FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 17
May 10-May 12, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 17
TOPICS:
Spoiler: Last Knight
Franscesca--Nick
SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
Francesca notes (3)
Tracy--ditzy?Francesca
Francesca -- details details
SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes (2)
Don Constantine, etc.
Sipping (4)
SPOILER: Francesca, New Points (4)
Francesca - Blood knowledge (4)
SPOILER: Francesca
SPOILER: Francesca, N
Spoiler: Francesca: Vachon & Tracy (tiny bit AtA, too) (2)
Daylight (2)
A Request (2)
spoilers: francesca & french & canada
Quick Question - AtA spoiler
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 07:41:41 -0700
From: Cynthia Hoffman <choff@v.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Last Knight
On Fri, 10 May 1996, Jamie Melody Randell wrote:
quoting me quoting someone else:
> >> And I loved her that she did pity them. This only is the witchcraft I
> >> have used." William Shakespeare.
> >And we all know what happened to Desdemona, now, don't we?
> If you're gonna go tossing around this "highfalutin' literary stuff" <vbg>
> please elaborate on the theme a bit, for those of us who opted not to go to
> college in favor of following rock bands around on tour?
Well, some of us did both ... however ...
Othello speaks those immortal lines about Desdemona in Act 1, scene 2 I
believe of the play that bears his name.
In act 5, he kills her.
You asked.
Cynthia, also not a librarian
Cynthia Hoffman/choff@v.......
Raven ** IB ** MBDtK
We cater to the occasional fetishist
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 10:48:50 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: Franscesca--Nick
At 10:10 AM 5/10/96 EDT, you wrote:
>Give poor ole' Nick a break. I mean, he's having a bad hair day,
>for goodness sake. It probably took away from his mental faculties. (-;
>
AARRGH! On both lists you have to insult his hair? Leave his hair alone,
it's got that "anyone wanna play in it" look at that's my favorite. And, as
said on the other list, if I'm reading into Nick's obvious depression,
brushing your hair is not high on your list when you're really depressed.
Besides, that's what we Knighties are for, we'll take care of his
hair...when necessary!!
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 10:53:14 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
At 09:55 AM 5/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
Carrie wrote:
>I just don't think we can BLAME Nick for every death that
>occurs within spitting distance just because he was
>there. This is using Nick's own angst against him. He's
>got enought of it already.
>
Isn't that the truth. Nick looked so full of guilt and angst at the end of
that as he looked down at Frank's body--another "It's all my fault" look. It
looked as if he was wondering if he could have done something differently
himself, to which the answer is no. It was a tragic accident that he could
not prevent. More guilt, ust what he needs. Hey, what time is sunrise??
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 11:38:07 -0400
From: "Nancy M. Duemling" <nancyd@p.......>
Subject: Francesca notes
Did anyone else notice that the hockey-related coffee mugs on Reese's
desk turned without anyone on camera touching them?
Frank's voice was so familiar. Is that guy the one who provides the
voice for the Beast on X-Men? I don't have any tapes to check this
out on.
Nancy D., Knightie and DueSer (nancyd@p.......)
Visit our web site at http://www.msen.com/~duemling/
Nick Knight, Benton Fraser, Ray Vecchio and Brisco County, Jr.
What is it with me and law abiding guys???
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 12:03:40 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: Tracy--ditzy?Francesca
At 08:12 AM 5/10/96 EDT, you wrote:
>If she had been a talented violinist in the past, don't you think she would
>have SOME kind of talent now?
Not necessarily. Past life is just that, past. Perhaps she may hold an
appreciation for it because it hits a familiar chord, but she wouldn't
necessarily have any musical talent now because of what she had 200 years ago.
Particularly when she had to be hypnotized to even get in touch with it.
