FORKNI-L Digest - 7 May 2002 to 8 May 2002 (#2002-138)
Wed, 8 May 2002
There are 9 messages totalling 292 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Nick's old age? (2)
2. Stories gone astray (3)
3. Today's Birthday: May 8
4. Nick's old age (3)
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 22:06:27 -0400
From: Emily Lacey <laceye@a.......>
Subject: Nick's old age?
I had a thought while in traffic today about which I'd appreciate one
of the historians on the list to comment.
It occurred to me that Nick was born in the late 1100s. By the time
the year 1228 rolled around he was in his mid-thirties...which in
those days was elderly. Life expectancy wasn't much more than late
40s, I think.
So, after the disillusionment of the Crusades, he was looking at a
life that was basically all downhill and he couldn't expect to live
too many more years.
To me, that would definitely change his outlook on life, death and
unlife. Maybe Janette was the equivalent of having his cake and
eating it too.
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 21:23:51 -0500
From: Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@a.......>
Subject: Re: Nick's old age?
> Emily Lacey wrote:
> It occurred to me that Nick was born in the late 1100s. By the time
> the year 1228 rolled around he was in his mid-thirties...which in
> those days was elderly. Life expectancy wasn't much more than late
> 40s, I think.
On the average, that was true. However, that average included serfs as well as
nobility, and doesn't tell the real story. Plenty of people lived into their
70s, 80s, and even 90s in Nick's mortal time. They tended to be of the noble
class, since those people were better fed, clothed, and housed, and weren't
required to perform backbreaking physical labor like the peasant class was. If a
person survived the first five years of life, and wasn't subject ot starvation
and exposure, he was pretty healthy and stood a good chance of having a fairly
What was a bit unusual, I think, was that Nick was not married at the age of
about 35. He should have been well on the way to starting a family by then.
(Just think, if he had been married in his early twenties, his whole dilemma
might never have happened...never fooled around with Gwynneth...never sent off
on Crusade...never had that bad night in Paris in 1228...he could have died of
old age with twenty grandchildren if he had played his cards right!)
> So, after the disillusionment of the Crusades, he was looking at a
> life that was basically all downhill and he couldn't expect to live
> too many more years.
Not really. He could realistically expect to live into his 60s, and perhaps
even longer, barring accident, war, and epidemic, which admittedly were not
infrequent occurrences. But he had a decent chance.
> To me, that would definitely change his outlook on life, death and
> unlife. Maybe Janette was the equivalent of having his cake and
> eating it too.
I think that death was a real part of life in those days (and was up until the
invention of antibiotics and vaccinations, in the twentieth century). Now we
push death into hospitals and out of our daily lives, but then extended families
lived, and died, together, without specialists to shield us from it.
Nick had seen death, and plenty of it, not only in the Crusades but in his
normal life at home. I don't think it would unduly affect his outlook on life.
I think what affected him more was disillusionment with his betters (such as
Lord Delabarre) and religious leaders (for instigating the Crusades in the first
place, which turned out to be nothing like what was promised). He was so
idealistic when young (see QoH) and all his idealism was shattered.
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 01:01:04 -0500
From: Janet Dornhoff <dornhoff@p.......>
Subject: Stories gone astray
Delurking long enough to join in the quest for lost stories....
I have done three one-scene Highlander/Forever Knight crossovers. Two
of them, "A Chance Encounter" and "A Quickie" are on my discs and in the
archive. However, there was a third one which I am pretty sure got
posted at some point, which I cannot find anywhere. It might have been
under the title "Unexpected Results" or it might have been untitled.
It's more a part of a scene than a complete scene. Nick has just gotten
staked by a guy with a tattoo on his wrist, and as Natalie cradles him
in her arms, she realizes he hasn't gone poof and pulls the stake out.
And he starts healing, which she kinda expected, and his heart starts
beating, which she definitely didn't. He wakes up in time for Duncan to
show up in the doorway...."I'm Duncan MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod, and I
think we need to talk."
This was long long ago, maybe even before FKFIC-L split off from
FORKNI-L, but if any other veterans are out there, I'd really appreciate
it if you could check for me.
The Forever Vet -- NatPack, despite the name
She Who Walks On Rice Paper
Queen of Improv Cliffhangers
I-maniac and Keeper of Claire's Critters
Lurker, Watcher, X-Phile, and so much more....
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 06:08:12 -0500
Subject: Today's Birthday: May 8
Today is the birthday of: Susan Ellen Field SField8067@a.......
Anita K. Blake AKBlake@l.......
You can send birthday greetings to Susan and Anita at the above e-mail
addresses. Please NOT to the list!
