There are 18 messages totaling 735 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? (14) 2. Old warriors never die, they just fade away 3. Fwd for Otto Matic, re Reboot of FK 4. Reboot as next gen (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:01:58 -0700 From: "Libby A. Smith" <libratsie@s.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? Outside the box? Little Rock, Arkansas! ;-) We have our grit and our glammer, a large pool of talented and experienced actors for the locals, and some great buildings downtown that'd make good sets. <g> --Libs I don't that that Seattle is gritty enough or even big enough to provide the right kind of setting. We've all seen New York over and over. Let's think outside the box here! Nancy Kaminski ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:23:44 -0500 From: "Ms. Librarian" <mslibrarianxyzx@h.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? Libby -- Love your enthusiasm! Tim -- Love your plot ideas and special guest Nigel Bennett Nancy -- Totally like the idea of setting it in Paris. But if they want really gritty set in the US, how about Detroit??? A city partially in ruins trying to rebuild???? Maybe a little 'other' supernatural stuff, but focusing on the Vampire aspect. Love these ideas!!Aimee On March 11, 2014 at 3:08 PM, "Ms. Librarian" wrote:I ran across this blog post on Yahoo dated 11/05/13. I was wondering if anyone else had seen it. http://voices.yahoo.com/instead-charmed-lets-reboot-forever-knight-12388271.html?cat=2 The blogger talks about rebooting FK instead of Charmed. He also ads his ideas on how to do it? What do you guys think? Not sure how I would feel about a reboot. In a way I would love to see it again, but sad knowing our beloved actors probably wouldn't be in it. Being from the US I would still want it set in Toronto. To me the city was a character. What would you change/keep the same?? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:28:30 -0400 From: "brutledge@c......." <brutledge@c.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? I've had thoughts and dreams about a TNG reboot of FK. At the core of my thoughts is Jen Schanke grown up, now a homicide detective like her dad. The main reboot difference in structure I would go for is the importance of story arcs. For the most part, FK episodes were stand alone. There were no overall story lines driving each season, and I would have liked to have seen that. The hardest thing in a reboot or a TNG version of FK is the actors. It's difficult to imagine someone else playing Nick, LC, Nat, Schanke, Jeanette, or Vachon in a pure reboot. And, as much as we've repeated 'No one dies. No one ever dies," I can't envision all these characters appearing, even in a small way, in a TNG scenario. Morality driven vampire cops aren't exactly as transposable as loading a starship with another crew. Still, I feel pretty strongly that any FK without Nick Knight, and to a large extent, without Ger playing Nick, misses the point of being called 'Forever Knight.' When I have those daydreams of winning the lottery and how I'd revive FK, it has Ger playing a now-human Nick, still torn about the people he lost in the process (Nat, Tracy, LC) of regaining his humanity, and circumstances pulling him back into the supernatural world he left behind. <waves> Bonnie Rutledge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:38:43 -0400 From: "brutledge@c......." <brutledge@c.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? > On Mar 11, 2014, at 5:23 PM, "Ms. Librarian" <mslibrarianxyzx@h.......> wrote: > But if they want really gritty set in the US, how about Detroit??? Ha! Detroit was the first place my brain went at the mention of 'gritty' too! <waves> Bonnie Rutledge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:43:48 -0500 From: "Ms. Librarian" <mslibrarianxyzx@h.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? Bonnie -- When you win the lottery & reboot FK, please hire me as script writer/researcher ;) J.Schanke as a cop, I keep seeing the scene where Scahanke (False Witness??) talks about how he can't see their kids following in their foot steps. OK I've had this fanfic floating in my head for ages, but maybe they could actually bring John Kapelos & Natsuko Ohama back. They didn't die they were just in 'Witness Protection'. Would love to see GWD as Nick & mortal, flashing back. Aimee On March 11, 2014 at 4:29 PM, "brutledge@c......." wrote:I've had thoughts and dreams about a TNG reboot of FK. At the core of my thoughts is Jen Schanke grown up, now a homicide detective like her dad. The main reboot difference in structure I would go for is the importance of story arcs. For the most part, FK episodes were stand alone. There were no overall story lines driving each season, and