:12 -0500
From:         TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject:      can't risk it (no spoilrs)

Gotta go nomail again.  I;m having nightmares about accidentally finding a
LK spoilr on one of the lists!  See everyone next week!

Wicked Cousin Tippi, dollar bill wrangler of the Thong Throng!
Charter Member of the Unnamed Faction.  Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix.
Visit my World Wide Wickedness FK site!  Top Tens and other Wickedness!
http://www.netcom.com/~tippinb/wicked.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 01:14:34 -0500
From:         Laura Ruggiero <larug@s.......>
Subject:      Ashes to Ashes/evil stations

CH 12 (SE MO./So. IL) IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!
I was watching AtA (which should just now be finishing), throughout the
signal has had 5-15 seconds of interferance cropping up. Then about 45
minutes into the ep,in the commerials just after Vachon is staked, the
signal fuzzes out, and all that is left is the off-the-air signal.  Then
several minutes of the station logo.  It's a good thing my neighbors are
gone or the police might have been called, I was rather loud.
Then they got commericals back on. I cheered.
Then, in a fit of evil worthy, appearently , of Divia  THEY SINGED OFF THE
AIR!!
 (*&%&* &%*%$*& *%*$#%^ STATION!

I managed to stay unspoiled too.
They WILL be hearing from me.
I can only hope my mom manages to tape the Sci-Fi channel broadcast
tonight.  (She lives in an area that gets it) <sniff>

Oooh I can't wait for the tape, I hope all your spoilers are very, very
detailed.

I'm so mad right now it's going to take hours for me to calm down enough to
go to bed.

Laura R
A very, very upset Die-Hard
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 23:16:09 -0700
From:         Bonnela <callalily@l.......>
Subject:      Warm Fuzzies

There was a rumor way back when we were innundating the cast and crew with
presents that Jamie's Warm Fuzzies ended up *everywhere* on the set!

Has anyone noticed a warm fuzzy in any of the new eps?  On Nick's fridge?
On Tracy's desk?  Covered in cob webs at the church?

Oh, and in 'Francesca' and 'Ashes to Ashes' -- what is spray painted in blue
and white on the brick wall of Vachon's place?

Bonnie  (callalily@l.......)
Ultra-Cool Vaquero Web Page -->  http://users.lanminds.com/~callalily

"Do you have a life?"  "Why is that such a popular question? Shut up." -- VVII
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 May 1996 23:43:28 -0700
From:         Idalia Kakesako <idaliak@i.......>
Subject:      Re: Warm Fuzzies--sorta goofy

(If this post *looks* weird, I apologize.  I'm in the process of
switching over to Netcom, and I don't quite know how to work everything
yet.  If it just *is* weird ... well, that's intentional.)

On Sun, 12 May 1996, Bonnela wrote:
>There was a rumor way back when we were innundating the cast and crew
>with presents that Jamie's Warm Fuzzies ended up *everywhere* on the
>set! >Has anyone noticed a warm fuzzy in any of the new eps?  On
>Nick's fridge?  On Tracy's desk?  Covered in cob webs at the church?

I've been wondering that too.  Maybe some got trapped in the two blond
detectives' hair, thus causing that just-caught-in-a-tornado look
they've been sporting lately.  And maybe the Fuzzies conspired to hide
the Eyebrow Pencil of Doom in a dusty, fuzzy corner of the Raven,
saving Uncle from himself.

But, really, has anyone seen Jamie's cute critters?  Were there any on
Reese's desk in "Jane Doe", maybe in the scene with the Magically
Moving Mugs?

Idalia Kakesako, up too late
Light Cousin with NatPack sympathies
completely digest-ed at <NPYF15B@p.......>
partially digest-ed at <idaliak@i.......>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 03:27:09 -0400
From:         Melissa Puzio <miss68@p.......>
Subject:      Re: Quick Question - AtA spoiler

Dotti Wrote:

>Yea, it happens in "I Will Repay" when Nick stakes Nat's Brother
>Richard...he sort of flares up and disappears.

