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Digest - 24 Feb 2008 to 25 Feb 2008 (#2008-52)

Mon, 25 Feb 2008

There are 12 messages totalling 301 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Story question (7)
  2. Toronto - the virtual City
  3. second soundtrack CD, final track (2)
  4. Body Armor
  5. Admin: Please, everybody check your pcs

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Date:    Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:46:53 -0800
From:    cindy clark <badwolf15895@s.......>
Subject: Story question

I'm writing something that takes place in the mid 1970s, and I know Kevlar
 didn't exist for police use at that time, but they still had "bullet-proof" vests
 that were really bulky and ugly.  Can any one tell me what they were made of?

Most people have minds like concrete: mixed up or permanently set.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:35:49 -0500
From:    Stephanie Kellerman <stephke@i.......>
Subject: Re: Story question

Actually Kevlar was invented in the 70s so......

Steph

cindy clark wrote:
> I'm writing something that takes place in the mid 1970s, and I know Kevlar
 didn't exist for police use at that time, but they still had "bullet-proof" vests
 that were really bulky and ugly.  Can any one tell me what they were made of?

>
> Most people have minds like concrete: mixed up or permanently set.
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:24:50 -0800
From:    cindy clark <badwolf15895@s.......>
Subject: Re: Story question

I knew it was invented in the 70s, but, as I understand it, it wasn't readily
 available to local police forces.  I thought it was only available to
 specialized military forces like snipers and maybe EOD.  It of course is obvious the Nick
 and company would not have any need for that kind of protection, but at this
 point, I'd rather not have my mortal non-military characters shot full of holes.
  That may get to happen later.

Most people have minds like concrete: mixed up or permanently set.


----- Original Message ----
From: Stephanie Kellerman <stephke@i.......>
To: FORKNI-L@l.......
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 7:35:49 PM
Subject: Re: Story question

Actually Kevlar was invented in the 70s so......

Steph

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:43:29 -0800
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@c.......>
Subject: Re: Story question

Cindy Clark wrote:

>>I knew it was invented in the 70s, but, as I understand it, it wasn't
readily available to local police forces.

I looked up "bullet proof vests" on Wikipedia. Here's what I found:

=====
In 1969, American Body Armor was founded and began to produce a patented
combination of quilted nylon faced with multiple steel plates. This armor
configuration was marketed to American law enforcement agencies by the Smith
& Wesson gun company under the trade name "Barrier Vest". The "Barrier Vest"
was the first police vest to gain wide use during high threat police
operations.

In the mid-1970s, the DuPont Corporation introduced (Kevlar) synthetic
fiber, when woven into a fabric and layered. Immediately Kevlar was
incorporated into a National Institute of Justice (NIJ) evaluation program
to provide lightweight, concealable body armor to a test pool of American
law enforcement officers to ascertain if everyday concealable wearing was
possible. Lester Shubin, a program manager at the NIJ, managed this law
enforcement feasibility study within a few selected large police agencies,
and quickly determined that Kevlar body armor could be comfortably worn by
police daily, and would save lives.

In 1975 Richard A. Armellino, the founder of American Body Armor marketed an
all Kevlar vest called the K-15, comprised of 15 layers of Kevlar that also
included a 5" X 8" ballistic steel "Shok Plate" positioned vertically over
the heart and was issued U.S Patent #3,971,072 for this ballistic vest
innovation. Similarly sized and positioned "trauma plates" are still used
today on the front ballistic panels of most concealable vests, reducing
blunt trauma and increasing ballistic protection in the center-mass
heart/sternum area.

In 1976, Richard Davis, founder of Second Chance Body Armor designed this
company's first all-Kevlar vest, named the Model Y. The lightweight,
concealable vest industry was launched and a new form of daily protection
for the modern police officer was quickly adapted. By the mid to late 1980s,
an estimated 1/3 to 1/2 of police patrol officers wore concealable vests
daily. By the year 2006, more than 2,000 documented police vest "saves" were
recorded, validating the success and efficiency of lightweight concealable
body armor as a standard piece of everyday police equipment.
===========

I hope that answers your question!

