FKSPOILR
Logfile LOG9605 Part 12
May 6-May 7, 1996
File: "FKSPOILR LOG9605" Part 12
TOPICS:
Spoiler: Jane Doe
SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20) (8)
SPOILERS: Francesca & Fallen Idol
LIST RULES: 6th May 1996
SPOILERS: Francesca/Flowers for Nat
SPOILERS: Francesca (6)
FRANCESCA.....(long) (2)
SPOILER: Francesca (3)
SPOILERS: Francesca (location)
Spoiler; Francesca
SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:20:18 -0400
From: Carrie Krumtum <CKrumtum@g.......>
Subject: Spoiler: Jane Doe
Okay, just rewatched this one as I was taping it (managed to borrow another
VCR). I noticed a few things...
1) The victim (Dr. ?) was wearing gloves when she was strung up in the tree
but Tracy managed to get hair and blood from underneath the fingernails.
Seems unlikely to me that the killer would go to all the trouble of putting a
pair of gloves on her after killing her.
2) I loved the quirky smile on Nick's face at the end when Manning was
running from Reese and Nick provided 'containment'.
3) Finally figured out the hair thing. Nick's hair was longer during a large
portion of season two. The hair stylist then combed the sides straight back
into a kind of dovetail. In this season it remains around the sides of his
face and ears. I think I like season two hairstyle better.
Just idle thoughts...
Carrie, Slovenly Knightie
CKrumtum@g.......
It's hard to judge someone when you're blinded by your love for them.
--Mother Teresa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:16:26 -0400
From: Katja Stokley <cstokley@c.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
On Mon, 6 May 1996, Cynthia Hoffman wrote:
> > Tracy is having psychic dreams about being killed by Francesca?
>
> No. She's not.
She's not? I could have sworn a woman entered the room, a throat was cut,
and Tracy awoke with terror, clutching her throat. Maybe I need to go
back and watch it again. What was she dreaming about?
Katja Stokley -*- cstokley@c.......
-*- Enter any 12 digit prime number to continue -*-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 18:26:41 -0700
From: Denise Underwood <ithildin@m.......>
Subject: SPOILERS: Francesca & Fallen Idol
Some thoughts I had while watching Francesca at 2am this morning. I had
set my alarm to make sure my syndie actually started it at the right
time (they have a nasty habit of running movies long) and ended up
staying up to watch. So forgive me if this sounds addled.....
It struck me when Francesca handed Nick the goblet that there is
definately a double standard so to speak. He has no objection to
drinking, it's only when he realizes that it is the violinist's blood
that he becomes angry. So if it were just a peasant or servant that
"donated" the blood, that's ok, but someone who is special, talented,
that's a different matter entirely? It has seemed to me, especially
after Fallen Idol and Nick's buffet basement that some of our vampires
disregard for mortals is an amplification of their feelings from when
they were mortal. Nick was of noble birth and in his time the lower
classes were not much more than posessions of their Lord. Francesca only
reinforced that feeling for me. Her attitude towards the lower classes
seemed typical of the French nobility of the time, being a vampire just
gave her more justification for thinking of mortals as cattle.
I found it quite ironic, after the discussion this last week about Jane
Doe, Tracy's comment in Reese's office about vampires killing as being
true to their nature (and Nick's reaction). Nat's comment in regards to
LC "Because he's evil?" And Francesca's comparison of mortals being to
vampires what cattle are to mortals.
Mr. Bennett did an incredible job of directing, I especially like the
way the flashbacks actually moved the story along. The camera lingering
on Nat's face as Nick explained the essence that is in the blood, and
the lighting in LC's booth. Ms. Horvath's story was great, this is
definately going to be one of my favorite episodes . I just can't
believe it's so near the end.
Thanks for bearing with me on my first post to the spoiler list!
Denise, The Cousinly Ravenette, TEDT & #Foreverknight IRC recruiter
ithildin@m.......
