FORKNI-L
Digest - 2 Dec 2007 to 3 Dec 2007 (#2007-132)
Mon, 3 Dec 2007
There are 19 messages totalling 695 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Today's Birthday: December 2
2. Yesterday's Birthday: December 1
3. Kid vamps (6)
4. Alumni Siting (4)
5. Alumni Sighting - One More in Tin Man
6. Teen vamps (was Kid vamps)
7. An LC Spotting (3)
8. Episode Discussion: Killer Instinct (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 22:04:07 -0600
From: eowyn23@j.......
Subject: Today's Birthday: December 2
Hi Y'all!
Today is National Fritters Day and the Birthday of: Kimberly Schneider
silverqueen3312@y.......
You may send birthday greetings to Kimberly at the above email address.
Please NOT to the list!
Others who share Kimberly's birthday:
Paul C. W. Chu, Physicist; superconductivity researcher
Jonathan Frid, TV Actor; Dark Shadows' Barnabas Collins
Lucy Liu, Actress
Charles Ringling, Businessperson
Georges Seurat, Painter
Significant events on this day:
1901, King Camp Gillette patented the first safety razor which had a
double-edged disposable blade.
1927, Ford Motor Company unveiled the Model A automobile.
1965, Walt Disney's movie "That Darn Cat!" was released in movie
theaters.
1982, Barney B. Clark became the first recipient of an artificial heart.
I hope you have a very Happy Birthday, Kimberly!
If you would like to be added to the birthday announcements, please send
your name, birthdate (no year needed) and email address to me,
eowyn23@j......., privately, and I'll be glad to add you.
Terri
eowyn23@j.......
GWDFC, FK X-Stitcher, Proud Survivor of FK Fic Wars 8-12, Texas Knight
Dreamers, Knighties List Owner, Keeper of the FK Birthday List
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:49:29 -0600
From: eowyn23@j.......
Subject: Yesterday's Birthday: December 1
Hi Y'all!
Yesterday was National Pie Day and Eat A Red Apple Day and the Birthday
of: Lucie lnicolau@p.......
You may send birthday greetings to Lucie at the above email address.
Please NOT to the list!
Others who share Lucie's birthday:
Woody Allen, Movie Producer/Director
Bette Midler, TV/Movie/Stage Actress
Mary Martin, Movie/Stage Actress
David Doyle, TV/Movie/Stage/Soap Actor
Richard Pryor, Comedian
Significant events on this day:
1878, The first telephone was installed in the White House.
1917, Father Edward Flanagan opened Boys Town in an area west of Omaha,
Nebraska.
1929, the game of Bingo was invented by Edwin S. Lowe.
1955, Rosa Parks, refused to give up her seat to a white man aboard a
Montgomery, Ala., city bus.
I hope you have a very Happy Birthday, Lucie!
If you would like to be added to the birthday announcements, please send
your name, birthdate (no year needed) and email address to me,
eowyn23@j......., privately, and I'll be glad to add you.
Terri
eowyn23@j.......
GWDFC, FK X-Stitcher, Proud Survivor of FK Fic Wars 8-12, Texas Knight
Dreamers, Knighties List Owner, Keeper of the FK Birthday List
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:40:34 -0800
From: ChicagoMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@y.......>
Subject: Kid vamps
This was inspired by a discussion on a Moonlight list. What do we think it
would be like for a kid that got turned into a vamp in the FK verse? Would they all
be like Divia, and/or the evil child-vamp in Interview With the Vampire? Or
would some be different? I suspect maybe the mind keeps developing despite the
body being frozen.What do you think happened to the boy that got turned in Father
Figure?
Mel
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:09:07 -0800
From: Kristen Fife <fenix23fyre@y.......>
Subject: Alumni Siting
The SciFi show Tin Man is on and in the opening
credits Blu Mankuma. Interestingly, it's not listed at
IMDB.
Kristen Fife, Author
http://tinyurl.com/2wgmdg
In Memory of Tuffer -1/9/02-11/15/07
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 00:15:12 -0500
From: Michele Azuddin <mobody@g.......>
Subject: Re: Kid vamps
I had thought about exactly this question about the ethics of it. How would
a child vamp survive. Divia was entombed for most of her vampire existance,
no wonder she went insane, We don't know what happened to Daniel, but he was
pretty resourceful as a mortal kid, so I would guess that he would survive
if not thrive as a vampire.
But getting back to ethics... what about the "pedophile vamp" that brings
across a child as a perpetual subject to abuse? Or a vamp bringing across a
young teen to preserve their youth? I shudder to think about it. I suppose
that was in part why it was considered distasteful to do so in the Anne Rice
Universe.