So is this what happens to youngins?  Cause Divia and Vachon and Urs left
corpses.
Cousin Mel
*NatVampCamp*Valentine*Chiante Drinking Member of the Thong Throng*
*High Priestess of Jagrism at Temple Nedved*
miss68@p......., Penchk68@a......., or CousinMel@p.......

If any of the Pens mailing list people are wondering what that other stuff
is about, its a Forever Knight thang"
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 03:31:04 -0400
From:         Melissa Puzio <miss68@p.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes - shallow

Bonnella wrote:

>>Nick, Vachon, Divia -- they could all use a bit of extra conditioner!  Oh,
>>and those bangs on Vachon are absolutely painful to look at (and I *know*
>>bangs).

I actually loved Nick's hair in this episode.  It was medium length (medium
length for a man) and wavy.  Oooh the kind you'd love to rake your hands
through.  Now Vachon and Divia were definately having bad hair years.  They
could use a couple of vials of Frizz-Ease.
Cousin Mel
*NatVampCamp*Valentine*Chiante Drinking Member of the Thong Throng*
*High Priestess of Jagrism at Temple Nedved*
miss68@p......., Penchk68@a......., or CousinMel@p.......

If any of the Pens mailing list people are wondering what that other stuff
is about, its a Forever Knight thang"
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 04:07:04 -0400
From:         Melissa Puzio <miss68@p.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoilers: Ashes to Ashes

>On Sun, 12 May 1996, Carrie Krumtum wrote:
>
>> I don't get the scene in the car when Tracy pronounces her understanding of
>> the 'evil' in Vachon. Where did that come from?

I hate this part, where Tracy says evil is a part of you, meaning Vachon as
a vampire.  Tracy, WAKE UP!!! Evil is a part of ALL OF US, humans and
vampires alike.  It just depends on how magnified the part is.

Stepping off my soapbox of Cousinly Philosophy

Cousin Mel
*NatVampCamp*Valentine*Chiante Drinking Member of the Thong Throng*
*High Priestess of Jagrism at Temple Nedved*
miss68@p......., Penchk68@a......., or CousinMel@p.......

If any of the Pens mailing list people are wondering what that other stuff
is about, its a Forever Knight thang"
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 04:58:31 -0400
From:         Janette Z <Janette92@a.......>
Subject:      SPOILER: Ashes To Ashes

   Wow...... there isn't enough I can say about this episode!!!  I don't
think there has ever been a more... SCARY episode then ATA.  It had my heart
pumping every single minutes, during the commercials I had to take deep,
DEEP, breaths to calm my heart down from beating so fast.  The person who
plays Divia.... EXCELLANT job!  And LaCroix managed to be decent and
almost... emotionally vulnerable.... (WOW!) and still be LaCroix.  I have no
complaints.  I'm sorry that Vachon was killed, and I can't understand why
Tracy was such a cold-hearted *itch in the car with him, but even that I
couldn't care less about!!!  I've come out of the closet know, this episode
pulled forth all of my Cousin-ly emotions!  (Now how can I fit it in my
sig.....?)  There's so MUCH that can be said about this episode, and I'm sure
others can say it more gracefully and elegantly than myself.
   What really got to me was, well, just about every single second!!!  I
convinced my roommate to watch it with me, and she, the eternal FK-Hater, was
speechless.  To quote her exactly.... "Is this show always this.... GOOD?!!!"
 Poor girl, I don't think she'll ever recover from the shock of liking FK :-)
 This definitely takes the place of Fever in the number one spot.  And Nick
restraining LC against going to Divia...... <sniff>I didn't think I'd stop
crying!!!  What an EP!!!!  It was like.... fan fiction!!!  Everything you
ever wanted to happen DID! (Well, I didn't want Vachon to die, but....)
 Excuse me while I go rewatch it, again... and again... and again...
  If the show must end, I hope Last Knight is as wonderful and well put
together as this one.  I only wish that this episode and LK would air at the
end of a fourth, fifth, or sixth season, instead of a third.