* Ask me about FK chat every evening on IRC!! *
~It's only when you get back to nature you realize everything is out to
get you. Dane Scully ~
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 18:29:44 -0700
From: Cynthia Hoffman <choff@v.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
I said in response to Sandra:
> > > Tracy is having psychic dreams about being killed by Francesca?
> > No. She's not.
Then Katja said:
> She's not? I could have sworn a woman entered the room, a throat was cut,
> and Tracy awoke with terror, clutching her throat. Maybe I need to go
> back and watch it again. What was she dreaming about?
Not a psychic dream. It was pretty well established by the time she had
that dream that she was also experiencing deja vu. And by the end of
the episode, they had established that she was the reincarnation of the
violinist.
In either case, the dream wasn't psychic. It was a memory.
Cynthia
Cynthia Hoffman/choff@v.......
Raven ** IB ** MBDtK
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:33:16 -0400
From: Deborah Menikoff <menikoff@p.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
>---------------------- Information from the mail header-----------------------
>Sender: Forever Knight TV show - Spoiler Topic List
> <FKSPOILR@p.......>
>Poster: Katja Stokley <cstokley@c.......>
>Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>On Mon, 6 May 1996, Cynthia Hoffman wrote:
>> > Tracy is having psychic dreams about being killed by Francesca?
>>
>> No. She's not.
and Katja Stokley replied:
>She's not? I could have sworn a woman entered the room, a throat was cut,
>and Tracy awoke with terror, clutching her throat. Maybe I need to go
>back and watch it again. What was she dreaming about?
No one said she wasn't dreaming. Cynthia just said it wasn't psychic.
Tracy said right off the bat that she found something creepy about the
murder scene. If we are supposed to accept her as the reincarnation of
Faubert, then the dream was "previous life memory" coming to the fore
prompted by seeing the murder scene.
__________ Deborah -- first cousin, once removed ______________
" I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry
knows, and Henry knows we know it. We're a knowledgeable family."
________________ menikoff@p....... _____________________
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:42:32 -0400
From: Listmommy Webgoddess <NatPakJami@a.......>
Subject: LIST RULES: 6th May 1996
I sent this from my pipeline account this morning, but apparently Pipeline is
doing something to their system (commentary deleted due to expletives
unsuitable for the FORKNI-L list) and mail is neither going in nor coming
out. Also, my e-mail address seems to have changed to
immajer@n....... -- please make a note of it.
At any rate, for those of you who are new to the list, or who may have
forgotten, please note the Rules of the FORKNI-L lists, detailed below, as
shown at url: http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/FK/FKRules.html
In addition to the rules posted on that website, there are some others that
bear repeating:
1) NO SPOILERS ON FORKNI-L! That is what FKSPOILR is for.
2) In light of the heavy traffic anticipated on FKSPOILR, it is STRONGLY
SUGGESTED that people limit themselves to three posts per day on that list
for the remainder of the month of May.
3) All posts to all lists are expected to be civil and courteous and free of
any form of attack. Period.
==============================================================
These rules are *NOT* to be considered complete. I've surely forgotten one or
two along the way, so if you think something's a rule, ASK. You may just
violate it and remind me, so I'll have to list it. :)
First of all, the general rules.
#1: BE NICE! If you can't play well with others, these lists aren't the place
to be.
#2: NO FLAMING ON-LIST! If you can't be civil to one another, even in
disagreeing, then this is not the place for you.
#3: BE TOLERANT OF OTHER PEOPLES' LIFESTYLES! There are likely to be many
people on the list whose lifestyles are wildly different from yours. Some may
be gay, or atheist, or black, or any number of things you may not like or
understand. However, the lists are a neutral ground. There shall be no
serious name-calling or lifestyle-bashing around the lists. This all hearkens
back to #1 and #2.
#4: ONLY USE 4 LINES PER POINT OF A PREVIOUS POST YOU WISH TO REFERENCE. This
is standard netiquette. This is so we don't have to read the same post 4
times with only 4 new lines of info.
