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Digest - 23 Apr 2012 to 24 Apr 2012 (#2012-65)

Tue, 24 Apr 2012

There are 5 messages totalling 282 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Help needed with Dark NatPack faction icon (5)

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Date:    Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:34:18 -0700
From:    Walt Doherty <wdoherty5@c.......>
Subject: Re: Help needed with Dark NatPack faction icon

----- Original Message -----
From: "Phillips, Tim" <Tim.Phillips@s.......>
> A sunset as background would be symbolically perfect, but how the heck you
> distinguish that from a sunrise in a still photo...I can't figure out.

A shot of the CN tower from the lake with the sun at the horizon in the
background would indicate sunset since you would be looking west or at least
northwest.

    WaltD

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Date:    Tue, 24 Apr 2012 07:18:51 -0400
From:    Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......>
Subject: Re: Help needed with Dark NatPack faction icon

On Sun, 22 Apr 2012, Walt suggested:

> How about blood dripping in the background; i.e., behind her picture.

For that matter, *I* thought of blood dripping from the tip of the caduceus.
Blood and vampires go together, don't they?  However, I rejected the idea of
lots of dripping blood when I made the Cousins icon--and I'm not sure how
appropriate it is on this one, either.

You see, there's the romantic side of vampires.

Would the Dark NatPack *interpret* a blood-dripping icon as a positive or
negative symbol for their faction?  Do they see Dr Natalie Lambert as
drinking exclusively bottled blood from a glass?  Do they ever interpret her
as bloodthirsty?

I do want the icon to feel right to members of its faction.

Are there any Dark NatPackers still on list?  How do *you* feel about
dripping blood?  Icon-ly, that is.


Greer

gwatson2@r.......
http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/


------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 24 Apr 2012 07:32:52 -0400
From:    Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......>
Subject: Re: Help needed with Dark NatPack faction icon

On Sun, 22 Apr 2012, Andrew wrote:

> How about latex-gloved hands holding crossed bone saws?

Were you offering to draw them for me?

But seriously....

The things I put in the icons come from a variety of sources, most of them
googled.  While I do sometimes essay fairly complex compositing, to do what
you suggest would require:

- one or two latex-covered hands (depending on whether I simply flip the
picture)
- if *two* gloves, the same colour latex!
- make that a *woman*'s hands!!!
- in the correct position to hold something
- of the right size to be a bone saw
- which probably means the hand actually is holding something that size,
which I would then have to remove

- a bone saw (to be flipped)
- cut in two pieces, to be inserted on either side of the hand so it looks
as if the saw is being gripped

And that's before we talk about lighting and shadows--which, now I come to
think about it, would automatically go wrong when the picture is flipped.
So make that *definitely* two pictures, which would have to have compatible
lighting in terms of direction.  (In terms of colour, the lighting maybe
could be tweaked if necessary.)  However, it is extremely likely that all
the pictures would be different sizes, which brings its own problems.

So...probably not.

However, my objection is not aesthetic.  It's just that this strikes me as
impractical from a compositor's perspective.


Greer

gwatson2@r.......
http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/


------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 24 Apr 2012 07:57:44 -0400
From:    Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......>
Subject: Re: Help needed with Dark NatPack faction icon

On Mon, 23 Apr 2012, Tim wrote:

> In the Dark Nat stories I've read, she often crossed to be with Nick.

Oh, I know.  That's what's making this such a problem.  Although I can
certainly make different symbols for the Dark NatPack and the Dark Nick and
NatPack (and have), trying to pick the two factions apart thematically is
very difficult.  I wish some of the old-time faction members--who presumably
have more of a grip on it!--would respond on list describing the
distinctions between the two.  When it comes to the "dark" side of Natalie
exclusive of the Nick/Nat relationship, I'd be particularly interested in
how *they* would symbolize it.  (It being *their* faction, and all that.)

> A sunset as background would be symbolically perfect, but how
> the heck you distinguish that from a sunrise in a still photo...I can't
> figure out.

Sunset/rise is something I've tended to use to symbolize "light" vampires,
with a night sky for the "dark" ones.  That's purely a matter of colour
symbolism, of course:  gold versus black.  However, I get your point:
Natalie is *becoming* a vampire, hence her sun is setting.  Symbolically,
that's perfect.  Visually, of course, there's precisely the problem you
bring up:  how do you distinguish sunrise from sunset?  I think I need to do
some more googling to see if I can maybe come up with something.

> Would it work if the background was the "forever knight moon"

That deliciously large moon has been used on several icons already:  the
Ravenettes, the Dark Knighties, and the Fleur-Boosters (which you haven't
seen yet).  That puts it in the same category as the wine glass of Ribena:
an obvious symbol, but one that's maybe getting over-used.

> What about a bouquet of black roses?

So far, I've been thinking of a black background for the Dark NatPack icon.
I don't think black roses would show up.  (That's why I was thinking maybe
crimson roses.)  It's a lovely idea, though.  (It might work with a sunset?)

> What if you ignore the remaining space and modify the image of Nat to
> either have fangs or the glowing eyes of the vampires?

Good composition only ignores space if there's a point to it.  So far, the
space is just sitting there, glowering at me.  As for eyes and fangs:  in
the screen capture I picked for Natalie, her mouth is shut; so no fangs.  I
*have* tweaked the eyes, though.  Mind you, they don't show up really.
(Can't, at that size.)    Still...there *may* be more I can do in that
regard.

Don't worry.  I'm still niggling away at it.  It'll come.


Greer

gwatson2@r.......
http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/



------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 24 Apr 2012 05:49:32 -0700
From:    Andrew Caruthers <slinter@j.......>
Subject: Re: Help needed with Dark NatPack faction icon

Actually, can't draw woth a damn. Was intended as a humorous tweak.
Still...


On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 07:32:52 -0400 Greer Watson <gwatson2@r.......>
writes:
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2012, Andrew wrote:
>
> > How about latex-gloved hands holding crossed bone saws?
>
> Were you offering to draw them for me?
>
> But seriously....
>
> The things I put in the icons come from a variety of sources, most of them
> googled.  While I do sometimes essay fairly complex compositing, to do what
> you suggest would require:
>
> - one or two latex-covered hands (depending on whether I simply flip the
> picture)
> - if *two* gloves, the same colour latex!
> - make that a *woman*'s hands!!!
> - in the correct position to hold something
> - of the right size to be a bone saw
> - which probably means the hand actually is holding something that size,
> which I would then have to remove
>
> - a bone saw (to be flipped)
> - cut in two pieces, to be inserted on either side of the hand so it looks
> as if the saw is being gripped
>
> And that's before we talk about lighting and shadows--which, now I come to
> think about it, would automatically go wrong when the picture is flipped.
> So make that *definitely* two pictures, which would have to have compatible
> lighting in terms of direction.  (In terms of colour, the lighting maybe
> could be tweaked if necessary.)  However, it is extremely likely that all
> the pictures would be different sizes, which brings its own problems.
>
> So...probably not.
>
> However, my objection is not aesthetic.  It's just that this strikes me as
> impractical from a compositor's perspective.
>
>
> Greer
>
> gwatson2@r.......
> http://www.foreverknight.org/FK4/
>


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End of FORKNI-L Digest - 23 Apr 2012 to 24 Apr 2012 (#2012-65)
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