Having said that I do know what you mean. I know I really hate to have
anything around my neck, and my mother used to tell me it was probably
because I had been hanged in a previous life. (Nice mom, eh..Yikes)
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 09:44:03 PST
From: Diane Roe <jpj0015%j45csulb@o.......>
Subject: Francesca notes
From: Diane Roe
Financial Aid
nancy-
yes, i noticed the coffee mugs, too. i was admiring the illustration
on the one on the left, and then the next shot of the desk it had been
turned around so you could see the maple leafs logo. i also noticed
that the other mug on the right was for the canadians. so is the captain
supposed to be from montreal? and why no canucks mug? ;)
-diane (the other diane), who is a big canucks fan
droe@c.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 12:54:10 -0400
From: Marf Shopmyer <aa108460@d.......>
Subject: Francesca -- details details
From: Ray Heuer <RayHeuer@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
>Vachon is a different case.
One other difference. Nearly everyone thinks of Nick as "Nick" or
"Nicholas". Vachon is one of the few who calls him "Knight". Although why
someone who thinks in Spanish would translate something from French to
English eludes me.
And Marf inserts:
Vachon might be a Spaniard, but I doubt he's thought in Spanish for a
long time. One starts thinking and dreaming in the language used the
most, not necessarily the one first learned. Wasn't V in France during
one o' them eps? He'd make the connection immediately.
What SHOULD he call Nick, "Caballero"? They aren't buddies, they aren't
family.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:43:24 -0400
From: "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
I second Katja's request. I will do my best to tape the whole show Saturday
on Ch. 45, but I can't wait to find out what Vachon's problem was!
It drives me crazy that the Powers of TV grant sports fans priority over the
rest of us. The schedule claimed the game would end at 11 p.m., and it ran
way past midnight. At that point, the regular schedule should resume AS
PROMISED IN THE PRINTED GUIDE, and the baseball nuts should have to get the
running score in an occasional band across the bottom of the screen. This is
a perennial gripe of mine, but I know it will never change.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:43:49 -0400
From: "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
Subject: Re: Don Constantine, etc.
You're all absolutely right about the age issue. How could I have forgotten?
As for dentures, I agree with the belief that missing teeth would be
restored, just as other injuries and illnesses are cured (even retardation
being eliminated by one dose of vampire blood, for heaven's sake!).
So if Nat did consciously decide to become a vampire, she would want to do it
before she got past the prime of middle age.
FRANCESCA did remind me of Saint-Germain in the scene where Nick reveals his
feelings about blood-sharing to Nat. I think the reason is that this is the
first time FK has made explicit this idea of blood conveying the essence of
the self, and that being the reason why human blood is so vital to a
vampire's satisfaction and mental health (if that's the right term) -- and
such a "hard habit to break." Saint-Germain makes it clear that he needs
human blood for the emotions conveyed by it (although he drinks from animals
when necessary). S-G, being a "good" vampire, thrives on eroticism and other
positive emotions. Other vampires in the same series feed on pain and
terror. It appears that the FK system is similar.
I reread the FAQ on factions yesterday and can't find Valentines. If I ever
knew what they are, I forgot. ???
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:23:30 -0400
From: "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
Subject: Re: Sipping
I have been surprised to see someone (Sandra?) repeatedly state that having
vampires drink without killing "weakens" the series. I feel just the
opposite. I intensely dislike vampires who "must" kill every time they feed,
and it takes some highly skilled writing to make me grit my teeth and
overlook it. I think the "must kill" scenario weakens a vampire story by
depriving the vampire characters of a large part of their free will. If they
have a CHOICE as to whether to kill or to feed non-lethally (and perhaps in
mutual sharing with willing donors, as opposed to forcing or hypnotizing
victims), the choice to kill or not has meaning -- they are performing a
moral act, and if they choose killing, they are yielding to the temptations
of evil..
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:27:13 -0500
From: Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
Deb noted Ger's holding that:
>>he didn't want to be the hunk of the month and had "never even
>>unbuttoned my top shirt button" in all the FK episodes. Sigh.
But I beg to differ! In BMV, he very specifically unbuttoned his top shirt
button (and the next one down, as I recall) so that Nat could take a sample
of "a few underexposed skin cells." He quickly buttons them back, of
course...
>In an aol chat, Ms. Horvath stated that she'd written a shirtless scene
>for Nick in Francesca. Too bad it didn't happen.