#5: NO 'ME-TOOS'. A 'me-too' is where someone quotes back an entire post and
then tacks on one or two lines that essentially agrees and says 'me too'.
#6: NO PERSONAL REPLIES TO THE LISTS: Unless it's an emergency (like your
personal mail to so & so bounced), personal replies to the lists are frowned
on. Check and make sure that your reply-to is set correctly to personal
rather than list before you send stuff that's intended for private mail.
#7: NO SOLICITATION: If you make an FK-related product and you want to sell
it, you *may not* post an advert to the lists unless it is a non-profit
affair. We're not here to make money and you shouldn't be either.
#8: NO CON PROMOTIONS OTHER THAN OFFICIAL FLIERS/GUEST LISTS AND POST-CON
REPORTS: Due to a problem with some competing conventions, all con
information from now on *must* be in the form of official fliers or guest
lists posted by an authorized rep of the con committee, or reports of the con
after the fact.
#9: DON'T PANIC: Sometimes our listserver clogs, or the machine crashes, or
mail just isn't delivered on time. If you don't get listmail for some time,
just send a QUERY command to the server (see the commands page for more info)
before posting and asking where the mail has been. This just gets annoying
when 20 or so ppl send querying messages to the list.
FORKNI-L Specific Rules
#1: NO FICTION: Discussion of fiction is okay. Posting of actual fiction is
not.
#2: NO SPOILERS: Discussion of episodes that are re-run or over a month since
the satellite feed, but first-run episodes and speculation regarding upcoming
episodes are for FKSPOILR.
FKFIC-L Specific Rules
#1: NO DISCUSSION: This list is for the posting of fanfiction. Discussion of
same, or anything else is for FORKNI-L or FKSPOILR.
#2: NO ADULT TOPICS WITHOUT USE OF THE ADULT TOPIC: FKFIC-L has an ADULT
topic that requires the subject to start with ADULT: . This then tells the
listserver to filter out this mail to those MAIL subscribers who have the
adult topic turned off (see the commands page for more info). Just so
everyone is clear, the following requires the use of the adult topic: gore
and explicit sex. The following is /not/ considered 'adult' by the
listowners: erotica, slash, and other homosexual themes.
#3: LIMIT POSTINGS TO 250 LINES/POST: Some people's mailers choke at mail
that's longer than 250 lines, so this will alleviate others' mailer problems.
#4: LABEL YOUR FICTION: If your fiction is the 4th part of 16, label that in
the subject. If your fiction has adult topics in it, that should be labelled
in the first few lines of each part of the story. If your fiction has
spoilers for current episodes, label that, too.
FKSPOILR Specific Rules
#1: NO NON-SPOILER DISCUSSION: This list is /specifically/ for the discussion
of spoilers of /current/ episodes and speculation for upcoming episodes.
These rules are subject to change without warning. The punishment for
ignoring the rules is a one-week nomailing for the first offense, one-week
noposting for the second, and permanent unsubscription and noposting for the
third. You will be given warnings each time by Jaye or Jamie Randell.
--
- Jamie M.R. <immajer@p.......> -
- Assistant Listowner, FORKNI-L -
- NatPack, ConvCoS, SKLmom@4....... -
- Illustrated Webgoddess & Keeper of Warm Fuzzies -
List Rules - http://cac.psu.edu/~jap8/FK/FKRules.html
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 18:59:01 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
Sandra wrote:
:If we're to accept that Francesca's soul has survived, then that means
:that the FK vampire keeps the soul he or she was born with (at least I can't
:see any evidence that becoming a vampire gives you a vampire *soul*
:as well as a vampire *body*).
Maybe Francesca was "evil" to begin with. So her soul might be evil, even if
in a human.
Of course, the Hunger drives a vampire to kill at first, but later on they
may just so accept that they are meant to kill that they "murder" even if
their soul can be cleansed.
