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FORKNI-L Digest - 17 Mar 2002 to 18 Mar 2002 (#2002-81)

Mon, 18 Mar 2002

There are 19 messages totalling 538 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. watching Fk thoughts (3)
  2. commercials
  3. FKFanFic2 Update Planned and Help!
  4. Nick and religious items (7)
  5. Ger in "Trudeau"
  6. LC in Cleveland? (4)
  7. FKFanFic2 test page uploaded
  8. nick and religious items

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Date:    Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:03:58 -0800
From:    Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
Subject: Re: watching Fk thoughts

--- Jeannie Ecklund <Gersknightlady@c.......> wrote:
> Who do you think brought Elise (Alyse?) across in Dark
> Knight?
>
I think this was one of those accidental crossings that
also explain the creation of Jack the Ripper in "Bad
Blood." LaCroix, obviously, didn't want to bring him
across either. Only Jackís blood was so tinted that he
couldnít finish him off, so the dude came across because
there was still life in him when LC left. I read once (on
the list or a website, Iím not sure) that that's enough
for a victim to come across. The Ďdrinking your masterís
bloodí part is just to create the link and to claim the
new member of the family. Alexandra, for example, was
drained by Nick (obviously not completely) and fed on
LaCroix's blood, so she became LaCroix's fledgling. As
for Alyce, she probably became another mad vampire and
without a master to teach her, she didnít know any of the
'do's and 'don't's of a vampiric existence and probably
died at the next sunrise. As to why Nick didn't sense her
presence at the museum, you can find the answer to that
with this theory too: She never fed on LaCroix, never had
a link created, so Nick couldnít sense her that strongly.


=====
Countess -- Twilight Knightie,IB,DT,UF,Cotk

"Trudging through enternity, hauling my homemade horrors, do you think THAT was
my dream when I was young and evil?"

                           -Mommy Fortuna, The last Unicorn

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:34:51 -0800
From:    "Amy R." <akr@l.......>
Subject: commercials

(I haven't seen this yet; my apologies if I missed it.)

Could someone who has the SciFi Channel please let the list know when/if
commercials begin running for FK, and how they look?  I assume they'll just
show the old ones again, but . . . .


Amy R.
akr@l.......
FK Site: http://users.LMI.net/~akr/fk/

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:27:45 EST
From:    Jeannie Ecklund <Gersknightlady@c.......>
Subject: Re: watching Fk thoughts

> there was still life in him when LC left. I read once (on the list or a
> website, I'm not sure) that that's enough for a victim to come across. The
> drinking of your masters blood part is just to create the link and to claim
> the new member of the family.

Good thought.  Very interesting :)=  I always wondered how they might explain
that Alyce was not brought across by feeding from either Nick or LC.  This
works for me.

Jeannie

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:21:06 -0500
From:    "Anita K. Blake" <AKBlake@l.......>
Subject: FKFanFic2 Update Planned and Help!

Update in the works, but having a problem. I got a virus (cured now) and had to
delete a few of my email hold files- mainly my FK update file!

If anyone has any new fic that I can put up on the site, send it to me as an
email attachment with your name, addy, *summary*, and any warnings that apply.

If you had already sent me something, please send it again if it doesn't appear
at the main site (the crosswinds one) by now- I've had to delete it then and
need a new copy sent.

I'm also working on a new Java code for the fic pages- it has a window in the
top where you can pick the background and font colors to make those 12 hour
reading marathons easier on your eyes ;) Negative comments welcomed since it's
still in the consideration stage, and offers of help with the pasting of the
code in every .txt file definitely welcomed!!

Thanks! (and now I know what I'll be doing with my spring break!)


Anita
AKBlake@l.......  ~  http://x-menfanfic.50megs.com  ~
http://www.crosswinds.net/~uhjfc  ~  http://www.crosswinds.net/~fkfanfic2

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:45:18 -0500
From:    Brenda Bell <webwarren@e.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and religious items

This is going to be blasted difficult to break into four-line-or-less
quotes to reply, but I'll do my darndest...