Probably better--not sure some of us (Hi, Dotti! <g>) could have taken the
strain. It boggles my mind, though, that GWD seems to think that he's not
considered a hunk (his term, not mine) just because he keeps his clothes
on. The male POV, I guess...
ObSpoiler: What happens to the torch both times Francesca drops it
(flashback and current time)? Look for it in the flashback. Can't find it,
can you? If she's lying on it, she should be going up in flames (it took
only a tiny campfire to incinerate Nick's leper child in IWR).
Awaiting AtA tonight with no little trepidation,
Stephanie Babbitt, Vaquera
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:48:39 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
At 02:27 PM 5/10/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Probably better--not sure some of us (Hi, Dotti! <g>) could have taken the
strain. It boggles my mind, though, that GWD seems to think that he's not
considered a hunk just because he keeps his clothes on. The male POV....
>
This is true...I'm not sure if I could have handled that without completely
exploding! However, he must be aware of some of our complaints on the matter
because he sure made sure we saw plenty skin during Taming of the Shrew.
It was as if he were making up for lost time....not that I'm complaining or
anything....I just used up a lot more of my asthma medication during the
show than I did during the whole day....
After watching Francesca and that lovely white shirt, I thought I'd go thru
the episodes (gee, what a chore) and see just how often he wore that kind of
shirt. when I finish, I'll list them....
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:22:11 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: Sipping
Margaret Carter writes:
>If they have a CHOICE as to whether to kill or to feed non-lethally...,
>the choice to kill or not has meaning -- they are performing a moral
>act, and if they choose killing, they are yielding to the temptations
>of evil..
Well, there is some validity to your point, but I still think sipping
weakens the premise of FK. Until they introduced the concept of sipping
to the show, the vampires seemed to be "driven" to kill--it was almost
instinct to do so. To me, for Nick to fight a strong instinct to kill
when feeding on humans and to *give up* feeding on humans shows a much
greater strength of moral character. If a vampire can regularly sip
rather than kill, that, to my mind, would make it easier for Nick to
rationalize that "being a vampire is okay because I'm not hurting
anyone or killing anyone"--he could simply choose to be a "good vampire"
like St. Germain.
To use another example, I've been watching Kindred: the Embraced and
while I enjoy it, it doesn't have near the power or drama as FK. And
part of the reason for that, I think, is that these vampires *can* sip
and don't normally kill. As a result, the vampirism itself is almost
a sidelight feature beside the struggles between the various vampire
clans. These vampires even go out in daylight, but that's another
issue. :)
What attracted me to FK was (and still is) Nick's inner struggle to
try to be good instead of giving in to his "beast". A vampire who can
sip has more *control* of his beast than one who doesn't, imo. There
is more implied danger should Nick lose control if he can't sip. I
guess to me it's a case of "vampires who kill=*real* moral issue for
a vampire who chooses to go against that grain" against "vampires who
sip=*more abstract* moral issue for a vampire who chooses not to feed
on humans".
This doesn't mean that I don't enjoy Yarbro's St. Germain or Rice's
vampires or other vampires in fiction or the media. I just happen to
thing the moral issue of not feeding on humans was stronger for Nick
when sipping was not part of the universe. With sipping, Nick could
just choose, as I said above, to not pursue mortality and just be a
"good" *vampire*. Of course, he could still choose to do that what
with bottled blood and such being available today. But I would bet
that even with bottled blood supplies, the vampires in Toronto *do*
kill humans sometimes. Nick would have that temptation to kill too if
he went back to feeding on human blood (as we've seen increasing
evidence of him backsliding this season indicates, imo).
Part of my attitude may also stem from my feeling that there is a
physical necessity for blood drinking in the FK vampire, and a
preference for human blood as well. And, although it's been hard to
do lately, I favor a natural instead of a supernatural cause for FK
vampirism.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:46:28 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: Sipping
Look at it another way. Feeding the Beast presented blood drinking
as almost equivalent to being an alcoholic. An alcoholic has to
stay away from drink entirely--he or she can't decide, "Well, it'll
be okay to just have one." because one drink makes him or her want
more drinks and pretty soon the person is an active alcoholic again.