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 22:07:09 -0400
From: Beth Brown <BKBVA@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca/Flowers for Nat
In a message dated 96-05-06 19:33:27 EDT, you write:
>
>Yes, it's in the Canadian version. No, it's not in the American
>version. Another one of those little edits that actually made a big
>difference to the story.
>
>
Thanks, everyone, for the response. Darn! So, what was her reaction? Can
someone describe the whole scene? Off-list is okay.
Beth
bkbva@a.......
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 22:47:28 -0400
From: Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
Sarah E. Chodrow wrote:
>(2) *Where* was Frank keeping his captives? And how did Nick figure it out?
>He flashed to Francesca's comment about the slaughterhouse--I don't think she
>said abbatoir--and then fooped to Frank's lair somehow.
I wondered about that also. What was the clue that Nick used to find Frank?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 22:55:32 -0400
From: Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......>
Subject: SPOILERS: Francesca
I really loved the scenes between Vachon and Tracy and between Nick and Nat.
(The only time I don't find Tracy annoying is when she's in a scene with
Vachon.)
One thing no one's mentioned. When Nat tell Nick that Francesca wouldn't
think kindly of Nick (or words to that effect) if she WERE reincarnated.
And Nick tells her that Lacroix had said the same thing to him.
She blinks in surprise. I don't think she had ever considered the
possibility of her and Lacroix saying the same thing to Nick. Or that
she and Lacroix would ever agree on anything.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 22:01:13 -0500
From: Sarah Welsh <welshkin@d.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
> Sarah E. Chodrow wrote:
> >(2) *Where* was Frank keeping his captives? And how did Nick figure it out?
> >He flashed to Francesca's comment about the slaughterhouse--I don't think she
> >said abbatoir--and then fooped to Frank's lair somehow.
Wasn't LaCroix' abbatoir-of-choice from Dark Knight, was it? Of course,
how many slaughterhouses does a major metropolitan region need anyway?
Surely there can't be too many of them in Toronto.
Sarah
welshkin@d.......
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 23:49:17 -0400
From: Carol Lynn <Expotech@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
>Maybe that's part of the reason older vampires get so much respect.
>After all, they've REALLY lived more, right?
Here I was thinking it was more like a pyramid scheme. I bring across
two people, and they bring across two people, and they bring across ...
for eternity, and I get a little bit of cosmic energy from each person in
the pyramid, so as the pinnacle I get the most respect and the most power
'cos I can draw on all my children and their children, etc. Which is why
LC is so upset in Fever because "12 of my children died this night".
There goes a part of his power.
BTW, Nick can't be all that bad at bringing people across. In Fever, I
think, LaCroix has him do it to the doctor *in the tavern* in flashback,
17th century, plague-stricken London, with only LC's body blocking the
view to the rest of the patrons. Not exactly the act of someone who has
doubts about Nick's ability to acomplish the task quickly, neatly and
thoroughly. And the making of this particular vampire was LC's idea, so
we can hardly blame poor Nick if the doctor flipped out and started
killing indiscriminitly (that spelling looks wrong). Actually the
doctor's speech sounded a lot more like he'd been listening to LC expound
on the perfect vampire's behavior than on Nick's poorly teaching him what
he needed to know.
Carol
Carol Lynn
Expotech@a.......
--
"I will listen to any hypothesis on
but one condition-- that you show me
a method by which it can be tested."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 23:52:58 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
At 09:16 PM 5/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>e sworn a woman entered the room, a throat was cut,
>and Tracy awoke with terror, clutching her throat. Maybe I need to go back
and watch it again. What was she dreaming about?
>
The sequence starts with the back of Francesca moving away from her victim,
camera lingers on victim, it's Tracey with her throat cut. Suddenly her eyes
open and the shot changes to Tracey sitting up clutching her throat in the
darkness of her bedroom.
She was re-living her death at the hands of Francesca when she was the
musician.