I would have liked to have seen that. The hardest thing in a reboot or a TNG version of FK is the actors. It's difficult to imagine someone else playing Nick, LC, Nat, Schanke, Jeanette, or Vachon in a pure reboot. And, as much as we've repeated 'No one dies. No one ever dies," I can't envision all these characters appearing, even in a small way, in a TNG scenario. Morality driven vampire cops aren't exactly as transposable as loading a starship with another crew. Still, I feel pretty strongly that any FK without Nick Knight, and to a large extent, without Ger playing Nick, misses the point of being called 'Forever Knight.' When I have those daydreams of winning the lottery and how I'd revive FK, it has Ger playing a now-human Nick, still torn about the people he lost in the process (Nat, Tracy, LC) of regaining his humanity, and circumstances pulling him back into the supernatural world he left behind. Bonnie Rutledge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:38:45 -0700 From: Andrew Caruthers <slinter@j.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? I would not fool with the classics. All too often these days, a re-boot meains that it's going to be "re-imagined", and that could be anything. Let's leave the classics alone. On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:07:36 -0500 "Ms. Librarian" <mslibrarianxyzx@h.......> writes: > I ran across this blog post on Yahoo dated 11/05/13. I was wondering > if anyone else had seen it. > http://voices.yahoo.com/instead-charmed-lets-reboot-forever-knight-123882 71.html?cat=2 > The blogger talks about rebooting FK instead of Charmed. He also > ads > his ideas on how to do it? What do you guys think? > Not sure how I would feel about a reboot. In a way I would love to > see > it again, but sad knowing our beloved actors probably wouldn't be > in > it. Being from the US I would still want it set in Toronto. To me > the > city was a character. > What would you change/keep the same?? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:05:35 -0400 From: Karen Gunther <kaag@a.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? The way things are being rebooted, revised and recasted both in movies and on tv, I can see this working and being successful. Vampires and other supernatural beings are "in". I would rather see it just vampires though. Please, no Buffy, and no True Blood mixing of mythological creatures. As far as a "gritty" location, why not Detroit? You want gritty? That's the motor city... Add in some Mafia references (as in... where's Jimmy?) and you have some built in plots Plus, it's. close enough to Toronto that it could be a logical progression of the Community to move. Berlin would be fun but I don't see a US-produced show going to Europe. Having a location sort of close would give a good explanation for the change in Nick's appearance. I know the show repeated the plot of the movie but I think it would be fun to make this a continuing saga (minus the bad dream of Last Knight). Continue the premise with new characters... other than LaCroix popping in to torment Nick. Karen Gunther ---- Original Message ----- From: "Ms. Librarian" <mslibrarianxyzx@h.......> I ran across this blog post on Yahoo dated 11/05/13. I was wondering if anyone else had seen it. http://voices.yahoo.com/instead-charmed-lets-reboot-forever-knight-12388271.html?cat=2 The blogger talks about rebooting FK instead of Charmed. He also ads his ideas on how to do it? What do you guys think? ======================= I have no problems rebooting the series, and of course it requires a complete recasting since time has moved on for us mortals. That said, I do not care for the blogger's suggestion to add in werewolves, demons, etc. (is this a Buffy reboot?). I would also prefer it to be placed outside the US---if not Toronto, then some other very large city. It would be cool to set it in Paris, with so many evocative locations and opportunities for flashbacks with good scenery. (And think of the opportunities for really great clothes---I've been to Paris, and the average Parisian seems to be so much better dressed than the average American. Berlin is another great location. I don't that that Seattle is gritty enough or even big enough to provide the right kind of setting. We've all seen New York over and over. Let's think outside the box here! Nancy Kaminski ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 22:36:13 -0500 From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@p.