At 11:35 AM 3/17/2002 -0800, Amy R. wrote:

>As I recall, [the] depiction [of Nick not shying from a mezzuzah] sparked
>periodic discussion of a distinction between the canonical FK impact of
>  _sacred_ objects and that of _ritual_ objects...

Would you agree that a "sacred" object has inherent religious value even
without being used in ritual, a "ritual" object gains religious value
through its use, and a sacred object can also be a ritual object?

>[the script] called for there to be a number of items at the house that
>made Nick uncomfortable... and that no one object [was] the trigger --
>merely the cumulative discomfort of ritual objects, rather than
>the immediate repulsion of a sacred object.

Sounds like a household in which mezzuzot are placed by tradition, but are
not *used* by the residents (i.e., they do not touch the mezzuzah and kiss
their fingers in the process of passing through the portal it protects)...

>      Perhaps, by "form of sacredness" and "unique measure of respect," the
>cow falls into the category of "ritual object" rather than that of "sacred
>object," thus largely freeing Nick in regards to bovines?

Umm. I think you got your words confused here? The cow, being sacred but
not necessarily used in ritual (though I think I recall something about a
holiday in which cows are ridden through the streets?), would not affect
Nick as much as, say, the colored rice thrown at a Hindu wedding, or the
Hindu priest's prayer shawl (or whatever it's called).

>      On the other hand, perhaps a living cow would affect Nick, as the
>sacred cow is not killed?  (We've never seen Nick with a living cow, have
>we?  In the barn in "Dying to Know You," he grooms a horse.)

Or, he might be affected only by Brahmin cows, not by Herefords or Jerseys
or Holsteins or Angus...

>      Or perhaps some of the repulsion of a sacred object stays with the
>cow blood, and Nick is flagellating himself through his choice of
>sustenance. <g>

Now there's an image for a certain breed of Catholic! (And suddenly, I
can't remember the name for the genre of self-torture devices that some
people with vocations used to wear...)


Brenda F. Bell   webwarren@e.......   /nick TMana     IM: n2kye
Arctophile, computer addict, TREKker, stealth photographer...
         UA, PoCBS, FKPagan; Neon-Green GlowWorm
HugMistress of the Ger Bear Project http://members.Tripod.com/~TMana/
Gerthering 3 Photos:  http://members.Tripod.com/~TMana/gertherng/
Visit the Fiendish Glow at http://home.earthlink.net/~webwarren/glow/

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:34:21 -0800
From:    "David J. Duncan" <dante0220@y.......>
Subject: Re: watching Fk thoughts

Hi Everyone:

Hmmm...interesting theories all around on Alyce.  But,
there are certain things that I think would be instinctual
to vampires (even fledglings) such as staying out of the
sun.  Also, as an anthropologist, I'm sure that she knew
something of the vampire's lifestyle and some dos and
don'ts. (For instance, I doubt she would've picked up a
cross to see what it would have done to her.  Also, she
figured out what Nick was quite quickly.) My theory is that
when she took off...she was quite distraught, but still
would have known enough to get out of the sun.  Maybe after
a couple of nights, she either "moved on" or if she
died--it would have been at the hands of an Enforcer.  (As
those folks who follow my storyline know, I think it was
the former.)

I know that the immortal (Janette) and mortal (Nat) forces
were set, but I never thought Alyce got a fair shot in the
series.  (And if her effect on the real series is anything
like what I've seen, that would have really made things
interesting!)

Next???

Thanks

David

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:31:11 EST
From:    MadiHolmes@a.......
Subject: Re: Nick and religious items

In a message dated 03/17/02 9:47:58 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
webwarren@e....... writes:

<<
 Now there's an image for a certain breed of Catholic! (And suddenly, I
 can't remember the name for the genre of self-torture devices that some
 people with vocations used to wear...)
 >>

Flagellation. Nick would definitely have met several types of these people
along the way.