Ravenette, Immortal Beloved,
Seducer, Cousin, CO-CFW
for Evil MacLeod and Evil
Tessa, Richie Reservist,
Janette92@a.......

(HEY, if fits!!!)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 06:09:27 -0400
From:         Karen Kasting <KatrynK@a.......>
Subject:      ashes to ashes at last

Had this been my introduction to the series, I would have chuckled my way
through it, since most of it was overcooked and overblown.  But since I do
know the characters, such as some of them are, watching it was even more
painful.

I thought I was going to really relish watching Vacant --finally-- croak.
 Stupid people--and stupid characters-- annoy me, especially when they have
no redeeming qualities of heart or soul.  (No, I don't consider overpermed
hair a redeeming quality, no more than Vacant's blank, staring, empty,
*vacant* eyes which to me never revealed more than dull-witted slowness of
the synapses...)  But Vacant's croaking went on and on and on.  I almost left
the room to nuke a bitty pizza.

Lisa Ryder looked embarrassed to be in the scene at all.  She should be.  All
that tedious emotional rambling...arising from no basis at all.  Trace and
Vacant *had* no history.  For all of that gushing, they could only be
mutually hallucinating and indulging in fantasies.  I had to wonder what Dr
Laura would tell Trace about her imagined attachment to her supernatural
friend.

Vacant was a bad idea from the beginning, coldly calculated to win over
anyone gulled by a face.  But he's gone;  pity the character was allowed to
last long enough to do damage.  Anyone who really misses Vacant, well, tv
dishes up lots of prettier faces every day.

Karen Kasting
KatrynK@a.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 07:36:09 -0400
From:         Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject:      Re: spoiler: ashes to ashes, amph, timing

At 10:54 PM 5/12/96 CDT, Sara wrote:

>What do you suppose would have led the Toronto P.D. to check with the
>Egyptian government (and it doesn't seem as though they would be that
>organized to be able, within 24 hours, to let Toronto know that the
>man was missing from a tomb in Luxor)?  I mean, it is not as though he was
>carrying his passport when he was brought to Toronto (yeah, right --I can
>just see Divia stopping to pick up his papers when she had the body).

I believe I've heard that whenever there's an unknown like that murdered
descriptions are put out over the computer lines asap to police files all
over the world. Obviously his brother reported him missing to the police
after he disappeared. We know how quickly things travel across computer
wires, it was probably a matter of hours if that long. Also, don't think the
Egyptian government isn't up-to-date with things - they certainly are.

Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 09:51:31 -0400
From:         Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject:      Re: ashes to ashes at last

AH, Karen.  Now you're making me post again.  The main reason I don't post
is because of some of the nasty treatment being dished out by some of the
list people to other list people.  Your post, has just jumped to the top of
my list for cold and unfeeling.

Whether or not you like a character is no reason to trash the people that
do. Particularly your parting shot: "was a bad idea from the beginning,
coldly calculated to win over anyone gulled by a face.  But he's gone;  pity
the character was allowed to last long enough to do damage.  Anyone who really misses Vacant, well, tv
dishes up lots of prettier faces every day."

(Forgive me for going over the 4 line repost but I think it's important). I
have said that I thought Tracy and Vachon were sort of wasted, but never,
ever have I been so cold about it. There are fans out there who truly cared
about that character and what he could have possibly been (Hi Apache) who
are truly upset by his death, and you should have enough respect for these
people's feelings to curb what you say. You can say you don't like the
character, you can say his death didn't bother you, but there is no reason
to be as nasty as you were.

But then, your entire post was tinged with nastiness, you're entitled to
your opinion ofcourse, but you're not entitled to hurt feelings while
expressing it.

Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 06:55:13 PDT
From:         "Leslie I.Plummer" <lplummer@i.......>
Subject:      Re: Ashes: why Vachon is NOT DEAD

>Which means anybody in that park when he gets enough better to return
>to consciousness and climb out of the ground is in Big Trouble <g>.