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 23:32:40 -0700
From: Fundenberger <fundy@t.......>
Subject: Re: FRANCESCA.....(long)
I've never done this before, so if I screw up, I promise not to do
it ever again.
After reading this short blurb:
(>Frank: Wow, this guy was super creepy!! What a demonic voice. I kept
>waiting for his head to spin around! When he showed up at the Dr's door
>dressed as Francesca w/ the knife I swear I was under the coffee table! The
>guy was good!) and many like it, I was wondering if anyone else besides
>me recognized the actor who played Frank from Tekwar the television series?
As soon as I saw Frank, I thought a bunch of people might say something
about it. I guess it isn't that important. Bye.
Julie Fundenberger
fundy@t.......
Fundenberger --- A Subscriber at Techline
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 03:00:45 -0400
From: Gehirn Karies <SoulDebris@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
In a message dated 96-05-06 18:35:40 EDT, you write:
>Okay, first off I don't drink tea, herbal or any other kind, second off, I
>don't know how you want to interpert Nat saying LC is evil, I didn't like
>it, because it's not true!! This coming from a Knightie, oh lord I'm in
>trouble now, Dotti put down the stake!! :-)
Good Knightie, Paula, have a cookie. <wcg>
Arletta wrote:
>And Nick tells her that Lacroix had said the same thing to him.
>She blinks in surprise. I don't think she had ever considered the
>possibility of her and Lacroix saying the same thing to Nick. Or that
>she and Lacroix would ever agree on anything.
She was surprised for the second time this ep that Nick acted like he was
buds with LaCroix. Used to be Nick was right there with her.
GK
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 03:00:46 -0400
From: Gehirn Karies <SoulDebris@a.......>
Subject: Re: FRANCESCA.....(long)
In a message dated 96-05-07 02:34:15 EDT, Julie wrote:
>I was wondering if anyone else besides
>me recognized the actor who played Frank from Tekwar the television series?
I have been wracking what is left of my brain trying to figure out where I
have seen this guy before, thank you Julie. That Voice! I think I like him
better with that squarish android head....
Gehirn Karies
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 09:11:03 -0400
From: "Carolyn P. McLelan" <cmclelan@f.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!
We were away at a family wedding and I didn't have my tape set!! I could
curl up and die!
Is there anyone out there who would pretty, pretty please make me a copy,
or loan me a copy of Francesca!
Carolyn P. McLelan
Check out the Save Forever Knight Web site at: (case sensitive)
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
*******************************************************************
The Mother of Invention *had* to be a Single Mother!!
*******************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 05:29:05 -0700
From: LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
Arletta wrote:
>One thing no one's mentioned. When Nat tell Nick that Francesca
>wouldn't think kindly of Nick (or words to that effect) if she WERE
>reincarnated. And Nick tells her that Lacroix had said the same thing
>to him.
Yes, I loved the parallelism between the two bits: Nick/LC and
Nick/Nat. First, each believes Nick is nuts to suggest reincarnation.
Then both Nat and LC ponder the significance of Nick being right, and
what it says about life and unlife, and evil. Finally, each notes that
Francesca is probably not best pleased with Nick.
>She blinks in surprise. I don't think she had ever considered the
>possibility of her and Lacroix saying the same thing to Nick. Or that
>she and Lacroix would ever agree on anything.
Perhaps. Personally, I think they (Nat and LC) have a lot in common,
apart from Nick, in their attitudes toward things, and I was pleased we
got to see that for a change.
Laurie
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 06:33:16 -0700
From: Roxanne Piccen <CHIRMP@a.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Francesca
On Mon, 6 May 1996 Sarah wrote:
>(2) *Where* was Frank keeping his captives? And how did Nick
>figure it out? He flashed to Francesca's comment about the
>slaughterhouse--I don't think she said abbatoir--and then
>fooped to Frank's lair somehow.