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? On 3/11/2014 4:28 PM, brutledge@c....... wrote: > Still, I feel pretty strongly that any FK without Nick Knight, and to a large > extent, without Ger playing Nick, misses the point of being called 'Forever > Knight.' When I have those daydreams of winning the lottery and how I'd revive FK, > it has Ger playing a now-human Nick, still torn about the people he lost in the > process (Nat, Tracy, LC) of regaining his humanity, and circumstances pulling > him back into the supernatural world he left behind. > I like that idea. I don't think it would be a reboot, so much as a "follow-on." It would have to have good producers, though, to work out well. I liked FK best when Bedard and Lalonde seemed to be in charge of the direction of the show, but I think they were very into the father-child aspect of FK, and it doesn't sound like that would be the direction of this "follow-on." With the right people running it though, it might work. Let's face it, though, the main reason I like this idea is probably because it allows for having Ger playing Nick. :) Margie (treeleaf) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 00:55:02 -0500 From: Javiette <Javiette@a.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? I think Detroit would be an excellent setting. A new vampire movie coming out in the states on April 11 called "Only Lovers Left Alive" is based in Detroit and feature four vampires: Adam, Eve, Eve's sister Ava and Christopher Marlowe (portrayed by John Hurt), yes, that Christopher Marlowe. The movie was shot by Jim Jarmusch and though it doesn't feature flashbacks, the characters do discuss past relationships with Byron, Shelley, classical composers, etc... It would be interesting to see those characters feature in an FKesque show. Rae On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:38 PM, "brutledge@c......." <brutledge@c.......> wrote: >> On Mar 11, 2014, at 5:23 PM, "Ms. Librarian" <mslibrarianxyzx@h.......> wrote: > >> But if they want really gritty set in the US, how about Detroit??? > > Ha! Detroit was the first place my brain went at the mention of 'gritty' too! > > <waves> > > Bonnie Rutledge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 04:37:13 -0400 From: Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......> Subject: Re: Old warriors never die, they just fade away On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Bonnie Rutledge wrote: > Wars 5 & 7 I lurked, because of the intimidation factor someone mentioned. > [...] [S]ometimes you just can't get the story down in the frenzy of War > (especially the leviathans that were Wars 5-12) I know what you mean. The first war after I joined the list was War 12; and I had only a slight idea what war was and didn't feel drawn to any specific affiliation. I decided it would be best just to read it--and that, in itself, wasn't exactly easy. There was a lot going on that I simply didn't grasp. On Mon, 10 Mar 2014, Lisa wrote: > As things slowed somewhat, I then felt like I didn't really participate > enough in the past to get the in-joke references that kept popping up. Exactly. Looking back, I realize that I missed so much in War 12, even though I managed to read all the posts. And then, of course, we had a six year hiatus; so, even when I'd decided that I would participate in the next war, it was a long time before I had the chance. When I decided to play as a Die-Hard, I asked Don about the faction; but his response was frustratingly sketchy. Writing crossovers is difficult, too: every faction has its own lore, and I wasn't around when it was created, so I just don't know things. Believe it or not, I find myself relying on google! On Thu, 6 Mar 2014, Allison wrote: > And there was a lot more war traffic to contend it so it all seemed very > confusing. I've had other people comment that war nowadays is a lot easier to keep up with and make sense of. There are almost as many factions playing now as there used to be; but there are a *lot* fewer writers. As a result, there are fewer threads to follow, which means the entanglement is less. And, of course, there are fewer posts (though that is more illusory than it might seem, for nowadays you can have some very long posts that are three or four times the length that was once permitted). Back in War 13, I was very nervous about writing war posts. I just got stuck in, and stuck it out, and learned "on the job", so to speak. Greer gwatson2@r....... http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 05:11:40 -0400 From: Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? I think a Hollywood-style reboot would be very hard to watch. Typically, they use the same character names; but they update their personal characteristics (and, of course, recast them), which is very jarring. One alternative would be Tim's "Eternal Nite", or the equivalent: i.e., a series set in an 21st century updated FK universe, whether Toronto or some other location, but with a completely different set of characters. The vampires would have the same