--And, isn't that a nifty tie-in (or reference back) to the ep w/Perry
  the dog!  Wasn't it a hand of a vampire reaching out of the ground,
  in the park that Perry encountered & then bit Perry...
--Wouldn't that explain why Screed/Vachon/ etc. might not know of who
  fed from Perry?  Nick assumed it was one of Screed's kind.  But, if a
  vamp has been interred many years, he/she would be RAVENOUS for
  anything of blood, hence a vamp might drink from Perry.  AND, they
  might not know of this vamp's under-earthly "existence"...
--Lastly, it also ties into how Perry could feed off his master (a human).
  If it weren't a "proper" vamp who brought Perry across, it might have
  been more difficult (or impossible?) for Perry to bring her across?
  OK, there was the love of master/compassion aspect to Perry... and we
  all know love has no boundaries... right?

Just some idle thoughts to tie things into a nice, neat bundle.

p.s. I attended SYNDICON, East in Baltimore.  I missed Nigel!
But, I got a great bumper sticker when I met PN Elrod.  It says:

        LACROIX FOR PRESIDENT:
 Put a REAL Bloodsucker into Office!


Leslie
***FOREVER MEANS...FOREVER!!!***
Charter N&NPacker!
Wild Romantic!
Holding Breath will next week!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 10:00:06 -0400
From:         Naomi P Kraus <npk1@c.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler:  Ashes to ashes (what else?)

On Sun, 12 May 1996, Antonia Spadafina wrote:
>
>  "Do you all think a vampire is evil simply because he exists?"

    Nope!  I've been giving this some thought and I think vampires aren't
evil simply because they exist.  They may have more opportunity to
indulge in acts deemed evil by the rest of society.

> " A vampire doesn't follow a moral code, either.  He follows the code of
>survival.....Remember, a relatively holy woman (a priestess) made Vachon
>and although he killed, he didn't seem to revel in the bloodlust as
>Francesca did."
>
 I disagree with this.  Vachon's master did give him a moral code to
follow (can't remember the exact quote but something on the order of
letting those who love and value life live and those who don't, die) and
and at different times throughout the show, Nick, Vachon and even Lacroix
have demonstrated that they possess some form of morality. (In Ashes the
memories of Divia's murdering children was obviously morally repugnant to
Vachon and Lacroix's horror at Divia's suggestion I think was also
generated from a sense of morality.

It is true that Vampires kill -- an inherently immoral act -- to survive
but not all of them glory in it.  Vachon corrected Urs when they first met
when she told him "You live to kill," with "We kill to live."
(sorry about the grammar here, I didn't get much sleep last night, I
stayed up to rewatch Ashes)

N. P. Kraus
Vaquera in Mourning
npk1@c.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 10:10:22 -0400
From:         Naomi P Kraus <npk1@c.......>
Subject:      Re: ashes to ashes at last

On Mon, 13 May 1996, Dotti Rhodes wrote:

> " There are fans out there who truly cared about that character and what
he could have possibly been (Hi Apache) who are truly upset by his death,
and you should have enough respect for these people's feelings to curb
what you say."

As one of those upset people -- who thought the writer's did screw around
with the character this season and didn't like him for his pretty face --
well not JUST for his pretty face -- I second the motion.  A little
courtesy never hurt anybody!!

N.P. Kraus
Vaquera and proud of it!
npk1@c.......
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 10:13:07 -0400
From:         Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes

At 06:26 PM 5/12/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I am assuming that the master was a pile of ashes at this point, and I'm
sure LaCroix moved quick enough to get her in there and close it up again to
avoid the master getting back out.

At least, that's what I figured...
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 10:15:01 -0400
From:         "Meredith E. Pickering" <Plan2@a.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes

In a message dated 96-05-12 23:32:55 EDT, Kat writes:

>She said she staked him and scorched him to ashes in the sun. (Which even
>Vachon remembered.)

