FORKNI-L
Digest - 13 Feb 2006 to 14 Feb 2006 (#2006-47)
Tue, 14 Feb 2006
There are 13 messages totalling 461 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. FORKNI-L Digest - 12 Feb 2006 to 13 Feb 2006 (#2006-46)
2. YKYTOWFKW...
3. 24
4. When does one stop being a fledgling? (8)
5. The term fledgling and other terminology? (2)
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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:26:06 -0600
From: Lyn Palmer <wizkid2u@c.......>
Subject: Re: FORKNI-L Digest - 12 Feb 2006 to 13 Feb 2006 (#2006-46)
"Does anyone know if that's really Ben Bass in the Samsung commercial which
CBC has been showing a lot in the past few days, in which a man takes
delivery of his neighbour's expensive new TV, or just someone who can do the
puzzled/innocent look just the same as Vachon?"
I just pulled up the commercial on the net, and it's not Ben Bass---but I
can see how you'd think that!
LYN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you haven't found something strange during the day, it hasn't been much
of a day.
-- John A. Wheeler
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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 22:51:35 +0000
From: Kezia Hepden <kezia.hepden@n.......>
Subject: YKYTOWFKW...
You know you're totally obsessed with Forever Knight when...
You come across a version of solitaire Mahjongg called "DK" (because it's in
the shape of the letters D and K), and immediately assume it stands for "Dark
Knight"!
(But - what else does DK stand for, anyway?)
Cousin Kezia
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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:03:05 -0800
From: Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y.......>
Subject: 24
Just saw a preview for next week's episode. Ger's back and it looks
like he gets some action. <no not that way, get your minds out of
the gutter> Some shooting type action...
As for the discussion before... he looks pretty trim when they show
his whole body.
Can't wait... and I thought he wasn't going to be on anymore.
Now hopefully I can have a little FK marathon on my days off later
this week.
-Amanda
"This thing... man... whatever it is...evil may have created it, left its mark
on it, but evil does not rule it. So I cannot kill it." - Gabriel Van Helsing
http://www.darksideoftheglass.com
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Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:59:52 -0600
From: wirickml@v.......
Subject: When does one stop being a fledgling?
Hi All
When does one stop being a fledgling?
When Janette first saw Nick, she was around 200 years old. Was she still
considered LaCroix’s Fledgling?
Is that why she had LaCroix bring Nick across?
Urs was around 100 or so, was she still considered Vachon’s fledgling?
Urs seem to be able to go her own way.
Serena must have been less than 100 years old. How soon did she ‘leave’ Nick to
go in search of her own way to become mortal again?
Was she still considered Nick’s fledgling?
The doctor during the plague seem to go his own way immediately without
training and went crazy. Was that because Nick failed to impart any training to him?
Wasn’t LaCroix also responsible because he condoned Nick bring the doctor
across? Didn’t he give Nick the ‘go ahead’?
Or could it be when one is able to stand on one’s on feet and obey the code,
you stop being a fledgling?
Could it be that to the sire as long as you exist, you will always be their
“fledgling?”
Just curious as to the time line of fledglings.
I know the writers of FK were not all that consistent in what was canon and
what was not.
I think there were other examples, but that's all I can think of off the top of
my head.
Mary Lynn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:26:03 -0800
From: Kristen Fife <fenix23fyre@y.......>
Subject: Re: When does one stop being a fledgling?
Interesting question. I personally think that a
master/sire vampire will always consider his
"children" to be "fledglings", just use LaCroix and
Nick as an example.
I think of when Nick brought Richard across and left
him alone. I would be willing to bet the time of
"training" or mentoring would vary from vampire to
vampire, personally. How long does it take to train a
young vampire? To control their bloodlust around
mortals?
--- wirickml@v....... wrote:
> Hi All
>
> When does one stop being a fledgling?
>
>> Mary Lynn
>
"The price for this gift is the darkness of the night, and the blood of
humanity to sustain you." -THICKER THAN WATER, Kristen Fife in progress
See my blog at http://spaces.msn.com/members/landinn/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:54:21 -0500
From: libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: When does one stop being a fledgling?
I don't think the term "fledgling" was ever used in FK. That's a fanfic term
(unless I'm forgetting an FK use of the word which is possible).
I don't think there's really an answer. A FK vampire can survive on his or her
own immediately in at least some cases if the vampire who created him or her
doesn't stick around. In other cases, the creator sticks around and a sort of
family is formed, and then there'd probably be examples of 'the
creator/master/sire' never seeing the newer vampire as "an adult" (so to speak).
--Libs
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Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:12:07 -0800
From: Laurie of the Isles <laudon1228@y.......>
Subject: Re: When does one stop being a fledgling?
--- wirickml@v....... wrote:
> Hi All
>
> When does one stop being a fledgling?
LaCroix' answer? When he says so. (g)
"You will always be mine...eternally."
