FORKNI-L

FORKNI-L Digest - 3 Jan 2004 to 4 Jan 2004 (#2004-4)

Sun, 4 Jan 2004

There are 13 messages totalling 530 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. DVD Image Quality (was Re: Christmas Vampires) (4)
  2. Fan clubs (was Re: John Kapelos)
  3. FW: DVD Image Quality (was Re: Christmas Vampires)
  4. FK DVD (5)
  5. Nick
  6. Admin: Forkni-l Rules

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Date:    Sat, 3 Jan 2004 16:19:34 -0600
From:    Roman Gheesling <moonmage@s.......>
Subject: DVD Image Quality (was Re: Christmas Vampires)

on 1/2/04 1:02 PM, mary combs at combsm@e....... wrote:

> Perhaps you missed the previous posts on list about the fact that the first
> season of FK was shot on cheaper film stock. The quality of the original
> material is the problem.
>
> Mary

While that may explain some of it, it doesn't explain all of it.  I
understand that you have to consider FKs film stock and the low-light
conditions under which a lot of scenes were shot.  (What _was_ FK's usual
film stock ?)

Anyway, as I pointed out in my previous post, the restoration job done on
the 23-year-old Shogun mini-series is illustrative of what can be done with
a film-to-digital transfer.  Color was corrected, sharpness improved, (and
sound was re-mixed for stereo and 5.1 Dolby.)

Film technology, like other technologies, improves with time.  At the time
FK was shot, film had 12 years of development over films used at the time of
Shogun. . . and yet Shogun is clearly the superior DVD release in terms of
technical excellence.

Even if Shogun was shot on the best possible film available at that time, a
mid-range film used at the time of FK's production would be about equal to
that used on Shogun.

So, unless FK was shot on the poorest film stock from some no-name overseas
company, film quality will not fully explain why the quality of the DVD
format wasn't utilized to its fullest on the FK DVD set.  In other words,
its obvious that FK wasn't restored. . . just transferred to a new format.

Working The Knight Shift,
Roman
CaddyWhacker
Camera Buff

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Date:    Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:08:16 -0600
From:    Stephen Fellows <stevef@m.......>
Subject: Fan clubs (was Re: John Kapelos)

KC asks:

>Does John Kapelos have a fan club? His website has
>nothing about a fan club on it.

He used to have one, but I don't know if it's still active.  Someone else
already suggested e-mailing the fan club president.  Also, the contact info page
of his website says that fan mail for Mr. Kapelos can be sent to
<fanmail@c.......>

>the only club links I find
>that have been updated in the last year are Geraint's,
>Nigel's and Ben's. Have the other clubs been
>disbanded?

Lisa Ryder's fan club moved to a new web address a few months ago and lots of
links are probably still pointing to one of the previous addresses.

Here are the current addresses I know of:
Geraint Wyn Davies <http://www.gwdfc.org>
Nigel Bennett <http://www.blackhatstation.com>
John Kapelos <http://www.johnkapelos.us>
Lisa Ryder <http://www.lisaryder.net>
Ben Bass <http://www.benbassfanclub.com>
Greg Kramer <http://www.screedwashere.com>

Who did I miss?

Steve F.
--

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Date:    Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:20:35 -0600
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@c.......>
Subject: Re: DVD Image Quality (was Re: Christmas Vampires)

> Roman Gheesling wrote:

> Anyway, as I pointed out in my previous post, the restoration
> job done on the 23-year-old Shogun mini-series is illustrative of what
> can be done with a film-to-digital transfer.  Color was corrected, sharpness
> improved, (and sound was re-mixed for stereo and 5.1 Dolby.)

As has been pointed out before, FK is a show that never had much of an
audience. Shogun, on the other hand, was a hugely successful
miniseries with big name actors based on an equally hugely successful
novel. Heck, it was one of the first things I ever taped off my
television on a rented VCR.

Whoever put out the Shogun DVDs was willing to spend the money and
time to improve the technical quality of the DVD. I'm pretty certain
Sony didn't spend one more nickel than was absolutely necessary to get
the FK eps onto DVD. It's simply not worth it to them---not enough
return.

Sad but most likely true.

Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@c.......

