FORKNI-L

FORKNI-L Digest - 9 Apr 2003 to 10 Apr 2003 (#2003-106)

Thu, 10 Apr 2003

There are 23 messages totalling 577 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Growls (2)
  2. Fate Worse than Death Question (7)
  3. Medieval French question (2)
  4. BASS (2)
  5. Nicks Hair, Re: Favorite things (2)
  6. Francesca question (2)
  7. from Father's Day on forward (was Fate Worse than Death Question) (2)
  8. help? (2)
  9. Asking permission (2)

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Date:    Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:06:05 EDT
From:    Sierra Mayberry <BlueFaeryMagick@a.......>
Subject: Re: Growls

In Dying to Know You, they overdid the growl--that was obviously a lion.  I
don't really remember another ep sounding as bad as that one, but the other
seasons, they seemed more 'natural.'  *shrugs*


=====
~Sierra (Dark Knightie, UF, FKPagan)

Signing a petition to help wildlife conservation doesn't take long and it
makes a big difference http://www.savebiogems.org

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:07:10 -0700
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question

I was thinking about it, and it strikes me as telling that, even though LaCroix
didn't seem *really* mad, and (as far as we know) only hit him that once, Nick
seemed *awfully* anxious to get out of town afterwards.  Somehow I don't think
it was just about being free to search for his 'cure'.  A pattern of escalating
violence, perhaps?  And Nick decided to get out before it got bad?

              -Megan

 Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......> wrote:Anyhoo, in the first
flashback where LC slaps Nick and holds him
against the walll, Nick kind of took it in stride. Like 'ok, I'm in
trouble, let him get it over with so I can leave'. He did talk back,
but he just let LC get his anger out.

"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."


------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:55:55 -0400
From:    Debbie Clarke <dittany121@h.......>
Subject: Re: Medieval French question

>From: Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......>

>I am wondering would anyone know if the medieval french translation
>of "knightwatch" would be different that the modern.
>The modern (had to do it as two separate words) came up to be
>  'montre de chevalier'

I  don' t  know anything about medieval  French and it has been many years
since I have taken French  but  i would question  your use of the the word
montre in this instance.  As i recall montre more often than not  means
watch as in wristwatch.   according to my French dictionary  you have   the
feminine nouns  veille as in vigil, sleeplessness, watchfulnes;.
attention as in attention; garde  as in keeping, safe keeping , care,
defence, protection,   and vigilance as in vigilance   to chose from

In short what it boils down to  is what does the word Knightwatch  mean.

debbie clarke

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:10:41 -0500
From:    DPHEIL <dpheil@A.......>
Subject: BASS

For anyone that wants to see it

BEN BASS will be on Twilight zone
tonight on UPN at 8:00

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Apr 2003 17:27:00 -0700
From:    FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@y......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question

Which ep had the metal balcony scene in it? I have a
vague memory of LC throwing Nick down onto the balcony
but can't place the ep.

Mel

=====
FK:NickNatPacker, Knight of the Cross /Highlander: Duncan Flag-Waver/Due South
fan/Tracker Fan/Angel Fan/Port Charles Fan
Spotted on bumper sticker: Bad Cop! No Donut

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:36:39 -0500
From:    eowyn3@j.......
Subject: Re: Nicks Hair, Re: Favorite things

Hi Y'all!

One of my favorite things I haven't seen mentioned (or maybe I missed
it...it's possible<shrug>) is the nightie in...Near Death wasn't it?

Terri
eowyn3@j......., eowyn@w.......
GWDFC, G-IV & V Attendee, Knighties Listowner, TKD, FK X-Stitcher,
Proud Survivor of Fk-fic  Wars 8-11, Keeper of the FK Birthday List
She can be taught!  But only in little bytes!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Apr 2003 21:13:50 -0400
From:    Debbie Clarke <dittany121@h.......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question

>From: FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@y......>

>
>True, though, he didn't look anywhere close to as
>scared as he did in TG. His look in that scene was
>like "Oh boy, I am *so* going to get it now" or
>"Please don't mangle me too badly".



Nick was right to be afraid  In TG he had stolen LaCroix's meal out from
under him.     I thought LC was surprisingly  forgiving for LaCroix .  Other
than ramming Nick into the wall he didn't really  retaliate.   It seems to
me the more frustrated Lacroix got by Nick's refusal to come to heel the
more violent   he got.   Ultimately   I expect  the  real damage was more
phychological   than physical .      Nick   saw himself  as an adult .
How humiliating  for him to  to  be  constantly  reduced to position  of  a
child and  beaten by his father.

On the other hand    from Lacroix perspective and do not think  by this  i
am by any  means  justifying  LaCroix's treatment of Nick   .    it is
possible  that  LaCroix  being  the top dog in the pack  looked at
disaplining Nick something akin to training an insolent  puppy.   the first
wack  was to get   Nick's   attention,  the next  was to make sure he didn't
   try to   bite back.