But(she said, rationalizing her argument):
1.  I thought she just said that she scorched him (without reference to
ashes).
2.  Why was the seal with the sun-god on it necessary to keep him entombed if
he was only a pile of ashes?
3.  (In a different vein (pun intended))  When the heck did Divia have time
to kill her Master (or even be annoyed by his control) if she didn't leave
Pompeii before bringing LaCroix across?

That said, I'll return to work...
Meredith
Natpacker, Nick&Natpacker, Dracpacker
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 10:59:56 -0400
From:         Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject:      Re: ashes to ashes at last

On Mon, 13 May 1996, Karen Kasting wrote:

>
> I thought I was going to really relish watching Vacant --finally-- croak.
>  Stupid people--and stupid characters-- annoy me, especially when they have
> no redeeming qualities of heart or soul.

        Makes me wonder when you quit watching Vachon's scenes -- before
Blackwing, with the seventy year involvement with the Upper Canada
natives, or twelve minutes into Ashes, when he stopped to help a weeping
girl and got a fatal wound for his kindness.

        But really... de gustibus, ya know?  I was a fan before this year,
but I like the hair, eyes, Spanish background, sympathy with native
peoples and lack of angst.  I liked his irony, too.  Some people blamed
the new characters for the loss of Janette and Schanke; to me that's a
sins-of-the-father transference.  But again, no arguing with tastes.
One might argue with intemperance or bad manners, but not today, and
besides, I've been guilty of both on this list in the recent past.


Apache
not entirely enjoying the "Dr. Laura" crack
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 11:21:51 -0500
From:         Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes

I've finally calmed down enough to post lucidly about this episode. Jeez,
what a mind-bender! I'm making everyone watch it who will sit still long
enough.

First things first: Congraulations, Mr. Bennett, on an exceptional
performance. What extraordinary depth of character you've given LaCroix in
this ep. I especially loved the facial expression twisting more and more
into fury as Divia prattles on about killing Nicholas. We'll be watching at
next year's Geminis--and TPTB damned well better put your category on TV
this time!

Kudos also to Kathryn Long. What a remarkable combination of
thwarted-toddler temper mixed with adult lust, all punctuated by an evil
that comes as naturally to the character as breath. Keep an eye out for
this one; she got a great future.

Spectacular fight choreography! Favorite moments: Urs and Divia in the
elevator, complete with Jurassic-Park-like velociraptor sound effects;
LaCroix attacking Divia from behind only to be stopped abruptly by her arm
shooting up without her ever looking behind her--wow!

Re Vachon: As a Vaquera, I should be despondent. I'm not! I actually feel
better having seen the death scene I knew was coming. I feel sure now that
Vachon could come back if need be. The relief is profound! And I'll bet
Vaqueras the world over were spontaneously combusting in their seats when
he pulled open his shirt for Tracy to stake him. That chest + those eyes =
severe hormone spill.

The Nick/LaCroix interaction: Priceless. Son supports without condition the
father who has saved him at least twice this season. There's fondness,
empathy, compassion, union. Nick seems to forget that he recently wished
LaCroix dead. Now he wants to save his father as much suffering as
possible. He recalls, with pleasure, the camaraderie and powers that only
vampires can share: witness the sly grin punctuating, "I've seen you work
around that." While I'm exceedingly proud of Nick for being able to put
aside his personal memories of  unspeakable pain at LaCroix's hands for the
greater good here, I think his quest for humanity took a major blow to the
chin. If Dad has a good side, as shown here, and I can feel accepted and
content and part of a family, then what's so bad, really, about being a
vampire?

That leaves Natalie, of course. His tender treatment of her turned my heart
to mush. I just don't understand why he won't let her talk honestly to
Tracy, at least about vampires in general if not himself in particular. As
many vamps as there are in Toronto, Nat's *bound* to have seen one (or the
recent prey of one) by nature of her job. If Nat were to just say to Tracy,
"Hey, I know Vachon was a vampire; wanna talk about it?" how could that
make things any worse? But mine's not to reason why...