So, even though we've seen one (possibly two) instances of sipping
being possible in the FK universe, I get the impression it's not
commonly done by our family of vamps. Remember in Fatal Mistake when
Nick said, "I couldn't stop" (feeding from Alexandra), LC says,
"You're not supposed to." LC thinks nothing of killing mortals. He
would have passed those beliefs on to his children, don't you think?
Personally, I can't see why in the middle of the Vietnam war, LC
and his friends would have been sipping. I would have expected LC at
least to have followed the battles for "free food" like in Unreality
TV.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:53:57 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
Maybe Ger showed more skin during Taming of the Shrew because it wasn't
filmed. Maybe it's *filmed* shots of his skin he objects to (film
hangs around for posterity, you know). I assume they weren't allowing
videotaping or photographing of the play (if I'm wrong and anybody got
any good photos or tape, please let me know!).
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
ObSpoiler: I still think they should have given Nick a nightshirt to
wear--I mean, who *sleeps* in their clothes?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:33:25 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
Deb noted Ger's holding that:
>>he didn't want to be the hunk of the month and had "never even
>>unbuttoned my top shirt button" in all the FK episodes. Sigh.
He had it unbuttoned in Fever and in Ashes to Ashes.
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 20:41:32 -0700
From: "Andrew E. Nystrom" <wo991@f.......>
Subject: Re: Francesca notes
On Fri, 10 May 1996, Nancy M. Duemling wrote:
> Frank's voice was so familiar. Is that guy the one who provides the
> voice for the Beast on X-Men? I don't have any tapes to check this
> out on.
>
Not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me since Catherine Disher is the voice
of Jean Grey on that show.
--Andy
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 20:47:11 -0700
From: Antonia Spadafina <asginger@i.......>
Subject: Francesca - Blood knowledge
Hey there--
Have we totally exhausted the blood knowledge/bovine angle?
If not: the blood NK keeps in the fridge is anywhere from a day to
forever - we never have been told how old or where NK even gets it.
Isn't it plausible that the blood looses its efficacy being stored in
an artificial container (ie., not a body) in a very short time? If the
fresh, warm red stuff looses its potency in an hour or two and it
contains the essence of a soul that is far advanced over a cow (we
should all hope and pray), it should follow that the cow's blood would
have none of the essence of the cow's soul remaining to absorb.
Whew! I need a rest after that one.
Toni
asginger@i.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:50:29 -0700
From: Lisa Marvin <wyllow@n.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
When Nick realized that Francesca's soul had returned, to continue to
live out her desires and bloodthirstiness through a mortal, he seemed
to wonder about the possibility that his own "evil" soul might do the
same thing. He looked at the reincarnation of Francesca as evidence
that his soul, like hers, was truly immortal, that he really would
never be able to be truly mortal and have his "evil" die a final
death. I got the impression that he expects to run across Francesca's
"soul" again one day.
I thought that this idea left an open door to bringing Nick's
character back for a movie or whatever, as the writers could surely
figure out a way to make his "soul" reincarnate the way that
Francesca's did. The whole subject of the vampire's soul being
immortal through reincarnation has many possibilities, because it
sheds a whole new light on Nick's quest for mortality, as well as his
need for redemption, and whether he can ever truly achieve these
things.
Back to lurking.
Lisa Marvin
wyllow@n.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 03:39:00 -0700
From: BECKY BURNS <becky.burns@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca, N
-=>On 05/10/96 15:33, June Russell said to Becky Burns
JR> Deb noted Ger's holding that:
>>he didn't want to be the hunk of the month and had "never even
>>unbuttoned my top shirt button" in all the FK episodes. Sigh.
JR> He had it unbuttoned in Fever and in Ashes to Ashes.
