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FORKNI-L Digest - 29 Jan 2004 to 30 Jan 2004 (#2004-30)

January 30, 2004

There are 16 messages totalling 615 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Selfish Nick? (9)
  2. A Question? (5)
  3. FK ALUMNI- VCR Alert for February
  4. FK ALUMNI- VCR Alert for Feb - Part 2

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Date:    Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:55:28 -0800
From:    Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......>
Subject: Selfish Nick?

I am working on a story and it made me think.
Many times in the series Nick denies other people things that they
want because he doesn't like how it may affect him - like several
times with Natalie (AMPH and LK when she wants to be brought across).
 Yeah, both times were due to very deep emotional strain, but he
didn't even entertain the notion because *he* doesn't like what *he*
is.  Well, what if that is what *she* wants.
I'm sure there were other times that I can't think of right now.  The
story I am working on deals the the events in LK and as I looked
closer at them, this idea just came out.
Anyone else see this?
-Amanda

=====
"Give me your soul and your heart will take flight
Forevermore in the night, Forever MINE in the night"
http://www.darksideoftheglass.com

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:09:58 -0800
From:    Vikki Farra <bast1531@s.......>
Subject: Re: Selfish Nick?

Yeah I've seen it a few times in the series. It sort of ticked me off, since I
really HATE it when people do that to me. I'm surprised Nat didn't haul off and
smack him up side the head at LEAST once for doing that, but that's just me. (OK
so there are a FEW reasons she should have done that, but well.... ;->)

Bast
____________________________________
"Yeah, both times were due to very deep emotional strain, but he
didn't even entertain the notion because *he* doesn't like what *he*
is. Well, what if that is what *she* wants.
Anyone else see this?
-Amanda"

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:22:23 -0500
From:    Deborah Hymon <debh@e.......>
Subject: Re: Selfish Nick?

Many times in the series Nick denies other people things that they want
because he doesn't like how it may affect him - like several times with
Natalie when she wants to be brought across, but he didn't even entertain
the notion because *he* doesn't like what *he* is.
*********
I won't get into the love thing, because you all know I'm a true die hard
N&N gal, but I do want to comment on this.

I'm speaking from personal experience, and relating it to this comment.  If
I feel something is horrible, a damnation, hate it and what it represents,
then I sure the heck wouldn't want to bring this on someone I love, even a
dear friend. This is my take on why Nick wouldn't bring Nat across. I do
think if the asteroid scare had been real, in desperation, (IMHO) he would
have done anything to save her.

Also, remember we as fans have to assume a lot, because the FK writers
weren't consistent. Hey, this is the beauty of fan fiction! The writer can
create a story with their individual ideas and interpretations from the
show.

Deborah A. Hymon--aka Forever Knights Lady

http://homepage.mac.com/hymonb/MidnightPassions/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_midnight_passions/
http://homepage.mac.com/hymonb/ForeverKnight/
http://www.cafeshops.com/hymooncreations

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:55:37 -0800
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y......>
Subject: Re: Selfish Nick?

I gotta agree with Deb.  It's really not that Nick's selfish, quite the
opposite, in fact, it's that he desperatly wants the people he loves to be happy
and fulfilled, even if that means he has to sacrifice what he wants most (and
sometimes hurt them, as well) to do that.
And of course, *he* knows exactly what being happy entails, and if they'd just
*listen* to him... (heaven help me, this sounds like a description of my
grandmother!)  Which is probably why Nat _didn't_ smack him upside the head.
She knew he did what he did because he loved her, and may well have been right,
even if it hurt them both.

              -Megan

Deborah Hymon <debh@e.......> wrote:
If I feel something is horrible, a damnation, hate it and what it represents,
then I sure the heck wouldn't want to bring this on someone I love, even a
dear friend.

"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:59:16 -0500
From:    Debbie Clarke <dittany121@h.......>
Subject: Re: A Question?