Speaking of  the power of the alpha wolf which we  weren't   years ago we
used to run our dog behind the Metro  Toronto  Zoo.  For a brief period of
time the wolf pen  was visible from where we ran our dog   One day  while we
were going by  we heard  a  fight   going on amongst the   wolves in the
pen.  Lots of barking and snarling.   Suddenly  rising up over the din
came  a single bark  from the alpha wolf.  He   had  obviously our the macho
lab.  who up to then  had been thinking of running down to investigate  the
noise   suddenly   changed his mind on the grounds I guess   discretion was
the better part of valour.     He      sat down obediently  as well.    I
see LaCroix as having  much the same impact on the vampire community.

debbie clarke

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:50:01 -0600
From:    Angela Gottfred <agottfre@t.......>
Subject: Re: Growls

> In Dying to Know You, they overdid the growl--that was obviously a lion

They always sounded like lions or something to me. Great idea, but the
sound effect needed a little more massaging. But I *love* hearing the
nighthawks in several of the episodes, and so I will forgive much.

Your very humble & most obedient servant,
Ligeia

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:06:15 -0700
From:    Amanda Berendt <debrabant_foundation@y......>
Subject: Re: Nicks Hair, Re: Favorite things

--- eowyn3@j....... wrote:
> is the nightie in...Near Death

Oh yes!  Totally forgot about that.  I have a screen capture of that
at just the right moment, with just the right light.....
ok enough.<vbg>

-Amanda

=====
"Give me your soul and your heart will take flight
Forevermore in the night, Forever MINE in the night"
http://operacellar.tripod.com/phantomslair.html

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:47:48 -0700
From:    Megan Hull <mistrydder@y......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question

>Nick saw himself as an adult. How humiliating for him to to be constantly
>reduced to position of a child and beaten by his father.
>On the other hand from Lacroix it is possible that LaCroix being the top dog in
>the pack looked at disaplining Nick something akin to training an insolent
puppy

I think that's pretty much it, on both sides of the coin.  Consider the cultures
they came from: In mideval Europe, a nobleman owed fealty to his lord and to the
church, but still had a good amount of autonamy; he could go where he pleased
and choose his own profession, etc.  His lord and the church had a lot better
things to do than worry about one wayward subject.  Yeah, they had to bow and
scrape and play political games, but we all do that.
The classical Roman 'paterfamilias' (head of the family) held a much more
intimate control over the members of their families, and family was EVERYTHING
to the Romans.  You couldn't do SQUAT without the support of you father, and the
head of the family held the power of life and death over his children,
grandchildren, etc, *up until the very day he died*.
From Nick's point of view, LaCroix was being arbitrary, authoritarian, and
cruel, and he was just trying to gain a little independence.
From LaCroix's point of view, he was excercising his rights and responsibilities
as head of his family, and Nick was being ungrateful, willfull, and rebellious.
"Every life is lived from a first-person point of view."

                 -Megan


"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a Day."

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:43:22 -0700
From:    Cheryl <doughboy2C.......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question

Father Figure or the Black Budda 1.  Lacroix tries to keep him from it and
that's why they fight.
Cheryl Pillsbury
Doughboy2c.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:44:49 -0700
From:    Cheryl <doughboy2C.......>
Subject: Re: BASS

Cool.  Thanks.  Stay safe.
Cheryl Pillsbury
Doughboy2c.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:16:47 +0200
From:    Doris=20Weiss?= <dorisweiss_2000@y......>
Subject: Francesca question

Hi everyone,

I recently re-watched my fav. ep "Francesca" and
started wondering:

Nicholas kills Francesca.
Francesca is introduced as his sister, that means
she's LC's child (another example that LC seems to be
rather 'nice' to his daughters as compared to his son
btw). I wonder why LC is not mad (to say the least)at
Nick for killing his daughter. I mean, I would be.

Are there any fics where this has been treated or has
this been discussed before?

Luc

=====
"Even eternal life is too short to wait for a table." - Uncle -

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:22:42 -0700
From:    Carla Martinek <copper@M.......>
Subject: Re: Medieval French question

Ok, with Debbie's suggestions, I would say it's

"La veille de chevalier" (knight's vigil)

--Carla
copper@m.......

--- Debbie Clarke <dittany121@h.......> wrote:
>  veille as in vigil, sleeplessness, watchfulnes;
> attention as in attention;
> garde as in keeping, safe keeping, care, defense,
> and protection, and
> vigilance as in vigilance

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:55:06 -0700
From:    Laurie of the Isles <laudon1228@y......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question

--- Doris Weiss <dorisweiss_2000@y......> wrote:

> Check Father's Day again. If I'm not mistaken LC
> actually slaps Nick pretty hard before pinning him
> to the wall.

And as has been pointed out by others before on this
list, LaCroix, to his own mind, was not being abusive.
 When he was mortal a father had life and death
authority over his children, could punish them up to
and including death if he thought the transgression
warranted, fully within the bounds of Roman law.  I
imagine Nick's rejection of his father's authority
would have been a serious transgression in LC's time.
So to LC's mind it was like Bill Cosby's old routine
of his father telling Bill and his brother Russell "I
brought you into the world, I can take you out, and
make another one that looks just like you."