On Dec 2, 2007 11:40 PM, ChicagoMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@y.......> wrote:
> What do we think it would be like for a kid that got turned into a vamp in
> the FK verse? Would they all be like Divia, and/or the evil child-vamp in
> Interview With the Vampire? Or would some be different? I suspect maybe the
> mind keeps developing despite the body being frozen.What do you think
> happened to the boy that got turned in Father Figure?
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 23:43:14 -0600
From: Rebecca Hinson <rebeccahinson@c.......>
Subject: Re: Alumni Siting
-----Original Message-----
From: Forever Knight TV show [mailto:FORKNI-L@lists.psu.edu] On Behalf Of
Kristen Fife
The SciFi show Tin Man is on and in the opening
credits Blu Mankuma. Interestingly, it's not listed at
IMDB.
We watched it tonight but I didn't see him (or hear him). Perhaps he's in
another episode? I think there are two more parts, but I could be wrong.
:)
~Cousin Becky
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 01:13:49 -0600
From: Roxana Elizondo <roxeliz@h.......>
Subject: Re: Alumni Siting
Kristen Fire wrote:
> The SciFi show Tin Man is on and in the opening
> credits Blu Mankuma. Interestingly, it's not listed at
> IMDB.
I saw a portion of a tv special that sci-fi ran on Tin Man earlier in the week
and they showed a quick flash of Blu Mankuma. He had some majorly bushy and
long sideburns. I read in an article somewhere that he was playing a shapeshifting
Toto. I'm not quite sure if Toto talks while in dog form but if he does he'll
undoubtedly be voiced by BM.
Roxana
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 04:38:36 -0800
From: Libby Singleton <libratsie@s.......>
Subject: Re: Alumni Siting
Blu plays Toto, who in this version is apparently a shapeshifter. He was shown
in the "upcoming scenes" and his name mentioned in a local television magazine.
--Libs
Kristen Fife <fenix23fyre@y.......> wrote:
The SciFi show Tin Man is on and in the opening
credits Blu Mankuma. Interestingly, it's not listed at
IMDB.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 05:19:25 -0800
From: Kristen Fife <fenix23fyre@y.......>
Subject: Re: Alumni Sighting - One More in Tin Man
Callum Keith Rennie is also in the mini series. He
plays Zero, the general to the evil sorceress. Looks
good doing it, I might add. Black leather agrees with
him ;)
It appears that many of the alumni from FK that were
successful after (outside the main characters) moved
west to Vancouver and have found a home on the Sci Fi
channel (or the USA Network in the case of Christina
Cox). Vancouver is known as "the Hollywood of the
North" around these parts. (I live about 3 hours south
in Seattle).
--- Libby Singleton <libratsie@s.......> wrote:
> Blu plays Toto, who in this version is apparently a
> shapeshifter. He was shown in the "upcoming scenes"
> and his name mentioned in a local television
> magazine.
>
> --Libs
>
Kristen Fife, Author
http://tinyurl.com/2wgmdg
In Memory of Tuffer -1/9/02-11/15/07
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 05:22:57 -0800
From: Kristen Fife <fenix23fyre@y.......>
Subject: Re: Kid vamps
I think Anne Rice had it right in IV with a Vampire.
Claudia as she gets older in mind reminds me of a lot
of Janette in her general outlook. I think it is
going to be quite normal for the mind to mature while
the body does not. I think such pure innocence has a
greater capacity for pure evil, if for no other reason
than sheer lack of experience as a human in dealing
with complex moral issues.
--- ChicagoMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@y.......> wrote:
. What do we think it would be like for a kid
> that got turned into a vamp in the FK verse? Would
> they all be like Divia, and/or the evil child-vamp
> in Interview With the Vampire? Or would some be
> different? I suspect maybe the mind keeps developing
> despite the body being frozen.What do you think
> happened to the boy that got turned in Father
> Figure?
>
> Mel
>
>
Kristen Fife, Author
http://tinyurl.com/2wgmdg
In Memory of Tuffer -1/9/02-11/15/07
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 05:33:05 -0800
From: Kristen Fife <fenix23fyre@y.......>
Subject: Re: Teen vamps (was Kid vamps)
I'd like to also add another question that I find
comes to mind in my own writing. In the last one
hundred years the age of majority has been in the late
teens to early twenties in western culture, but before
that "maturity" was often between 12-14 (shorter
lifespans, lower population etc.) So, in, say, 1423 a
vampire brought across a youth or young woman that was
15. Considered an "adult" at the time, these days s/he
would be considered a child. In ancient Roman times,
Divia wasn't too young to be considered on the verge
of adulthood (she looked to be about 14 to me). How
would such a vampire deal with the lack of acceptance?