LaCroix to Nicholas, 'The Fix'
Laurie of the Isles
<Laudon1228@y.......>
http://www.livejournal.com/users/1_mad_squirrel/
"It's about flocking...and togetherness." - Jack O'Neill, 'Fallen', Stargate
SG-1
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:20:53 -0700
From: kimmer tom <kimmertom@m.......>
Subject: Re: When does one stop being a fledgling?
"fledgling" was used all the time
in the "Subspecies" vampire movies.
i *love* those movies. shown so
rarely these days, and i am having
trouble finding them for my own
private stash.......<sigh>
kimmer
----- Original Message -----
From: libratsie@a.......
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:56 AM
To: FORKNI-L@l.......
Subject: Re: When does one stop being a fledgling?
I don't think the term "fledgling" was ever used in FK. That's a fanfic t=
erm (unless I'm forgetting an FK use of the word which is possible).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:22:35 -0500
From: Deborah Hymon <debh@e.......>
Subject: Re: When does one stop being a fledgling?
Mary Lynn,
This is a very good question for discussion. I think you're totally right.
On this issue (FK cannon) the writers 'were not' consistent. However, this
leaves the viewer and fan open to use their own imagination to elaborate. I
love when the viewer/reader can draw their own conclusion. Fan fiction has
taken your question a step further, with each writer having their own twist
to the answer. There are too many ideas out there to discuss them here.
The dictionary defines fledgling as a young and inexperienced person.
Personally, I like to think that each fledgling is able to stand on their
own depending on their maturity, meaning their control; not just the blood
lust control, but of their other special abilities. IMHO the sire's blood
would have a lot to do with it. If the vampire is able to receive thoughts,
experiences, and 'to live life' through the victim's blood, then this should
also apply to the person who is brought across. The fledgling should be able
to gain strength and control from what they experience in their sire's
blood.
I think there are other influences; perhaps the person's 'mortal'
personality. I've always felt a good bit of a person's thoughts, emotions,
experiences in life, and morals, are brought across into his vampire
existence. Now this doesn't mean that the fledgling is 100% what they were
as a mortal. How could they be? Also, in the beginning, a fledgling would
have to deal with the incredible, intense blood lust. Don't you think this
would influence their maturing until they were able to control it.
There are so many issues that would influence a fledgling. I also believe
there comes a time when the vampire can live separate from their sire, and
deal with the control issue, and their perfected super traits (keen eyesight
and hearing, flying, etc.). To me, this is when the vampire is no longer a
fledgling. I would think vampires are just like us mortals, each developing
at their own pace. Each one of us learn to walk, talk, etc. at different
times; there's no set age to learn anything. Why would it be different for
the fledgling growing into a full, mature vampire? There would be vampires
who needed the guidance of a sire, etc. and those who were able to fuction
on their own. I tend to believe the fledgling will be stronger in dealing
with all their new abilities and the blood lust if they stay with their
sire, etc. How could a newly turned vampire be instantly given the super
powers and needing to deal with the overwhelming blood lust and be turned
out to exist among mortals and the temptation? I also believe the older the
vampire, the more powerful, in all aspects of their vampirism. Vampires
would most likely evolve with their experiences just as we mortals do.
I read a lot of vampire fiction, including vampire romance novels. Each
author puts their own twist on their vampire's traits. Heck, I've read some
books where the vampires can walk in sunlight. Personally, I don't care for
those vampires; somehow, for me, it takes away from the mystique of the
creature. I guess what I'm trying to say is because of the FK cannon being
inconsistent, we all can form our own opinions on this issue. Isn't the
human imagination wonderful?
Deborah
DeborahAHymon.com
on 2/14/06 11:59 AM, wirickml@v....... at wirickml@v....... wrote:
> When does one stop being a fledgling?
> I know the writers of FK were not all that consistent in what was canon and
> what was not.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:25:48 -0500
From: libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: When does one stop being a fledgling?
Kimmer wrote:
<<"fledgling" was used all the time
in the "Subspecies" vampire movies.>>
Yes, the term has been used in many vampire movies
and works. I'm refering specifically to FK. It isn't
an FK term unless I'm forgetting a use of it.
It isn't wrong to use it in fanfic, of course, it just wasn't used in the show
itself.
--Libs
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:43:28 -0500
From: Deborah Hymon <debh@e.......>
Subject: The term fledgling and other terminology?
I have to agree with Libs, I can't remember the term 'fledgling' being used
on FK. But I think we all know that it means a newly made vampire. When you
really think about it, FK rarely used ideas or terminology from the vampire
myths or legends except the basics such as allergic to sunlight, etc.
Interesting, there's been a big discussion lately on my writing groups about
vampire terminology. The debate is who started using which term first;
fledgling, sire, clans, etc./Anne Rice, White Wolf Publishing, Hollywood,
whoever. With so much interest in vampires, with books, TV, movies,
electronic games, etc., there's a blur of terms and who coined the phrase.
I've often wondered why FK didn't use more of the ancient myths in their
story lines. It sure would have made for some fascinating episodes.