OHIP quite definitely  covers   the cost of the usual childhood
vaccinations. including measles.   It pays   the cost  of  ward
accomodation,  operations,  doctors and nursing care, including  drugs.   It
pays for doctors visits including house calls and most tests.

It covers some physiotherapy but not all.

If you want  a  double room        You have to  pay the difference
Private insurance   plan usually covers double rooms.   (I expect the Police
have one, teachers certainly do..)      If you want a room by yourself you
pay.

What can I say

My mother spent  three months in the hospital and nearly 9 months in a
rehabilitation centre.  .   As I recall we got charged for  her initial
ambulence ride to the hospital      With a few exceptions everything   else
was more or less covered by OHIP.

Having said that there some exceptions

  OHIP will pay the cost of a plaster cast.  If you want a fibre glass one
you pay extra.   OHIP pays for an eye examination,  (every 2 years between
the ages of 18 and 65)  Every year if you are younger than 18 or older than
65) but not the cost of your glasses.   Cataract surgery  Ohip covers one
type of lens .

  It will pay the cost of  blood test but if you  prefer the technician to
come to your home to do  the blood work  You pay  $15.00.

OHIP covers the cost of    home care.  but  you have to qualify first.

basically YOu go  to the hospital  or to the doctor or for tests.  you
present your card.  they run it through a machine  and   ask you if you
still live at   such and such and check your telephone number and that is
that.

If you don't have a card and  people  quite often forget theirs  if it is an
emergency situation then you have to pay for the visit.  Particularly  a
hospital visit. though they have tightened up at doctor's offices.   I don't
remember what  the cost was.  However  If you can produce your card
afterwards the money  will be  refunded to you.

Nick's money might help someone jump the  queue but  in theory it isn't
supposed to.

Debbie. I hope this of some help to you If there is something specific you
want to know  email and I'll try to answer your question


>I'm working on Emotional Concert's, Chapter Nine, and I need to know if
>the
>Canadian government covers 'all' Canadian children's childhood
>vaccinations?
>
>I need some type of program that Nick, as Nick deBrabant, would provide
>funds for, that the Canadian Health Care System wouldn't.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:01:21 -0500
From:    Emily Lacey <laceye@e.......>
Subject: Re: Selfish Nick?

>I am working on a story and it made me think.
>Many times in the series Nick denies other people things that they
>want because he doesn't like how it may affect him -

Could some of it be credited to almost 800 years of being VERY aware
of how things affect him...as in survival? He's had to make sure that
his influence on the world around him, as well as the world's
influence on him, tends to keep his identity intact and safe.
I'm also wondering if some of it could be traced back to his 13th
century heritage: his responsibility as 'Lord of the Manor' back
then. Whatever anyone did, would reflect back on him as the lord of
Brabant and ultimately be his responsibility to preserve and protect
his vassals.
--
Emily Lacey
laceye@e.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:11:14 -0500
From:    Debbie Clarke <dittany121@h.......>
Subject: Re: Selfish Nick?

I wouldn't  exactly call Nick exactly selfish,   he might be a litlle  self
centred, but for someone who has spent nearly 800 years  doing pretty  much
as he pleased  it  would be a  small wonder if he wasn't.

  Natalie's  knowledge of vampires is based  primarily on Nick   who  let's
face it is rather unique when it comes to the vampires.  It is possible Nick
  understands more about   what it means to be a vampire than she does.

as for his refusing to bring Natalie across during  the  asteroid scare.
LaCroix  didn't think Nick could survive it.  and if Nick couldn't,  a
fledgling  definitely couldn't make it.

Debbie Clarke

>From: Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......>
>
>Many times in the series Nick denies other people things that they
>want because he doesn't like how it may affect him -

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:53:06 -0600
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@c.......>
Subject: Re: Selfish Nick?