People who share this birthday include:
Sir David Attenborough, TV Producer, TV Host, Scientist
Peter Bradford Benchley, Novelist, Journalist, Jaws, The Deep
Angel Jr. Cordero, Jockey
Don Rickles, TV/Movie Actor, Comedian
Harry S Truman, President/V.Prez
Significant events on this date:
1794, the U.S. Post Office was established
1886, Coca Cola was introduced by pharmacist Dr. John Styth Pemberton
who had been working on a new patent medicine, a headache and
hangover remedy. At first, he used straight water, but the drugstore
clerk used carbonated water, and that was the beginning of Coke as we
know it today.
1980, the World Health Organization announces the worldwide
eradication of smallpox
I hope you have a VERY Happy Birthday, Susan and Anita!
If you would like to be added to the birthday announcements, please send
your name, birthdate (no year needed), and e-mail address to me PRIVATELY
at eowyn3@j....... and I'll be glad to add you.
GWDFC, G-IV & V Attendee, Knighties Listowner, TKD, FK X-Stitcher,
Proud Survivor of Fk-fic Wars 8-11, Keeper of the FK Birthday List
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:42:23 -0700
From: Pat Witham <catspaw@m.......>
Subject: Re: Stories gone astray
I have your story Unexpected Results, Janet, if you don't
get it from anyone else. It's saved in my hard drive as a
text file without hard returns. Is that OK?
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 09:49:05 -0700
From: Victor Roscetti <dragonslair_08060@y.......>
Subject: Re: Stories gone astray
Just a quick mention, we did an audio parody called
"Fangs for the Memories" in which Nick and Nat require
the assistance of not only Duncan McLeod (an antique
dealer friend of Nick's) from "Highlander", but Nat
contacts and old college friend who happpens to now
work for the FBI, Dana Scully (who brings her partner
Fox Mulder). X-Files and Highlander with Forever
Knight in one story! How about that!
It's a story of an ancient prophecy that Nick and
LaCroix happened to read back in the 1800's while
treking through the Valley of the "Queens" in Egypt,
the prophecy comes to pass bringing the god Osiris and
his alien babies (who just happen to have fangs and
scotch-plaid diapers) to Earth to "re-claim" it.
LaCroix, Tracy and Duncan are called aboard the ship
as representatives of all "three" intelligent species
from the earth.
It's VERY funny and VERY ADULT.
Dragon's Lair Studios has new recordings on CD and Cassette! Visit at
http://www.dragonsroar.com/index.htm for updates and product info. We
specialize in Forever Knight Dramas and Parodies, also Star Trek - all profits
go to Charity! Dragon's Lair Studios supports Children's Hospital. We now accept
credit card payments through PayPal!
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 14:34:01 -0400
From: Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Re: Nick's old age
But we don't know how old he was when he was brought across. In the first
season, he looked to me like he could have been as young as maybe 28, which
would make him born in 1200. Yes, as the show went on he got to look Ger's real
age, but that can be cheesed nicely by assuming that Nat's treatments were
having some effect.
If we imagine that Nick was not the older son, his being unmarried isn't
unusual. We don't know that he didn't have an older brother at the time he went
on the diplomatic mission to Wales where he ended up being sent to the crusades.
In fact, if he had been the elder son, it would be strange for him to be in
someone else's household when his family was clearly wealthy. That castle and
its furnishings were not those of your average knight. Further, the fact that
he was going by "de Brabant" instead of "de [name of family estate]" or "son of
[father's name" suggests that he was related to the Dukes of Brabant. That
really makes it unlikely that he'd have been in a lesser lord's household if he
were the oldest son and therefore a senior member of the ducal family.
Younger sons usually couldn't afford to marry unless they got really lucky when
it came to an eligible heiress. The guardians/overlords of eligible heiresses
usually were not interested in having them throw themselves away on younger
As for Nick's life expectancy, even if he was ca. 35 in 1228, it was quite
possible for a man of his class to live into his sixties if he didn't get killed
in battle. People often died so much younger than we do in the 13th c. not
because they were inherently weaker but because medical help wasn't available
for things that are now easily treated.
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:06:12 -0400
From: Joseph LaCour <joelacour@c.......>
Subject: Re: Nick's old age
I think the way it went way back then was:
Son #1 - got the whole shebang
Son #2 - church
Son #3 - scraps -- I have to read Keeper of the King tonight to be sure.
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 12:17:03 -0700
From: Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
Subject: Re: Nick's old age
--- Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......> wrote:
> If we imagine that Nick was not the older son, his
> being unmarried isn't unusual.
I always thought that too. I read somewhere that in those
days, the eldest son always held responsibility and
ownership over the family and the estate while all the
successive sons where sent to train in the art of war, or
religion or sometimes even science (astrology for eg.) So
if you were a second or a third son you might end up not
to marry at all if you became a priest or a soldier, and
all the money you got was what you'd made out of your own
Countess -- Twilight Knightie,IB,DT,UF,Cotk
"Trudging through enternity, hauling my homemade horrors, do you think THAT was
my dream when I was young and evil?"
-Mommy Fortuna, The last Unicorn
End of FORKNI-L Digest - 7 May 2002 to 8 May 2002 (#2002-138)
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