I was just about to post this question myself. I remember
turning to my mother and asking if he went to the basement of
the only slaughterhouse in the city and that it was a good thing
there was only one. Then I thought that since Francesca kept
her "meals" in her basement, maybe Frank kept his prisoners in
the basement of his building. Considering the police knew it
was him, however, that would be stupid, so basically I really
don't know either. Anybody?
Frank should have recognized LaCroix's voice as the Nightcrawler,
right? I briefly thought that maybe Frank (dressed as Francesca)
might go to visit him at the Raven. What do you suppose LaCroix
would have said if he'd seen Frank?
Roxanne
RoxanneP@a....... (Home) // CHIRMP@a....... (Work)
*********************************************************
Save Forever Knight! // Save American Gothic! Check out:
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
http://www.best.com/~owls for The Trinity Guardian
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 10:05:16 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILER: Francesca
>On Mon, 6 May 1996 Sarah wrote:
>Then I thought that since Francesca kept
>her "meals" in her basement, maybe Frank kept his prisoners
>in the basement of his building. Considering the police
>knew it was him, however, that would be stupid, so
>basically I really don't know either. Anybody?
>
That's what I figured too, I assumed since she had her "slaughterhouse" in
the basement of her home, Frank would do it as well. Knowing the police
were looking for her/him I don't think would have deterred him from what he
had planned. I don't think the police would think he would hide them right
there in the basement since the bodies had all been in public areas and
there was no sign of moving them from one place to the other.
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 12:57:12 -0300
From: Paula Hurley <dkknight@a.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca
Laurie wrote:
>Perhaps. Personally, I think they (Nat and LC) have a lot in common,
>apart from Nick, in their attitudes toward things, and I was pleased we
>got to see that for a change.
I don't know about anybody else, but I think these are very Valentine-like
attitudes!!!(beg) It's spreading, I figure we'll have new members by the
time this season is over, starting with Laurie of course!! (vwg)
About Francesca the external shot of the place where Frank had taken the
doctor was the same external shot they used to use of Nick's place in Dark
Knight, I don't remember it being used after that.
And to Dotti, thanks for not staking me for standing up for LC, although I
figure in the next war I'm going to get all the dirty jobs to make it up to
Nick.
Gehirn, thanks for the cookies, but I'm not a big cookie eater either!! (beg)
One more thing about Francesca, does anyone know what that Native "thing" on
the back of the doctors door was, I liked it, but I don't know much about
it. I thought it was interesting that it was there, considering NB collects
things like that, and one of Gillians scripts for this season was about
Native Americans...or is that Native Canadians....I don't know, I'm rambling
now, just ignore me!!
Paula
dkknight@a.......
Dark Knightie * Light Cousin * Valentine * Nick&NatPacker * Member of the CSS *
"It's ALWAYS about YOU!" - LaCroix(Can't Run, Can't Hide)
"If this is the cure, give me the disease!" - LaCroix(The Fix)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 12:19:01 -0400
From: Allison Percy <percy91@w.......>
Subject: SPOILERS: Francesca (location)
Others who have been in Toronto probably noticed this...
Many of the flashback & other scenes from "Francesca" appear to have been
filmed at the Casa Loma, a castle-like mansion in Toronto that is a
popular site for filming in that city. Parts of FK's "Father Figure" and
maybe some other eps were also filmed at this place.
Note especially the telephone nook on the wall in Frank/Francesca's
bedroom. Those nooks are all over the place at the Casa Loma.
I'm pretty sure that the restaurant where the first "kiss-print" victim was
found was actually the Conservatory at the Casa Loma. (The marble floor
is a giveaway!)
Anyone going to Toronto should consider a visit to this place, if only to
enjoy the gorgeous architecture and wonderful views of the city from the
towers. For a picture of the Casa Loma Castle (thanks to Siona's digital
camera!!) you can go to: http://members.aol.com/fkphoto2/casaloma.html
The Casa Loma castle is not to be confused with the Casa Loma Inn, a bed &
breakfast place popular with Shrewtherers! <g>
Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion...