> Amanda Berendt wrote:

> I am working on a story and it made me think.
> Many times in the series Nick denies other people things that they
> want because he doesn't like how it may affect him - like several

I don't think that's the case. Nick *knew* what being a vampire meant.
He knew the intense desires to kill, the power of what he, in modern
terms, saw as an addiction. He did not want the people he loved to be
subjected to that kind of descent into hell. It's as if he, as a
recovering heroin addict, tried to prevent Natalie from becoming an
addict. Natalie might have wanted to try it, to experience the rush,
but he prevented her, knowing it was in her best interests.

Just because you want something doesn't mean you should have it.

>  Yeah, both times were due to very deep emotional strain, but he
> didn't even entertain the notion because *he* doesn't like what *he*
> is.  Well, what if that is what *she* wants.

I want to torture someone, because it might be pretty neat, and
besides, wouldn't the power rush be awesome?

No responsible person who had a shred of humanity and social
conscience would allow another person to torture someone for the fun
of it. Not only is that destructive of society and of an innocent
person, it debases the torturer and, if you're of a religious bent, is
a heinous sin that could condemn that person to eternal damnation.

*That's* what I think motivates Nick. It's not selfish, it's supremely
unselfish, because by denying Natalie immortality, he loses her. If he
were selfish, he'd bring her across so that they could enjoy a
relationship and an eternity together.

IMO, and all that.

Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@c.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:21:18 -0600
From:    DLPH <DLPH@c.......>
Subject: Re: Selfish Nick?

> Could some of it be credited to almost 800 years of being VERY aware
> of how things affect him...as in survival? He's had to make sure that
> his influence on the world around him,


Nick is one of the few people who understands the
looooong term effects of one's actions
(forever means FOREVER!)

Sometimes you have to consider that
You may have to tell children they can't have any more candy
They'll be mad at you,  but it'll be one less cavity they have in the long run


800 yr old elders know best
(their dental habits might not be any better then yours)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:42:46 -0800
From:    Cheryl Hoffman <dayabaygal@y......>
Subject: FK ALUMNI- VCR Alert for February

Here's the list for February.... 4 new Nigel movies... well, I guess
one was shown in December, but I missed it... so 4 new tapes
for me.

The movie with Natsuko Ohama -- Hiroshima: Out of the Ashes,
is an excellent movie,  and the extra one: Men With Brooms is
fun.

As always, please check your local listings for exact dates & times,
I have been known to make typos (and so have the sources I've pulled
from).  This months listings come from Satellite Direct, TV-Now.com,
SciFi.com, CBS.com, and Andromedatv.com.  NEW shows are
marked with *****

*****************-
This is a fun movie... lots of FK alumni, and all those other
Canadian actors we've come to recognize.

Men With Brooms                         TMC             8, 17,28
         with Paul Gross, Leslie Nielson, Kari Matchett,
                 Polly Shannon, George Buza, Victoria Snow

*****************
NIGEL BENNETT (LaCroix)
Between Love and Honor                  USA             4
Legends of the Fall                     TBS             15
                                        TCM             1
Murder at 1600                          TNT             22
***Rush of Fear                         LifetimeM       19,20***
***Sex and the Single Mom               Lifetime        15 ***
Too Young to be a Dad                   LifetimeM       8,9
Where's the Money Noreen?               LifetimeM       5,6
***Andromeda: The Torment, The Release  Local Station   THIS WEEK 1-8th
***Code Name: Eternity - Watery Grave   SciFi           6***
LEXX                                    SciFi           6,13,20,27

GERAINT WYN DAVIES (Nick Knight)
American Psycho II -                    HBO2            7/8
                                        TMC             7/8
One of the Hollywood Ten                True            4,8,16,20,24

CATHERINE DISHER (Natalie Lambert)
Jerry and Tom                           SHO3            5,15,20,24,25,29
    (I'm not sure if she's in this or not, it was listed once)
Woman on the Run: Lawrencia
         Bembenek Story                 LifetimeM       13