characteristics; so there would *not* be werewolves, zombies, and the like! With different actors, there'd be bound to be a different dynamic; but, as the characters would have different names, one would expect them to be different people whose interrelationships would vary from the original. I could buy into a series like that, if it were done right. (Big "if", I fear.) What I'd really like to see, though, is a reboot done as a *sequel*. It would be set in modern-day Toronto, with the events of the original series treated as having taken place a couple of decades previously. In that case, some of the original actors could certainly be hired, if they were willing. After all, the difference in the appearance of anyone who played a *human* character would be totally natural. Actually, there are even a couple of the actors who played vampires who might (for the moment) pass. Ben Bass and Kristin Lehmann are older, but their appearance is still strikingly similar. Suppose Urs now owned the Raven: with the lighting, make-up, and such, not to mention a more assertive role as nightclub owner, one could interpret the changes in her physical appearance as being the result of psychological maturity and the responsibilities of her new role. As for Ben, the wig and clothes would bridge the years. Of course, it would probably mean the cancellation of Rookie Blue and Motive, both of which I enjoy. :( The new protagonist might be a young vampire with similar ideals to Nick's, inspired by his legend. He comes to Toronto, and decides to work as a detective, just the way Nick did. Perhaps Tracy is his older, more mature partner. Perhaps they work at a precinct captained by Stonetree or Reese, now coming up to retirement. Critical would be hiring Catherine Disher to play an older Dr. Lambert, now the Chief Coroner for the province, and a very senior pathologist. There would also be a younger, new character in a junior position who could play the role of confidant cum (potential) romantic interest. For older viewers, the first season might have a running plot thread about the survival of the characters through the post-LK period. Newer viewers might equally be enticed by the questions surrounding the fate of the legendary, inspirational Nick Knight. It would be both a new Forever Knight *and* the old one. (They'll never make it.) Greer gwatson2@r....... http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 10:54:11 +0000 From: "Phillips, Tim" <Tim.Phillips@s.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? >What I'd really like to see, though, is a reboot done as a *sequel*. It would be >set in modern-day Toronto, with the events of the original series treated as having >taken place a couple of decades previously. In that case, some of the original >actors could certainly be hired, if they were willing. After all, the difference >in the appearance of anyone who played a *human* character would be totally natural. >It would be both a new Forever Knight *and* the old one. I like your idea. With Eternal Nite, I was trying to keep some of the deeper struggle/character motivations that make FK enjoyable...yet have flexibility to innovate around that core. It really is Forever Night: Next Generation rather than the reboot of Star Trek currently on the big-screens. Your idea is a more direct Next Generation which means it is in Toronto (Which I like a lot), directly acknowledges the history before it and more of the original characters could logically appear (as special guest stars if nothing else) so long as the actor was still interested. >(They'll never make it.) Probably true. But...I never thought they'd remake Knight Rider, Beauty and the Beast, Wonder woman (all of which show how bad an idea a remake is), Battlestar Galactica (which shows how good a remake can be...but also...how you sometimes have to throw much of an old show away to remake it in fashion that engages all but the hardcore fans). For all the TV/movie studios proclaim that they want something new and fresh...they are in a very uncertain business and the comfort of knowing "the show/movie we are remaking was a big hit...we will be one also" is clearly intoxicating to many (especially those fronting the money to make the thing). It is possible Forever Knight will be rebooted....I just don't think it is in fact very likely...or that OUR ideas of how it should be done will be the final result. Tim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 11:20:16 -0400 From: Jeannie <nickismom1228@a.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? I think it would be nice if Ger had become human, aged and remade into a Vampire :) This all sounds wonderful... I would love to see the show remade in some way. Jeannie -----Original Message----- From: Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......