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Date:    Sat, 3 Jan 2004 22:40:40 -0500
From:    mary combs <combsm@e.......>
Subject: Re: DVD Image Quality (was Re: Christmas Vampires)

Roman wrote
> Anyway, as I pointed out in my previous post, the restoration job done on
> the 23-year-old Shogun mini-series is illustrative of what can be done with
> a film-to-digital transfer.  Color was corrected, sharpness improved, (and
> sound was re-mixed for stereo and 5.1 Dolby.)

Never in its finest hour did the Forever Knight begin to approach the
production values of Shogun, a landmark in television history that won a
raft of Emmies, Golden Globes and the Peabody. Ah yes, I remember it well.

Yes, of course, if you have the money to spend, you can use computer
artistry to eliminate flaws in original footage. You can add lovely stuff
that wasn't anywhere to be seen in the original footage (to wit, the
backgrounds in the reissued Star Wars films). We could even get Nick and
Nat to finish that kiss... <gr>

But the market for the Forever Knight Trilogy doesn't begin to justify the
expense involved in cgi cleanup. This is not a subjective statement: FK
volume one is ranked 6,810 on Amazon.com. Shogun is 266.

Also, when the studio spends money, DVD prices reflect it. Note the list
price of $79.99 for 547 minutes of Shogun and 999 minutes of Forever
Knight.

If you don't take into account the fact that that the producers of the
Shogun DVD planned on a much higher volume in sales (which would raise the
price even higher), we're looking at comparable pricing in the $140 range.
That would surely have made FK Vol 1 a candidate for Natalie's Bed and
Breakfast--DOA.

Many of us have been working to get the series in video format for almost 8
years. Having the so-called "Canadian" footage is more than some dared hope
for when we started trying to get FK on VHS.

It is ludicrous to *criticize* Sony for not treating FK as if it were a
"star in the cinema firmament" (quote from "Singing in the Rain"). The
complaining serves no purpose and cannot make a good impression on anyone
monitoring the list for fan reaction to the DVDs.

Better to put the energy into thanks, asking for extras, asking about
release dates for Vol II--

and if you belong to Netflix, asking them to put FK Vol 1 on the list !

Mary
N&npacker

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Jan 2004 23:25:58 -0500
From:    Deborah Hymon <debh@e.......>
Subject: FW: DVD Image Quality (was Re: Christmas Vampires)

>
> on 1/3/04 10:40 PM, mary combs at combsm@e....... wrote:
>
>> > Never in its finest hour did the Forever Knight begin to approach the
>> > production values of Shogun, a landmark in television history that won a
>> > raft of Emmies, Golden Globes and the Peabody. Ah yes, I remember it well.
>
> ***This is so true and Forever Knight can't be compared to Shogun, no matter
> how much we wish the quality was better than it is!  I'm just happy to have
> the episodes on DVD!
>
>  We could even get Nick and
>> > Nat to finish that kiss... <gr>
>
> ***<BS> If only! Now that would have been wonderful!  Hey, thanks to fan
> fiction, it happened!
>
> This is not a subjective statement: FK
>> > volume one is ranked 6,810 on Amazon.com. Shogun is 266.
> ***With these ratings, we're lucky to have season one. I really wished people
> would be thankful for what we have and thank Sony and request Season 2 & 3.
> PLEASE BE GRATEFUL and don't compare this to other big time releases!
>
>> > Many of us have been working to get the series in video format for almost 8
>> > years. Having the so-called "Canadian" footage is more than some dared hope
>> > for when we started trying to get FK on VHS.
>
> ***I totally agree with you, Mary.  The Canadian footage is more than we ever
> hoped for!
>> >
>> > It is ludicrous to *criticize* Sony for not treating FK as if it were a
>> > "star in the cinema firmament" (quote from "Singing in the Rain").
>
> ***If Sony is monitoring any posts or bulletin boards and sees these type of
> comments, they may never consider releasing season 2&3.  If you don't like the
> quality and don't plan to buy more seasons, please don't ruin it for those of
> us who do plan to purchase the remaining episodes. I'm sure that sells
> determines most of the decisions, but comments are definitely reviewed too.
>
> The
>> > complaining serves no purpose and cannot make a good impression on anyone
>> > monitoring the list for fan reaction to the DVDs.
>
> ***Negative comments can prevent new fans from purchasing the DVD's causing
> poor sales. I'm not criticizing any one's comments on this list, but think
> about the consequences before being too hard on Sony.
>> >
>> > Better to put the energy into thanks, asking for extras, asking about
>> > release dates for Vol II--
> ***Yes, I would love to see bloopers and interviews with the actors.
> Hopefully, this is still a possibility if wee contact Sony before Season 3 is
> released.
>
> Thanks, Mary, for pointing out all the positives.  I hope everyone will let
> Sony know we're grateful that they considered and released Forever Knight!!!!
>
> Deborah  aka Forever Knights Lady
> http://homepage.mac.com/hymonb/MidnightPassions/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_midnight_passions/
> http://homepage.mac.com/hymonb/ForeverKnight/
> http://www.cafeshops.com/hymooncreations
>
>


