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Digest - 24 May 2014 to 25 May 2014 (#2014-74)

Sun, 25 May 2014

There are 5 messages totaling 336 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki  may over react but I am
    not happy
  2. Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki (3)
  3. unsubscribe

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Date:    Sat, 24 May 2014 17:33:06 -0400
From:    Stephanie Kellerman <stequina@i.......>
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki  may over react but I am not happy

OK!!! I am responding to this email and I have not read any following
email and I just walked in the door from a trip so here goes.

This ******!! has NEVER!!!!!!! contacted me about ANYTHING about the
copy of www.fanfic.com I have on the foreverknight.org site!!!!!  As far
as I am concerned she is lying.  I don't know what address she
supposedly used but the only ones I responds to is this one and my
stephke@i....... account.  And she can't say she used the account on
the foreverknight.org site as there is none.

Also Mel only posted stories where she was given permission and I only
put stories on the "FTP" site when given permission. In fact it was
stated on more than one occasion that if a person wanted to add their
stories they explicitly had to give permission.

Who is this person@!!  And I resent anyone saying that I ignored any
request.  It may take a few days, maybe some weeks as I have had a lot
of going on in my life that past couple years BUT I DO RESPOND!! In fact
last week I was contacted by one person who requested I take her name
down on a page from that site and I did as much. Also, by request I took
a whole folder down off of the "FTP" site by request of one person.

Steamingly,

Steph


On 5/23/2014 8:43 PM, Greer Watson wrote:
> Thank you to both Stephanie Babbitt and McLisa for writing to me about
> this.
>
> There is now an update.  Someone called "Dearjunie" (presumably the
> previously anonymous editor, who has now picked out a pseud) first
> left a comment on Kodia's talk page, and then deleted it and wrote a
> rather longer comment on my own talk page.
>
> This is the text of the comment she left on my talk page:
>
> **
>
> ...Hi Greer, if you check your email, you will see the links for the
> specific "copyrighted material" that was referred to in the edit I
> made recently regarding the "mysterious" shutdown of Ms. Moser's
> site.  In 2012~2013 I attempted to contact Mel Moser several times
> requesting takedown of the fiction and was ignored. Ms. Moser was
> given several chances and ample time to comply with the request.
> Finally I presented the info to Ms. Moser's ISP as she was in
> violation of their terms of service agreement for displaying
> copyrighted work that she did not have permission for (including the
> author's personal info) and the site was subsequently taken down.
> If Ms. Moser had chosen to remove the fics and their links the
> complaint would have been withdrawn and her site would have been put
> back up.  She chose, however, according to her email to me after she
> finally got in touch with me, to let the site lapse without making the
> attempt to comply as she claimed she was no longer interested in
> running it any longer, and she assured me in that same email that the
> works in question would not be distributed to other sites.  After
> that, however, she distributed the contents of her former website to
> Stephanie Kellerman's website - including the works that had gotten
> Ms. Moser's site shut down - and now I have sent a polite request to
> Ms. Kellerman requesting takedown of those fics.  Ms. Kellerman is
> being given ample time and chances to comply, before the matter will
> then be brought to the attention of Ms. Kellerman's ISP, which will no
> doubt result in a site takedown until she has complied. I have also
> sent emails to yourself and Ms. Moser as well as Ms. Kellerman, hoping
> desperately that we can avoid having the ISP take down another site
> all because a few fics and links weren't removed.
>
> I have tried so very hard to be nice about this and give involved
> parties ample time, ample notice and ample chances to do the right
> thing, before being forced to resort to contacting ISP's for takedowns.
>
> It would be heartbreaking if such a valuable resources as Ms.
> Kellerman's site were also to be taken down because of such an easily
> fixable matter.
>
> Dearjunie.
>
> **
>
> Well, I've checked my e-mail, as requested.  So far, I've not got
> anything that I can identify as a message from Dearjunie.  (I can't
> search in case it got trapped by a filter of some sort, since I don't
> know what address she's used.)
>
> This is not a pseudonym with which I am familiar.  Nor do I know her
> real name, if that's what she wrote under.  Nor do I know the stories
> she's referring to.
>
> I *do* know that I find her threats a bit irritating.
>
>
>
> Greer
>
> gwatson2@r.......
>
> http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 24 May 2014 20:19:16 -0500
From:    MsLibrarianXYZX <mslibrarianxyzx@h.......>
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki

Wow! Hope everything comes to an easy conclusion! I've just recently
been back playing on the wiki site, I love it! Everyone does a really
great job with the updates. Makes me want to contribute.
Aimee

On May 22, 2014 at 11:11 PM, "Greer Watson"  wrote:I wonder if anyone
on list can shed light on an edit that was just made
anonymously to the FK Wiki.  Someone has amended the article about
Stephanie Kellerman's website, www.foreverknight.org, to add the following:

"In 2013, when the account for www.fkfanfic.com was suspended by its ISP for
violating its terms of service agreement stemming from failure to remove
copyrighted works it did not have permission to display, and the main FK
archive went offline, Stephanie once again uploaded her mirror site,
including the works that should have been removed from www.fkfanfic.com and
the FTP sites."