Obviously in my mind, they would turn it to their
advantage with things like hunting, but what about
curfews? Finding a place to live? "Hanging out"? I
mean, can you imaging being 500 years old but being
unable to buy or lease a home or car because you
aren't "legally" old enough, even with Aristotle's
help? They wouldn't be able to even *go* to the Raven,
it would arouse suspicion from the mortal patrons, and
potentially call attention to the club from the mortal
authorities.
--- Michele Azuddin <mobody@g.......> wrote:.
>
> Or
> a vamp bringing across a
> young teen to preserve their youth?
Kristen Fife, Author
http://tinyurl.com/2wgmdg
In Memory of Tuffer -1/9/02-11/15/07
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 08:36:38 -0500
From: "Phillips, Tim" <Tim.Phillips@s.......>
Subject: Re: Kid vamps
> What do we think it would be like for a kid that got turned into a vamp in
> the FK verse?
I suspect things would be rather difficult.
Basic things like owning a home or driving a car would be all
but impossible because they would be "just a kid" by all appearances.
Relationships beyond the casual would be really problematical.
The film Near Dark by Kathy Bigelow had an interesting character
named Hector. Physically, he was a 12 year old boy. In reality...he
was 60 or so and had been turned by one of the older female vampires who
wanted a child (kind of like the situation in Father Figure).
The movie was more overt with the issues that a child vampire
would face over time then FK ever bothered to get (it is also my
favorite vampire film, I recommend it to any FK folks who need a fix
beyond the season DVDs).
For what it is worth, I do not think Divia was evil because she
was turned as a child. Being a vampire gave her the powers to make her
childish desires happen....but I think she was not quite right before
she was made into a vampire.
Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 08:41:36 -0500
From: Roger Armstrong <eriklebeau@g.......>
Subject: Re: Kid vamps
> For what it is worth, I do not think Divia was evil because she
> was turned as a child. Being a vampire gave her the powers to make her
> childish desires happen....but I think she was not quite right before
> she was made into a vampire.
That's pretty much confirmed by what she says in AtA -- that she was
turned because her "evil was pure". Which suggests to me that she was
already falling very heavily on the Dark Side of the Force as a mortal
and her sire wanted to crystallize that before the weight of morality
and societal acceptance slowly whittled away at that.
Roger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 07:22:44 -0800
From: "jerezfino@y......." <jerezfino@y.......>
Subject: Re: Kid vamps
IIRC, in AtA, LaCroix did make reference to the evil in her having been
magnified after she was brought across.
:) Boomer
"Phillips, Tim" <Tim.Phillips@s.......> wrote:
For what it is worth, I do not think Divia was evil because she
was turned as a child. Being a vampire gave her the powers to make her
childish desires happen....but I think she was not quite right before
she was made into a vampire.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:20:40 -0800
From: Cassie <writinggirl01@y.......>
Subject: An LC Spotting
I was at my grandparents yesterday watching a 'Jessie Stone' special on CBS,
and as I saw one of the costars I doubled over in laughter. There standing out
in the sunlight on a deck of a yatch was...(drum roll please)...Nigel Bennett!
He was accussed of having raped a 18 year old girl, and taping himself doing
it!
I wonder if he did any of that as LC???
Cassie
“Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering - and it's all over
much too soon.” ~ Woody Allen
Homepage – http://www.geocities.com/writinggirl01/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:30:46 -0600
From: Roxana Elizondo <roxeliz@h.......>
Subject: Re: Episode Discussion: Killer Instinct
I realize the two week discussion time isn't a limit but I'm sneaking this in
just before the next episode discussion.
Tim Phillips wrote:
> 1) lot of echoes of Dark Knight here in the opening scenes. Guess they
> wanted to re-introduce things to any new viewers.
When I first started watching FK I came in during the final episodes of the
third season and caught up on the rest of the third when the season was reaired in
syndication. At that time I didn't know how many episodes FK had and it was
through the Internet where I found out the episode synopsis for the first and
second seasons. It was around this time that sci-fi got the rights to broadcast
the show and I remember being so excited that I was finally going to watch the
episodes that at that point I had only been able to read about. However, oddly
enough sci-fi began by airing the second season rather than the first so Killer
Instinct in my mind very much feels like a great introductory episode much like
the first episode of the X-Files' second season is a great alternative to that
series' pilot.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the general consensus at least as far as
the principle cast and the producers are concerned is that the FK really hit its
stride creatively with the second season while the first season was them trying
to figure out what worked and what didn't. While I enjoy the second season
tremendously I can't say I totally agree with that thought. I'm a big fan of the
first season and with the second season I feel the show's move to syndication
stripped it or at least sent to the back burner some of the things I really
enjoyed. I missed the easy camraderie that Nick and Natalie had in the first season
as well as the subtle shifting of Natalie's romantic feelings towards Nick
which were pretty much abandoned until Be My Valentine. But that's not to say I
didn't like some of the new wrinkles that the second season created and which
Killer Instinct delved into.