* Allison Percy percy91@w....... *
* Shrewthering info: http://assets.wharton.upenn.edu/~percy91/shrew.html *
* "I can taste the sands of Jerusalem in his veins..." Frank/Francesca *
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 12:15:04 -0500
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
At 07:39 PM 5/6/96 -0300, Paula Hurley wrote:
>This like any other show has its protagnist and its antagonist, Nick being
>the "good" guy and LC being the "bad" guy, but there is no such thing that
>can be so easily defined ... They are not even true flip sides of the coin
>anymore, because Nick has been backsliding so much ...
I don't think the show ever did set up Nick and LaCroix as flip sides of
the same coin, or Nick as the "good guy" against LC as the "bad guy".
Without starting up the "Is LaCroix evil?" argument again (hopefully), I
think it is LaCroix and Natalie who are in opposition to each other.
LaCroix is trying to pull Nick in one direction; Natalie is trying to pull
him in the other direction. Nick listens to both of them, but is struggling
to figure out what he really thinks himself.
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
N&NPacker
The Unnamed Faction
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 13:43:13 -0400
From: Dotti Rhodes <dottir@w.......>
Subject: Re: SPOILERS: Francesca (ep 20)
At 12:15 PM 5/7/96 -0500, you wrote:
>LaCroix is trying to pull Nick in one direction; Natalie is trying to pull
him in the other direction. Nick listens to both of them, but is struggling
>to figure out what he really thinks himself.
>
This is what I really think - and particularly in this season. Since
LaCroix has pretty much calmed down and does not interfere with Nick's life
as it is, he has become his mentor/father/friend more now than before and
the one person other than Janette who accepts him/wants him as he is. He's
even stopped harping on his "ridiculous quest" as if content to led him ride
out whatever happens. Nat on the otherhand, is his guide to the "light" and
humanity, but does she care for him unconditionally? I'm not sure. She sure
is quick to jump down his throat when he back slides a bit, and I don't
think until "Francesca" she never even really tried to understand what it
was like for him. I think that's why he fell so hard so fast for Emily
Weiss too. But she believes in his humanity, in his capacity to be good, to
love and be loved, so there's his pull. It's not black and white, good vs.
evil anymore, coz both sides have their problems.
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
dottir@w.......
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 14:46:14 EDT
From: BRIAN WHELTON <103045.2473@c.......>
Subject: Spoiler; Francesca
Overall a great episode
Great scenes in the morgue between Nick and Nat. I agree that there was
a great deal of less than scientific interest on Nats part when
Nick was talking about the blood.
One point that I don't think that anyone has brought up.If Nick and
Francesca were so intimate that they knew eachothers souls, why the
big surprise the next morning when they had such divergent veiws on
killing? Nicks concern about what he might be expected to eat was
written all over his face from the moment she said "I was about to
dine". I guess thats what one night stands are all about.
I also think that they missed a great opportunity to let Tracy find
out about Nick. Makes me wonder/worry what they might be keeping it for.
Did anyone else get the feeling they were laying out foundation for
Last Knight?
Kathy W
Knightie-in-Training
If I have to go back on anti-anxiety medication before this is over
I'm going to mbe really pissed.
103045,2473@c.......
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 12:59:35 -0700
From: AKR <r@w.......>
Subject: SPOILER: Francesca, New Points
Hey, everybody! I've finally caught up on all of your Francesca posts,
and, wonder of wonders, I think a few little points are yet untouched.
:) I'll try to list all those I've noticed here.
First, I noticed that the violin theme returned, faintly, as Nick took his
first sip of Faubert's blood. I thought that was an extremely nice touch,
and, in a way, it hearkens back to the magical music we were deprived of in
QoH.
Second, another round of applause for Gillian Horvath. Specifically, I'd
like to wallow in appreciation of her feel for internal continuity. Nobody
does it better. It's all in the minor characters and passing plot points.