JOHN KAPELOS (Schanke)
And the Sea Will Tell                   True            10,28
Auto Focus                              HBO             19,24,27
                                        HBO-S           7,25,29
The Breakfast Club                      WE              29
Class                                   FAM             7
The Craft                               TNT             1
Deep Red                                SciFi           8
Internal Affairs                        AMC             16,17
Man Trouble                             Starz           6,10,18
The Relic                               HBO2            19,29
The Shadow                              SciFi           17
                                        USA             5
Sixteen Candles                         WE              25
Tootsie                                 TCM             14
Weird Science                           Comedy          12,13


GARY FARMER (Capt Stonetree)
Blown Away                              USA             7
The Score                               TBS             10

NATSUKO OHAMA (Capt Cohen)
Hiroshima: Out of the Ashes             True            5,6,9,15,20,21,28
Speed                                   FMC             2,10,11,20,26,27

BLU MANKUMA (Capt Reese)
Bliss                                   MAX             20
The Color of Courage                    Court           21
Don't Look Behind You                   Fam             28

BEN BASS (Javier Vachon)
Bride of Chucky                         SciFi           14

LISA RYDER (Tracy)
Andromeda                               check your local listings

KRISTIN LEHMAN (Urs)
Bliss                                   MAX             20
Strange World   -10 eps                 SciFi           25
Century City -- mid-season fill-in      CBS             March 16

GREG KRAMER (Screed)
Wilder                                  USA             4

SANDI ROSS (Grace Balthazar, Nat's assistant)
Two if by Sea                           WGN             15
         (w/ Claire Rankin)




Cheryl Hoffman, NA (& I ain't changin' it), Cousin, Val,
NBN, G4, Bridging, Indecency,
"My, my.. we are in a mood tonight.." -LaCroix
dayabaygal@y......       Richland, WA
AIM/Yahoo:  DayaBayGal          ICQ:  30464256

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 29 Jan 2004 22:19:00 -0800
From:    Cheryl Hoffman <dayabaygal@y......>
Subject: FK ALUMNI- VCR Alert for Feb - Part 2

JOHN KAPELOS:

FKMel reminds me that the Angel episode
"Are You Now or Have You Ever Been"
with John Kapelos will be airing on
TNT on Wed, Feb 11, at 5pm ET




Cheryl Hoffman, NA (& I ain't changin' it), Cousin, NBN, G4, Bridging
"My, my... we are in a mood tonight.." -LaCroix
dayabaygal@y......       Richland, WA
AIM/Yahoo:  DayaBayGal          ICQ:  30464256

Cheryl Hoffman, NA (& I ain't changin' it), Cousin, Val,
NBN, G4, Bridging, Indecency,
"My, my.. we are in a mood tonight.." -LaCroix
dayabaygal@y......       Richland, WA
AIM/Yahoo:  DayaBayGal          ICQ:  30464256

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 30 Jan 2004 02:23:45 -0500
From:    "S. Babbitt" <sbabbitt@b.......>
Subject: Re: Selfish Nick?

>>I am working on a story and it made me think.
>>Many times in the series Nick denies other people things that they
>>want because he doesn't like how it may affect him -

Allow me to submit as evidence a quote from the show itself:
Nick: This isn't about me!
LaCroix: It's ALWAYS about you, Nicholas!

(grin)
--
--------------
Stephanie Babbitt (sbabbitt@b.......), Atlanta, GA
Vaquera (Because I Can), MadNatter, N&NPacker
Nobody Dies. Nobody Ever Died.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:54:14 -0400
From:    T <tfloyd@n.......>
Subject: Re: A Question?

> -----Original Message-----
> Deborah Hymon
> ....I need to know if the Canadian government covers 'all' Canadian
> children's childhood vaccinations ?

At least in New Brunswick, vaccinations are completely covered for children.

> I need some type of program that Nick, as Nick deBrabant, would provide
> funds for, that the Canadian Health Care System wouldn't.