A spectacular ep, everybody. TV doesn't ever get any better than this.

With awed respect,
Stephanie (Vaquera who will *never* say die!)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 08:31:43 -0700
From:         LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject:      SPOILER - last 3 eps, mostly Ashes; Nigel at SyndiCon

I'm still zonked from too little sleep and too much fun <g>, but a few
nuggets from Nigel at Syndicon about Ashes to Ashes and other things.
I'm sure there will be more if my brain ever kicks into gear.

According to Nigel, Divia survived, as I think Sarah Welsh suggested,
by ingesting the evil in the tomb from her former master.  She was
imprisoned in the tomb containing what was left of him after she killed
him. This also explained why she was so much more powerful than
LaCroix - it was his strength, added to hers.

He also asked how many people laughed when Divia threw him around the
Raven. <g>

In addition to the scene of LC in the jail with the criminals cowering
away from him, there was an additional scene of his arrival at the cell
which was cut.

Bedard or Lalonde (I think Bedard) was supposed to have a cameo in the
episode as the  delivery guy at the beginning who delivered the box
containing the head.  But the scene was cut.

The last three episodes are indeed related and form a kind of story
arc. Nigel referred to them as "The Killing Fields".

There was a scene cut from Francesca in which Tracy reamed Nick for
going after Frank without backup.  Pot calling the kettle and all
that <g>.

Oh, and Nigel has been logging on almost every night to forkni and
spoiler.  He volunteered his own two cents on the "does Nick get cow
thoughts from cow blood" debate.  Nigel said that the thoughts are
present in the blood for only a few hours after removal from the
source.  After that, the essense of the source fades, so Nick would not
get cow thoughts since the blood is not freshly taken.

Probably more later.

Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 11:41:00 -0400
From:         "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
Subject:      Re: ASHES TO ASHES(incest)

Certainly incest was no less shocking to the Romans than to us.  As far as I
know, it's one of the universal human taboos (though of course the definition
of it differs from one society to another) -- parent-child incest, certainly.
 Remember Oedipus!

All we can say is that, historically, father-daughter liaisons have been seen
as slightly less shocking than mother-son (a reflection of the classical
*pater familias* view of wives and children as the property of the male head
of the household).
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 11:41:03 -0400
From:         "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Ashes to Ashes -- family...

Okay, obviously Divia is LaCroix's own daughter, not his stepdaughter as I
originally thought.  How come in addressing his wife (or mistress?) he calls
Divia "your daughter," not "our" (I listened closely during the flashback)?
 And why does Divia initially address him as General, not Father?  (There was
another anomaly I wanted to mention, but now I've forgotten it.)

Continuity lapse?  Or an indication that the relationship between Divia and
her dad was already strained before his latest absence from home?
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 11:47:31 -0400
From:         Carla Pickering <carlap@e.......>
Subject:      Tracy's words

" Tracy, WAKE UP!!! Evil is a part of ALL OF US, humans and
vampires alike. . ."

Re the above quote--I have to wade through my spoiler mail over lunch, so I
hope I am not duplicating here--

(l)  I can either say--Some ****** put those words in Tracy's mouth, she
really wouldn't say it..... or

(2) Tracy was reacting to the intense and omnipresent evil Divia was
spreading.  It freaked out Urse and everyone else who came within
range.......  I watched the words come out of Tracy's mouth with horror but
decided to put it down to her being freaked out.

More coherence later.

Saille (carla p.) at  Crowhawwk in Exeter, Rhode Island
with Joanna Darkwind the Wolfish Wonderpup
Vaquera and Apricot Sympathizer with Light Cousinly
and Dark N & N Leanings
VACHON LIVES, RAGE AGAINST THE RAVAGING OF THE KNIGHT
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 11:41:01 -0400
From:         "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
Subject:      Re: ASHES TO ASHES(religion)

Oops, I answered the incest question unnecessarily when it had already been
addressed, because I didn't finish reading the list first.  As for
"conversion" to Christianity, I agree that it wasn't LaCroix who converted,
it was the culture around him.  I believe that at least part of the power of
the holy symbols (the other part being objective power of the deity or Deity,
if we hold FK vampirism to be supernatural) resides in the worshippers'
faith.