The standards of Nick's mortal years cannot have been
much different.  Even by the standards of the 1920s
when it looks like this flashback occurred, a
backhanded slap and a little manhandling by a parent
to a child would probably have gone unremarked by passers-by.

=====
Laurie of the Isles
Laudon1228@y......
UF, FKPagan, NigelBennett, FKSpiked, Rainbow-Knights, FKFansHug
AIM: Laudon1965, ICQ: 173739497, MSNIM: Laudon1965, Yahoo: Laudon1228
"Isn't it about time you came out?" -- LaCroix to Nick, DK2

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:06:36 -0700
From:    Laurie of the Isles <laudon1228@y......>
Subject: Re: from Father's Day on forward (was Fate Worse than Death Question)

I had another thought after I posted.  Nick was not
simply rejecting the authority of a father figure.  By
the conventions of LC's time and Nick's as well, LC
was a kind of liege lord to Nick, especially after
Nick's kissing LC's ring.  So in rejecting LC's
authority, Nick was in effect breaking an oath of
fealty, an extremely serious and dishonorable offense
by the codes he was raised with.

=====
Laurie of the Isles
Laudon1228@y......
UF, FKPagan, NigelBennett, FKSpiked, Rainbow-Knights, FKFansHug
AIM: Laudon1965, ICQ: 173739497, MSNIM: Laudon1965, Yahoo: Laudon1228
"Isn't it about time you came out?" -- LaCroix to Nick, DK2

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:36:05 +0000
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@A.......>
Subject: Re: Fate Worse than Death Question

Laurie of the Isles wrote:

> imagine Nick's rejection of his father's authority
> would have been a serious transgression in LC's time.

It would have been very serious. And patricide was considered the worst crime
of all. The punishment for killing your father was to be put in a sack with a
wild animal, and thrown in the Tiber to be eaten alive/savaged/drowned.

Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:43:42 +0000
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@A.......>
Subject: Re: from Father's Day on forward (was Fate Worse than Death Question)

Laurie of the Isles wrote:

> the conventions of LC's time and Nick's as well, LC
> was a kind of liege lord to Nick, especially after
> Nick's kissing LC's ring.  So in rejecting LC's
> authority, Nick was in effect breaking an oath of fealty,

Absolutely! And yet I found the way that Nick swore his fealty very telling. LC
seemed happy with NIck's apparent submission to his authority, but the look on
Nick's face and the intonation of his "I will repay you," meant to me that that
repayment would not necessarily be in the coin of devotion and obedience.

And as we see, Nick repaid LC by rebellion and eventual attempted patricide. It
makes you wonder what kept them persisting in this doomed relationship <eUFg>

Nancy Kaminski
--
nancykam@a.......
www.nancykam.com

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:19:21 -0700
From:    Viv <viv11374@y......>
Subject: help?

I've just spent the last five minutes trying to get to Jarvinia's
Lair and being told that it 'cannot be found'. Can anyone see if
they can connect? Is she still at gryffonslair.com, or did she
move and that's why my bookmark doesn't work?

=====
Viv

Don't annoy the crazy person

Life's a witch and then you fly

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:24:47 EDT
From:    Michele Canterbury <Mobody@a.......>
Subject: Re: help?

In a message dated 4/10/03 12:20:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
viv11374@y...... writes:

> I've just spent the last five minutes trying to get to Jarvinia's
> Lair and being told that it 'cannot be found'. Can anyone see if
> they can connect?

MY BOOKMARK won't connect either.

Michele

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:43:52 +0200
From:    Doris Weiss <dorisweiss_2000@y......>
Subject: Asking permission

Hi,
I'm currently working on a fanfic that is set after LK
and I'd like to ask the V4S people if it's OK to
borrow Adam, Thomas and Kelly for a little spin?

Luc

=====
"Even eternal life is too short to wait for a table." - Uncle -


------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:00:33 -0400
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Asking permission

In a message dated 4/10/2003 11:43:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dorisweiss_2000@y...... writes:

> I'm currently working on a fanfic that is set after LK
> and I'd like to ask the V4S people if it's OK to
> borrow Adam, Thomas and Kelly for a little spin?
FOr everyone's information, the V4S seasons and characters are considered "fair
game" for fan fic. You don't need to get permission to use characters. In fact,
I created Reese's daughter and would be thrilled to see her pop up in fan fic
(I've written a couple of stories with her myself)

Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:24:35 -0700
From:    litbeing <litbeing@y......>
Subject: Re: Francesca question

 Greetings,
When LC referred to Francesca as Nick's "sister" perhaps he was using the term
in a "we-are-all-family" because we are vampries way.
Also someone was interested in plants.  Has anyone seen the Dracula Orchid --
its flower resembles a bat in flight.
Fangs all around,
barbara


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End of FORKNI-L Digest - 9 Apr 2003 to 10 Apr 2003 (#2003-106)
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