And lest we not forget Night In Question & Games Vampires Play. Trust me,
that's no stunt chest (and please let's not start that argument again)
Bouncin' Cousin Becky w/Knightly leanings
Shrewthering Survivor Suffering from Gerthering envy
... Never wear a Knightie faction t-shirt In the presence of a preacher
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 06:09:10 -0700
From: "Andrew E. Nystrom" <wo991@f.......>
Subject: Re: Francesca - Blood knowledge
On Fri, 10 May 1996, Antonia Spadafina wrote:
> If the fresh, warm red stuff looses its potency in an hour or two and it
> contains the essence of a soul that is far advanced over a cow (we
> should all hope and pray), it should follow that the cow's blood would
> have none of the essence of the cow's soul remaining to absorb.
Of course another possibility is that the time limit comes from the
amount of time the vampire's body takes to metabolize the blood into it's
system (hence the amount of blod afffective the time limit). If this is
the case, refrigeration might not make a difference, as the blood's not
yet metabolized.
--Andy
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 09:48:15 -0500
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject: Re: Francesca - Blood knowledge
I agree with Sandra that this is an unneeded and somewhat messy concept
to add to FK. It's hard to imagine vampire lovers not having any secrets
from each other and entirely ridiculous (imho) to say that mortals being
killed get all of the vampire's memories. If we were left simply with
Last Act and the Francesca flashbacks, I'd say that one got images and
impressions from the blood but not the whole shebang -- enough to
inspire an air of intimacy but not to eliminate all element of mystery or
privacy. But Nick's little speech in the morgue sort of messes that up.
Not that it wasn't very... intriguing, as Natalie found as well, but
logically and pragmatically, it leaves a lot to be desired. For my own
personal wellbeing, I'm going to assume that when Nick spoke of letting
them know his secrets, he was referring to sharing blood with Janette or
another vampire, 'cause that mortal thing really makes no sense to me.
And even then, he should have known before LaCroix pointed it out to him
in the Nazi flashback (ep title escapes me -- Outside the Lines?) that
the woman whose blood he just drank wasn't the informer.
Otoh, this rather effectively solves the flashback debate. If Nick has
had any of LaCroix' blood since WWII at all, he wouldn't have had to be
there to know what went on between LaCroix and Hitler when he left the
car. Of course, if they want to stick to the vamp-mortal significance, he
should be having flashbacks to all sorts of people's lives.
Sarah
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:02:36 -0400
From: Nancy Fralic <fralic@m.......>
Subject: Re: Sipping
On Fri, 10 May 1996, Sandra Gray wrote:
> To me, for Nick to fight a strong instinct to kill
> when feeding on humans and to *give up* feeding on humans shows a much
> greater strength of moral character. If a vampire can regularly sip
> rather than kill, that, to my mind, would make it easier for Nick to
But why would the ability to sip be any different than the ability to
bring someone across? If, for example, Janette has stated that she cannot
control herself enough to bring someone across because she just cannot
stop, why wouldn't the ability to sip be individual to a vampire's
control abilities? I could see LaCroix easily having the ability, but
not necessarily the desire to do it. Nick has done it, but not without
the ultimate death of the mortal - or has he? I just remembered in the
episode with the Civil War photographer and the Enforcers, Nick told
LaCroix that as he worked as a doctor in the field hospital, he only took
as much as he needed to keep working. The implication, I thought, was
that it was human blood he was feeding on, but not necessarily killing for
because: that was inconsistent with trying to save lives; he would be
wasting time hunting, when he could be working; and, I thought, implied
"sipping".
Nancy Fralic
fralic@m.......
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 09:04:40 -0700
From: Antonia Spadafina <asginger@i.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Francesca: Vachon & Tracy (tiny bit AtA, too)
Hi all ---
Here's a question...
At the end of Fever, Tracy leaves Vachon in bed thinking he's a foot from
the grave. In Francesca, they are talking as if no time has passed. What gives
with the continuity? I love Gillian as much as the rest of you, but couldn't a
line like: "I'm glad we'll still have the chance to know one another" (or some
such similar snappy patter) from Tracy to Javier have been inserted? I just
think they could have made much better use of Vachon and even Tracy this season
-
or even just this episode.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++
A to A Spoiler space
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++
But it's all for naught anyway since I learned what I learned from reading
a spoiler of AtA that I knew I shouldn't but couldn't resist <hs>. Apache's
writing just catches me off-guard and then I'm hooked, you know?