Question that occurred to me as soon as LaCroix said he would pray for Divia:
 To whom will he pray?  Jupiter or Christ?  Or maybe Mithras, the sun god
popular with 1st-century soldiers?  Now that would be a nice irony.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 09:06:54 PDT
From:         "Leslie I.Plummer" <lplummer@i.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler: Ashes

>2. I never would have thought of Urs and Vachon as being *close* to
>LaCroix.

Nick, Vachon, & URS were the three closest to the Raven, which was where
Divia homed in on Lacroix (notice, not to Lacroix himself...who was "out
for a stroll just aftger sunset"!).  URS had been the first to feel the
evil presence (when she awoke from under the Raven), & called Vachon
for comfort.

So, Divia only had to go on geographical "closeness" to make her revenge.
URS & Vachon were just the first/only 2 to be at the Raven.   Nick came
busting in, right afterwards in "cop" mode.  Hence, three.

The filming of this ep looked like Divia was lingering at (& just
outside) the Raven to learn who was closest & to plot/savor her revenge.

LOCKET!?!:
Someone else mentioned how did she get the locket... that in an earlier
ep, didn't Lacroix have the locket?  How about if it WAS THE LOCKET which
upon which Divia homed in to find her father?!!!  Would fit nicely, that
she knew the locket was there, hence Lacroix must be there.  She wouldn't
have to know that he owned the Raven, or that his quarters were in back.
She put the body in a conspicuous (sp?) place for all to find.  And, she
lurked in the corners of the Raven, observing all.


Leslie
***FOREVER MEANS...FOREVER!!!***
Nick&Nat Packer
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 12:03:18 EST
From:         Ronni Katz <ronnik@c.......>
Subject:      SPOILER: AtA

     In response to a spoiler post by Apache as to who made the
     vampire that made Divia being something Biblical, I have a
     suggestion : CAINE  - he was the first murderer (he killed
     his own brother, Abel) and according to some mythos, IS the
     first vampire!

     So, if Caine made the Priest-Vampire that made Divia and then
     Divia made LC, oh, gosh, Nick is a 5th Generation Vampire (scary,
     thought, eh??)  It would also explain how he survived Divia's
     attack as well (regenration abilities and all that).

     Nick, imho, played possum and *let* Divia beat the crap out
     of him.  He probably assumed (correctly as we find out) that
     allowing her to *think* she killed him would be the best way
     to survive her attack.  Nick faked being dead.  He allowed his
     injuries to heal and then dashed off to the Raven to save Dad
     who he *knew* was next on evil Divia's hit list.

     This was the *best* episode of season 3.  Nigel was fantastic!
     It was a Cousin's dream come true *sigh*!   It was worth staying
     up until 3AM to see it (our syndicated station was, for some
     unknown reason, airing FK an hour later than normal but, every
     other show they had on before it was also an hour off schedule...!)
     So I'm bleary eyed here at work writing this note instead of being on
     AutCAD doing a PCB redesign because my brain can only deal with
     FK right now after the *intense* experience of watching AtA....

     If "Last Knight" is half as good as this ep was, man oh man oh man oh
     man oh man!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     Ron the Enforcer
     RonniK@e.......
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 07:34:07 -0700
From:         Chuck Harding <charding@p.......>
Subject:      AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

There. I vented. But I don't feel better. Not only did I have
to put up withthe collapse of the FK universe thatis occurring
before our eyes, but to add insult to injury, the #$&()*#%@(&*^!
station, or else Viacom, the cable company for this area, managed
to totally farque up the last third or so ofAtoA with sound
dropouts, noise bars, fluttering, etc. to the point that it
was rather unwatchable. Which means to really be able to enjoy
every nuance of the episode I must wait until the SF channel
shows it today.

