Home Page How I Found Forever Knight Forkni-L Archives Main Page Forkni-L Earlier Years
My Forever Knight Fanfiction Links E-Mail Me

FORKNI-L

Digest - 25 May 2014 to 26 May 2014 (#2014-75)

Mon, 26 May 2014

There are 3 messages totaling 299 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki (3)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 25 May 2014 17:22:26 -0400
From:    Stephanie Kellerman <stephke@i.......>
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki

I took the stories off the "FTP" site also as requested, but did look to
see if there was a date on them. There wasn't.  Also, you can't go by
the edited date as every time I moved it to a different server it
changed the date.  I looked up the file on archive.org and the oldest it
shows one of the stories is May 1998, but that is the date that
archive.org started scanning fkfanfic.com not when the story was posted.

I started archiving the "FTP" site in 1999, and I don't know whether I
still have the original cd or not to see if I can find dates.  (I know I
have it as I am a pack rat and don't throw away anything, but finding it
is something else).

Steph

On 5/25/2014 4:23 PM, Greer Watson wrote:
> As Steph (briefly home in mid-vacation) is now taking Dearjunie's stories
> out of the archive, *that* problem has been dealt with.
>
> I am, however, a bit curious.  Several people have commented, here or in
> personal e-mails, that Mel was always very scrupulous about getting
> permission before posting stories.  Indeed, usually stories have a
> "permission to archive" up in the notes at the top of the page.  They also
> usually come with a date--for, of course, Mel would have the date on the
> FKFIC-L post.
>
> These stories of Dearjunie's have neither a "permission to archive" nor a
> date on them.  She has explained this:  they were written in 1994 or 1995,
> i.e. before Mel started her archive.  (I had wondered as much since one
> story has a reference to Lacroix getting a Halloween costume of Barney, the
> purple dinosaur from that old children's show.  I don't know whether Barney
> was a running joke on list at one point; but I do know that he was
> referenced in one of the pranks in War One, which was January 1994.  That
> had already made me wonder if the story also dated to 1994.)
>
> If the stories are *that* old, then they must have been in the original FTP
> site material, which Mel used as the foundation for her archive (to which
> she then added newer stories as they got posted in the late '90s).
>
> This, of course, makes me wonder about the history of the FTP archive.
>
> The information in the wiki article on it, which is derived from an e-mail
> or two that people have sent me, says that it was "originally hosted by
> Pennsylvania State University at ftp.cac.psu.edu
> (ftp://ftp.cac.psu.edu/pub/people/lms5/). Its archivist was Cynthia Hoffman.
> The site was deleted without warning; but a copy had been preserved by
> Mike."
>
> However, I do not know where the stories for this original FTP site first
> came from--apart, that is, from being posted on FKFIC-L.
>
> I do know from old FAQs that, at one time, one could access archived back
> posts to FORKNI-L (say, if one had been set no-post during vacation).  This
> eventually ended when Penn State realized that too much server space was
> being taken up by their archiving old list messages.  I'm wondering whether,
> at one point, FKFIC-L was also auto-archived in this way; and if *that* was
> the very first "story archive" (and possibly the basis for the first, core
> collection on the FTP site).
>
> You see, Dearjunie remembers posting her stories to FKFIC-L; but, as far as
> I can interpret her latest message to me, she does not seem to have realized
> that her stories had ever been archived anywhere.
>
>
> Greer
>
> gwatson2@r.......
> http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/
>
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 26 May 2014 14:57:28 -0400
From:    L McDavid <mclisa1014@g.......>
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki

>
>
> >
> > This, of course, makes me wonder about the history of the FTP archive.
> >
> > The information in the wiki article on it, which is derived from an e-mail
> > or two that people have sent me, says that it was "originally hosted by
> > Pennsylvania State University at ftp.cac.psu.edu
> > (ftp://ftp.cac.psu.edu/pub/people/lms5/). Its archivist was Cynthia Hoffman.
> > The site was deleted without warning; but a copy had been preserved by
> > Mike."
>

This is correct. Cynthia was also always very careful not to archive
anything on the ftp site which didn't have permission.

> >
> > However, I do not know where the stories for this original FTP site first
> > came from--apart, that is, from being posted on FKFIC-L.
>

My memory is that stories could be on the original ftp site without having
been on Fkfic-l. I don't remember details since I never posted one which
wasn't simply sent to Fkfic-l.


> >
> > I do know from old FAQs that, at one time, one could access archived back
> > posts to FORKNI-L (say, if one had been set no-post during vacation).  This
> > eventually ended when Penn State realized that too much server space was
> > being taken up by their archiving old list messages.  I'm wondering whether,
> > at one point, FKFIC-L was also auto-archived in this way; and if *that* was
> > the very first "story archive" (and possibly the basis for the first, core
> > collection on the FTP site).
>

Yes, Fkfic-l was autoarchived. That used to be a standard feature of any
list @psu.  We gave up ours for both FK lists as a condition of continuing
to be hosted there, back when we were  _very_  high traffic. IIRC, that was
why we needed independent archiving at all.