------ End of Forwarded Message

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Date:    Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:44:16 -0800
From:    Megan MacLean <xena_goddess_of_war_99@y......>
Subject: Re: DVD Image Quality (was Re: Christmas Vampires)

<snip>
>Having the so-called "Canadian" footage is more than
some dared hope for
<snip>


I agree whole heartedly. Mary!


Megan MacLean

~A good friend will help you move, a really good
friend will help you move a body, and a really, really
good friend will help you dispose of it.~


------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Jan 2004 00:09:08 -0600
From:    Mary Lynn <wirickml@v.......>
Subject: FK DVD


I'd just like to say the only thing I was
disappointed in was the fact there was no advertising.
No print, TV or magazine that I know of, just mostly
word of mouth. I can't find it in any stores in my city,
nor one other that I have visited. Just on-line stores.
I did have B & N offer to order it for me.
I already had it, though.

Mary Lynn

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Date:    Sun, 4 Jan 2004 01:15:16 EST
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: FK DVD

In a message dated 1/4/04 12:10:51 AM Central Standard Time,
wirickml@v....... writes:


> TV or magazine that I know of, just mostly
> word of mouth

I saw it on television more than once, though I don't remember where (and it
wasn't, I don't think, on Sci Fi which I don't watch much).

--Libs

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Date:    Sun, 4 Jan 2004 00:59:07 -0600
From:    Kristin <kris1228@e.......>
Subject: Re: FK DVD

There were, indeed, ads for the DVD set. They only ran on Sci-fi during the
marathon in October. It would have seemed wiser to run them in primetime
slots rather than during the day for fans that most likely already know
about the release - perhaps during some of Sci-fi's horror programming. Oh
well...

I noticed that the sales at amazon.com have dropped drastically as have
other places. They are not even on display at my local Best Buy anymore.
When I asked the guy about it, they said they weren't ordering in any more.
This greatly worries me about the releases for the other seasons. As I
mentioned in the past, I highly suggest those who *can* afford it to
purchase a backup set or one as a gift for a friend who couldn't get the
dvds. All Sony cares about is how much they make off FK and if it's not
enough, we will *not* get the other seasons on DVD.

Kristin
http://knightvision.4ever.cc
"When you only have eyes for the Knight..."

> TV or magazine that I know of, just mostly
> word of mouth

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Jan 2004 02:44:29 EST
From:    "Lynn L. Sowinski" <Lls761@a.......>
Subject: Re: FK DVD

Personally, I love my DVD set and feel it was worth what I paid for  it.  I
couldn't find the set at the large "record" (DVD, CD, tapes,  etc.) store at my
mall.  I didn't ask about ordering it as I already  had a copy.  I also never
saw one single ad for the set.
It is a real shame.  Very little, no matter how good it is, is  gonna' sell
without some advertising.  Unfortuately, I don't think  Sony did a whole lot to
try to make the FK DVDs successful, and I do't  understand why not.  I am
praying they follow through and offer the  last two seasons.
Lynn
"If  dogs don't go to Heaven, when I die I want to go where they  went."

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:40:54 +0100
From:    Doris <lucilla@c.......>
Subject: Nick

Ow, my head is killing me.
Why hasn't anyone invented Aspirin that works in vampires?
I don't remember much until Lacroix turned up at the Raven. With all my rage
and the strength I could muster I attacked him but he send me flying like a
rag doll. It was my own fault for drinking like a pig before. Before he
knocked me out cold, I told him to leave Nat alone but he only replied that
it had been I who started this ugly business.
Damn him! He is right, of course. I should never have taken advantage of
Natalie's offer. It is part of our curse that our bite makes humans want
more and more until we finally kill them. I don't want Nat to end up like
Amelia.  If I stay away from her she will recover and the craving will stop.
But she feels drawn to him now too!
And Lacroix knows no limits...