BTW, how long do I have to give an episode before it's no longer spoiler
material?
Got to run - it's lunch-time in these parts.
Toni
"For us, there is only the trying. The rest is not our business."
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 13:14:01 -0400
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: Francesca - Blood knowledge
The Vulcan mindmeld version of vampire feeding doesn't work for
me, either, but it's worth noting that Gillian Horvath said it came from
James Parriott, so there it is and there it stays.
It wrecks so many of Nick's rules, though -- if he could tell,
like Santa, who's naughty and who's nice with just a taste, he wouldn't
have needed his 300-year-long rule about sticking to the innocent -- he'd
know right away. He'd have known Sylvaine truly loved him and wasn't
evil; he'd have known whether the woman in the French Resistance was a
traitor or not; he'd have known Serena in Baby, Baby didn't want to be
brought across, just made pregnant-- etc.
It has echoes of the Highlander notion that Immortals swallow
each other's accumulated knowledge and experience in the Quickening --
sort of gulping down the soul in one great electrical/magnetic inrush.
In Highlander, this led to the problem the movie never solved -- what can
the Prize possibly be after such a rush from all the kills. The kid who
wrote the original script (while a film student at UCLA) said he didn't
like the solution he came up with -- you get to be sort of the
Uber-helper of mankind and you can father children -- but it was the only
thing he could think of. The series seems to have the same problem --
what's better than swallowing souls?
Well, now FK has that problem too.
To resolve that problem, I think FK would need to lean hard on the
metaphysical answer -- that vampires are automatically damned souls -- God
is real, the Heavenly afterlife is real -- and that vampires can yearn to
be Good, and Saved, again. This actually sounds a whole lot like first
season to me (the best one, despite being Vachon-deficient) (hey, it's
me). That yearning is what makes Nick such a beautifully tragic character
-- it seems to me that the Lacroix of Ashes to Ashes reinforces that view
of things. And the suggestion in Francesca that the evil that vampires
are lives on after them -- ooo, delicious chilly shiver! More good
deeds, Nick, more good deeds!
Back to blood knowledge -- The saving grace, you should excuse the
expression, is reconciling this new wrinkle with what we knew before.
Erica had to sift through Nick's memories, had to find and sort of capture
the knowledge for her foremind, her conscious knowledge. Maybe it sort of
floods forward and the vampire has to hunt around in it.... like
remembering a dream when you wake up, trying to coax a little bit more of
it into the forefront of your waking awareness. And mortals, as less
focussed creatures -- maybe their memories get away and it all fades to
black in an hour or two.
Unfortunately, I don't buy my own cheesy rationalization. I
remember a lot of two-hour long dreamlike experiences rather vividly.
They're called movies.
Cheers,
Apache
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 13:55:29 -0400
From: "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......>
Subject: Re: Daylight
"These vampires can EVEN go out during the day"? (re Kindred)
Until the movie NOSFERATU introduced that dramatic sunlight-disintegration
scene (imitated on film ever since), having fictional vampires function
during the day was the rule, not the exception. (See DRACULA.) Some
folklore vampires are said to be active during non-nocturnal ranges, too,
e.g. there's one that can function only from midnight to noon.
The "destruction by sunlight" motif is another thing that bugs me in vampire
stories, and again, it takes a strong writer to make me overlook it. I
dislike it (aside from my lit-oriented purist quirks, taking DRACULA as canon
-- but that isn't a terribly valid reason, since I do love a convincing
variation on vampire canon -- oh, well, what was that thing about "a foolish
consistency") because I think it makes the vampires too limited and therefore
less interesting. How afraid can we be of a creature that can be destroyed
by dragging it into the sun? All we have to do is avoid the typical
vampire-hunter stupidity of facing the monster at night. If we know where he
lairs (the tricky part, admittedly), and we follow the convention that he's
not only vulnerable to sunlight but in a helpless coma by day, exercising
ordinary caution means we're home free, and the poor helpless vamp is doomed.