>
> > You see, Dearjunie remembers posting her stories to FKFIC-L; but, as far as
> > I can interpret her latest message to me, she does not seem to have realized
> > that her stories had ever been archived anywhere.
>

I don't know how the got to Steph's site, but she should have known
anything that went to Fkfic-l back when that list still had an archive
would have been in that archive.  I do recall that the list hashed out
arrangements for volunteer archiving at the time.  She may well have just
forgotten after 20 yrs.

Note: I've just remembered that at some point there was an unauthorized
publication by an outsider whose name I don't recall, of one of the FK fic
archives on CD. I was one of the authors who was thus published, but there
really wasn't anything to be done, short of major legal action.

The above still wouldn't explain how her how stories got on Steph's site,
though.  I wonder if she's simply forgotten giving permission? She could
have done so by an offlist email to Cynthia, who was still archivist at the
time.

McLisa (Lisa McDavid)
"That will be trouble."
listowner, Forkni-l & Fkfic-l
mclisa1014@g.......

> >
> >
> > Greer
> >
> > gwatson2@r.......
> > http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/
> >
> >
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 26 May 2014 15:48:29 -0400
From:    Stephanie Kellerman <stequina@i.......>
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki

Mike may have been the one, but someone sent me a cd of the original
"ftp" site.  I then hosted it as a real "ftp" site.
ie/./ftp.fkvoyage.com  (aka ftp://ftp.win.net/fkvoyage/fkfanfic)
starting in 1999. I then decided to move it to the web site
www.fkvoyage.com .  At that time I actually had a couple people have me
take their stories off because I moved it to the web.  They didn't want
them to be found. They apparently did not know you can still do a search
and find stuff on public ftp sites.

When I took it over, it was posted on several occasions by Lisa, myself
and others that the only stories that would be archived were stories
where the authors gave their permission.  Most of the stories in the
original archive had their headers taken off so dates were taken off and
sometimes the permssions if it was given in the subject line. Sometimes
any info above the title of the story was removed and that is where a
lot of people put their permission.  I didn't delete anything when I
started archiving the stories posted after the original archive so
everything is there.


Steph


On 5/26/2014 2:57 PM, L McDavid wrote:
>>
>>> This, of course, makes me wonder about the history of the FTP archive.
>>>
>>> The information in the wiki article on it, which is derived from an e-mail
>>> or two that people have sent me, says that it was "originally hosted by
>>> Pennsylvania State University at ftp.cac.psu.edu
>>> (ftp://ftp.cac.psu.edu/pub/people/lms5/). Its archivist was Cynthia Hoffman.
>>> The site was deleted without warning; but a copy had been preserved by
>>> Mike."
> This is correct. Cynthia was also always very careful not to archive
> anything on the ftp site which didn't have permission.
>
>>> However, I do not know where the stories for this original FTP site first
>>> came from--apart, that is, from being posted on FKFIC-L.
> My memory is that stories could be on the original ftp site without having
> been on Fkfic-l. I don't remember details since I never posted one which
> wasn't simply sent to Fkfic-l.
>
>
>>> I do know from old FAQs that, at one time, one could access archived back
>>> posts to FORKNI-L (say, if one had been set no-post during vacation).  This
>>> eventually ended when Penn State realized that too much server space was
>>> being taken up by their archiving old list messages.  I'm wondering whether,
>>> at one point, FKFIC-L was also auto-archived in this way; and if *that* was
>>> the very first "story archive" (and possibly the basis for the first, core
>>> collection on the FTP site).
> Yes, Fkfic-l was autoarchived. That used to be a standard feature of any
> list @psu.  We gave up ours for both FK lists as a condition of continuing
> to be hosted there, back when we were  _very_  high traffic. IIRC, that was
> why we needed independent archiving at all.
>
>>> You see, Dearjunie remembers posting her stories to FKFIC-L; but, as far as
>>> I can interpret her latest message to me, she does not seem to have realized
>>> that her stories had ever been archived anywhere.
> I don't know how the got to Steph's site, but she should have known
> anything that went to Fkfic-l back when that list still had an archive
> would have been in that archive.  I do recall that the list hashed out
> arrangements for volunteer archiving at the time.  She may well have just
> forgotten after 20 yrs.
>
> Note: I've just remembered that at some point there was an unauthorized
> publication by an outsider whose name I don't recall, of one of the FK fic
> archives on CD. I was one of the authors who was thus published, but there
> really wasn't anything to be done, short of major legal action.
>
> The above still wouldn't explain how her how stories got on Steph's site,
> though.  I wonder if she's simply forgotten giving permission? She could
> have done so by an offlist email to Cynthia, who was still archivist at the
> time.
>
> McLisa (Lisa McDavid)
> "That will be trouble."
> listowner, Forkni-l & Fkfic-l
> mclisa1014@g.......
>
>>>
>>> Greer
>>>
>>> gwatson2@r.......
>>> http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/
>>>
>>>
>>>

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 25 May 2014 to 26 May 2014 (#2014-75)
**************************************************************

Previous digest
Previous
This month's list
This month's list
Next digest
Next




Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/