> To: FORKNI-L <FORKNI-L@l.......> Sent: Wed, Mar 12, 2014 2:11 am Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? I think a Hollywood-style reboot would be very hard to watch. Typically, they use the same character names; but they update their personal characteristics (and, of course, recast them), which is very jarring. One alternative would be Tim's "Eternal Nite", or the equivalent: i.e., a series set in an 21st century updated FK universe, whether Toronto or some other location, but with a completely different set of characters. The vampires would have the same characteristics; so there would *not* be werewolves, zombies, and the like! With different actors, there'd be bound to be a different dynamic; but, as the characters would have different names, one would expect them to be different people whose interrelationships would vary from the original. I could buy into a series like that, if it were done right. (Big "if", I fear.) What I'd really like to see, though, is a reboot done as a *sequel*. It would be set in modern-day Toronto, with the events of the original series treated as having taken place a couple of decades previously. In that case, some of the original actors could certainly be hired, if they were willing. After all, the difference in the appearance of anyone who played a *human* character would be totally natural. Actually, there are even a couple of the actors who played vampires who might (for the moment) pass. Ben Bass and Kristin Lehmann are older, but their appearance is still strikingly similar. Suppose Urs now owned the Raven: with the lighting, make-up, and such, not to mention a more assertive role as nightclub owner, one could interpret the changes in her physical appearance as being the result of psychological maturity and the responsibilities of her new role. As for Ben, the wig and clothes would bridge the years. Of course, it would probably mean the cancellation of Rookie Blue and Motive, both of which I enjoy. :( The new protagonist might be a young vampire with similar ideals to Nick's, inspired by his legend. He comes to Toronto, and decides to work as a detective, just the way Nick did. Perhaps Tracy is his older, more mature partner. Perhaps they work at a precinct captained by Stonetree or Reese, now coming up to retirement. Critical would be hiring Catherine Disher to play an older Dr. Lambert, now the Chief Coroner for the province, and a very senior pathologist. There would also be a younger, new character in a junior position who could play the role of confidant cum (potential) romantic interest. For older viewers, the first season might have a running plot thread about the survival of the characters through the post-LK period. Newer viewers might equally be enticed by the questions surrounding the fate of the legendary, inspirational Nick Knight. It would be both a new Forever Knight *and* the old one. (They'll never make it.) Greer gwatson2@r....... http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 08:28:51 -0700 From: cindy clark <badwolf15895@s.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? I think Detroit would work well for a setting, but Toronto could still work as well. For characterization, what if we started with a new actor who portrayed someone whom Nick accidentally brought across sometime in his notorious past. This character, bent on revenge, succeeds in tracking down our guys in Toronto, only to discover the events of "Last Knight". He meets up with Jenny Schanke, who has gone into some variety of law enforcement, and finds out about all of the changes Nick and company made on the lives of people in Toronto, via flashbacks to our series, which inspires them to make efforts of their own. Just a way it could work with new actors. Cindy Most people have minds like concrete: mixed up or permanently set. ________________________________ From: Javiette <Javiette@a.......> To: FORKNI-L@l....... Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 1:55 AM Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? I think Detroit would be an excellent setting. A new vampire movie coming out in the states on April 11 called "Only Lovers Left Alive" is based in Detroit and feature four vampires: Adam, Eve, Eve's sister Ava and Christopher Marlowe (portrayed by John Hurt), yes, that Christopher Marlowe. The movie was shot by Jim Jarmusch and though it doesn't feature flashbacks, the characters do discuss past relationships with Byron, Shelley, classical composers, etc... It would be interesting to see those characters feature in an FKesque show. Rae On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:38 PM, "brutledge@c......." <brutledge@c.......> wrote: >> On Mar 11, 2014, at 5:23 PM, "Ms. Librarian" <mslibrarianxyzx@h.......