There's a pending lawsuit with WW (White Wolf publications/roll playing game
started in 1991) suing Sony over the first Underworld movie.
http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?thold=-1&mode=flat&order=0&sid=10015
WW is claiming Sony stole the terminology from them. Some of the terms are
straight from folklore and ancient myths, and not WW's clever invention.
Also, one included the silver bullet for killing the werewolves. This is so
ridiculous. Have they ever seen the old 1957 black and white movie with
Michael Landon, 'I Was a Teenage Werewolf'? Hello, silver bullets!
I can't remember where I read it because I've read so much through the years
about the legends of vampires, but the concept of silver slowing down or
killing werewolves or the stake of wood through the heart for doing the same
for vampires is not a 'new idea'. There are facts in ancient legends of
these being weapons used against these paranormal creatures. Legends and
myths 'CAN NOT' be copy righted. Another claim by WW is Sony stole their
idea of vampires disappearing quickly. How many times have we seen that even
before FK, seen it in the old silent black and white films?
*** (OT: I found this cute comic that sort of puts a similar spin on the
lawsuit, about copy rights and terminology.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/09/08 ) ***
If anyone researches vampire myths throughout the world, you'll find that
almost each region or country has a different name for 'their vampire' and
each vampire has different traits. Also, there's different regional beliefs
on how to kill a vampire, and not all are a stake through the heart. A lot
of terms that are said to be started with Anne Rice and her novels are not.
She also pulled from the ancient myths. This is not to say she didn't
invent a few terms of her own.
I wish FK had gone into more of the old myths, but sadly they didn't. To sum
it up, there are terms that have been used from ancient times, with many
being renamed and reinvented to fit into modern tales. The lines blur, and
before we know it people forget the origins. I think this is true in the FK
world. I know FK fan fiction has definitely blurred FK cannon. I see the
word 'fledgling' used in a lot of FK fan fiction. I also think the popular
TV and movies about vampires have confused some people's memory about
terminology used in FK.
DeborahAHymon.com
on 2/14/06 1:25 PM, libratsie@a....... at libratsie@a....... wrote:
> Yes, the term has been used in many vampire movies and works. I'm refering
specifically to FK. It isn't an FK term unless I'm forgetting a use of it.It
isn't wrong to use it in fanfic, of course, it just wasn't used in th show
itself.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:03:53 -0500
From: Roger Armstrong <eriklebeau@g.......>
Subject: Re: The term fledgling and other terminology?
> WW is claiming Sony stole the terminology from them. Some of the terms are
> straight from folklore and ancient myths, and not WW's clever invention.
> Also, one included the silver bullet for killing the werewolves.
I know this is a touch OT to go into, but I wanted to add just a
little clarification on this. The lawsuit, in addition to identifying
a number of terms and concepts that WW claims they popularized (quite
a few of which I agree are ridiculous), also cites the similarities
between the plot of the movie and a book that was (at the time) due to
be published by White Wolf Fiction set in the universe of their
role-playing game.
Granted, the basic plot of the movie is little more than Romeo &
Juliet with a supernatural twist, but the lawsuit points out an
uncomfortable number of minor plot details that correspond exactly
between the book and the screenplay.
As I recall, the suit was settled between the parties, although I
don't remember the actual details of the resolution.
> I wish FK had gone into more of the old myths, but sadly they didn't.
Personally, I think it would have been nice to have gone into
something of the creation legends of FK vampires. That's something
that I had wanted to see in AMPH or AtA. We know that Qa'Ra was "said
to be among the first of [their] kind", but how exactly did that
happen, and who was *the* first?
Alas, questions that can only be answered by fanfic now.
Roger
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 22:50:51 +0100
From: Cousin Lucilla <cousinlucilla@f.......>
Subject: Re: When does one stop being a fledgling?
wirickml@v....... wrote:
>When does one stop being a fledgling?
>
>
I think that it depends on the individual vampire. I'd consider it a
time of training, of learning the ways of the vampire, the Code, control
of the bloodlust etc, so I'd say it would only last a relatively short
time, a few years tops. And, as Libs said, that time of teaching might
not be considered necessary at all. Vachon's creator only stayed one
night to teach him and the Inca the basics of vampire life and walked
into the sun the very next morning.
Maybe a vampire who is 100 years old is still a young one but certainly
no longer a fledgling.
But I agree with Kristen that some 'sires' might consider their progeny
'fledglings' as long as they (un)live. Just as some parents never
acknowledge that their children do actually grow up and don't need them
anymore.
>Serena must have been less than 100 years old. How soon did she ‘leave’ Nick
to go in search of her own way to become mortal again?
>Was she still considered Nick’s fledgling?
>
>
I think Serena left Nick immediately after he brought her across,
because she felt betrayed by him. She never accepted him as her
'father', so to speak, and he, feeling guilty, let her go.
And as Libs pointed out, both the terms 'fledgling' and 'sire' were not
used in FK canon.
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End of FORKNI-L Digest - 13 Feb 2006 to 14 Feb 2006 (#2006-47)
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