MadiHolmes

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 04:05:37 EST
From:    Rhynnah Bayne <BaybeBansheesMom@a.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and religious items

In a message dated 3/17/2002 11:47:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
webwarren@e....... writes:


> Now there's an image for a certain breed of Catholic! (And suddenly, I
> can't remember the name for the genre of self-torture devices that some
> people with vocations used to wear...)
>

You mean hair shirts?

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 05:47:31 -0500
From:    Brenda Bell <webwarren@e.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and religious items

At 04:05 AM 3/18/2002 -0500, Rhynnah Bayne asked:

>You mean hair shirts?

They may be considered part of that, but I had more in mind those metal
thorns that are worn to poke into the thigh (or other anatomical part)
constantly, the iron chains about the waist, etc. Also, there are special
sorts of whips that some of these folk have that they whip (flagellate)
themselves with on a regular basis...


Brenda F. Bell   webwarren@e.......   /nick TMana     IM: n2kye
Arctophile, computer addict, TREKker, stealth photographer...
         UA, PoCBS, FKPagan; Neon-Green GlowWorm
HugMistress of the Ger Bear Project http://members.Tripod.com/~TMana/
Gerthering 3 Photos:  http://members.Tripod.com/~TMana/gertherng/
Visit the Fiendish Glow at http://home.earthlink.net/~webwarren/glow/

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 05:21:31 -0600
From:    CLone Star Software <cstar@a.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and religious items

At 11:45 PM 3/17/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Now there's an image for a certain breed of Catholic! (And suddenly, I
>can't remember the name for the genre of self-torture devices that some
>people with vocations used to wear...)
>

In some Catholic religious orders they are referred to as 'disciplines'.

Marci C
cstar@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:04:37 -0500
From:    Quinn <quinn@g.......>
Subject: Re: Ger in "Trudeau"

On May 15, Marg posted:

>Today's Toronto Star has an article on the upcoming miniseries about the
>life of Pierre Elliott Trudeau, former Prime Minister of Canada. There's
>no mention of Ger in the article, but the newspaper has a picture of Ger
>posing as Ontario Premier Bill Davis, along with a picture of the man
>himself.

We've added screen caps of Ger in Trudeau to our web site
(www.gwdfc.org). Click on the Trudeau link in the left frame.

Enjoy!

--
Quinn
GWDFC officer              quinn@g.......
Read GWD's poem on the events of 09/11 on the
Official GWD Fan Club site at http://www.gwdfc.org/

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:52:36 -0500
From:    Portia Eins <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and religious items

Are you referencing "hair shirts?"  Nick certainly often wears a metaphorical
one.

Portia, who lost this thread somewhere

Forever Knight TV show <FORKNI-L@l.......> wrote:
<<
Now there's an image for a certain breed of Catholic! (And suddenly, I  can't
remember the name for the genre of self-torture devices that some people with
vocations used to wear...)
>>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:44:37 -0500
From:    Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
Subject: Re: LC in Cleveland?

> If Janette owned a car, what would it be?
        A Ferrari.
        And I don't have the faintest rational clue why.
        I don't much care for foreign cars, but I can definitely see
Janette in a vintage Ferrari with a V12, throttle-butterflies back and her
hair streaming in the slipstream as the car screams up through the
gears.
        I think Janette wouldn't object to musing her hair so long as it
was enough fun.

                Tim Tim Phillips
 timp@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:51:13 -0800
From:    Kelly C Smith <tigrlady2u@j.......>
Subject: Re: LC in Cleveland?

What country are Ferrari's made in?  'Cause if it's France, I'm thinking
that would definitely be the car for Janette!

Shana
wldthngwthfngs@h.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:58:27 -0500
From:    Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
Subject: Re: LC in Cleveland?

> What country are Ferrari's made in?  'Cause if it's France, I'm thinking
> that would definitely be the car for Janette!
        Ferrari's are Italian.