(The vampire in Charles Beaumont's hilarious story -- "Blood Brother," I
think, can't remember -- complains to his analyst about how silly it is for
people to be afraid of vampires, "the most helpless creatures on Earth --
almost anything can knock us over -- sunlight, crosses, GARLIC for goodness'
sake" -- I paraphrase from memory here.)
Sorry, I think I just wandered off topic. Waiting eagerly for another
chance, tonight, of getting ALL of "Ashes to Ashes."
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Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 15:58:10 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Francesca: Vachon & Tracy (tiny bit AtA, too)
At 09:04 AM 5/11/96 -0700, you wrote:
> At the end of Fever, Tracy leaves Vachon in bed thinking he's a foot
from the grave. In Francesca, they are talking as if no time has passed.
What gives
>with the continuity?
Well this is true...but continuity has never been FK's strong suit....but
something like a quick throw away line would have been nice. But, since
they almost never do things like that in FK, I didn't expect it!!
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
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Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 13:55:38 -0700
From: Elizabeth Mosler <emosler@l.......>
Subject: Re: Daylight
>"These vampires can EVEN go out during the day"? (re Kindred)
>
>
I have become a big fan of "Kindred: the Embraced." Does anyone know if
there is a discussion group for the show? And if so, what is its
subscription address?
elizabeth m. <emosler@l.......>
Personal Home Page: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~emosler/rose.html
Work Home Page: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~emosler/binding.html.
*Jody to Perry the Vampire dog: "Good boy!" Woofpacker forever!*
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 19:32:34 -0700
From: Antonia Spadafina <asginger@i.......>
Subject: A Request
Hi there --
Can anyone out there send me:
SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes Part 2/2 Long from LC Fenster on
Fri, 10 May 1996 06:06:19 -0700
I AM ABSOLUTELY GOING TO STRANGLE THESE NETCOM BOZOS!!!!
Sorry, I am calm now.
Thanks in advance...
Toni
asginger@i.......
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Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 22:48:36 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Re: A Request
> Can anyone out there send me:
> SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes Part 2/2 Long from LC Fenster on
> Fri, 10 May 1996 06:06:19 -0700
I sent this to her.
>
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
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Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 01:48:58 -0300
From: Paula Hurley <dkknight@a.......>
Subject: Re: spoilers: francesca & french & canada
>I took French Immersion for quite a while. Want to know what I thought
>"Chevalier" meant?
>
>Hmmm....
>cheval = horse
>chevalier = horseman?
>
Oh my God, I nearly died laughing when I read this. I can't believe there is
actually someone else out there who thinks the same way I do!!! I didn't
take French Immersion(it got integrated here after I had graduated to higher
grades), but I thought the exact same thing when I heard chevalier.
Paula
dkknight@a.......
Dark Knightie * Light Cousin * Valentine * Nick&NatPacker * Member of the CSS *
"It's ALWAYS about YOU!" - LaCroix(Can't Run, Can't Hide)
"If this is the cure, give me the disease!" - LaCroix(The Fix)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 00:00:02 -0500
From: TippiNB <Tippinb@i.......>
Subject: Quick Question - AtA spoiler
Hi all. I just set fkspoilr to "mail" after about a month of being nomail
so apologies in advance if this question has already been answered. I just
saw Ashes for the first time tonight and am just about to explode from
sensory input.
The question: how the heck did Divia get the cameo back? Didn't LC have it
at the end of AMPH?
The real question: Should I really care how she got it? Hell, maybe it's a
copy. Maybe she bought it from the Home Shopping Club.
Aside from killing off two characters I like, I can't complain about this
episode at all. It was one of the most emotionally-charged eps I have ever
seen. I laughed, I cried, I gasped in horror. Several times. But I really
dug Divia's shoes. Sure, she's evil but she's got cool shoes.
Wicked Cousin Tippi
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Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 00:07:30 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Ashes to Ashes
An Unnamed Faction episode! I absolutely loved it!
There's evil -- and then there's evil!
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
N&NPacker
The Unnamed Faction
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Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