> wrote: > >> But if they want really gritty set in the US, how about Detroit??? > > Ha! Detroit was the first place my brain went at the mention of 'gritty' too! > > <waves> > > Bonnie Rutledge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:01:35 -0400 From: L McDavid <mclisa1014@g.......> Subject: Re: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? I wouldn't want a reboot and wouldn't watch it. It wouldn't be the Forever Knight I loved. This is very much like the attempt to reboot Dark Shadows -- I hated it because of the changes in characters I remembered as well or better than a lot of the real people I knew in college, when the show was in first run. I wouldn't want to see the same thing happen to FK. The changes between the second and third seasons were bad enough. We lost Janette because the new Powers That Be didn't think she was sexy enough. (They apparently thought "sexy" had to mean bleached blonde and falling out of a string bikini.) The only reason we didn't lose Natalie in favor of a neck of the week was that Ger said if Catherine Disher and Nat went, he would leave too. LaCroix was to appear only when speaking on CERK. I don't want that, either. McLisa On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 4:07 PM, Ms. Librarian <mslibrarianxyzx@h....... > wrote: > ---------------------- Information from the mail header > ----------------------- > Sender: Forever Knight TV show <FORKNI-L@l.......> > Poster: "Ms. Librarian" <mslibrarianxyzx@h.......> > Subject: 'Reboot' of Forever Knight??? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I ran across this blog post on Yahoo dated 11/05/13. I was wondering > if anyone else had seen it. > > http://voices.yahoo.com/instead-charmed-lets-reboot-forever-knight-12388271.html?cat=2 > The blogger talks about rebooting FK instead of Charmed. He also ads > his ideas on how to do it? What do you guys think? > Not sure how I would feel about a reboot. In a way I would love to see > it again, but sad knowing our beloved actors probably wouldn't be in > it. Being from the US I would still want it set in Toronto. To me the > city was a character. > What would you change/keep the same?? > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:05:56 -0400 From: L McDavid <mclisa1014@g.......> Subject: Fwd for Otto Matic, re Reboot of FK Forwarded for Otto Matic. I sent a reply privately to one user ref. the reboot. This is part of it: "The only way would be to reunite everyone (crew including) and find a way to explain why they're older now. Some virus (think "Fever") would have made them immune to immortality for a while and prone to aging and they didn't find a cure for several years, explaining the aging. There are projects funded by fans now. Veronica Mars was one. I think that's the only way we'd get the original cast (& crew?) I doubt the original cast would go for it, but who knows" Schanke says: "I don't know, I just don't know..." Shall we get the ball rolling here? ;-) You're free to share this bit with the group, if you are so inclined but I am beyond shocked at how many people have no qualms about other actors stealing *our* characters! Ok, Go Fund it, somebody tell Ger to whip out his contacts, dust off the trench and sharpen his fangs, cause here we go. (Or do we?) otto. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:10:25 -0400 From: L McDavid <mclisa1014@g.......> Subject: Re: Reboot as next gen I don't think we could get the original actors or at least nowhere near all, and I'd want to see it still be in Toronto. I loved the -- for non-Canadians -- unusual setting. I would like too see a sort of next gen, where we're in the present with a basis in the show. I wrote a couple of fanfics where LC is dealing with the daughter of Nick, after Natalie succeeded in helping him back across. Something like that could be the premise. McLisa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:23:02 -0700 From: "Libby A. Smith" <libratsie@s.......> Subject: Re: Reboot as next gen The amusing thing to me about this discussion is that the Forever Knight we know *IS* a reboot based on the movie Nick Knight which wasn't set in Toronto. That's why I tend to give reboots an open mind until I see them. Sometimes I love them - all the Star Treks, Dark Shadows (I LOVED the 1990s series even though my favorite character, Willie Loomis, was quite different - I even enjoyed the recent movie), etc. They aren't the same show. That's fine and in a way easier for me to accept. Sometimes I love them, sometimes I loathe them, sometimes I tolerate them. --Libby ------------------------------ End of FORKNI-L Digest - 11 Mar 2014 to 12 Mar 2014 (#2014-47) **************************************************************
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