+Nick+

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Date:    Sun, 4 Jan 2004 15:11:19 -0500
From:    mclisa <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Admin: Forkni-l Rules

It's the first Sunday of 2004, and here is the first posting of the rules
for the new year.
--McLisa, who has been struggling mightily with telephone line problems. For
a while, I was on hold with the phone company and listening to F"ur Elise as
in "Let No Man Tear Asunder.".  I kept wondering what would happen to a
company that put LaCroix or Janette on hold. Nick would probably be patient
but I suspect they wouldn't. <g>

> Don Fasig Argent@c....... or Lisa McDavid  mclisa@m.......>.
> >
>  For tips on managing your Forever Knight subscriptions please visit
>  Don's page at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7139/fk-lists.htm
>
>  List digests are archived at:
> If you need a hand or have any questions please don't hesitate to contact
> Don Fasig Argent@c....... or Lisa McDavid  mclisa@m.......>.
> >
>  For tips on managing your Forever Knight subscriptions please visit
>  Don's page at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7139/fk-lists.htm
>
>  List digests are archived at:
> https://knightwind1228.tripod.com/forkni.htm
>
>  FORKNI-L RULES
>
>  1. No flames on list. FLAMERS MAY BE SET NOPOST. THE NOPOST MAY BE
> PERMANENT.
>
>  2. Please don't quote more than four lines of a previous post in replying.
> If you have more than one point to answer, then you may  quote the relevant
> four lines for that point also.
>
>  3. Limit sigs to 6 lines. Your sig starts with the first thing you write
> after the text. It includes all the lines under that, even blank lines. If
> you have one of those providers that insists on putting an ad after that,
> don't worry. The ad doesn't count.
>
> 4. Please don't send to the whole list when you are only talking to  the
> person who wrote the post you are answering.
>
>  5. Advertising on list is on a case by case basis. Please consult the
> listowners, Lisa McDavid, mclisa@m....... or Don Fasig,
> Argent@c....... for permission.
>
>  6. This list is for the discussion of Forever Knight and related topics.
> FK cast and behind the camera people are ok, except that we don't discuss
> private lives.  Announcments by authorized spokespersons about events in
> those lives are ok.  List members' fannish activities are ok, as are sharing
> personal events in our lives.  Non-FK vampires or vampires in general or not
> ok. PLEASE DON'T TALK ABOUT PROJECTS WHICH HAVEN'T BEEN OFFCIALLY ANNOUNCED
> OR WRITTEN ABOUT IN THE MEDIA.
>
> 7. No off-topic posts are without permission from a listowner.  This
> includes virus warnings.
>
> 8.. No role-playing on Forkni-l. This includes character names as
> pseudonyms or posing as a character.
>
> 9.  Each subscriber is limited to five posts per day on Forkni-l.
>
> McLisa (Lisa McDavid)
> "That will be trouble".
> Listowner, Forkni-l and Fkfic-l
> mclisa@m.......

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Date:    Sun, 4 Jan 2004 15:18:20 -0500
From:    Eric McCann <salems.human@c.......>
Subject: Re: FK DVD

To: Forever Knight TV show <FORKNI-L@l.......>
Subject: Re: FK DVD

At 10:09 PM 1/3/2004, you wrote:


I'd just like to say the only thing I was
disappointed in was the fact there was no advertising.


Have to throw my two cents in here...
Look at M*A*S*H, a show that's (honestly) more successful and widely recognized
than Forever Knight, had a longer run, etc.  The only place *I* (at least) see
the season DVDs/tapes advertised for them is... during M*A*S*H reruns, as well.
I honestly can't think of ONE time that it was advertised elsewhere. And that's
to a decidedly larger audience.

Oh, as far as pricing - I *was* suprised to see the FK DVD set in Wal Mart for
$59 or so...

-Eric

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End of FORKNI-L Digest - 3 Jan 2004 to 4 Jan 2004 (#2004-4)
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