I'm a big fan of the idea that as Nick worked more and more with Natalie and
was more entrenched in the human world through his friendships and job his
vampiric senses and his distinctive vampiric presence got dulled. When Nick walked
into the Raven for the first time in the episode Janette herself pointed out that
she barely felt him and that he seemed more human than ever. I think that's
another reason why the first season is so interesting to me. Nick firmly believed
that he had killed LaCroix and that essentially freed him of almost 800 years
of constantly looking over his shoulder to see if LaCroix was around the
corner. That has got to be one of the most carefree years of his long (un)life as a
vampire. That's not to say that it wasn't without it's share of bumps (Feeding
the Beast anyone?) but it contributed to some real advancements in Nick's quest
that by the time the second season rolled around it was being pointed out to
him. I wonder where Nick would have been had LaCroix not resurfaced?
Tim Phillips wrote:
> 2) any senior list members have insights as to why LaCroix was
> "revived"? It simply makes pratical sense as it opened up storylines
> to have him about in "modern times" to interact with Nick, but was there
> any other reasons?
Now I am no means a senior member but just goes to show how charismatic Nigel
Bennett is as an actor. He was one, maybe two season every so often and he still
manages to create this extremely fascinating character. Who wouldn't want to
see more of him.
Tim Phillips wrote
> 3) the return of the moose jammies
I love those jammies and the little confusion that everyone had in identifying
them. "Nice reindeer" Hee!
Greer Watson wrote:
>> Grace and Natalie would be quite a double-team at a Red Cross
>>blood-drawing. Poor Jeff barely knew what hit him.
>
> -- this scene is practically identical to the one in Only the Lonely where
> they trap Schanke for a blood sample to use as control for a DNA analysis.
I love that scene. For some reason I doubt Jeff and Schanke were the first
"victims" those two got into their clutches. It's a shame they cut the Grace
character as the season progressed who was a nice way to round out Natalie's
character by giving her some interaction with other characters and who in her
own right was a delight.
McLisa wrote:
>>any senior list members have insights as to the captain swap; Was
>>Gary Farmer not interested doing another year or was there a decision to
>>change things to shake it up a little;.
>
> It was definitely TPTB or I guess kow we have to say the powers that were who
> decided to change captains. I know it was not that Gary Farmer didn't want to
> come back or wasnt available. Again, we dont know why. Personally I was sorry
> to see him go. I liked both Cohen and Reese but personally I ever felt that
> either quite fit the show as well as Stonetree.
Stonetree was my favorite captain. I really can't pinpoint why that is because
I enjoyed Cohen and Reese as well. Perhaps it's because Stonetree got more
character development then Reese and definitely Cohen or because I just like Gary
Farmer's performance. I think Cohen had a lot of potential and I wished they'd
have used her more, especially as far as her background with the Feds was
concerned
Tim Phillips
> 9) I've got to say that the impromptu cross Nick deflects LaCroix with
> is not something I would do in a series today. It is just too easy a
> weapon. According to this theory, you could drive a vampire off with
> two crossed popsicle sticks.
Which is probably why I cracked up when Mulder in X-Files tried (and failed) to
deflect away a flurry of approaching vampires using two breadsticks.
And lastly a couple of more observations. From the moment I saw it I cringed at
the bun they started to put Catherine Disher in mainly because she's got such
great hair. The perm (which I'm oddly attached to) that she sported in season
1 grew out and what I'm guessing is her hair's natural curly state was emphasized
on ocassion in season 2. However, now I'm a little more forgiving of the bun
because I didn't know that CD had had a baby in between the seasons and the
child was sometimes on set. From a practical point of view it would make sense to
put the actress in a hair style that would go seemlessly between the set and
the trailer. There would be no need to touch up her hair if a child's errant
fingers messed it up and a bun is far easier to create then to spend time on a
loose curly style. That would leave more time for her to spend in her trailer
with her baby rather than sitting in the makeup trailer waiting to get coiffed.