                Tim Tim Phillips
 timp@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:57:48 -0500
From:    "Anita K. Blake" <AKBlake@l.......>
Subject: FKFanFic2 test page uploaded

Ok, so I got a few questions about how the page and text can change, so I
uploaded my own fic with the coding in it:

http://www.crosswinds.net/~fkfanfic2/angel.htm

You can get to it only by this link, there's no hard link on the site. Well?

Anita

AKBlake@l.......  ~  http://x-menfanfic.50megs.com  ~
http://www.crosswinds.net/~uhjfc  ~  http://www.crosswinds.net/~fkfanfic2

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:42:13 -0500
From:    Portia Eins <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: LC in Cleveland?

I don't think Janette would bother to own a car.  If she wanted to go somewhere,
she would have a driver.  BUT, if she did want to drive, she would just pick one
of the Raven regulars with a classy car and say, "You. Keys."

Portia "g"

Forever Knight TV show <FORKNI-L@l.......> wrote:
> > If Janette owned a car, what would it be?

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:06:20 -0800
From:    Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
Subject: Re: Nick and religious items

--- Portia Eins <portia1@m.......> wrote:
> Are you referencing "hair shirts?"  Nick certainly
> often wears a metaphorical one.
>
But aren't vampires supposed to have sensitive skins? I'm
not quite sure what a "hair shirt" is, but I can guess it
mustn't be gentle to your skin.

Sunny--Who lost the thread way before Portia did


=====
Countess -- Twilight Knightie,IB,DT,UF,Cotk

"Trudging through enternity, hauling my homemade horrors, do you think THAT was
my dream when I was young and evil?"

                           -Mommy Fortuna, The last Unicorn

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:44:17 -0800
From:    Moe <moemcal@m.......>
Subject: Re: nick and religious items

One of the things that really disrupts the vampires shy away at holy
objects and symbols canon in FK is one scene where Nick is on the floor
holding up and studying a Tarot card. On the BACK of that tarot card is
an upright circled pentagram-- a traditional symbol of Wicca ( a
religion). Meanwhle both he and LaCroix are repulsed by two boards
crossed to form a crucufix-- defunitely symbolic using normal materials.
Not to mention the Black Buddha. IOW it is not consistent with what the
followers consider sacred or symbolic. If the canon was correct in that
vampires are harmed by religious symbols such as a cross, then Nick
would have been burned by the Tarot card. And if it was ritual objects
they are adverse to the jade goblets in Dark Knight were ritual objects.

I think one way of explaining the apparent contradictions in this canon
on sacred symbols and objects resides in what the vampire BELIEVES to be
sacred. This, however, does not explain Nick's reaction to the two
Native American knives. unless in his travels out West he saw similar
knives and associated them with religious ceremonies. Perhaps vampires
in the FK world have a more direct mind-body reaction. Thus the flying
and super speed and such. If you have been taught through the centuries
that you are a creature of darkness, that anything sacred will burn you
even if you look at it, then you will by suggestion believe that to be
true and anything of the "light" ( sacred symbols, etc.) are to be
avioded as painful.

Thus mundane forms such as a window pane whose bars form a cross, or
anything that is not obviously a religions-based symbol, maybe these
vampires do not see as harmful to them.

Another possibility is the " charging" of an object through a ritual or
belief of the owner has an effect upon a vampire. This would explain
away the jade cups and the Black Buddha because both were used in things
not of the "light" ( pardon the Zorastrianish reference) One of the
problems with this is the dark-evil, light-good aspect we learn from
Christianity, which in turn got it from Zorastrianism.

When Nick has his sun motifs in his home, it is a safer symbol,
representing what he wishes and it doesn't affect him like the solar
motif on Divia's tomb kept her at bay. When the woman placed her cross
on his hand while he was in an up mood, it did not burn him.

Yeah I know, pretzel rationalization to explain the inconsistencies.

In a sentence , their averson is all in their heads.

Maureen
FoD, Nat-Packer, Dark Knightie and PROUD GWDFC member!
" A vampire cop? REALLY?"

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 17 Mar 2002 to 18 Mar 2002 (#2002-81)
**************************************************************


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