I don't think there are any health issues that the government does not
provide at least some funding for, but private foundations often also
support hospitals and research for any issue.  For example, a child in this
region with a hearing or vision impairment who has low-income parents will
get hearing aids at cost, and likely at least partly funded by a government
Early Intervention program with the rest coming from private associations /
food banks / community groups.  If the parents can pay, they will pay cost
until the child is 18.

A philanthropist could pick a region or focus area and, for example, provide
hearing aids and caption decoders for every child who needs them who
doesn't' meet the sometimes fairly narrow requirements of the government
funded programs.  He could also fund research into treatment or prevention
of diseases/disorders, send children to camps,

Basic medical care is covered, but the associated costs may not be--for
example: travel to a children's or specialty hospital; accommodations for a
caregiver while there; lost time from work may not be covered by the
parent's employer; medications are not always covered.

--
LapLor
tfloyd@n.......
"The person sitting next to you is weirder than you can possibly imagine."

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:13:39 -0700
From:    Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......>
Subject: Re: A Question?

Health care in Canada is funded jointly by the provinces and the federal
government, and the administration of health care is left up to the provinces,
so there can be differences between what is covered in Ontario compared to other
provinces. Most of what Debbie Clarke wrote is also true of the Alberta health
care system. The main differences are that our cards are quite a bit more
primitive (basic cardboard), and I don't know of anyone having to pay before
treatment because they don't have a card (but I'm not in a good position to
know).

I don't know if OHIP covers prescription drugs received outside of a hospital
setting; in Alberta, you have to pay for prescription medications, unless you
have separate private health insurance, such as Blue Cross. (By law, private
health insurance in Canada may not cover anything that is paid for by the public
system.) There are also some treatments (drugs and therapies) in each province
that are considered "experimental" and are not covered. Sometimes the
"experimental" designation seems to have more to do with the expense of the
treatment, and treatments accepted as effective elsewhere are still called
"experimental" because the province feels they are too expensive to approve.

But if Nick wanted to help kids, he would probably follow the plan strongly
suggested by the Canadian magazine Today's Parent, and provide some kind of
supplementary income for parents who are working full time as caregivers for
their seriously ill children. Right now these parents often end up on social
assistance, which means the family's standard of living plunges right down to
the poverty level, just because they are not institutionalizing their children
but providing them high quality personal care.

Your very humble & most obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:19:04 -0700
From:    Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......>
Subject: Re: A Question?

As for vaccinations in Alberta, not only are almost all childhood vaccinations
covered (chicken pox is the only exception I know of), but so are adult booster
shots for the childhood vaccinations, such as tetanus, diphtheria, & typhoid.
Flu vaccinations are available for free to adults with significant health issues
(which are defined very broadly); healthy adults pay $15.

Your very humble & most obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:26:16 -0400
From:    T <tfloyd@n.......>
Subject: Re: A Question?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Forever Knight TV show [mailto:FORKNI-L@lists.psu.edu] On Behalf Of
> Angela Gottfred
> But if Nick wanted to help kids, ... provide some kind of
> supplementary income for parents who are working full time as caregivers
> for their seriously ill children.


Amen to that.  When I watch the hardships faced by families of the seriously
ill here in Canada where many of the costs are covered, I wonder how people
manage in the US.  Even when you've covered the treatment, there are
substantial costs to bear: the time lost from work, travel costs, childcare
costs for any other children, the need (often) for special training for
caregivers.  Many if not all of those costs are tax deductible, but if you
didn't make the money in the first place!

Yes, that would be a good use for Nick's foundations money in terms of
helping sick children in Canada.

(parent of a child born at risk of many handicaps due to brain injury, but
ending up with *only* a moderate sloping to severe bilateral hearing
impairment)
--
LapLor
tfloyd@n.......
"The person sitting next to you is weirder than you can possibly imagine."

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 29 Jan 2004 to 30 Jan 2004 (#2004-30)
**************************************************************


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