Take Gordon Fuller, the reporter. (HL people: remind you of first-season's
Ricki?) This man is a little part of Tracy's life, outside the episodes we've
been given. That casual reference to having dated him *once* is worth a
hundred shots of Tracy at her desk in the precinct. Even better, he quips,
"'Cause Reese and Captain Jacobson get along so well?" That line, that
throw-away line, just expanded the FK universe as much as all the musing on
vampire empathy through blood. We not only know the name of the 86th's
captain, we know that Reese doesn't like him/her!
Similarly, when Reese sends the counselor to a sketch artist, he says,
"Vetter, get her set up with Marcot." Once again, we've been given a name, a
character, a touch of realism in the feeling that this world exists beyond
the plot demands of each episode and the actors in the opening credits. It
is just so marvelous. If only Sydney could have been mentioned, too... <g>
Next point, it struck me that Nick went for Francesca's wrist when she woke
him up. This isn't something we've seen very often, is it? I mean, I know
we've generally accepted that opening the wrist is the preferred conduit for
the master vampire's blood when bringing someone across, and it was used in
both levels of NiQ, when dealing with severe injuries, but I can't recall any
other instances of non-neck feeding. (I'm actually writing a story in which
I want Nick to go for someone's wrist, but until I saw Francesca, it seemed
so improbable that it kept giving me the giggles... )
And I would like to applaud the flow of the flashbacks in this episode, as
well. If I may refer to HL again, their transitions to their flashbacks have
gotten smoother and more relevant over the years, while FK's have often
remained awkward and arbitrary. The very fact that we can all say,
"Flashback! Flashback!" and be *right* every time the camera holds on Nick's
face in a certain way is proof that we've been in a bit of a rut. But in
Francesca, I was impressed by the integration of the flashbacks, especially
when Nick bursts through the door in Frank's room, and immediately recalls
bursting through the door into Francesca's.
As to the possession/reincarnation question, while I have not yet decided
about Tracy, I believe that it is more likely that Frank was possessed by
Francesca than being her reincarnate. This stems, first, from the fact that
possession is already FK canon, while reincarnation is new, and secondly from
the fact that the therapist said that these strange feelings had been
bothering Frank for only "three months" -- that this was all quite alien to
him, and to how he perceived, and wished to perceive, himself. Most
importantly, though, I am basing my view on the statement, "Frank does not
decide. I decide." At that moment, Frank, a previously normal man, with
certainly every right to be in charge of his own psyche, is completely
dominated by Francesca. They are not one, in two aspects. They are two, and
she is suppressing him.
Finally, among the things I haven't yet seen addressed, is a line from
Nick's astoundingly self-revelatory speech in the morgue. "To take them
inside you," he said, and Nat's head bobbed involuntarily, as if she'd
lost her balance. "And know every secret. To let them know yours."
*To let them know yours.*
The rest of the speech applies to any sort of vampire feeding, but this line
has far-reaching ramifications which are very different depending whether it
refers to the mutual feeding of vampire sex, or to vampiric feeding on a
mortal. The rest of the speech seems to refer to vampiric feeding on
mortals, and this line occurs at the very end. On the one hand, this could
be a revelation that there is a psychic feedback from the vampire to his or
her victim. On the other, if it refers to a vampiric relationship, the
remark is a kind of *slip* as Nick reaches the most intense part of his
revelation. This is a part of the appeal of sentient blood. Mr.
Secrecy-is-my-Middle-Name, who didn't tell Nat that there were other vampires
until LC forced the issue, wants that understanding. And he seems to feel
that he cannot get it from a mortal, through conversation and experience and
other mortal ways of knowing. Denied human relationships through his fear
for those he loves, denied vampiric relationships through his fear for his
own soul... poor, lonely Nick.
Oh, does anyone want me to hypothesize on how this all ties in with HF? <g>
**** Amy, Lady of the Knight (AKR) r@w....... ****
"For how do I hold thee but by thy granting?" --W.S. Sonnet 87
=========================================================================
Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