Nancy Kaminski

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:44:09 -0500
From:    Stephanie Kellerman <stephke@i.......>
Subject: Re: Story question

I was thinking several police departments had access to them by 1975.

cindy clark wrote:
> I knew it was invented in the 70s, but, as I understand it, it wasn't readily
 available to local police forces.  I thought it was only available to
 specialized military forces like snipers and maybe EOD.  It of course is obvious the
 Nick and company would not have any need for that kind of protection, but at this
 point, I'd rather not have my mortal non-military characters shot full of
 holes.  That may get to happen later.
>
> Most people have minds like concrete: mixed up or permanently set.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Stephanie Kellerman <stephke@i.......>
> To: FORKNI-L@l.......
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 7:35:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Story question
>
> Actually Kevlar was invented in the 70s so......
>
> Steph
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:18:07 -0500
From:    Marg <mytoronto@r.......>
Subject: Toronto - the virtual City

If anyone is writing fanfic and would like to see what the streetscape
of Toronto looks like, check out:

http://toronto.virtualcity.ca/

The streetscapes are circa 2005-6, so they are a bit later than the FK
timeframe, but for. the older parts of the city, it hasn't changed all
that much. Nick's loft site is in the process of being converted to
Broadview Lofts.

--
Marg  mytoronto@r.......
still lurking in the City of the Knight

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:43:11 +0100
From:    Shining Moon <shining_moon2000@y.......>
Subject: Re: second soundtrack CD, final track

It is GWDs voice. During that time Mark Banning let us know, because my friend
 wanted to know for sure.
And yes, it was a Thank You from Fred Mollin and Ger.


------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:35:55 -0500
From:    Emily Lacey <laceyem@h.......>
Subject: Re: Story question

<major snip>
> lightweight concealable
> body armor as a standard piece of everyday police equipment.

What it doesn't tell you, and wouldn't apply to Nick in the 1970's, is
that many police departments can't afford to supply them to their
officers, so the officers have to work and save up to buy one for
themselves. I haven't looked to see how much a vest costs, but it must be a=
 rather hefty price for the newbies to go without when they first start the=
ir work.

But then, Nick doesn't really need a vest, and apparently
didn't wear one, as the many holey items of clothing he had testified to. I=
'm surprised he didn't figure out a way to buy vests for some of the other =
officers...


------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:38:52 -0500
From:    Michele Azuddin <mobody@g.......>
Subject: Re: Story question

It wouldnt be unreasonable to think that nick would find a way to outfit his
fellow officers.

In my home town, about ten years ago, one of the high school students in my
son's class decided to get vests for our local police department after
reading that our city council would not fund the purchase.

He got creative, and contacted the manufacturer, who was happy to put him in
touch with departments that upgraded their vests, and found that many
departments were happy to either donate or sell for a discounted price,
their older vests (reasoning that "last years model" was better than no vest
at all).  As a result, many officers in our town sport vests that bear the
notation, "donated by <student name>.  To date, he has never gotten a
ticket.

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 4:35 AM, Emily Lacey <laceyem@h.......> wrote:

>
> But then, Nick doesn't really need a vest, and apparently
> didn't wear one, as the many holey items of clothing he had testified to.
> I'm surprised he didn't figure out a way to buy vests for some of the other
> officers...
>
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:28:46 -0600
From:    Roxana Elizondo <roxeliz@h.......>
Subject: Re: second soundtrack CD, final track

shining_moon wrote:
> It is GWDs voice. During that time Mark Banning let us know, because my
 friend wanted to know for sure.
> And yes, it was a Thank You from Fred Mollin and Ger.


Nice to know. I've always thought that it was more of a message from GWD rather
 than a hint at what happened after 'Last Knight'. It's a very optimistic
 message.

GWD strikes me as a pretty jovial guy and "just keep a smile on...just keep a
 smile on" strikes me as being more in line with his own personality rather than
 Nick's and the whole "going into our next 800 years together" as being a nod to
 the character of Nick Knight.

Roxana

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Feb 2008 07:59:00 -0800
From:    cindy clark <badwolf15895@s.......>
Subject: Body Armor

Thanks to everyone who helped with this question. I hope the information proves
 useful to others too.

Most people have minds like concrete: mixed up or permanently set.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:32:33 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Admin: Please, everybody check your pcs

Someone has an infected computer which is signing my Mindspring address to
 spam. That means either I'm in the source's address book, or there was mail from me
 in the source's box when the infection occurred.   I can be absolutely certain
 it isn't coming from my pc because I have old-fashioned dial-up which hasn't
 been used in weeks from home, and my home pc is never left logged on. Some of
 the spam that's bouncing back to my account has obscene subject lines, so I'm
 really unhappy.

So please run your virus checkers as soon as you can, especially if I'm in your
 address book and/or you have internet access that is constantly on.  It looks
 like the spammer might be using networks of compromised pcs without the owner's
 realizing their pcs are infected.

Thank you.

McLisa,
who doesn't want to have to change her address, with all the hassle, but will
 have to if she continues to get thrity or forty spam bounces every day.

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 24 Feb 2008 to 25 Feb 2008 (#2008-52)
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Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/