--
charding@p....... +++++++++++++++++ Livermore, California, USA
Disclaimer: All OPINIONS expressed in the above message are
            mine, not PDC's. Accept them at your own risk.
alternate addresses: charding%bernal.uucp@l.......
                     charding@i.......
+++++++++++++ KE6OEG DoD#1408 AMA#574450 TKP#1551 +++++++++++
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 12:18:20 -0400
From:         "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
Subject:      Re: Spoiler: Ashes --Divia's knowledge

The way I see it, either of the suggestions about how she learned
contemporary language and culture would work:  She was linked to LC without
his awareness and thereby picked it up, or she absorbed it from her victims'
blood after her revival.  Because she is tremendously powerful, she is able
to assimilate and permanently keep more of her victims' consciousness than
ordinary vampires do.

Why is she so much stronger than LC even though only a bit older?  Simply
because she was directly created by the Ancient One, and LC wasn't?  Or maybe
in the process of killing him she drank his blood and absorbed his power.
 This is a standard (though very taboo) way of increasing a vampire's power
in the game Vampire: The Masquerade.  I don't remember any evidence for it in
the FK canon, but it sounds plausible anyway.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 09:34:49 PDT
From:         "Leslie I.Plummer" <lplummer@i.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes

>Divia was supposed to be "Evil" with a capital E.  What if the same
>symbolism that repelled Divia gave Nick strength to fight back?  I'd like
>to think that all his years of striving more or less determinedly toward
>mortality would have some effect on him.  So, in that case, maybe LaCroix
>was right.  Maybe Nick's "resurgent goodness" *did* have something to do
>with it.

YES!!! What a good point!  This goes back to Sons of Belial & such!
Have we been witnessing a turning point?  The last few eps have all had
Nick brooding about the nature of evil & how can he possible escape it
(achieve his prime goal?)  And, Natalie has been explaining how (at least
how us mortals manage the achievement).  Natalie is SO wise! Perhaps the
scales were tipped a few eps ago & Nick is sliding into the "homeplate"
of GOOD?

***I've not been & don't care to be "spoiled" for LK!! So, please don't
   give up the LK goods in your responses! Thx!***

Just from this note & AtA, I can see Natalie being the KEY to Nick's
redemption & survival?  (Though I don't know what mechanism might
achieve this...)...perhaps the power of LOVE?

...yes, as my name-notes confess....

Leslie
***FOREVER MEANS...FOREVER!!!***
Major N&NPacker!
Wildly Romantic!
Holding my breath till next week!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 11:28:53 -0500
From:         Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject:      Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes

>I think his quest for humanity took a major blow to the chin. If Dad has
>a good side, as shown here, and I can feel accepted and content and part
>of a family, then what's so bad, really, about being a vampire?

That annoying desire to take a human being and suck the blood out of them
in order to possess their very soul, and in the process, kill them.

Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 11:39:14 -0500
From:         Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject:      Re: ASHES TO ASHES(religion)

>Question that occurred to me as soon as LaCroix said he would pray for Divia:
> To whom will he pray?  Jupiter or Christ?  Or maybe Mithras, the sun god
>popular with 1st-century soldiers?

It doesn't seem to me there has to be a name for it.

Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 May 1996 10:14:10 -0700
From:         Valery King <kingv@u.......>
Subject:      Re: Ashes to Ashes -- family...

On Mon, 13 May 1996, Margaret L. Carter wrote:

> Okay, obviously Divia is LaCroix's own daughter, not his stepdaughter as I
> originally thought.  How come in addressing his wife (or mistress?) he calls
> Divia "your daughter," not "our" (I listened closely during the flashback)?
>  And why does Divia initially address him as General, not Father?  (There was

Divia's mother is the owner of a brothel, and not married to Lucius.
While he is Divia's father, she is illegitimate and it appears that while
it's known that he's her father, and he does some parenting when he's
there,he isn't publicly acknowleding the fact (which could explain some of
Divia's resentment).

--Valery
kingv@u.......
=========================================================================

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