At the time the main archive disappeared last year, I tried to contact Mel
Moser; but she never got back to me.  Does anyone know what "copyrighted
works" are being referred to here?  Some of the fan fiction?

Whoever made the edit did so anonymously, and did not provide a footnote or
any supporting evidence.  This perturbs me, since it bears on the issue of
whether the information is (or isn't) true, which in turn bears on the
question of whether we keep the edit or reverse it to the earlier text of
the article.
Greer

gwatson2@r.......
http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/


------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 25 May 2014 09:15:43 -0400
From:    Stephanie Kellerman <stephke@i.......>
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki

The author did finally contact me but I was out of town.  She actually
threatened to take my site down if I didn't remove the stories by June
1st.  I am taking them down and hope we will never hear from her again.
I am lucky as I may not have been here. I came back from my trip early
and I am actually leaving again.  Can we take those comments off the
wiki?  Or do I let everyone know who this **** is and show what an
ingrate she is?

Steph


On 5/24/2014 9:19 PM, MsLibrarianXYZX wrote:
> Wow! Hope everything comes to an easy conclusion! I've just recently
> been back playing on the wiki site, I love it! Everyone does a really
> great job with the updates. Makes me want to contribute.
> Aimee
>
> On May 22, 2014 at 11:11 PM, "Greer Watson"  wrote:I wonder if anyone
> on list can shed light on an edit that was just made
> anonymously to the FK Wiki.  Someone has amended the article about
> Stephanie Kellerman's website, www.foreverknight.org, to add the following:
>
> "In 2013, when the account for www.fkfanfic.com was suspended by its ISP for
> violating its terms of service agreement stemming from failure to remove
> copyrighted works it did not have permission to display, and the main FK
> archive went offline, Stephanie once again uploaded her mirror site,
> including the works that should have been removed from www.fkfanfic.com and
> the FTP sites."
>
> At the time the main archive disappeared last year, I tried to contact Mel
> Moser; but she never got back to me.  Does anyone know what "copyrighted
> works" are being referred to here?  Some of the fan fiction?
>
> Whoever made the edit did so anonymously, and did not provide a footnote or
> any supporting evidence.  This perturbs me, since it bears on the issue of
> whether the information is (or isn't) true, which in turn bears on the
> question of whether we keep the edit or reverse it to the earlier text of
> the article.
> Greer
>
> gwatson2@r.......
> http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 25 May 2014 16:58:13 -0300
From:    Rhonda MacKenzie <scarlett@a.......>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe

oops sorry!


On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Rhonda MacKenzie <scarlett@a.......>wrote:

> signoff forkni-l
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 25 May 2014 16:23:02 -0400
From:    Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......>
Subject: Re: Recent edit to one of the articles on the FK Wiki

As Steph (briefly home in mid-vacation) is now taking Dearjunie's stories
out of the archive, *that* problem has been dealt with.

I am, however, a bit curious.  Several people have commented, here or in
personal e-mails, that Mel was always very scrupulous about getting
permission before posting stories.  Indeed, usually stories have a
"permission to archive" up in the notes at the top of the page.  They also
usually come with a date--for, of course, Mel would have the date on the
FKFIC-L post.

These stories of Dearjunie's have neither a "permission to archive" nor a
date on them.  She has explained this:  they were written in 1994 or 1995,
i.e. before Mel started her archive.  (I had wondered as much since one
story has a reference to Lacroix getting a Halloween costume of Barney, the
purple dinosaur from that old children's show.  I don't know whether Barney
was a running joke on list at one point; but I do know that he was
referenced in one of the pranks in War One, which was January 1994.  That
had already made me wonder if the story also dated to 1994.)

If the stories are *that* old, then they must have been in the original FTP
site material, which Mel used as the foundation for her archive (to which
she then added newer stories as they got posted in the late '90s).

This, of course, makes me wonder about the history of the FTP archive.

The information in the wiki article on it, which is derived from an e-mail
or two that people have sent me, says that it was "originally hosted by
Pennsylvania State University at ftp.cac.psu.edu
(ftp://ftp.cac.psu.edu/pub/people/lms5/). Its archivist was Cynthia Hoffman.
The site was deleted without warning; but a copy had been preserved by
Mike."

However, I do not know where the stories for this original FTP site first
came from--apart, that is, from being posted on FKFIC-L.

I do know from old FAQs that, at one time, one could access archived back
posts to FORKNI-L (say, if one had been set no-post during vacation).  This
eventually ended when Penn State realized that too much server space was
being taken up by their archiving old list messages.  I'm wondering whether,
at one point, FKFIC-L was also auto-archived in this way; and if *that* was
the very first "story archive" (and possibly the basis for the first, core
collection on the FTP site).

You see, Dearjunie remembers posting her stories to FKFIC-L; but, as far as
I can interpret her latest message to me, she does not seem to have realized
that her stories had ever been archived anywhere.


Greer

gwatson2@r.......
http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/


------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 24 May 2014 to 25 May 2014 (#2014-74)
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