Nick, GWD, and the sunbed: I like that they were finally able to sneak in the
sunbed that was only referenced in Dark Knight and that had made an appearance
in the Rick Springfield tv movie. On a really shallow note boo that we only got
a a tiny glimpse of Ger shirtless in it. In the dvd commentary Ger alluded that
it was probably a good thing that he wasn't required to go shirtless much but
I disagree. He went shirtless in Fatal Mistake I think and in one of the tv
movies he did so no fair denying the female portion of FK's fanbase something
extra to appreciate. After all it's not like anyone was expecting him to be Mr.
Hardbody.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:33:05 -0500
From: Roger Armstrong <eriklebeau@g.......>
Subject: Re: An LC Spotting
> He was accussed of having raped a 18 year old girl, and taping himself doing
it!
> I wonder if he did any of that as LC???
I think LaCroix would pride himself on not having to lower himself to
rape. That would be too easy. To seduce a willing victim would be
more of a challenge and more worthy of his abilities. Of course, he
clearly wouldn't tape it. That's empirical evidence, and we all know
how bad that can be to get out.
Now, if you look at his mortal life, I can definitely see him having
committed rape while out on campaign. We know from AMPH that he gave
those under his command the permission to do it, and it didn't seem to
be especially shocking to the Senator that mentioned it. So I expect
it was fairly common and that he would have engaged in it at some
point prior to his becoming a General.
Roger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:17:21 -0500
From: "Phillips, Tim" <Tim.Phillips@s.......>
Subject: Re: Episode Discussion: Killer Instinct
>I realize the two week discussion time isn't a limit but I'm sneaking this
>in just before the next episode discussion.
I believe I can safely speak for the forum in saying "comment
about FK is always welcome". Timing is not an issue (except we do like
comment sooner rather than later because it may mean you comment more
instead of less...and that is always simply better as there is no such
thing as too much FK).
>Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the general consensus at least as far
>as the principle cast and the producers are concerned is that the FK really
>hit its stride creatively with the second season
I do not know what the cast/crew thought at the time.
I myself do not see a real difference in quality from season 1
to 2.
You can see a real difference between seasons 1 and 2 in things
like the X-Files, Babylon 5 or ST:TNG.
The FK folks seem to have settled right in very quickly and I
think the episodes done were as good as anything done later.
Opinions will doubtlessly vary.
>I think that's another reason why the first season is so interesting to me.
>Nick firmly believed that he had killed LaCroix and that essentially freed
>him of almost 800 years of constantly looking over his shoulder to see if
>LaCroix was around the corner.
I had never thought of that fact.
I'm not sure it is obvious in the series...but if you were
writing it as a book...it would be a major issue.
Interesting.
>It's a shame they cut the Grace character as the season progressed who was
>a nice way to round out Natalie's character
Agreed.
Grace was a nice secondary character who made the FK world seem
more "full".
>Stonetree was my favorite captain.
Mine also.
I think it has something to do with the fact that he seemed to
think there was something honestly odd about Nick. I would have liked
to see him stay on ...with him and Schanke finally putting together the
pieces and realizing what Nick really was at some point.
> the child was sometimes on set.
There is a scene in the morgue where there is a big green fuzzy
catepiller toy visible on Natalie's desk. What I've heard is that Ms.
Disher had her son with her on set between shots, playing with him at
the set's desk. When the cameras were about to roll, her son went back
to whomever was watching him while Ms. Disher worked...but his
catepiller toy was forgotten for a least a few minutes and ended up in
the show.
Tim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:26:04 -0500
From: Gaelin Wade <gaelinwade@a.......>
Subject: Re: An LC Spotting
I agree with Roger, LC would be more about "seduction" than rape. He'd pride
himself on being able to persuade an unwilling victim to become willing. As for
the General, I think that even though he gave orders/allowed his men to rape
(humiliate the enemy), I find it difficult to see him doing it himself. He's too
secure in his own power to feel a need to debase himself like that. As with his
vampire self, seduction would be more of a challenge.
That said, though I can't see The General committing rape. Tthe young man/soldier
Lucius? Possible, given the times and his probable social position. But there
is something about The General's and LC self possession and self control that
I would imagine had been present even in young Lucius.
Gaelin
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Armstrong <eriklebeau@g.......>
Now, if you look at his mortal life, I can definitely see him having committed
rape while out on campaign. We know from AMPH that he gave those under his
command the permission to do it, and it didn't seem to
be especially shocking to the Senator that mentioned it. So I expect it was
fairly common and that he would have engaged in it at some point prior to his
becoming a General.
------------------------------
End of FORKNI-L Digest - 2 Dec 2007 to 3 Dec 2007 (#2007-132)
*************************************************************
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